Dear God: Sy Hersh reveals more wrenching details in Iraq:

[hlthe2b]

from his 10/8 talk in Berkely:
HERSH: I got a call last week from a soldier -- it's different now, a lot of communication, 800 numbers. He's an American officer and he was in a unit halfway between Baghdad and the Syrian border. It's a place where we claim we've done great work at cleaning out the insurgency. He was a platoon commander. First lieutenant, ROTC guy.

It was a call about this. He had been bivouacing outside of town with his platoon. It was near, it was an agricultural area, and there was a granary around. And the guys that owned the granary, the Iraqis that owned the granary... It was an area that the insurgency had some control, but it was very quiet, it was not Fallujah. It was a town that was off the mainstream. Not much violence there. And his guys, the guys that owned the granary, had hired, my guess is from his language, I wasn't explicit -- we're talking not more than three dozen, thirty or so guards. Any kind of work people were dying to do. So Iraqis were guarding the granary. His troops were bivouaced, they were stationed there, they got to know everybody...

They were a couple weeks together, they knew each other. So orders came down from the generals in Baghdad, we want to clear the village, like in Samarra. And as he told the story, another platoon from his company came and executed all the guards, as his people were screaming, stop. And he said they just shot them one by one. He went nuts, and his soldiers went nuts. And he's hysterical. He's totally hysterical. And he went to the captain. He was a lieutenant, he went to the company captain. And the company captain said, "No, you don't understand. That's a kill. We got thirty-six insurgents."

You read those stories where the Americans, we take a city, we had a combat, a hundred and fifteen insurgents are killed. You read those stories. It's shades of Vietnam again, folks, body counts...

You know what I told him? I said, fella, I said: you've complained to the captain. He knows you think they committed murder. Your troops know their fellow soldiers committed murder. Shut up. Just shut up. Get through your tour and just shut up. You're going to get a bullet in the back. You don't need that. And that's where we are with this war.

http://www.tinyrevolution.com/mt/archives/000172.html#more

This is just so wrenching; so demoralizing; so devastating. I just don't know where to start..... Those soldiers that witnessed these atrocities will never recover--nor will the Iraqi people who have seen our most horrific side.... God help us all.

[venus]

1. Tears. Anger. n/t

[Disturbed]

2. Rumsfeld ordered prisoner held off the books.

Rumsfeld ordered prisoner held off the books.
Iraqi terror suspect hidden from International Red Cross
By Jim Miklaszewski
Correspondent
NBC News
Updated: 7:08 p.m. ET June 16, 2004

Pentagon officials tell NBC News that late last year, at the same time U.S. military police were allegedly abusing prisoners at Abu Ghraib prison, U.S. Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld ordered that one Iraqi prisoner be held “off the books” — hidden entirely from the International Red Cross and anyone else — in possible violation of international law.

It’s the first direct link between Rumsfeld and questionable though not violent treatment of prisoners in Iraq.
The Iraqi prisoner was captured last July as deadly attacks on U.S. troops began to rise. He was identified as a member of the terrorist group Ansar al Islam, suspected in the attacks on coalition forces.
Shortly after the suspect’s capture, the CIA flew him to an undisclosed location outside Iraq for interrogation. But four months later the Justice Department suggested that holding him outside Iraq might be illegal, and the prisoner was returned to Iraq at the end of October.

That’s when Rumsfeld passed the order on to Army Lt. Gen. Ricardo Sanchez, commander of U.S. troops in Iraq, to keep the prisoner locked up, but off the books.

In the military’s own investigation into prisoner abuse, Maj. Gen. Antonio Taguba said efforts to hide prisoners from the Red Cross were “deceptive” and a “violation of international law.”
Pentagon officials claim it’s entirely lawful to hold prisoners in secret if they pose an immediate threat. But today, nearly one year after his capture, he’s still being held incommunicado.

More... http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/5226957/

[0007]

9. Some day a photo will appear of Rumsfeld doing time at the Hague

What interesting looks on the faces while Rummmy lies!

[Media_Lies_Daily]

3. Holy crap.

[knowbody0]

4. shame shame shame on us

none of us is without blame - these things are done in our name

[Stew225]

5. Just remember to

support our troops! People deify them with those ribbons and wouldn't believe this story if it went mainstream which, of course, it never will.

This republic is racking up such bad freaking karma that I'm afraid for my children!

[hlthe2b]

6. This needs to be read: please keep it bumped....!

[nostalgicaboutmyfutr]

7. i grieve for this country.... eom

[Mojambo]

8. I'd imagine this story sounds awfully familiar

to Vietnam veterans.

[TahitiNut]

23. Yup.

:(

[Jacobin]

25. It's a goddamned REPEAT is what it is

:-(

[ocean girl]

10. thank god for Hersh!

[Nlighten1]

11. Holy shit...

This is criminal.

[donco6]

12. I've suspected this for a while.

We're told on the news, "XX insurgents were killed in a mortar/helicopter/missle blah blah attack today". But how do we know what those people were? I'm sending this story to everyone I know.

[Rose Siding]

13. "Just shut up"?

I understand it would be dangerous to get all up in anyone's face over this, and Sy's compassion is undeniable. But how about a call to a Senator? or a Congressman? Is nothing *really* the best we have to offer?

[LizW]

15. Some of these guys called Senators and Congressmen

and no one did anything. They all just kept quiet until the pictures of Abu Graib came out and then they talked about how awful it was that there wer a few "bad apples".

[Eloriel]

20. Exactly

They're all -- no, most of them -- a bunch of cowards. Expletive deleted cowards.

[rockymountaindem]

14. That reminds me of the execution of the Guardia Civil

in For Whom the Bell Tolls. When I read that it seemed like such hatred and murder could only be generated by a civil war. I hope that I'm not wrong.

I wish I didn't have to believe this sort of thing, but the author is well respected, to say the least. It seems credible.

[RaleighNCDUer]

21. Seems credible? Who in the hell would feed him this story if it

wasn't true? And why?

This is more than credible. It's the same stuff that the Swift Boat Liars are saying didn't happen in VietNam. When some people, not all, but some get ultimate power without accountability, this will happen. Every time.

[Eloriel]

22. It usually takes one more ingredient

Demonizing and making our "enemy" sub-human. Not worthy of respect, not worth the slightest common decency and respect and dignity. You have to make them slightly less than fully human to go to war with them in the first place. After that, it's all downhill.

[Zhade]

16. Jesus.

And I don't even believe in him.

This is why we'll NEVER "win the peace", Kerry win or no Kerry win.

[Technowitch]

17. God, this is so sad...

Once upon a time, I used to be proud of my country and what it stood for.

Now we have become the very thing we hate.

[Tsiyu]

18. When our troops are finally allowed back in the US

there will be hell to pay. There isn't a firmly entrenched "Establishment" as there was in the sixties.

These guys owe no allegiance to the greedy, bloodthirsty, heartless dinosaurs sending soldiers out to do their evil dirty work. Our troops will not be satisfied until Republican heads roll. Wait and see. "Everything hidden will be revealed." And I will enjoy every severed head....

[wishlist]

19. ABC news tonight had segment about all the 'collateral' killings

I caught part of a segment on ABC news tonight where they brought up the issue of coalition forces attacking areas where they know there are innocent civilians including women and children who will be killed. The official reply was basically that U.S. policy is that as long as our troops have identified more insurgents than innocent civilians in an area, they will go ahead with attacks knowing that innocent people will get killed.

[Jacobin]

24. Viet Fucking Nam

I swear, this is EXACTLY like Viet Fucking Nam. I cannot BELIEVE my generation, after having been ground up in that goddamned fiasco has done it all over again. I cannot fucking believe it, even as I saw it unfold, the flag waving, the yippie yi yay, we're going to war, the media whooping up the war fever, our politicians either jumping up and down demanding war, or slinking around KNOWING it was going to be a fucking disaster, or parsing words. Jeezus this is criminal and heads of state need to be on trial in the Hague.

Absolutely revolting and disgusting. All the while the little yellow ribbons reading "support our troops" adorn cars containing people that have no fucking idea what the war or the ribbon means.

[knowbody0]

26. you feel like i do

from then to now. dude, this is our legacy. it is WE that gave this world to the new kids. how did this happen. we knew what unlawful war was, what it did to the kids fighting it, the attrocities etc.
we are definitely creating terrorists all over the world. bunch of shit. i bleed

[BeFree]

29. Shut-up and finish your tour.

Good advice. The soldier could be the next John Kerry. Come home, go to congress and spill the beans.

Kerry is showing amazing strength. You know he knows what's going down in Iraq, but knowing the future good he can do, he keeps it pent up inside, lest the truth freaks out the sheeple ruining any chance he has to set things right.

I couldn't do it, I'd let it all hang out and get killed doing it. Kerry deserves to be my president.

[Vadem]

27. Believe me, Sy is a real investigative journalist.......

My late husband went with Sen. Kerry to El Salvador investigating the Iran Contra fiasco.....I took many calls at our home from Sy asking to speak to my husband. My husband felt he could not speak to Sy, given his position in the U.S. Congress.

On edit: spelling

[many a good man]

28. Why Sinclair now? Ask Sy Hersh

Is the Sinclair controversy another Rove preemptive attack against new stories of abuse?

Why NOT make this election about the Vietnam War!? We won that fight last time, didn't we? Iraq looks like more of the same -- let's do it before they starting drafting and body counts go into the tens of thousands...

[Lorien]

30. Sickening

send it to the Bushbots you know. Ask them how they can possibly justify this.

[Lisa]

31. I really hope that soldier survives his tour intact ...

"I said, fella, I said: you've complained to the captain. He knows you think they committed murder. Your troops know their fellow soldiers committed murder. Shut up. Just shut up. Get through your tour and just shut up. You're going to get a bullet in the back. You don't need that."

I wonder how many officers/soldiers have suffered little "accidents" so far? And -- now we've got all those covert "security firms" (mercenaries) who are kinda-sorta working for the PNACers (but don't tell anyone, wink-wink). Perhaps the Vietnam vets could correct me on this, but I don't recall that sort of thing being quite as prominent before. What if a soldier sees what they're up to and threatens to tell -- is there anything to stop them from icing the witness and blaming it on those pesky insurgents? And the higher-ups can't or won't do anything, because, well, those security guys are not officially there, classified assignments and all that.

[dansolo]

32. Remember Jessica Lynch's rescuers

Didn't most of her "rescuers" die of various causes soon afterwards?

[CBHagman]

33. Sickening.

I'm completely speechless.