Daily Howler: Okay, Red State wimps. Name the Dems who hurt your feelings.

[BurtWorm]

http://www.dailyhowler.com/

DRY YOUR EYES AND NAMES SOME NAMES: Eric Alterman got some fascinating e-mails in the wake of Tuesday’s election. This one, from a North Carolina reader, especially caught our eye:



E-MAIL TO ALTERMAN (11/4/04): I read your articles with a lot of interest, and appreciate the insight you give me. So let me try to give you some.
On many social issues I agreed with Kerry more than Bush. Certainly on the war in Iraq I agree with Kerry that it is a train wreck and we need a entirely new direction.

So why did I vote for Bush? I am a born-again Christian, my faith is critically important to me. As long as the Democratic Party, and/or those people who purport to speak for it, belittle my beliefs, dismissing them out of hand, and address me publicly as intellectually challenged for holding to the faith of my fathers, you will never get my vote. How can I trust your party to lead me when you so obviously (and vociferously) denigrate those values I hold most dear?

You may not agree with us. That's OK, this is America, pluralism is a wonderfully legacy we all share. But if you do not respect us you will find it very hard to ever have the opportunity to lead us.



Why did this reader vote for Bush? He says the Democratic Party has “belittled his beliefs, dismissing them out of hand,” and has “addressed him publicly as intellectually challenged for holding to the faith of my fathers.” Oops, sorry—one clarification. The readers says the Democratic Party and/or those people who purport to speak for it has engaged in this behavior.
Let’s ignore that expansive escape clause and think of the Dem Party proper. We think it’s time for readers like this to name the names of actual Dems who have actually belittled them in this manner. Who exactly “addressed him publicly as intellectually challenged for holding to the faith of his fathers?” Was it Southern Baptist Bill Clinton, from Hot Springs, Arkansas? Was it Southern Baptist Al Gore, from Carthage, Tennessee? Was it Jimmy Carter? Was it Joe Lieberman? Was it John Edwards, from the reader’s own state? Or was it French-speaking John Kerry himself, the haughty man who dares to wind-surf? If so, when did this insult occur? When exactly has any Dem leader ever behaved in the manner described? When exactly did the Dem Party belittle the reader’s religious beliefs and “address him publicly as intellectually challenged?” When exactly did this occur? Or did it really occur in a dream? Or perhaps in a rant on talk radio?

[Bluebear]

1. Really a very good piece

It occured in Karl Rove's divisive campaign.

[K-W]

2. John Kerry wants to ban the bible!!!!!!!!

These people are bombarded with conservative propaganda. Everytime anyone even remotely liberal says anything even remotely bad about religion, correct or not, the propaganda machine makes sure it gets around plenty.

It is the phony culture war perpetuated by conservatives to keep people voting against thier interests. Everything is the liberals' fault.

[mzmolly]

7. TAKE ... BACK ... THE ... MEDIA!

That's what it comes down too. The Faux news generation is deciding the direction of our country.

[rodeodance]

17. flyers were spread around before the election saying that kerry

wanted to ban the bible

[RubyDuby in GA]

3. I'm sure he can't name names, but

I'd be happy to drive up to NC to do it to his face, because obviously he's too stupid to realize that no one has. I will not abide anyone making fun of the mentally handicapped, but this guy is just stupid and there's a difference, so it's perfectly ok to mock and/or belittle him.

[nadinbrzezinski]

4. Ah Karl Rove is so damn good

[nadinbrzezinski]

5. Ah Karl Rove is so damn good

[WindRavenX]

6. oh for god's sake

The Democratic Party is NOT belittling people of faith- we just don't want religion to mix with government. If they consider that belittling, too fucking bad.

[ArkDem]

8. He must have started a religious thread on DU.

[YIMA]

9. Outside sources

"Or perhaps in a rant on talk radio?"

Whether we realize it or not, people are watching what we say and do. If someone who's preceived as being on the left side of the aisle says something that "belittle my beliefs" or "address me publicly as intellectually challenged for holding to the faith of my fathers", then I can see where that would be a turn-off. I've read posts here where people say red state people are stupid or that only stupid people believe in a "man in the sky". What do we expect? This guy reacted the way most humans would react, that is, "Why should I listen to you if you're going to make fun of me?" I think it's a real problem.

[BurtWorm]

10. Well, some things about the Bush-loving red staters

are worthy of being mocked. Like their demonstrable ignorance and their gullibility around everything Bush shoved down their gullets about Iraq.

[YIMA]

12. And if you mock people....

.... for whatever reason, expect them to turn you off? Is that what we want?

[BurtWorm]

13. Only mock-worthy people should be offended.

;)

[YIMA]

21. Maybe they aren't offended at all

Maybe they just figure that if someone is mocking them they aren't worth listening to in the first place. More often than not, it's a reflection on the person mocking than the one being mocked.

Arrogance and an attitude of superiority is not a sign of a mature person. That's not being respectful of the other person, which I believe was a point this person made. However, if there are those who insist on mocking others, I'm confident they'll receive back what they dish out in one form or another.

[sonicx]

23. "However, if there are those who insist on mocking others,"

"I'm confident they'll receive back what they dish out in one form or another."

Please explain why George W. Bush won again....

"My opponent could debate HIMSELF!"
"The most liberal senator ever!!"
"My opponent sits on the left bank!!!"
"you can run, but you can't hide!!"

[YIMA]

24. Campaign rhetoric is one thing

People expect politicians to say things while out on the stump. What I as a common citizen say to my fellow common citizens or about my fellow citizens with which I disagree politically is entirely different. That's why I believe this person is talking about what they're hearing the common constituent say about them, not the candidate himself. For instance, if we're hearing RWers saying that liberals are sympathetic to the Soviet Union and things like that, they're going to lose our respect.

[sonicx]

26. excuse me, but...

i've heard common conservatives say that liberals love Osama Bin Laden and the terrorists. and that I'm sorry that they caught Saddam...

and guess what? they DON'T have my respect....

and they still won. try again.

:eyes:

[YIMA]

27. I can't say it any more plain.

You have the guy in the original post being quoted as saying that people, and in this case a party or people who claim to be members of that party, who belittle his values are not people he can respect and he won't vote for the party in which they reside. That's human nature to tune-out people who mock you and who you are. It's a very personal thing. It doesn't matter which side does it, it's not right. I don't see how we can expect to change minds by mocking people. If others believe they can, I'll be interested to watch and see how they do it.

[BurtWorm]

28. But mocking a Democrat is not actually mocking.

It's "leveling the playing field." :eyes:

[rockydem]

14. Tough love ribbing is ok

We should do that.

[rockydem]

11. It's right wing media that convinces them of this

It makes them feel that they are under assault from some left wing boogy man.

[yardwork]

15. I've listened to these accusations from the right all my life

I was raised in a moderate liberal college town located in a very red county in Ohio. I attended public schools where I was constantly belittled, taunted, and sneered at for being "one of those snobby liberals." How can a child who cries every day at school because she's being taunted be a snob?

The good Christian people who made fun of me, my family, and my neighbors didn't care about fairness or kindness. It was ok to make the most outrageous statements about me and my community - we had it coming because we were "liberals." The word was spat out like an obscenity or whispered in a giggly voice.

I grew up and, true to my Democratic liberal upbringing, devoted myself to helping others. I work in rural health care. I volunteer for good causes. I am quick to defend the poor, the rural, the undereducated from being criticized. Often the ones doing the criticizing are wealthy Republicans who never had to wait tables or struggle a day in their lives.

Yet all I hear from the right-wing is how hateful I am, and how hateful every other Democrat is, and how narrow-minded we are, and spiteful, and just plain mean.

I'd give up, but I have a good example to help me through these dark days. I'm not even Christian, and yet I try to follow Christ's example. He didn't turn on the unappreciative people he was trying to help. Even when they killed him he forgave them.

[sonicx]

16. Bunnypants openly mocked Senator Kerry's state (liberals!!!!)...

and we're the ones who denigrate?

[BurtWorm]

19. Yeah!

Excellent point!

:toast:

[maxsolomon]

18. telling you you're an intolerant bigot is not belittling

if its the truth.

fundy christians have convinced themselves they are persecuted for their beliefs, when it has been they who persecute others for their beliefs since, roughly, the first crusade.

[SoonerShankle]

20. Your last line hit the nail on the head...

Most of this diatribe comes from the Hannities and Limbaughs of the world. Oh, and we can Dobson to that looonnnngggg list of names.

I'm tired of being called unpatriotic and a traitor (Ann Coulter). I'm tired of being called "girlie men" and "losers" (Arnold Schwarzenegger).
I'm tired of being called arrogant, condescending, and a fearmongerer (Bill O'Reilly).
I'm tired of being called socialist and "evil enough to destroy the very soul and heart of my country. (Alan Keyes)"
I'm tired of being called full of hatred (Rush Limbaugh and Sean Hannity).

So cry all you want if your a conservative. But I won't listen to you. Hypocrits have no place in my world.

[CornField]

22. My guess would be

The fellow has heard it often enough from his preferred pulpit that he has come to accept it.

[oldlady]

25. I WANT ACTIVIST JUDGES & LAWYERS

some RW radio/TV is pure libel & should be addressed as such. Free speech is vital-- but, what Kerry suffered under the Swifty fellas was libel & they should be held legally accountable.

[Hamlette]

29. atheists bug religious people just for being atheists

I've run into it many times. Say you're an atheist and IMMEDIATELY some people get their back up. They say I'm wrong etc. but more importantly they take it personally, like I've assaulted them by not believing or daring to doubt god, or worse, to say he doesn't exist.

I don't get it. I'm thinking its along the same lines as gay marriage is an assault on all marriage.

I'd love for someone to explain it to me. Because some people feel so threatened, I don't usually tell people my beliefs.

so, for Dems to say it's okay to not believe, or religious beliefs don't belong in the public sector, its the same thing. This person is just saying "BY YOUR VERY BEING, dems insult me because they are not as religious as I am."

It might be the seed of doubt. To believe you must set aside all reason. I don't care if people do that as long as they KNOW that is what they are doing. Many religious people can't admit it.

[BurtWorm]

32. I'd like to get an explanation of that too.

:hi:

[UTUSN]

30. Zell-from-Hell MILLER Named Mo-Do on the Don ANUS Circus

Zell-from-Hell repeatedly made this claim that Dems insult Xtian fundamentalists and the only name he cited was the Modo person, hardly a spokesperson for Dems.

[HEIL PRESIDENT GOD]

31. He is full of shit

He would have voted for Bush even if Kerry fell down during the debate and started speaking in tongues.

He's trying to salt our wounds, and anyone who buys his shit is helping him.

Democrats need to stop, not start, trying not to offend anyone.

"Born again" to the "faith of his fathers"? I bet the little shit doesn't believe in anything but killing Arabs and tax cuts for himself.

I hope there is a hell so all these people can rot in it.

[ellie]

33. Evidently,

one of the requirements of being a repuke is to have a persecution complex the size of Texas. Oh, and of course an inferiority complex too.

[BurtWorm]

34. Update:

From today's howler:

We complained about an e-mail to Alterman, not about the way red-staters have voted. (In our view, there is nothing wrong with basing your vote on opposition to abortion, for example. Richard Cohen makes this point in this morning’s Post.) But boo-hoo-hooing religious voters have long tended to get a free ride in the press (much more on this to come). When they say that Democrats mock their religion, it’s time to ask them who they mean. Clinton? Lieberman? Kerry? Edwards? Who exactly has mocked their faith? And when they boo-hoo-hoo and keen and wail about the values of northern “elites,” we think it’s time to ask these people why they’re prepared to pocket free money from such “contemptuous” elements. We’re tired of stupid political arguments based on blatantly cherry-picked Scripture, and we’re tired of listening to talk-show conservatives stage their endless Pity Parties. Do “northeastern elites” have troubling values? Sorry, but one of their values is handing free money to the less fortunate—a value red-staters seem to affirm as they stuff the free dough in their pants.

Meanwhile, for more on “internal colonies” and “extractive economies”—and for more on the historical values behind Bush conservatism—we again recommend Michael Lind’s dry but deeply intriguing book, Made in Texas.

Final point about our “prejudices:” We think people are basically the same in all fifty states, and we think those states are all red white and blue. We find it amazing that Dem politicians—Barack Obama excepted—don’t know enough to say so. We think Massachusetts is a great state—and we think Alabama is a great state too. We think the president’s endless, sneering attacks on Massachusetts were a sign of his low, inept character. And we think those attacks played hard on foolish voter prejudice—voter prejudice that ought to be challenged. And oh yeah—we think the president shows his “contempt” for red-state voters when he panders to them in this way. But then, we normally try to avoid making points that are blatantly obvious.

[nolabels]

35. Okay, I promise not say another disparaging word

at least till I finish this post anyway

[nolabels]

36. Did they ever figure out if OHIO was red or blue (he mutters to himself)

(snip)
Founding Fathers?
by Mark Roberts, Tuesday, Nov 9, 2004 12:57AM

If our founding fathers knew that 11 American states had to pass legislation to keep marriage between a man and a woman, they would roll over in their graves......

Way to tell him, Jake!
by MorningStar, Monday, Nov 8, 2004 11:38PM

Our founding fathers,
It was no accident that so many great souls incarnated in those times to create a nation dedicated to liberty and justice for all. They created the Constitution based on reason, not religious beliefs. If they saw eleven state constitutions now embracing purely social and religious issues, they would surely regard it as a dangerous departure from their hard fought ideals. I came to deeply love this country and its bold new experiment to establish a nation of laws to protect every citizen’s rights. Most people are not aware of the terrible sacrifices that many signers of the Declaration of Independence suffered. Lets remember these great souls and restore their legacy.

Tired of Being Told to Sit in the Corner
by No, YOU Get Over It, Pal, Monday, Nov 8, 2004 10:51PM

This is the second election in a row where we got screwed because they won't count all the votes. We should not just let it go. Would somebody please count the damn votes?

And quit telling us to get over it. Before another 4 years are up, it'll be me giving you the same line. Suck it up, you voted for the idiot. And if you think I'm wrong, boy are you in for a shock.
(snip)

http://www.indyvoter.org/article.php?id=233

[GreenPartyVoter]

37. We need progressive Christian talk shows!!!! All I can find are the

James Dobson, Pat Robertson and Oral Roberts types. Where are the Marcus Borgs, Bishop Spongs, Rabbi Lerners, and Mahatma Gandhis of the airwaves?!

--------------------------------------
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