BBV-- We Must Stop Bush From Stealing the 2004 Election

[KC]

We Must Stop Bush From Stealing the 2004 Election
By Norman D. Livergood

Americans must act now to stop the Bush II junta's already ongoing criminal initiative to steal the 2004 election. The Republican-owned voting machine corporations, the defense industry, and the entire criminal gang in the White House are already working in every way possible to rig the 2004 election in their favor.

On August 26, 2003, voting industry insiders held a secret meeting to hire a public relations (propaganda) firm to sell electronic voting to a gullible American public, as reported by Bev Harris. The meeting, a private teleconference among voting industry insiders, was supposed to have been top secret, but David Allen, publisher of Black Box Voting, was able to obtain a transcript of the conspiratorial meeting.

more

http://www.hermes-press.com/Voting/vote_rig.htm

[shirlden]

1. Ohioians - please read and respond

This is a prelim paper to jumpstart your activist brain. Feedback from all Duers please.......We must begin this battle in Ohio this week.


IMMEDIATE OBJECTIVE : Stop the purchase of voting machines in Ohio

LONG RANGE OBJECTIVE: Vote reform legislation on Federal level to eliminate all corporatization of our voting system.



Evidence and research is showing that HAVA should more rightly be called the Help (Steal) America’s Vote Act. HAVA was promoted in congress by corporate interest using campaign donations and the “Florida debacle” as an argument for vote reform.

The use of electronic voting machines in all precincts in America is not a reform package that benefit’s the American voter in anyway. The immediate benefit would be over five billion dollars transferred from the public treasury to corporate accounts. The long range benefit would be more money for constant upgrades, new software, repair, etc. The other long term benefit is the issue of security. Recent evidence clearly indicates the vulnerability of these machines to tampering and ultimately vote fraud on a grand scale.

Many tech experts and others concerned with the security problem are now demanding electronic voting machines produce an “auditable paper trail” in the form of a paper ballot. This paper ballot could be checked by the voter and then deposited in a locked box for recount purposes. The e-vote machine industry and many government election officials are staunchly opposed to a paper ballot. The question is “WHY” are they opposed . The arguments they use are sophomoric and easily disputed. The only reasonable answer for their obstinate and unrelenting position is that if the public realizes we need a paper ballot, they may begin to ask why do we need an electronic voting machine. The answer, of course, is that we don’t.

Here, in Ohio, we have a unique opportunity to frame and define this debate. If we attempt to argue the technical data being produced on the security issue, we will lose the average voters attention very quickly. If we make it primarily a vote fraud issue, the public will give us a “so what’s new” attitude and soon ignore us. O’Dell’s statement has given us the opening we need to claim that the voting booth is too small for us and all these CEO’s. The average American is disgusted with CEO compensation and they are not overly happy about the national debt. So our focus must be on the issue of keeping corporate boards out of our pocket books and voting booths.

We can make this all totally non-partisan, so we eliminate the usual come back that the Dems are just using this for a political issue. Base our arguments in terms of saving the local (read counties) taxpayer unnecessary expenditures in this time of such a tight economy. One good argument they would understand is that these current e-vote machines are beta issue. We can use what we have now and wait for the technology in a few years that will give us “internet voting” . Skip this interim cost for machines that will be outdated in just a very few short years.


We are all aware of the abbreviated attention span of and the lack of political involvement of the American public. So it is critical that we keep this message simple, personal, and on track. We need to prepare a paper with “talking points” and evidential statements that are easily understood and irrefutable.
We need to do this quickly and we need to involve all activists and organizations in Ohio. We also, need a person who is experienced in putting together and leading a campaign of this size.
Feedback, volunteers, leaders, ideas, help…please !!!

Slogans ??????? for instance....It isn't the paper ballot we don't need, it is the voting machine we don't need.

[RedEagle]

12. Did Anyone Read ALL of Shirlden's Message?

Shirlden made some good points until this:

"We can use what we have now and wait for the technology in a few years that will give us “internet voting” . Skip this interim cost for machines that will be outdated in just a very few short years."

Internet voting is worse on a scale of about 10,000 then Touch Screens without a paper ballot. Touch Screens introduce tampering on a machine by machine basis, or county counting central basis. Internet opens vote tampering to the world.

As much as activists deplore the Touch Screens and manipulation of the accounting(counting)programs in Optical Scan, Internet voting is far, far worse.

Even IF you get a receipt voting by Internet, there is no way to assure ANY total vote count because you can't gather everyone up and total their individual receipts. Again, you're supposed to "trust" some computer program, encryption, and world-wide network exposure.

Shirlden argues for paper ballots, but then advocates waiting for Internet voting.

Which side of this issue is she/he on?

Internet Voting is not a magic bullet unless you're talking about the final death blow to democracy. That magic is in the hands of the very corporate entities you wish to get away from.

For example, the Serve Project, which is supposed to "serve" miltary and overseas voters, will have voters use PC's (very vulnerable, just download a corruption program before voting, for one example)that sends their votes to Accenture owned (since they say the Pentagon doesn't really own them) servers in the Pentagon. Accenture or Rumsfeld have a lot of access to votes before the counties download them from there. Also, enter the possibility of sending along a vote-counting corruption program with those votes. Unless counties use a computer isolated completely from the rest of voting in their system, goodness knows what else the "Serve" project can accomplish.

By all means, demand that Touch Screens produce a voter verified paper ballot and that that ballot is the ballot of record and used in all recounts and audits.

But don't push Internet voting as some kind of cure. You should be as opposed to that, or more so, than Touch Screens. Touch Screens are only the intermediary step to get people used to the idea of no physical evidence of their vote, and to voting via computers. Of course they don't want them long-lived. One rep said about 10-15 years.

And don't for a minute get fooled about maintenance costs on Internet voting. One 2000 article I read said paper voting cost about .25 to .35 CENTS a vote. Internet voting cost $5.00 to $6.00 DOLLARS a vote. (VoteHere) Technology isn't stagnet. A program is a static target for hackers, so they will have to continually upgrade any Internet program. Those upgrades will cost the counties plenty and introduce all kinds of venues for corruption. Remember how many laws there are now that let the Secretaries of State OK any kind of change to voting systems if they THINK it won't "change" how the system works? Remember the ability in Diebold's systems to alter the vote via Microsoft Access? Something that doesn't, by present rules, have to be certified? As memory recalls, Jim Adler of VoteHere has been working on certification rules for the very system he's peddling?

Say NO to Touch Screens without a voter verified paper ballot.

Enact legislation to make sure that paper ballot is the ballot of record and can be recounted and used in audits. It must ALWAYS take precedence over the electronic record.

Say NO to Internet voting. According to a top scientist I talked to a few months ago, to even begin to contemplate that would mean redesigning the Internet itself, from the ground up, because it was never meant to be a secure medium in the first place. Look at hackers abilities now. Even if you redesign the Internet, they are not going to go away and they have capabilities that the "scientists" don't have.

We don't go there, no way, no how.

[shirlden]

15. Hi Red Eagle..allow me to expand

I am not in favor or internet voting. I am attempting to put together a message that will catch the attention of the uninformed and so far uninterested electorate.
My message is .....why spend hard earned money on a system that is all ready antiquated. They will believe that internet voting is just around the corner. After all, aren't we going to test this idea on our troops in the next election ? Haven't we all thrown away money on technology, just to have another best thing come along a day later.

Help us here with some positive advice.

edit to add.....I am in favor of a paper ballot if we can not stop the nation wide purchase of these infernal machines any other way. But we have to find a way to reach the electorate. So far, they are not paying attention and the media is no help.

[RedEagle]

19. You can't fight a carrot with a carrot

Shirlden,

It's very confusing about whether you are for or against Internet voting.

I already explained part of what was wrong with the military vote, via the Serve Project.

You can't win the paper ballot argument by diverting attention to another flawed system.

By doing that, you just help the cause of unverified voting.

You can't fight this by telling people where to look next as an excuse to not fund the present, if that next is more lethal to democracy than the Touch Screen systems.

The powers that control this will be all too happy to take your diversion and run with it, meanwhile, using all those people you propose to back off Touch Screens with the promise of Internet, who have not been educated about the pitfalls of both.

This would be a very dangerous tactic.

We must educate the public about both flawed, fraud-prone systems.

[shirlden]

21. Against internet voting

without qualifications. Your input on this issue is what I am trying to get. Please shoot me down if you think I am wrong, and that is what you are doing. Now give me some positive simple steps we can take to convince the sleeping public to wake the hell up.

Everyone I try to talk to about the voting issue, other than those here at DU, tell me they haven't read or heard a thing about it. The message is not getting out and I am talking about educated, involved people.

[RedEagle]

24. Steps

Get a list of all the county auditors in your state and send them information, especially the stuff about the systems problems.

Get on your SOS's case but also CC that too the legislators and governor.

Write ALL the state legislators. They don't have to be in your district. Ask them point blank if they are for or against auditable, accountable systems. Ask them to PROVE that BBV machines can be audited. (They can't without the VVPB, it's just redundant storage)Let them know come voting time they will have to account for it if they come out against voter verified paper ballots.

If your state calls for a hand recount in certain situations, ask them how they are going to do that. (Again, no print outs after the fact)

Do they understand that a DRE puts a step in between the voter and the vote? It does not make a ballot, it records some information, goodness knows what, somewhere, but that is NOT a ballot. This is like having a secretary write down your vote for you. If the secretary is not honest or quite with it that day, who knows what information gets recorded?

A DRE (Touch Screen) conducts a secret vote count. That's not supposed to happen. NO ONE CAN OBSERVE IT.

Write your local papers, keep at it. Letters to the editor, guest articles. Heck, take out ads, hand out fliers. Write for your little weekly magazines. Write for regional stuff, but WRITE. You can do it. Find 5 - 10 other people to write to local papers, as usually you are only allowed to get in one letter a month.

Signs in car windows like the No War signs.

Bumper stickers.

Pins.

Be willing to talk to civic groups, heck, ASK if you can speak.

Call in to any and all radio shows where you have the least opportunity to insert the subject. I got on Coast to Coast last week!

You have to be persistant and be a pain in the you know what. Let them know this issue will not go away.

Get familiar with HAVA. It requires a paper trail with audit capacity. So it doesn't say voter verified ballot- it doesn't have to. There is no other way to create an independent, valid audit trail without it. And they could be in violation of HAVA and get funds refused if they don't follow it.

Create and push your own state legislation. Get your local auditor to back verified paper ballots. Push the political parties at the local level to DO something, or state a position.

Make noise and publicize any official who won't get behind this.

Come up with a resolution and get it signed and present it.

Stage marches or demonstrations. GET NOTICED. (legally)

People have to do their own PR and spread the word. Circumvent the major media, shut them out, don't patronize them, AND LET THEM KNOW WHY.

[BeFree]

23. Keypoints? Steal this.....rough draft

Voting systems are being changed because of what happened in Florida 2000 when * was selected, remember that? The counting of votes there was all screwed up, so congress passed another unfunded mandate requiring the whole US to use computers to count votes.

Well, what will happen is that instead of local election boards using machinery which is commonly understood, national corporations, using centralized computer systems controlled by just a few individuals, will now be the last word in how your vote is counted.
We're moving from counting chads to counting electronic flashes.

The counting of the vote would be held by a few unknown individuals based in an unknown location, instead of the friendly local election boards spread out across America.

Another problem: Computers can be hacked. Computers are VERY complicated machines run by mysterious software which, let's be honest, is sometimes akin to magic! We don't need magic counting the votes. We need the real thing. We need the easily understood, common man way of making sure our votes are counted as cast. Paper ballots are still the only way to do this.

The best option is this: An electronic record of the vote can be held in a computer allowing for a quick unofficial count. At the same time as the computer electronically records the vote a paper reciept is printed, this reciept being similar to the one from a grocery store cash register. This paper reciepy/ballot would be the OFFICIAL vote so that if the computer goes haywire, nothing is lost!

Now, somre folx say there's a conspiracy afoot....they say that some people want to control how the vote was counted... Ain't that what we used the Supreme Court for in Florida 2000? Ya calling that a conspiracy? No Way, right? <grin>

[Eloriel]

25. Another key point treatment

I stole this from Rebecca Mercuri (and of course Bev Harris has a gazillion stealable lines):

"Any programmer can write code that displays one thing on a screen, records something else, and prints yet another result."



And only the programmer will ever know. NO ONE at state or national certification looks at the code line-by-line (or at all, that we know of). NO ONE can assure us that the software doesn't contain errors that could affect vote totals and doesn't contain malicious code which could allow the election to be stolen -- except, of course, the vendor and to be honest, THEY might not know. They could unknowingly employ rogue programmers (tho that's less of a concern to some of us than knowingly employing them, but still it's an argument).

Without a voter-verified paper ballot, there's no way to conduct an independent recount if one is needed. (ALERT: We also have to make sure that your states haven't passed laws making the "electronic" vote the only legal vote, as my state of Georgia has.)

So -- no one knows what's in the code; no one is allowed to know what's in the code; no one but the vendors themselves can assure us the code is error- and fraud-free; no paper ballots to check questionable elections -------> they can steal our votes and no one could know, and no one could tell one way or another. They can steal our votes with impunity, and they've made it literally impossible for us to find out for sure and/or prove it.

And oh, for the reason listed in my first sentence (R. Mercuri), audit logs are totally unreliable. That's been shown by Bev Harris as well, re Diebold software: The Harris Report: "Inside A U.S. Election Vote Counting Program"
http://www.scoop.co.nz/mason/stories/HL0307/S00065.htm

Edited to add: If ya'll want to get ACTIVIST about this whole thing, and isn't it time?? -- please go to http://www.blackboxvoting.org to the discussion forums.

Eloriel

[Booberdawg]

2. What can I do in Iowa??

:shrug:

[shirlden]

4. Iowa seems to have a better handle

on this than the other states. If I am not mistaken you have an SOS who has taken a dim view of e-voting machines. You need to support him and get others to support him. Also we need, in my opinion, to shape this debate in "money" terms. ie..cost to voter (Congress will never appropriate all the funds and the counties will be left with the bill); don't let CEO's share your voting booth; hysteria over the Florida mess does not justify an expenditure of over 5 billion dollars in these hard times: Etc. I know the Duers here can do better than me with simple arguments.
We must become activist.....no one else is going to do it....if Du doesn't

:bounce:

[Booberdawg]

17. Well thanks

sounds like we are doing okay here for the "most" part. There is one Republican I'd like to see replaced....

I've been on the cusp of Iowa/Nebraska for many years and chose Iowa simply because of it's better funding for education, particularly the special education program.

But, I'm no longer constrained by the special education factor and thus have no compelling reason to stay in Iowa. If I move I gotta consider the political possibilities. i sure as hell ain't movin to ..... nevermind! ;) Or there either! ....

[peacetalksforall]

3. In addition to the BBV issues, codes, sloppiness, intent...

We can't ignore what's been ignored in the past and what has been revealed from the last four years specificially.

A four party team must ensure that voters are not purged from the rolls by Katherine Harris team type stealth. That police are not used to divert voters on their way to the polls. That innocent poll volunteers aren't dumping ballots in boxes or file drawers, that absentee ballots aren't pirated. That DeLay actor-raiders do not stop counts. That legal teams are ready to act. That exit polls are resureccted honestly.

[shirlden]

5. Amen to that, Higher Class

All that can be part of a Voting Reform Bill after we take the WH back. Right now we need to concentrate on winable strategy and that must be a "simple" message that captures the interest of our uninterested electorate. We need ideas and activism in this area.

Please keep this kicked for all the party going Labor Day Duers.

:bounce:

[LWolf]

6. Give us some suggestions.

For most of us who are not Ohio residents...what can we do to support this effort? The outcome will dominoe out to us in the other 49 states; we'd like Ohio to be a victory for us.

[leftchick]

13. It is happening in EVERY state thanks to HAVA!

Every cititzen in Every State needs to be concerned Thanks to the bogus Help America Vote Act instituted by the chimp himself! Here is what we all should be doing.... this is a link to Paranoidpat's thread in Activism:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=106&topic_id=875

There is all you need right at your finger tips in this Great Armchair Activism Thread!
I suggest starting with your state's Secretary of State and then contact your local and statewide voting officials.

You also NEED to visit the BBV research and activism site:
http://blackboxvoting.org/

Loads of information there!

[Name removed]

7. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[kimchi]

8. Have you ever heard of

COUNTING THE VOTES

so that the correct electors get to do their largely symbolic voting?

Or is intimidation of voting officials more your style for a day of fun?

[Name removed]

9. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[birdman]

11. Gee, a real Freeper

do you, like, live near a power plant or something ?

[Booberdawg]

18. LOL!

I didn't even need to see what the freeper said to be entertained by your response!:7

[nuxvomica]

10. I don't think it's right to call the electoral college "morons"

First of all, the word is "morans".

[sasquatch]

14. It's pretty damned bad when the Republicans are against it

Jeff Jacobson is trying to get the courts to stop Ohio from using Diebold voting machines because the man selling them is a Bush Donater. "Gee guys you don't want the Christian Idenity Movement running this country", uhhh....NO!! Man I hate these people.

[leftchick]

16. a call to action!

:kick:

[shirlden]

20. A kick for the evening folks

n/t

:kick:

[maggrwaggr]

22. I love what the Hermes Press article SAYS but --

all the pictures with Bush-as-Hitler and all of that will strike most uninformed readers as paranoid propaganda from the left wing

Which is unfortunate because I think this is the biggest story of this election.

I believe that Bush is going down in 04 no problem UNLESS he steals the election this way.

Someone needs to, uh, more gently feed this to the American people.

[4dog]

27. They will steal it in '04 for sure if

we can't spead the word and reduce the current level of ignorance on this issue. Find a neighbor and work together or do it yourself if you have to, but get the word out as best you can.

It sure would be nice if there were one centrist/nonpartisan looking web site we could direct people to. Dill has now become somewhat suspect. Mercuri's is ok but has not been updated since '02. Bev's is good, but you have to know a little to appreciate it - it's not a primer.

[shirlden]

26. Thanks Red Eagle

Be Free and Eloriel and all the other who responded.