I think I just broke up with my brother

[loathesomeshrub]

I just sent this to him and a few other people. http://www.sierratimes.com/04/10/20/carlworden.htm
He replied cc ing them all, in caps, telling me
"I TELL YOU WHAT I TOLD THAT IDIOT THAT WROTE THAT COLUMN THESE RALLY’S ARE VERY EXPENSIVE AND THE CANDIDATES DON’T HAVE MONEY TO PAY FOR THESE EVENTS SO THAT THEY CAN BE HECKLED, THEY ARE TRYING TO GET THEIR MESSAGE OUT NOT DEBATE ANYTHING THEY ARE ALL HEAVILY SCREENED, DEMOCRATS DO THE SAME THING. STOP READING SHIT AND THINK FOR YOURSELF, YOU HATE BUSH, AND YOUR STANDARD OF TRUTH IS MICHAEL MOORE. IF KERRY’S ELECTED THE FIRST SET OF KIDS THAT ARE KILLED AT A LOCAL SCHOOL BY ISLAMO FACISTS . I WILL BE WAITING FOR YOUR EMAIL TAKING RESPONSIBILITY FOR THEIR DEATH"
Well I also replied very strongly telling him how it is and basically after a few back and forth I guess we won't be talking any more
Again, Thank you George W. My standard phrase for every bad thing we hear about every day 99 % of which can be laid at his door

[The Jacobin]

1. Uh Oh

"ISLAMO FACISTS"

This is a slander thrown around Michael Savage and his fascist ilk.

I don't think you can have a rational conversation with him.

[Swede]

2. Sounds like brother's been chugging on the kool-aid.

But try to agree to not talk politics just to save a relationship with your brother.

[loathesomeshrub]

3. May be too late. And all I did was send a link. I didn't deserve that

I am very upset with him

[Demonaut]

20. "islamo facists" he's listening to michael savage..poor kid is being brain

washed

[loathesomeshrub]

27. I had never heard that before. I thought he'd made it up.

Maybe he istens to the radio when he's on the road. Is Savage on in Dallas?

[loathesomeshrub]

30. I just googled

http://www.petitionspot.com/petitions/Bring%20Michael%20Back

Michael Savage was taken off the air in Dallas TEXAS AND NOW PEOPLE ARE LISTENING TO LIBERAL Tony Snow. We will not tolerate this crap, bring him back.We need him back on KILF, NOW!

Ha ha. They have 41 sinatures, and they need 1000. Since April 2004. Has anything changed?

[Demonaut]

31. probably, he spouts the most hateful rhetoric I've ever heard

he's far worse than rushbo

[Sugarbleus]

47. Obviously doesn't know what the term Fascist means....

Ask brother to look up that word for himself. He will see BUSH INC as the poster boy for this form of government.

[NecessaryOnslaught]

4. You've been reading? again?

what the hell is wrong with you? stop reading......now.

[gospelized]

5. IF KERRY’S ELECTED THE FIRST SET OF KIDS THAT ARE KILLED AT A LOCAL SCHOOL

you might remind him that the only attack in the past decade was on bush's watch.

[RainDog]

38. I thought the CIA backed the Chechen rebels

at least before they killed those children. Apparently Putin isn't too happy about this history, either.

at least that's what the "mole" at the White House says at

http://www.tbrnews.org/Archives/a1143.htm

It is common knowledge that Reagan played high stakes poker with the Russians, using the completely  phony Star Wars project to force them into an escalating hardware war that they lost. After the fall of Communism, the economy collapses and US oil interests moved right in to lay their hands on the potentially vital Russian oil fields. They operated via the CIA through Moscow street thugs who grabbed the properties when the state privatized them, looted everything in sight and got their friends in the US to loan them huge sums of cash…which they also stole and stashed in Swiss and Israeli banks. Putin came into power when the CIA’s Yeltsin drank himself into a permanent stupor. Putin, an ex-KGB man, is not stupid and is not a drunk. He stopped the takeover of Russian oil, broke up the Russian/US cartels and caused spastic colon in boardrooms all over the United States and England. The US could not tolerate well-heeled and generous friends of the Republicans being deprived of their profits so they embarked on a clandestine campaign to discredit Putin and get their hands back on the Russian oil-producing areas. The CIA ran the show. They overthrew the government of Georgia and put their man in power and moved on Azerbaidschan and Cechenia. To make a long story short, it turns out that the CIA  supported fully the Chechen leader that was directly responsible for the Russian school massacre. They have a lovely habit of doing such things. After all, the CIA killed Allende in Chile and replaced him with their man, Pinochet, who slaughtered God knows how many Chileans. The point is here that Putin found out about our official but clandestine support of this monster and to say he and his people are angry and determined to put a stop to any future adventurism of this kind goes without saying.

[crickets]

48. holy crap

:grr:

[thanks jon]

41. can't be said enough

asleep at the switch.
thats when you will here it was Billy Bobs fault.

[gospelized]

42. yeah i love that argument

it was bill's fault because it happened 9 months into W's admin.

but it was still bill's fault when the first one happened only 3 months into his.

[thanks jon]

44. guess it really is the kool aid

[doubleplusgood]

54. most mass school shootings in "Red" counties

So, we've been having school shootings for years, now, and it seems that they are almost always in rural/suburban, "red" counties.

[theorist]

6. Either he's a multimillionaire bubble boy or he hates himself.

I don't see why he can be upset that you hate bush*. Maybe "hate" is too strong for you, but not for me. I was about to go on a rant here, but decided against it.

Try to make ammends. Avoid the temptation to rub it in, when in a couple years, the country is much better off (under Kerry, of course). Do you know why he loves shrub so much? Does the boy king make him feel safer, or is it the cowboy hat?

[loathesomeshrub]

8. He's right - I do hate him. I hate him bwecause he is too stupid to be

president and he was elected anyway. I hate him for all the bad things he's done that we see that they don't.
My brothewr's self employes, doing well but he's not rich. We're Arab Americans - maybe he feels the need to overcompensate? I don't think he watches much news, but maybe more Fox than he should. And he's heard the lies and believes them. That's all I can come up with.

[Fear]

7. shake hands and make up (but make sure you tell him he's wrong afterwards)

[loathesomeshrub]

9. I don't think so. I think I compared him to a freeper scum. OOPs.

[Fear]

10. whahahahaha, I know I know - it's just so tempting and freepo's are so

easy to piss off, actually they already get pissed off when you say you are a democrat and your next sentence starts out with Bush.
Actually what's more fun is to try and pretend to be a freeper and bring up all of this stuff *like the bioshield* and throw up these ridiculous things about how it helps the country etc. etc. - I've had some really go -what-? And start touching reality again.

Being more insane then they are helps.

Some food to much on:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=2519613

[loathesomeshrub]

15. And I've actually had a "friend" as well as my brother tell me to

"think for myself" This makes me insane! DU didn't change me or my mind! I went looking for DU when I was going crazy listening to what was happening and was so glad to find rational people who hadn't bought into the lies and who thought like me and who wouldn't try to shut me up whenever I had a thought or comment.
They are the ones who need to stop listening to the lies and think for themselves

[Fear]

55. Seeking for the truth. That's something they do not do. They are SHEEPLE!

So stay sane, never stop questioning anything that they tell you, NEITHER FROM THE DEMS!

[Booster]

12. Wait until after the election and whoever wins try to makeup

with your brother. Bush nor Kerry will be president forever, but your brother is forever in good times and bad. I've given up and am not speaking to a couple of friends, but a brother is special and needs to be forgiven down the road. Let things cool off.

[dressleft2]

11. bummer

You know my Dad is the same way as it relates to his liking bush. He is so far gone and the reasons he likes the guy are ridiculous. He said something to my brother about Kerry intentionally shooting himself so he could get a purple heart. Bizarre.

Anyway. It's really too bad that public schools failed conservatives and they didn't learn to read and also have no desire to take the time to learn the truth about the issues. One of my sisters is gay and my conservative parents and other brother and sister-in-law basically have already voiced their concerns about supporting the "Marriage Protection Act." Just sad. They don't realize what they're doing.

Joel

[loathesomeshrub]

13. My son is gay, and my brother is pretty much verbally a gay basher.

He doesn't know about my son yet. He wants him to know but we've kept it from him. I would love to throw that one over at him and see what he thinks of that.
As to making up with him, well of course I hate that this happened, but I think I'm inclined to wait for his apology.

[Skittles]

26. um

I think your son should tell his uncle; nothing makes homophobic people start to think rationally than when they actually KNOW someone who is gay - especially FAMILY.

[loathesomeshrub]

32. I am thinking the same thing.

[3113]

34. coming out to homophobes doesn't always work out, family or not.

Proceed with caution.

[loathesomeshrub]

35. My other brother knows - but his wife is reasonable, and I think

she helped. I just really don't want it getting back to my dad who is pretty set in his ways and would not understand. Now he and my mom don't like Bush. She like me can't stand to watch him when he comes on. But they are catholic and pretty conservative in a lot of ways.

[Behind the Aegis]

45. Family is a mixed bag of tricks

I am gay. Most people can tell, which doesn't bother me in the least. When I was outed to my mother, she didn't want me to tell anyone in her family because they are very "back-woodsy" people. I told her sister, who was upset because I didn't tell her when I lived with her for a summer taking care of her when she broke her back. She told me she could have shown me all the gay bars. My step-grandmother and I were having drinks at a casino in the Bahamas and leaned over and said, "I don't want to offend you but baby, I love you." I said, "OOOOOhhh, I am so offended...haha!" To which she added: "And, I don't care who you love." After my jaw hit the table, I just stared at her. She said she knew I was gay. I told her I loved her but don't tell my grandfather. She said OK, but about 5 minutes later said...."I already told him! Last night, I told him I knew you were gay and I didn't care what he thought and that I still loved you." She said my grandfather looked over at her and said, "He is my grandson, and I will always love him!" He is gone now, but I am glad he knew me. Recently my cousins find out indirectly, we never have mentioned the word "gay" but they ask about my partner and when we are planning to visit.

So, family can be tricky. I have heard many a scary story, but my family was changed. Many stopped voting for ANY candidate that said anything anti-gay. :) I know that I am beyond lucky! Perhaps, the same will happen with your family.

Brightest Blessings!

[loathesomeshrub]

61. Bless you!

[Skittles]

36. being gay is nothing to be ashamed of

being an intolerant asshole is

[mike_c]

14. don't worry about it....

I haven't talked to my brothers for more than a decade-- they're all fundie deep-fried repigs who probably think that shrubya is too liberal but at least he's the lesser of two evils. I don't miss them one bit. Truthfully, I haven't thought about any of them in years, let alone entertained any desire to contact them. I have three brothers and I swear I could never tell which one had custody of the single brain cell they apparently divide amongst themselves on a time-share basis. They are lizards that walk upright. I think my mother might occasionally read DU, so hi Mom-- don't expect me to visit the 'bros back east anytime soon. No surprise, huh?

[loathesomeshrub]

17. That's so sad. We moved closer to my brothers about 9 years ago, 4

hours away, adn I've really enjoyed being able to visit. This one brother is ery opinionated, but he's been generous too, and this is so sad

[mike_c]

29. I was a bit glib...

...because I don't feel any sense of loss regarding my family estrangement, but I apologize for perhaps seeming glib about your sadness. Truely, my circumstances are not sad-- my brothers and I have virtually nothing in common beyond a shared history of family dysfunction. I wish you all the best in seeking an accomodation with your brother that you can both live with. :hug:

[Lydia Leftcoast]

19. LOL

"I swear I could never tell which one had custody of the single brain cell they apparently divide amongst themselves on a time-share basis." :7

[sleepyhead]

60. I loved that too

And am adding it to my vocabulary - I know a couple of families that fit that description!

[LiberalAndProud]

16. I am so sorry.

I thought about being a smart-ass and just about added "that you have a stupid brother", but though true, it doesn't help.

I can just about guarantee that he's been listening to every vile word that comes out of Michael Savage's mouth. I have never heard such uninterrupted vitriolic hate-speech. I am astounded that he has found an audience at all.

Your choices are slim to none ... agree to disagree and never talk politics again. (And try not to gloat when Kerry is elected and starts fixing the mess * has got us into.)

What is this country coming to? Intelligent discourse is shouted down before it can begin. Has political conversation always been this way? I do remember reading about fist-fights errupting when people gathered at the public square to read the news, so maybe ...

[soothsayer]

22. No biggie. YOu can always get another brother.

Ok, you can't, but don't worry, these things blow over.

[loathesomeshrub]

23. I don't know. It seems that repukes are nastier than we are?

We at least try to be nice?

[3113]

18. I know what you mean

It is mind boggling to me that anyone could interpret the statement "Please Protect My Civil Liberties" as heckling. Your brother obviously has no respect for freedom of speech, and does not grasp the seriousness of such activities.

Telling you to stop reading shit and think for yourself is pathetic. Sounds like he needs to start reading, but obviously that is not going to happen. As the saying goes, you can't talk rational to irrational people.

A few weeks ago my brother kept making ridiculous statements, anti-Kerry and pro-Bush. Sounded like his total exposure and knowledge of the world was coming from the vile demented Limbaugh.

I told him that anybody who supports Bush is a moran that doesn't have a though of their own. He stormed out and haven't heard from him since.

[Nordic]

21. Hey, I know how painful that can be

It's happened in my family, too.

It's happening all over the country.

[loathesomeshrub]

25. Thank YOU George W!!!!!!!

[Skittles]

24. call a truce with him and agree not to speak about politics

don't give Bush the power of breaking up your family

[fob]

28. THE FIRST SET OF KIDS THAT ARE KILLED AT A LOCAL SCHOOL BY ISLAMO FACISTS

And if that happens with assault weapons that bush* refused to continue the ban on...?

[loathesomeshrub]

33. Oh but he said he'd support it - It just wasn't brought up again

By the way, why didn't the demcrats do it?

[thanks jon]

37. Ask him if its unpatriotic

to vote for the other guy. Leave all else out. If he says yes.
..... whatya gonna do... let him think about it.

my sympathies. Let the bent be bent. dont get mad.

I'm calling out all my fundy frinds. They got it locked in that if anything bad happens its because of your soft head. Not.

[The Minus World]

39. Verbal Fratricide

I feel for ya. I've heard it all, too:

"I tolerate dissent - only at the appropriate place and time. I believe in free speech, however, it should not be directed against someone I agree with. I take great enjoyment in seeing my enemies are heckled, though... because they deserve it."

"I refuse to take the thousands of innocent civilians killed during the U.S. invasion of Iraq into consideration, but I'll gladly blame you for any future deaths of kids, if a democrat gets elected."

A curious trait, common to most of these people, is that they're so stricken with egotism that they feel that every word they say is important enough to be capitalized.

One method I find effective is to maintain a cool, rational demeanor; allow the guy to have a melt-down. Then, once he's realized he's made a fool of himself - allowing his hatred of his political foes to overcome him - use that opportunity to drive your point home. Keep it logical and succinct.

[foreigncorrespondent]

40. I'm so sorry!

I don't personally know what it is like to have political differences with someone in the family (family I am in contact with are all left of the fence voters) but I know my partner does, and because of that, I know the kind of hurt this can cause.

My partners cousin is about to be shipped over to Iraq. Unfortunately, his father is a right wing Bush* fanatic, and really just doesn't get it. Maybe when his son is brought home in a body bag he will get it. And yes, I know that is sad to say, but unfortunately those who are brain dead and really don't know how to think outside of the black and white ways, don'tget it until something so bad slaps them across the head.

I will pray that you and your brother in-law find some sort of peace, so you can at least have the family relationship you have always had.

Yep! Bush* the uniter truly is pulling families apart!

[thanks jon]

43. I suppose he wouldn't appreciate,

having it pointed out that by his line of reasoning, if he voted for GWB in 2000 he is responsible for 911. Better not go there.

[lfs5]

46. he problem is HE made it personal--

My brother believes as yours does, and being here, it's obvious I agree with you. We trade emails--I send him everything I run across that I think might penetrate. A list of Bush flip-flops, the stripping of the nuclear sites in Iraq under Bush's watch, Bush's decision not to go after Zaquari(?sp?) before the war. (It might undermine his case for war with the American people. How cynical is that? How many have died because of this decision.) My brother just sends whatever comes to hand, because being a Bush supporter does not lend itself to critical thinking, and my personal theory is that these people know that and feel defensive as a result, so they lash out at any truth likely to penetrate their protective armor of unreason.

My suggestion, send him any material you want, and ignore any personal attacks he makes. Remember, he's just scared you might light the shadows and force the truth upon him. (None are so blind as those who will not see.)

You will not be better for refusing to share your truth because he does not want to see it, and knowing it IS truth, let his assaults bounce off that shining armor. He cannot hurt you with lies.

Remember:

If another says something hurtful, it is wise to ignore it;
if the words were not intended to hurt,
our resentment will hurt the innocent;
if the words were intended to hurt,
our resentment will reward the guilty.

Don't reward his actions. Be calm, be cool, be collected, and above all, persevere. Keep sending him whatever you consider it important for him to know. If he chooses not to use the information, that's his problem. Knowing you made it available to him is your victory, so push send and smile, you're winning with every byte!

[crickets]

49. I'm so sorry

Political discussion is all well and good in my family until I open my mouth; then suddenly certain family members start saying, "let's not talk politics!" I don't raise my voice or insult anyone, but for some reason my words are considered threatening, somehow "inciting" something, I don't know. Voices are rarely raised, but the tone of the words and the facial expressions involved in cutting me off hurt me deeply.

There used to be a time when we could discuss issues, have different opinions, air them, and move on. I don't know quite what happened - it seems to be happening to families and friends (to varying degrees) all over the country.

I'm so sorry about your brother. Maybe after some time where government officials aren't actively threatening the populace with terror alerts and dire consequences if we don't "vote right," he'll come around a bit. I hope so, anyway. Kerry won't give Savage near as much divisive material to work with unless he starts pulling it out of his... Give it some time, give the political discussion a rest (I know, *sigh*) and good luck. :hug:

[Nlighten1]

50. My brother and I went through this same thing...

He hangs out at Little Green Footballs and the like. I feel for you.

[wysiwyg]

51. My brother is a US Marshall - thorougly indoctrinated

Even though our family isn't particularly political, except for me, and lives in Texas, except for me, everyone else I talked to is supporting Kerry. I mentioned the Kerry to my brother and he lets loose a stream of vitriol, copied from the Bush play book, about how Kerry will abandon Iraq, screw up the war on terror, etc. It's good to know the anti-terrorism training he received, complete with pictures of and quotes from dear leader, did so much good for him.

My sister's a "born again" and she thinks Bush is evil and she even knew about PNAC! (Although she thinks the Zionists control Bush)

[AP]

52. It's easier to be for something than against something.

Why don't you tell him why you're for Democrats. Tell him about the tax code, about Democrats believing in helping people who work for a living, about believing that everyone is better off when everyone is better off, about how they don't use terror as an excuse to concentrate a lot of wealth and power in the hands of a few people, and about how they'd rather see the average person do better than an oil company executive.

[RaulGroom]

53. Dear Bro

Hey man, I certainly didn't mean to upset or offend you with that link I sent. I know we disagree about a lot of things politically, but the bottom line is, you're my brother and that's more important than some political bullshit in an election year. Sorry to have pissed you off; I won't send you any more stuff like that. Deal?

Love,

Loathesomeshrub

-------------

Sometimes loving your family means you have to eat a little shit when you don't deserve it. Sad but true.

[SemperEadem]

56. 99% chance that it will be a guy who looks like your brother

whose wife took the children and left him to divorce him that will go and shoot up a school.

[porphyrian]

57. But...I thought bush was a uniter, not a divider...

Sorry about your brother. Maybe he'll wake up one day and you guys can make up.

[info being]

58. He's your bro. Work things out after the election.

[Walt Starr]

59. I would have replied to all with the following

You are no longer my brother. As far as I'm concerned, my brother died today.

That's just me. I'm a curmudgeony old fart and have no time for this shit any more. Laf'es too short.

[loathesomeshrub]

62. Thanks to everyone's responses. I couldn't sleep last night

so before I went ot bed I sent him one last message.
"I can't believe where this got to because of people messing with our minds.
I am really sorry that you believe the things that you do. It makes me sad, and I think you are wrong about the whole thing, and you've been listening to Fox, Michael Savage and Rush Limpbaugh too much. Which is why it offends me when you tell ME to think for myself. I think they have brainwashed you.
But it doesn't mean that a brother and sister who love each other should break over a worthless bastard who got elected by accident and is lying to keep his job.
So I'm sorry I said FU if that offended you. Are you sorry you offended me?
I didn't send you that link to piss you off. I thought it was pretty powerful. Sorry you didn't agree. I thought the loss of our civil liberties might mean something to you - there's a lot of Republicans who will not be voting for Bush. Its ok, I know Kerry is going to be elected. There's enough people who are wise to Bush. So it really doesn't matter if you don't vote for him.
But we're a family. If you agree write back. If you don't then don't."

He sent a message back agreeing that we were family and it as fine. Notice I only apologised for the one thing, and threw in a lot more stuff. Maybe it will sink in!

[Trajan]

63. We have a standing family rule ....

No politics will be discussed ....

It will avail to nothing, and only lead to hurt feelings ....

So: drink the beer, eat the ribs, enjoy the dessert ....

But NO hectoring of your family ....

Some feel inclined to break the rule: but the wives kick in quick to break it up ...

[NightTrain]

64. "I'm a uniter, not a divider."

As they say in Mexico: Toro mierda!

[kerry-is-my-prez]

65. Sorry - but your brother has lost it big time...

My brother is a freakin' Repub. but even he has not gotten THIS nutso...