Why America is not a Nazi regime (yet)?

[fshrink]

Because of its size. That's the only reason I can see. All other conditions are there (e.g. hyper religious, obedient media, vast hordes of humiliated people, fascist leadership, outdated institutions controlled by capital)

[Zorra]

1. Oh, give it a week or so. The process is rapidly accelerating. n/t

[CTLawGuy]

2. because

We have a stronger democratic tradition here in the United States today than they had in 1930's Germany.

Back then, Germans were mired in a depression and they had contempt for the democracy that got them humiliated in WWI. They wanted a strong dictatorial leader with simple solutions to their problems.

[JohnyCanuck]

5. Now which country does this remind me of today?

They wanted a strong dictatorial leader with simple solutions to their problems

[CTLawGuy]

14. not exactly true

I think people would be more than a little upset if Congress were disbanded and Bush made an actual dictator.

[fshrink]

17. Not true

In 1933, Germany had functioned on an assembly mode for way longer than the USA since their creation. There were strong parties, including the Communist party. There had been popular uprisings in 1923 and 1924. There was a free press and an underground press. There were strong and organized unions. There were philosophers and poets and writers and psychoanalysts. Sexology was born there at about the same time (Sexpol). In many respects, Germany in 1933 was much more advanced than America is today.

[CTLawGuy]

20. the Weimar Republic

was only effective since 1919, the end of WWI. It was weak and flawed and people had no respect for it since it represented humiliation in that war. Before 1866, Germany was a collection of different states ruled by princes. Germany was then conquered by the Prussians and ruled under Kaiser Wilhelm I and then Kaiser Wilhelm II.

Compare that to the US, which at the same time in history, had the SAME constitution and democratic government structure for 130 years.

the communist party was hardly "democratic". They used to crash meetings of RW groups, like the Nazis, and start large scale brawls, who would often return the favor.

Germany turned to Hitler because they thought democracy (represented by the weimar republic) was a joke and would not solve their problems. They remembered the former glory of Germany under monarchs.

In the US we have only known our democratic structure and we would never tolerate its blatant disintegration, even for someone like GW Bush.

[Socialist Dem]

3. dupe

sorry

[Socialist Dem]

4. we are 5 Senators away

All they need is 5 more Senators in 2006 to have NO checks on them.

Then they pack the courts with fundimentalist judges, and re-write the constitution. Welcome to AmeriKKKa.

[halobeam]

6. AGREED.... 5 SENATORS AWAY

Once we have another rigged election come 2006, what ever we have left right now, is just gone.

[newyawker99]

29. Hi halobeam!!

Welcome to DU!! :toast:

[seabeyond]

7. we have internet still, bummer

they forgot about the net. and they needed to win this second election

[Laelth]

11. Look for the internet to go too.

If they get those 5 Senators. Or, maybe they won't even wait that long. You really can't tell these days.

-Laelth

[ermoore]

8. For crying out loud.

This is ridiculous. You need to take a time out and go take some deep breathes somewhere. Calm down. It makes you look like a fool to even make such a comparison.

[el_gato]

10. you need to pull your head out of the sand

[chelaque liberal]

13. Have you been asleep the last four years?

This comparison becomes more relevant every day. Another thread reports that men and boys over 15 were not allowed to leave Fallujah before the attack started. That sounds like a Nazi solution to the Jews to me!

FYI: Hitler believed that he was doing God's work by attempting to exterminate the Jews. He didn't look too kindly on gays either.

[fshrink]

15. I suggest

you look at how unlikely and remote the ascension of nazism seemed to most people back then (e.g. books, press articles). The German society, the Austrian society, the French society of the early 1900s were WAY more advanced, read, rebellious and organized than today's America. But you probably see this period like a sort of hollywoodian cataclysm.

[Cleita]

9. Yes, because we are so big, we are harder to control.

TG for small advantages. At least we can still communicate with our own without too much fear of retaliation. There are just too many of us and this is why we will eventually win and put the PNAC criminals in jail.

[Journeyman]

18. One of the distinguishing characteristics Hannah Arendt recognized. . .

in her study, Origins of Totalitarianism, is that totalitarian rule -- as against totalitarian movements -- was only possible in Hitlerian Germany and the Soviet Union because of their large, superfluous populations.

Far from arguing that we are a totalitarian movement or government in waiting, I present this merely to illustrate that population alone cannot be counted on to deter a descent into madness, and may indeed serve but to hasten it.

[Cleita]

23. Hmm. I respect Arendt but don't always agree with her.

I think our numbers will save us because we don't have the same economic climate Russia and Nazi Germany had. We actually had affluence when Bush took office. Germany was almost bankrupt, and Russia was ruled by a small aristocracy who took everthing while the peasants starved.

[Journeyman]

27. My point was, numbers alone will not be the determining factor. . .

but then, I don't accede to the hysteria of many of these types of posts, either. There are far too many differences -- such as you just pointed out -- than there are similarities between our present situation and that of Hitlerian Germany or Stalin's Soviet.

[JohnyCanuck]

12. The stolen election of 2004: welcome back to hell

The stolen election of 2004: welcome back to hell

By
Larry Chin
Online Journal Associate Editor

<snip>

As sadistic Bush slurred in his "acceptance" speech, "a new term is a new opportunity". Then the most chilling words yet: "I earned political capital. I intend to spend it." If the last four years brought the world to its knees, imagine what is to come as Bush-Cheney giddily pry open a new set of larger Pandora's Boxes.

Webster Tarpley, author of the Unauthorized Biography of George Bush writes: "If Bush retains control of the White House, we can expect a neocon fascist dictatorship or martial law emergency regime in 2005 or 2006, possibly as the result of synthetic terrorism. The neocons are in a desperate flight forward mentality which seeks to avoid the penal consequences of what they have already done with Valerie Plame, the Niger yellowcake forgeries, the Israeli mole scandal, and the Chalabi betrayal of state secrets. The neocon preference is for early war with Iran. War with Russia and China cannot be excluded somewhat further down the road."

Add to that the relentless horror that will be inflicted when the effects of Peak Oil (also see From The Wilderness and Richard Heinberg) crash home in earnest, the body bags pile higher with new wars, and the lives of Americans (including Bush drones) and people all over the world continue to be destroyed.

Some members of the current Bush crime organization may leave or retire, and the possibilities include Donald Rumsfeld, and John Ashcroft (possibly replaced with Marc Racicot, a long-time friend of George W. Bush, and W's first choice for attorney general in 2000). Expect their replacements to be less well known criminals who, if anything, may be more toxic.

www.fromthewilderness.com/free/ww3/110804_stolen_election.shtml

[The Minus World]

16. They are not in the majority yet.

They need the right disaster; something they can effectively blame on liberals. Bush's leap to 90% approval after 9/11 is evidence that Americans are pliable in times of uncertainty.

If they can maintain an atmosphere of tension around possible terrorist attacks, the media can easily push America over the brink of sanity with an inaccurate portrayal of liberals as "terrorist sympathizers who threaten our national security."

Just watch.

[dethl]

19. I wouldn't put it past the Neocons

to create another "disaster". Then again, they could probably just wait, and OBL will probably do it for them.

[xxqqqzme]

21. if U haven't come 2 grips

w/ the reality of the just kompleted korporate koup and the theft of everything not nailed down - civil liberties, justice, water, air, national parks, etc....I don't know how 2 explain it. Where have U been the last 4 years?

[Catholic Sensation]

25. Tell me rozf, what civil liberties have "u" lost?

I don't know how 2 explain it.

Probably bekause "u" don't know what the fuck "ur" talking about.

[Laelth]

26. Not who you wanted an answer from, but ...

1) Right to privacy (phone taps and other invasions of privacy now allowed if you're merely "suspected" of being a terrorist)
2) Right to property (the government can take everything you own if you're merely "suspected" of being a terrorist)
3) The right to an attorney (Supreme Court says this right can be denied if you're merely "suspected" of being a terrorist--ask the folks in Guantanamo Bay)
4) The right to a speedy trial (Supreme Court says this right can be denied if you're merely "suspected" of being a terrorist--ask the folks in Guantanamo Bay)
5) Freedom of the press (Check out this thread).
6) And, perhaps, the right to vote (and have it counted--good argument says this election was stolen).

A lot of our rights have been "sacrificed" over the past 3 years in the name of "protecting us from terrorists."

-Laelth


Edit:Laelth--BBCode fixes.

[Catholic Sensation]

28. oh so easy to poke holes

1) Right to privacy (phone taps and other invasions of privacy now allowed if you're merely "suspected" of being a terrorist)

How many illegal phone taps have there been? Don't give me anecdotal evidence like "my co-worker's sister heard that someone in her father in law's town had his phone tapped."

2) Right to property (the government can take everything you own if you're merely "suspected" of being a terrorist)

Again, I would love to see evidence of it being done. And again, anecdotal evidence is shit and isn't evidence by any definition of the word unless your definition is "complete horseshit."

3) The right to an attorney (Supreme Court says this right can be denied if you're merely "suspected" of being a terrorist--ask the folks in Guantanamo Bay)

Right to an attorney is given to people living in America. And when the Administration pulls that no attorney shit on people living in America the courts rightly reverse that shit. The shit done to Padilla was overturned.

4) The right to a speedy trial (Supreme Court says this right can be denied if you're merely "suspected" of being a terrorist--ask the folks in Guantanamo Bay)

Rights to American citizens are different from rights given to prisoners of war. I hope you're just as outraged at the lack of a speedy trial given to the occupants of Hanoi Hilton by the North Vietnamese.

5) Freedom of the press

There is freedom of the press, and the press has freely choosen to be whores for the right.

6) And, perhaps, the right to vote (and have it counted--good argument says this election was stolen).

Perhaps isn't quite good enough.

[Laelth]

31. OK, but why are you so angry?

Really? Doesn't it frighten you in the least bit that these rights are being eroded? And I could give you anecdotal evidence on several of those fronts, but what's the point? You are determined not to see what I'm trying to show you. Fine.

Please, go be angry with someone else.

-Laelth

[LibertyorDeath]

30. ""u" don't know what the fuck "ur" talking about"

Wake up & smell the Fascism

[Squeech]

22. Read this guy

http://dneiwert.blogspot.com/

He's a real journalist, does a lot of legwork and research, and his areas of interest are right wing crackpot militia types and white supremacist networks. He thinks we're real close to the edge.

I think I agree, and I think I would feel this way even if I hadn't read his arguments. For one thing, I know about the early days of the Roman empire, when they retained all the trappings of republic-- debate in the senate, elections for consuls and other officials, etc.-- even while concentrating all real power in the hands of the emperor and his inner circle, and I have no doubt that Karl Rove and Dick Cheney aren't smart enough to do likewise behind Dim Son. And moreover, 9/11 smelled enough like a burning Reichstag to terrify me.

[Hubert Flottz]

24. You are so right!

Tha country is a powder keg and the chimp is playing with the matches!