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Bluebear Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-17-04 09:59 PM
Original message
Woohoo! We're turning the corner! Oil over $55./barrel
SINGAPORE - The price of crude oil surged past an unprecedented $55 per barrel Monday amid continued uncertainty over production, high demand and tight supply globally.

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20041018/ap_on_bi_ge/oil_prices&cid=509&ncid=716
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Deja Q Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-17-04 10:00 PM
Response to Original message
1. Tick tock, tick tock...
Edited on Sun Oct-17-04 10:01 PM by HypnoToad
$5/gallon by August 2005

Not to mention the price of ANYTHING that's plastic, made from petroleum (right down to medical ointments and vaseline), and transport of materials. Not to mention food because we drive tractors and things to plant the seeds and harvest the stuff, not to forget petrochemical fertilizers.
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hatrack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-17-04 10:03 PM
Response to Original message
2. The economy is strong, and getting stronger!
Lather, rinse, repeat.
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fishnfla Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-17-04 10:06 PM
Response to Original message
3. while our president sleeps
for real, its past his bed-time
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Career Prole Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-17-04 10:06 PM
Response to Original message
4. And the oil company boys of bushco
rubbed their hands together and chuckled softly.
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The Velveteen Ocelot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-17-04 10:09 PM
Response to Original message
5. And watch inflation take off, just like in the '70s.
Edited on Sun Oct-17-04 10:31 PM by ocelot
Everything will be more expensive because virtually all products and services involve some kind of transportation. Heating and air conditioning and all forms of travel could be out of reach for some people. Most airlines are already struggling and could end up in bankruptcy because fuel is one of their biggest expenses, and it is now double what they budgeted for. Bankruptcy of any big airline (it's already looking bad for Delta) means thousands more people will lose their jobs and their pensions. This is really serious shit.

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stevedeshazer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-17-04 10:10 PM
Response to Original message
6. Got in line at the gas pumps behind a Hummer H2 today
When the macho doofus driving it pulled away, I saw his pump reading. Sixty-six bucks for a fillup.

http://fuh2.com/

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mmonk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-17-04 10:15 PM
Response to Reply #6
7. It proves the old addage,
a fool and his money soon part.
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951 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-17-04 10:21 PM
Response to Reply #6
9. Just curious Is it a crime to slash an H2 tires if you're never caught?
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BlueJazz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-18-04 12:11 AM
Response to Reply #9
14. Even though I'm an Atheist...
I believe that there is a special place in Heaven for those that
slash, maim, or burn H2's....
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Centre_Left Donating Member (129 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-18-04 01:08 AM
Response to Reply #6
15. He paid for it right?
So what's your problem?
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MadHound Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-18-04 08:57 AM
Response to Reply #15
20. The problem is that this person is wasting a scarce resource
A resource that is being paid for with the blood of our soldiers, and innocents in Iraq.

The Hummer is a vanity car. It carries less passengers than a van, hauls less cargo than most trucks or SUVs, yet burns gas at a rate that puts even other SUVs in a good light. Its only purpose is to boost the ego of those who drive it. In addition, it pumps a prodigous amount of pollution into the air, pollution that you and I get to breath every day, cutting down on our quality and quantity of life.

It is this type of wastful mindset that got us into this situation in the first place. If, during the seventies during the first big oil shocks, we had started developing alternative fuels, we would be facing what we're facing now. Instead, after a short dalliance with efficient, low pollution cars, we upped the ante with ever growing SUVs, consuming even more oil, until we now pay with both money and blood to fill up the tank.

Tell you what, for those out there with unneccessary SUVs, we should force those owners to leave a couple of pints of blood on the counter when they pay for a fill up. Perhaps people will start getting the message.
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Centre_Left Donating Member (129 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-20-04 12:14 PM
Response to Reply #20
28. Some points
Your point regarding vanity is understandable but but irrelevant since people have the right to purchase cars on the basis of vanity. It has no bearing on any political issue.

Cars that pollute excessively should be regulated and alternative fuels should be developed, on that we can agree. These issues are not related to the right of the driver to purchase the Hummer and not be harassed.

Your last point about Hummers contributing to the number of deaths in Iraq is simply propaganda. The government, in fact, has made precisely the same point about the war on drugs in its series of infamous public service ad's that argued that smoking weed contributed to international terrorism. You could simply substitute marijuana in your statement and claim:

"Tell you what, for those out there with unneccessary , we should force those owners to leave a couple of pints of blood on the counter when they . Perhaps people will start getting the message."

The government (and you) thus criticize an activity based on a policy over which the object of your criticism had absolutely no control. S(he) is suddenly supposed to change their way of life because someone in the White House decided, without their consent, to go to war in Iraq.

I am no logician, but it seems that you are arguing that every citizen has signed an implicit contract that they must alter their behavior to ameliorate the governmnent's misguided policies. Under that reasoning, the government can influence my choices as an individual simply by enacting legislation. If the government does not like the fact that I enjoy French wine, it can simply invade France on the pretext of seizing all of its wine. If someone else thinks drinking wine is a sin, they can claim that my habit is now supporting the death of our troops in France. Reductio ad absurdum.
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hatrack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-18-04 09:18 AM
Response to Reply #15
21. It's more likely that WE paid for it
You didn't hear about the $75,000 deduction for Hummers that was stapled onto the tax code a couple of years ago?

That's right, if you're a real estate agent or florist or in any other business that requires the supposed river-fording, mountain vaulting capability of the Hummer, you can buy one and deduct the cost from your taxes. In other words, you don't pay - we pay.
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stevedeshazer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-18-04 07:47 PM
Response to Reply #15
26. As long as you think it's okay
66 bucks. How much is too much?
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Fovea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-17-04 10:18 PM
Response to Original message
8. Welcome to the scarcity pricing model
The future is now.

So long, suburbia.
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moondust Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-17-04 10:58 PM
Response to Original message
10. How ironic.
Edited on Sun Oct-17-04 11:13 PM by Buzzz
My guess is that Bushco dreamed they'd easily conquer Iraq and bask in the glory and the rose petals, boost oil production way up so that a barrel would sell for about $20 by election day.

Apparently God had a different plan but George didn't have his earpiece in that day.
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Minstrel Boy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-17-04 11:23 PM
Response to Reply #10
11. Nah, I don't think so.
I don't think the White House Oil Boys are shedding tears about this. Their black gold keeps appreciating in value.
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moondust Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-17-04 11:44 PM
Response to Reply #11
12. Once you control the supply
Edited on Sun Oct-17-04 11:53 PM by Buzzz
you can raise and lower output at will to manipulate prices. Works for OPEC.
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DivinBreuvage Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-18-04 12:07 AM
Response to Original message
13. Got it on Saturday, regular for 1.97/gallon in Norton Ohio
Highest I've ever seen in my life.
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JohnyCanuck Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-18-04 01:23 AM
Response to Original message
16. A picture is worth a thousand words

Take a look at this graph of the price of light sweet crude. Oct 2002 to Oct 2004

http://quotes.ino.com/chart/?s=NYMEX_CLX4&v=dmax
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ProdigalJunkMail Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-18-04 01:26 AM
Response to Original message
17. sorry...not unprecedented
Edited on Mon Oct-18-04 01:28 AM by ProdigalJunkMail
in adjusted dollars the high for oil was over $75/bbl back in the late 70's and early 80's.





theProdigal
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JohnyCanuck Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-18-04 02:36 AM
Response to Reply #17
18. And if the Peak Oilers are right,$75+ is right where it's heading
Edited on Mon Oct-18-04 02:46 AM by JohnyCanuck
BBC Report on Peak Oil Conference in Berlin:

Is the world's oil running out fast?

<snip>

"If we price oil correctly," Mr Simmons says, "it could give us time to find bridge fuels, fuels to fill the gap between an oil economy and a renewable economy. But I don't see that happening."

The adherents of the peak oil theory warn the decline of world oil output will force oil prices higher for good, and that the knock on effects could be catastrophic.

"In my opinion, unfortunately, there will be no linear change," says Iran's Ali Bakhtiari. "There will only be sudden explosive change."

"The people who will be least affected will be the super poor, who already have no access to energy, and the super rich who do not care if oil is $100 a barrel."


http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/3777413.stm

Note to Mods. Mike Ruppert gives permission to reproduce the article below for non-profit purposes.


World's Seven Largest Economies (G7) Admit They Have No Idea How Much Oil Is Left - Issue Emergency Call for Transparency at DC Summit

A Challenge to the Flat-Earth, Abiotic Oil Advocates and Cornucopian Economists - It's Now or Never


by
Michael C. Ruppert

© Copyright 2004, From The Wilderness Publications, www.fromthewilderness.com. All Rights Reserved. May be reprinted, distributed or posted on an Internet web site for non-profit purposes only.

WASHINGTON, Oct 1 (Reuters) - Worried soaring oil prices could hurt the best global prospects in years, finance chiefs from wealthy nations met on Friday to try to work out what lay behind the surge and how to buffer the economic expansion.

Group of Seven finance ministers and central bankers met at the tightly guarded U.S. Treasury building over lunch and were to work through the afternoon before a dinner with Chinese counterparts that has currency reform on the menu.

The officials will set out their world-view at about 5:45 p.m. EDT (2145 GMT) in a communiqué sources said would include a call to bolster oil-market monitoring to make it easier to discern if scarce supply, hefty demand or market speculation lay behind crude's drive to record levels.

The answer to this question is critical.


It could affect policy responses big oil consumers must adopt -- higher interest rates to stem inflation or a renewed focus on finding new energy sources -- and may offer key information on how long the price rise will last.

On Friday, U.S. crude oil futures topped $50 a barrel.

RISKS RISING

"High and volatile oil prices pose a risk to the outlook, dampening consumer spending and company profitability," Britain's Chancellor of the Exchequer, Gordon Brown, warned on Friday. He said it was vital for the G7 "to improve the transparency and the efficiency of the oil market."

G7 sources said a document released on Friday by Brown laying out his calls for improved energy market data would form the basis of language on oil in the ministers' communiqué.

After the half-day formal meeting, G7 ministers will sit down with China for a working dinner billed as an historic chance to bring the Asian giant into the fold and discuss its plans to ease a peg of its yuan… to the dollar…

The G7 gathering comes ahead of weekend meetings of the International Monetary Fund and World Bank…

Ministers are seeking energy market transparency to discover if world oil supplies may be scantier than they thought in May when they urged producers to open the spigots…

Another G7 official suggested the rise in oil costs was rooted in such fundamental factors as over-estimated supplies and was not solely due to speculation.

There is "a recognition that oil resources are scarcer than was thought a few years ago," the official said. "We agree there is a need for more transparency on the potential supply of various areas."

If scarcity is the chief culprit, the oil price shock may not prove as temporary as hoped, the official said.
<emphasis added>

"WRAPUP 1-G7 finance chiefs mull oil before China meeting"
Reuters, October 1, 2004

OCTOBER 4, 2004: 0800 PDT (FTW) -- Oil has broken $50 a barrel. Financial pundits such as T. Boone Pickens have said that we will see $60 oil before we see $40 oil again (if ever). In the G7 and around the world from the Philippines, to Brunei, to Scotland, to New Zealand, to China, to Thailand, to Japan, to Britain, to the US, many nations are either urgently looking at and discussing impending economic collapse, blackouts and food shortages. Others are already experiencing blackouts, brownouts, power cutbacks, or projecting possible lethal power outages this winter. Economic concerns may very soon be pushed aside by issues of simple survival. China's food production has been plummeting for years and overall the entire planet is yielding less and less food which requires ten calories of hydrocarbon energy for every calorie eaten.

Two examples: In New Zealand, the news website stuff.co.nz reported on October 1 that the country's oil supplies were "on a knife edge". In the Philippines on September 25, the Manila Bulletin Online ran a story headlined, "Energy Chief: Gov't Working to Address looming Crisis". India has begun hoarding oil, paying above-market prices to create a "strategic petroleum reserve" like America's.

All this is happening with a current global population of six and one half billion, expected to exceed nine billion by mid-century.

For three years (and in many cases far longer) a group of dedicated men and women, recognized as being in the forefront of the movement to place Peak Oil front-and-center on the world's agenda, have endured intense resistance - personal attacks, bureaucratic "barricades," disinformation, and more - to convey one message and one message only: The peak of world oil production is at hand now. With it come the most serious questions ever to confront our species. Their names include: Colin Campbell, Kjell Aleklett, Jean Laherrère, Kenneth Deffeyes, Matthew Simmons, Richard Heinberg, Julian Darley, Barrie Zwicker, Ali Samsam Bakhtiari, Michael Klare, Adam Porter, Andreas von Bülow, Richard Duncan, Walter Youngquist, Jay Hanson, Marshall Auerback, The Electric Wallpaper film company, FTW's Dale Allen Pfeiffer, Stan Goff and me (among many others).

Recent statements by the G7 group of nations and other breaking news stories have now irrevocably placed Peak Oil on the table. The bottom line is that the G7 have admitted that demand has outpaced supply and that due to cooked books and secrecy, they really have no idea how much oil is left, or available for production (two different questions). Within months there will be no more important story on the planet. After that, and as the G7 must begin to offer explanations and answers for all mankind - let alone the soon-to-be anachronistic financial markets - we will be there, dogging every announcement with our research. And we will be demanding honest answers.

In various forms and degrees, panic may ensue. Resource wars over Peak Oil and scarcity began officially on September 11th 2001 and they are now proliferating through a multitude of "proxy" wars from Southeast Asia, to the Caucasus, to West Africa (Nigeria and Equatorial Guinea among others), to Georgia, to Chechnya.

As FTW has always insisted, the principal objective of these Peak Oil activists was to get to this point of admission sooner rather than later; openly, rather than in secret, so that all of the human race, especially that majority not concerned solely with stock portfolios, net profits, share value or return on investment could have a say in a debate which will assuredly impact everyone's chances for survival and, most importantly, the future of all the world's children.

I hope I speak for all of us when I say that whatever we have endured, it was worth it.

We were right and this can no longer be ignored. We did it. We got Peak oil on the table and we did it before the 2004 US presidential election. Now the next question is: Will either of the candidates mention it before we vote? To do so would instantly commit the entire planet to begin looking "transparently" in one degree or another for options based upon more than economic and financial considerations. As Colin Campbell, founder of the Association for the Study of Peak Oil and Gas wrote recently, "This is the end of economics."

It is my belief that the G7 already has a good idea of how dire the situation is, and are well into discussing "options" which they don't want the rest of us to know about.

For all those critics who charge that there is an abundant supply of abiotic oil, or oil produced ad infinitum from the earth's mantle we ask, "Where is it?" They have argued that we Peak Oil activists have all been shills for oil companies seeking profits and for markets seeking greater gouged returns. The G7 has just admitted that the world economy is threatened today, not tomorrow. How does it benefit oil companies or markets if no one can buy their goods and services, or if there is no power to use them with? Now is the time for these critics to produce their vast limitless energy resources, because the G7 has just admitted that everything's falling apart. (As if we hadn't noticed.) That's what these "critics" argued would happen when the time came: there would be some magic switcheroo, and a new energy source would be unveiled.

Traditional economists are cornucopians: they calculate as if markets were magical sources of goods, with no ecological limits of any kind. Oil scarcity does not exist for them because they ignore it. Abiotic oil advocates believe that petroleum can be created without ancient biomass, and that it exists in terrific abundance at depths feasible for massive extraction. Oil scarcity does not exist for them because they deny it. Both groups dismiss Peak Oil at the peril of the world community, and in doing so they protect the disastrously naïve public confidence in this doomed system - a confidence expressed in lucrative stock prices, mortgages, and futures. Perhaps these "flat earth" economists and abiotic oil partisans should shift their attacks from the Peak Oil advocates to the oil companies whose share value, it seems, they have been (wittingly or unwittingly) protecting. For those who state that throwing money at the problem will solve it, how long were you all - especially pundits like Daniel Yergin - planning to wait before proving that you were right? How many people are to die in how many wars and how many are to freeze or lose their jobs before you show the rest of us this magical energy or this limitless oil you have been assuring us was there?

One cannot materialize a hot dog in a bank vault no matter how much money is there. The earth is a bank vault and we are all collectively locked inside it.

Show us the oil! People are dying now. The G7 has done everything but state that this is just the beginning unless more oil is found. Remember that it can take three years to bring a new oil field (once found) online. Don't attack us anymore. You have said there is an easy solution. Produce it for us all, even for yourselves. For you are not immune to what is coming. We have tried to warn even you. As FTW's energy editor Dale Allen Pfeiffer once wrote to me, "Peak Oil will defend itself quite nicely."

Put up or shut up.

One simple fact has never changed. Before oil can be produced it must first be found. Global oil discoveries peaked in 1964 and have been declining for 40 years. M. King Hubbert predicted the US oil production peak to occur 40 years after US oil discoveries peaked around 1930. He was right. Last year not a single field of 500 million barrels was discovered (for the first time since the 1920s) anywhere on the planet. The world uses a billion barrels of oil every eleven and one half days. We are now roughly 40 years after the peak of global discovery. This simple arithmetic has never changed. The outcome hasn't changed either.

China, in a desperate attempt to secure oil, is looking to build a pipeline across Burma to the Indian Ocean, thereby avoiding the increasingly dangerous and volatile Straits of Malacca and South China Sea (Asia Times, Sept. 22, 2004). China is also rushing to build a pipeline from Kazakhstan eastward through Central Asia from the Caspian basin, across hostile and expansive territory, some of it close to regions occupied by the US military in Kyrgyzstan. The US has been encircling China militarily since September 12th 2001. China is also cold calling on countries from Iran, to Saudi Arabia, to Venezuela, to West Africa offering large payouts for any oil it can get. More than two years ago FTW predicted this as we described China as the "endgame" of Peak Oil. Please see:
http://www.fromthewilderness.com/free/ww3/092502_endgame.html.

These developments come even as it is apparent that Russia is only going to build one pipeline from Siberia eastward and it will serve Japan, Korea, the Philippines and possibly Malaysia - instead of China. The world's second largest oil importer is projected to have more trucks and cars than the US by 2030. Its economy is still growing at about 7% a year in spite of power shortages and blackouts in Shanghai and elsewhere, which have slowed production at American, Japanese and Korean-owned plants full of outsourced labor. Like its geostrategic and economic competitors, China is desperate for oil. These are not FTW's words. Why don't you report that, Lou Dobbs?

As the Straits Times reported on October 2, 2004:

'It's the attitude of the Myanmar government. Now they agree to have discussions. Previously, they refused,' Prof Wang told the media, suggesting that Beijing had put the pipeline on its drawing board.

'China's need for oil is great and urgent. Any pipeline, any route, would be beneficial.'

Almost every nation is now in a scramble for energy. On Septmeber 14, as reported in the Independent, Tullow oil, one of Britain's largest oil companies, warned of blackouts and heating shortages this winter. Why? The North Sea fields are drying up faster than a pair of swim trunks on a hot summer day. A Times of London story the same day warned of power cuts this winter, along with shortages of heating oil. These developments prompted Britain's Chancellor of the Exchequer Gordon Brown to warn the G7 on October 1 that oil prices were a threat to global economic "recovery" (Reuters). Isn't it amazing that the financial guys never talk about survival? They only talk about growth and recovery. That's why economics and the current financial paradigm need to go the way of the Dinosaurs and Saber-toothed tigers almost immediately.

As we have said from the start, and as I conclude in my just-released book Crossing the Rubicon: The Decline of the American Empire at the End of the Age of Oil, we will change nothing at all and we will come, collectively as a species, to a sad and miserable end unless we first change the way money works. That, and nothing less, will make a sizeable difference in the outcome.

Michael C. Ruppert
October 3, 2004

www.fromthewilderness.com/free/ww3/100404_we_did_it.shtml

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Bluebear Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-18-04 01:48 PM
Response to Reply #17
22. Oh OK, the pain in our wallets is all imagined
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ProdigalJunkMail Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-18-04 06:33 PM
Response to Reply #22
24. never said imagined
just not unprecedented. Why are you trying to change what I said? Do you just want to have a little verbal sparring? I don't think you are prepared for that on this topic...as evidenced by the twisting that you have already begun...

theProdigal
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Bluebear Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-18-04 06:38 PM
Response to Reply #24
25. deleted
Edited on Mon Oct-18-04 06:53 PM by plastic_turkeys
deleted
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JohnyCanuck Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-18-04 08:45 AM
Response to Original message
19. kick n/t
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ArkDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-18-04 02:12 PM
Response to Original message
23. Oh GOD, please, please let there be more bad news!
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PatriotGames Donating Member (896 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-18-04 07:48 PM
Response to Original message
27. DON'T WORRY ABOUT IT!
Everything will be just fine. Would you care for some kool-aid?
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