Understanding Saddam

[realFedUp]

I know it will raise some hackles
to even try to come to some understanding
of Saddam and how he ruled but...

Let's end the groupthink and examine
why Saddam was successful ruling Iraq
for so long. As we are experiencing,
it's a difficult proposition.

I just want to start the discussion
because I'm not an expert. Please fill
in the gaps.

Iraq:

Oil rich, divided by different and opposing
Muslim religions and surrounded by countries
interested in strengthening their own religious
sect's power in Iraq. Saddam ruled with an
iron fist, killing many who opposed him and his
sect. Women did have more rights to work and
to schooling than under more religious rulers.
Saddam did business with the world, including
Halliburton under Cheney even under U.S. sanctions.
Electricity, water and sewers worked.

....that's all I know...fill me in.

[russian33]

1. Also, had nothing against Christianity...

...Tariq Aziz was a Christian, and I believe there was even a synagogue in Baghdad?

This is similar to the group-think of USSR back in the day. I was born in USSR and lived there till 1991, and it wasn't ALL bad.

[realFedUp]

2. Yeah, we tend to do that in this country

Black and white thinking...so easy.

[lumpy]

14. Interesting

I met a Russian who said the same thing about conditions in Russia; it wasn't all that bad. Compared to other mid-east countries, Iraq under Saddam was more secular in social, religious and economic areas. While Saddam ruled with an iron fist, the chances for a more democratic society was possible due to the fact of freer and open education. Time would have proved that Iraq would become a competitive member of the world community unhindered by religious restraints. Us military action against Iraq has hindered the progressive evolution toward democracy in Iraq. The US military using the same repressive methods that Saddam used will not accomplish this goal.

[russian33]

15. People sometimes are very surprised when I say that, but..

..we had free healthcare, free education, apartments were very cheap, public transportation system was excellent...There were many pluses

[DrWeird]

3. The US installed him and supported him...

through much of his career, including the "gassing of his own people." If you're going to prosecute that then you better be willing to prosecute his American collaborators.

[realFedUp]

4. hmmmm...didn't know that.

thanks. Was he trained by the CIA too?

[DrWeird]

5. He was supported by the CIA.

I'm not sure how much training was involved.

But they helped him assassinate the Iraq president before Saddam rolled into power.

[realFedUp]

6. doesn't surprise me, but hmmmmm

[noiretextatique]

7. here's some information

Saddām Hussein 'Abd al-Majid al-Tikrītī (Hussein also spelled Husayn and Hussain; Arabic: صدام حسين عبدالمجيد التكريتي; born April 28, 1937 1) was President of Iraq from 1979 to 2003.

A rising star in the revolutionary Ba'ath Party, which espoused secular Arab nationalism, economic modernization, and socialism, Saddam played a key role in the bloodless 1968 coup that brought the party to power. As vice president under the frail and elderly General Ahmed Bakr, Saddam (see 2 regarding names) tightly controlled conflict between government departments and the armed forces at a time when many organizations were considered capable of overthrowing the government, and Iraq's economy grew at a rapid pace in the 1970s.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saddam_Hussein

i don't know how relable the source is, but it's a long article with lots of information. note the highlighted word above...perhaps it WAS a part of the saddam problem.

[realFedUp]

8. Thanks noiretblu for doing the work

I just saw another thread on Saddam here...
the tide has turned...more will question
why we really bombed a weaker country
and look into the reasons for what was
in place before.

[noiretextatique]

11. thank you...it's time for so many of us to stop spouting

the same stuff as the bushistas. i's like to know more about pre-bush, inc iraq.

[realFedUp]

13. from source: modernization of Iraqi countryside

snip-

After nationalizing foreign oil interests, Saddam supervised the modernization of the Iraqi countryside, the mechanization of agriculture on a large scale, and the distribution of land to farmers.5 He broke up the large holdings of the landowners and gave land to peasant farmers. The Ba'athists established farm co-operatives, in which profits were distributed in accordance with the labours of the individual peasant and the unskilled were trained. The government's commitment to agrarian reform was demonstrated by the doubling of expenditures for agriculture development in 1974–1975, a policy that Saddam largely spearheaded. Moreover, agrarian reform in Iraq improved the living standards of the broad strata of the peasantry and increased production, though not to the levels for which Saddam had hoped.

By focusing on the implementation role (often to the point of micromanaging), Saddam became personally associated with Ba'athist welfare and economic development programs in the eyes of many Iraqis, thus widening his original popular base of support while co-opting new sectors of the Iraqi population. Part of a combination of "carrot and stick" tactics, expanding government services forged patron–client ties between Saddam and his support base among the working class and the peasantry and within the party and the government bureaucracy.

[stellanoir]

9. you might want to check out

a book i heard about on WBUR's http://theconnection.org

In the second hour, the author of "The Fall of Baghdad" was interviewed. His last name was Lee (Leigh ?). He had befriended members of Saddam's regime before the invasion and was most insightful.

Saddam was despicable but the vast majority of the population was secure though repressed. Women often earned more than their male coworkers according to riverbend. She's now housebound and can't go out with multiple male relatives due to the high abduction rate. (http://riverbendblog.blogspot.com)

Spend a half of a rainy day reading her blog and her archives and you'll garner a much clearer picture than the media will provide you.

For further info click on the Where's Raed link on her blog and go back to the archives of pre invasion Iraq and you'll get more info on life under Saddam.

[realFedUp]

10. Thank you...I do get a lot out of reading riverbend.

[realFedUp]

12. kick for the nightcrew.

[noiretextatique]

16. kick

:bounce:

[secular_warrior]

17. Saddam was a wannabe Stalin and failed business partner of the BFEE

He was a secular dictator who looked up to Josef Stalin. Saddam had no religous or anti-Western agenda, he was simply a ruthless man who enjoyed power and wealth, like any other dictator.

But most of all Saddam was essentially part of the Reagan/Bush Family Evil Empire, just like Osama bin Laden and countless other bad guys they prop up.

The Republicans are like the mafia. Bad guys like Saddam and Osama are their business partners. When the bad guys attack the us it is like a mafia business deal gone wrong.

This idea that Saddam was some sort of Islamist or supporter of Islamic terrorism is complete right wing propaganda to justify the invasion and occupation of Iraq. Saddam was one of their boys, and when he didn't want to go along with the program they took him out.