Should we regroup the Dem Party with the Greens and Indeps?

[friesianrider]

You know, the Republicans won this election by totally telling moderates to go fuck themselves and shoring up their base - fanatically so, more than ever before.

Perhaps we, the Democratic Party, needs to regroup and join with the Greens and Independents. Hell, if the GOP can sell tax breaks for billionaires, we can sell being staunch protectors of the environment and telling corporations to go to hell.

We tried to move to the center in 2002 and 2004 and how's the working for us? Should we move the Democratic Party to the left to include the Greens and more liberal, left-wing parties?

[stepnw1f]

1. We Have to Unite!!!!

We don't need to be bickering over who, why, when, what. Let the Right underestimate us.

[zeemike]

2. Good idea

But it will require the dumping of any Democrat that still thinks he can be elected by playing ball with the Repugs

[laruemtt]

20. guess it's byebye to lieberman.

don't let the door hit ya on the way out joe.

[GreenPartyVoter]

3. Two party politics just don't work, even if it's technically a big tent

Too easy for one party or the other to go extreme and take over.

What we need is a true multi-party coalition nation now.

-----------------------------------------------------------
FIGHT! Take this country back one town and state at a time!
http://www.geocities.com/greenpartyvoter/electionreform.htm

[friesianrider]

14. I totally disagree.

And the reason why is that if you have a lot of "other" parties (heck, even third party), you can have someone winning with 3 or 4% of the vote. Look at all the countries that have 10 different parties. One wins by having such a small percentage of the vote. You also have tons of left-wing third parties which, say what you will, DO ABSOLUTELY FUCKING NOTHING but take votes away from Democrats. Period, end of story. I don't give a shit what the selfish meaning is behind a vote for a 3rd party, the fact is they do absolutely nothing with themselves or achieve anything but assisting the election of Republicans.

[GreenPartyVoter]

17. Ranked voting needs to come into play along with

other reforms.

Read up on that before dissing the idea.

-----------------------------------------------------------
FIGHT! Take this country back one town and state at a time!
http://www.geocities.com/greenpartyvoter/electionreform.htm

[3trievers]

25. disagree

I think we do quite well in Canada.Ask the conservative party of Kim Campbell.From ruling party to 2 seats,2 seats!!!!!!!!!! Of course we have a parliamentary system,quite different.

[mikehiggins]

4. We should LEAVE the Democratic Party like it was a rotting

corpse, like it is, and move into the Greens or simply take over Perot's old Independence Party structure.

Hold a national convention and establish a party position of fiscal responsibility, environmental sanity and economic protectionism.

Then go from there, arguing those positions from the bottom up and helping folks win seats on city councils, etc. Build a progressive coalition about issues the average citizen can understand and relate to.

Edited to add: learn from the Bolsheviks. To wield power you must first gain power.

[mike_c]

10. I've already gone to the greens...

...but my gut feeling has always been that the dems and the greens will need to reach an accomodation and work together. Unfortunately, in 2004 that meant "greens need to shut up and just vote for Kerry." Medea Benjamin was ejected from the DNC for attempting to make an antiwar statement. None of the liberal agenda was left in the party platform. That's not working together-- that's "our way or the highway."

We're not going to have coalition government in this country within my lifetime, so the only way the Greens and Dems will be able to resolve their differences is by genuine good faith compromise and consensus. So far, I see a much greater willingness to accomplish that on the part of Greens than among dems, unfortunately. I've been saying all along that it's disheartening that during every election the dem centrists tell the left that "this election is too important to risk being liberal."

[Hamlette]

5. we don't need a group, we need a message

we can't let the GOP frame us as "liberals" "big government" "big spenders"

What do we stand for? How can we frame it into little soundbites so we can make people understand we are on their side?

[fugue]

7. Let's see

"Safe workplaces"
"Living wages"
"Dignity for all"
"Active compassion"

And of course deflate the GOP's gross lie about "big government" and "big spenders": that's their party!

[Sara Beverley]

6. Would be a great coalition.

Need the courage to try.

[mandyky]

8. American Labor and Justice Party

ALJ for short and we would appeal to Greens and Independents

[range78]

9. I agree

If we are going to lose let us lose with our beliefs intact. I'm tired of repug lite(Carson). I'm in Oklahoma an it keeps getting worse. We now have Coburn to contend with for the next 6 years. We need to make republican a dirty word, much like they have with liberal.

[Sapphocrat]

11. Yes, and here's why...

Too exhausted to re-phrase into a new post, but this explains why -- and how (in response to the question, "Will the Democratic Party finally get back to its progressive roots?":

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=2583854#2584359

[izzie]

12. It is time to be more old time Dem. I think.

Every thing goes in waves and we have not gone done far enough. If you recall this is more power for the GOP than they have had in I would say 50 years. Since FDR came in I think. To many people do not see what is going on yet I guess.

[Demos]

21. I agree We are at a major turn in the historical road of our nation.

Bush has control of both houses. Let's hope there are some responsible moderate Republicans that will help Democrats keep a lid on some of Bush's agenda. However, the newly elected Republican Senators do not offer much hope of that! Bush will appoint extremely right wing and young judges to the courts. Rumsfeld will replace generals who disagree with him with those he can count on as "yes men". Ashcroft will continue to denigrate human rights. Corporations will continue to exert great influence over government agencies. Big Government will continue to kowtow to the interests of Big Business. The term "fascism" is not out of place here. Bush will exceed FDR or Reagan in changing the complexion of American life. The press will become even more a part of corporate America. I fear the days of freedom are numbered, and I know not what we can do.

[Only Me]

28. This is truly a terrifiying time. So much is at risk. And know matter

what the media say, I truly believe that Bush is not that well trusted or like even within his own party. I honestly believe many of his own voters voted based on 2 or 3 values issues, massively promoted by their Fundamentalist leaders, (emotional votes) not because they really believe him.

[K-W]

13. Several things wrong with your post.

First off, Republicans won this election by appealing to moderates without pissing off thier base, not by telling moderates to go fuck themselves. Bush ran with education as one of his main issues. He did his best liberal impression, just like 2000.

The Republican base is, like the democratic base, not on its own big enough to win an election. Which is why both candidates run to the center for the election. Nobody runs to the center faster or with more urgency than Bush, he convinced alot of America that he had the same policies as Al Gore in 2000, and alot that he had the same basic policies as Kerry this time around.

The Green party does not have enough votes to really matter.

Independents dont group with anybody, that is why they are called independents. They arent a group, they are the people without groups.

[Sapphocrat]

30. A number of analysts (and I) disagree with you...

Even the twits on CNN this morning agreed that the magic formula for the repukes was to concentrate on expanding their base and GOTV there, rather than worry about the moderates.

The way they expanded their base was, of course, to run their own underground network through the far-right churches, a faction that was barely acknowledged by the media.

We're never going to win enough converts (if any) from the Dark Side to make a dent in GOP strongholds, and trying to appeal to the moderates has been -- well, as Dr. Phil always says, "So, how's that been workin' out for ya?"

Arianna nailed it today:

Already there are those in the party convinced that, in the interest of expediency, Democrats need to put forth more "centrist" candidates — i.e. Republican-lite candidates — who can make inroads in the all-red middle of the country.

I'm sorry to pour salt on raw wounds, but isn't that what Tom Daschle did? He even ran ads showing himself hugging the president! But South Dakotans refused to embrace this lily-livered tactic. Because, ultimately, copycat candidates fail in the way "me-too" brands do.

Unless the Democratic Party wants to become a permanent minority party, there is no alternative but to return to the idealism, boldness and generosity of spirit that marked the presidencies of FDR and JFK and the short-lived presidential campaign of Bobby Kennedy.

Good read:
http://www.ariannaonline.com/columns/column.php?id=742

[d_b]

15. Dems need new leadership

Or we need to become the new leadership.

[BadMatt22]

16. Possible Strategy: Libertarian/Democrat alliance

May sound insane at first, but the Dems will pick up alot of the moderate Repubs that feel left behind by their own party. It may be the only way to maintain a base.

[mandyky]

18. Libertarians are as bad as the GOP

I call them the GOP on steroids. When it comes to taxes, they don't want to pay anything and no regulation on business. I'd rather merge with the Socialist party for pity's sake.

[Demos]

23. They are not that bad, they believe in limited government

for everyone. Republicans believe in limited government for everyone except the rich, well born and big corporations, they of course need special help.

[FreshAir]

19. Priorities

In any case, we have some VERY tough fights ahead.

Our first priority (in my opinion, of course) is finding a strong Senate minority leader able to maintain the same level of discipline the Republicans have had since '98. This will be crucial once we get to SCOTUS nominees.

Second, we need to develop media outlets in the Southwest and the Midwest. Air America works for those already converted, but I haven't seen it bringing over any people to our side.

An effective media is crucial - since a recent PIPA study showed that Bush supporters were far less likely to know objective facts about Bush's policies, especially relating to Iraq. (My favorite: 56% of Bush supporters believe that the 9/11 report concluded that Iraq was either directly involved in 9/11 (13%), or providing substantial support to al-Qaeda(43%)).

Now we know that these things are incredibly untrue, so we have to reach out to these rural voters with undeniable facts.

Third, start framing poverty, unemployment, war, and education as central moral (read: Christian) issues. What's the central reason for why people for Bush this election?

"Moral" reasons. Right now the focus of these issues has been gay marriage and abortion, where we are weak with the public. Yes - I know Kerry opposed gay marriage, but he tried to fudge it. What people in the South/Mid-West heard was: "Bush opposes gay marriage, so Kerry must support it."

--

As for unifying with the Greens and other parties - we first need to take ownership of the word "liberal" - showing it means we believe in health care for every person, affordable education, robust economy, and a sane foreign policy. We can start doing this by having our politicians - especially those with comfortable margins - describe themselves as such on national TV.

[GreenInNC]

22. We invite you to look at our platform

The Green Party would love for you to take a look at our platform and if it appeals to you, come join us: http://www.gp.org/platform.html

Gray Newman
National Co-Chair, Green Party of the United States

[greekspeak]

24. Damn good question

I think the Dem party might not survive this shock. I am personally tired of playing homage to elephants in donkey's clothing. I KNOW I am not the only one. My only hope is that if the dems do split into liberal and conservative faction is that the conservative faction gets some moderate pukes to come to their side and balance things out.

[friesianrider]

26. We need to find common ground with other progressives.

Such as the Greens and other Indeps. We have splintered into several groups while the GOP has solidified their base.

[K-W]

27. Progressives need to build thier own community

independent of a political party. With proper organization and influence over votes that community could then become a player in the political system with clout.

29. Please, lets take back our party!

There's a new Democratic Party in the making. We began the day democracy died - 11/03/04. We need the voices of those who would take back our party. We need the voices of those who would take back the word "Liberal."



Rise With The Phoenix

[Cat Atomic]

31. We have to get rid of the electronic voting machines.

Until we do that, the rest is pointless.

[msgadget]

32. I was thinking this today

The DNC needs to reach out to the Greens, Dean, Kucinich and even Nader to develop a platform that will show America what it's missing with that other party. But, as another thread here is saying, we have to frame it appealingly, simply and like it wouldn't be voting for communism to support such a platform. And, we can have our own friggin' catch phrases for once!