So the chimp steals a line from Martin Luther King

[neebob]

and no one in the press notices?

I'm referring to the line about climbing the mighty mountain and seeing the valley of peace below. Until yesterday, I thought he was tryng to sound like Ronald Reagan, as did the person who started the thread about flubbing his Reaganesque line.

Then someone said they thought it was from Martin Luther King's speech on the eve of his assassination. I did some googling, and found there's a line in his "I have a dream" speech about letting freedom ring from the mighty mountains of New York. Hmm, interesting.

http://www.americanrhetoric.com/speeches/Ihaveadream.htm

THEN I googled some more and found a news story about a mass for Dr. King in Atlanta on January 18, 2003, where the archbishop said:

"He gave that life gladly because he had looked beyond the mountain, and seen something there that was a worthy reward for all he had done-the valley of peace, where all live as children of God, who is a loving Father."

http://www.georgiabulletin.org/local/2003/01/30/b

Who thinks this is a coincidence? Did I miss all the other threads about it?

[peacetalksforall]

1. I just heard him say it - just listnened again for the third time

I thought it was a code phrase - some here on DU have picked up things from the gospels and have provided context with versions of interpretataions.

My interpretation of him saying it = they probably thought they had to work in the word 'peace' somewhere, so why not this way - mislead those born agains once more.

Well, it doesn't work for me - he is the WAR and KILLING Resident. And those born agains also love the WAR and KILLING. Just as long as the people killed are adults, not fetuses.

[TexasSissy]

2. I have heard on TV that * had some phrases in there that were codespeak

for his religious base. I wouldn't know what they were, of course, not being a religious fanatic.

[neebob]

3. Someone will have to explain to me what codespeak is

I'm not sure I understand. Is it using phrases from the Bible? If so, that's hardly a code - unless you mean those of us who haven't memorized the Bible would have to find the phrase and read more to discover what it means. Bibles aren't exactly hard to come by.

Why does it have to be this mysterious thing? What if there's a simpler explanation, like he stole the line from someone else? I think it's pretty obvious that's what he did ... or I should say his speech writer did, and then sort of like failed to realize how foolish and hypocritical it would sound.

I doubt Bush had any idea where the line came from. He probably just thought hot damn, this is gonna be my big famous line that they'll use years from now, when they talk about what an awesome kick-ass president I was.

[charlie]

7. Of course it was coded

We've done a lot of BLINKETYBLINK hard work together over BLINKETYBLINK BLINKBLINK the last three and a half BLINKBLINKBLINKBLINK years. We've BLINKBLINKETYBLINKBLINKBLINK been challenged, and we've risen BLINKETYBLINK to those challenges. We've BLINKBLINKBLINKBLINKBLINKBLINKBLINKBLINK climbed the mighty mountain. I BLINKBLINKBLINKBLINKBLINKBLINKBLINKBLINKBLINKBLINKBLINKBLINK see the valley below, and it's BLINKBLINKBLINKBLINKBLINKBLINKBLINKBLINKBLINKBLINKBLINKBLINKBLINKBLINK a valley of peace... BLINK.

Morse coded.

[Sugarbleus]

18. LOL LOL....

Very well put!!!

[H2O Man]

15. There are "signals" or "codes" that

certain "secret societies" use. Most are about as sophisticated as Ralph Kramden and Ed Norton's Raccoon Lodge. The United States has had its share of these societies, from the KKK to the Masons, that are not quite as funny as the Honeymooners TV show.

Bush belongs to a growing number of extremists in the Christian fundamentalist movement, that have secret words that are known only to them. They tend to be about things like dividing people into groups such as the "saved" versus the "unsaved." Light and dark, good and evil. They believe that we are in the final days, and that they are able to communicate religious messages that heathens and pagans will not be aware of.

When Bush talks about "spirit," "freedom," "looking into people's souls," "(s)he's a good soul," etc, these are but a few of the code words.

The mountain-top reference indeed reminds us of King, but we have to remember where Martin got it from. Moses was leading his people to the Promised Land. He got his message on the mountain (Sinai) and led his people people through the wilderness, and died within sight of that Promised Land. This is a common occurrence in bibical and other religious/esoteric writings: the visionary prophet brings the "saved" group to the edge of the Garden, but doesn't make it, and Aaron takes over.

Was Bush sending a secret "coded message" with this mountain statement? You better believe he was. I say this not because I am concerned about the beliefs any person has that are between him/herself and God. I am even comfortable with people who have their lives guided by religious beliefs and insight. I am confident that if people study religion with an open heart and an open mind, they will see that we are all "God's children." That precludes the "us" vs "them" that Bush is participating in. I am concerned with what terrible things people who foolishly believe they are "saved" are willing to do to those they decide are "unsaved." So it's good to be aware of Bush's code-words.

[neebob]

26. In order to believe Bush was speaking in code

you have to (a) believe the code exists and (b) know what's in the mind of the speaker. Okay, so you believe the code exists. You're making some pretty big assumptions about the mind in question. I think there's a much simpler explanation.

[H2O Man]

27. I think if you read

the Rolling Stone interview with Kevin Phillips, author of American Dynasty, you will find that there is no question that Bush has been using this code for years.

[neebob]

35. Thanks, I read the interview

It was good. I'd buy American Dynasty, but I've had more than my fill of the Bushes already. I'm bored with scumbags. I can't even force myself to finish Fortunate Son.

I thought the line about Bush being the acknowledged leader of the religious right was interesting. I don't doubt that he's spent a lot of time with them and learned how, if not to walk their walk, to talk their talk.

I still don't think it's a code, exactly. It's more like a shared vocabulary, words and phrases Bush uses because they appeal to a certain group of people - people he doesn't even like, according to Howard Dean.

Wasn't it Dean who said Bush elbowed him at some governor's function and said, "I hate those people"?

Here's a link to the Kevin Phillips interview for anyone who hasn't read it:

http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/story/_/id/5938884?

[H2O Man]

37. I have had

a couple members of the extended family "recover" from fundie brain-washing, and when I was employed as a psychiatric social worker, had several clients also recovering from the brain-washing. They are taught that these are special code words for identifying others with the same belief system. So, when you call it a "shared vocabulary, words and phrases," you are correct .... because that is one definition of a code: a system of words and phrases used to represent assigned and often secret meanings.

[neebob]

38. Really?

Because I was raised Mormon, which is one of the biggest cults ever as far as I'm concerned, and no one ever taught me anything like that. Or maybe they didn't really want me because they knew I was inherently bad.

Which is not to say Mormons don't have code words, because I'm told there are special words and/or signs for getting through, uh, security on the other side. But that's only for those who have been through the temple. You'd think if any group was going to have everyday code words for average people, it would be Mormons.

Seriously, this code thing is just a little too out there for me. I don't think it's quite as sinister as you and others have made it out to be.

[H2O Man]

39. I have not said it was "sinister"

and haven't seen anyone else on here use that term. I do have concerns about the influence that certain sects of Christianity have on our political life. I think that many people have noted that the far-right Christians would like to have their interpretation of the bible have a role in our daily lives. It includes things ranging from a federal judge putting a statue of the 10 commandments in a federal court house, to some Bush administration officials appearing to have their views on religion influence American policy on the Middle East.

Words, of course, do have meanings ... as we see with "code." Or your misuse of "sinister." Hence I will not say I find it strange you think the Bush religious interpretation is "reassuring." You no more said that than I said "sinister," and it would be deceitful of me to attribute a word to you that you didn't use. Right? But I will say that I find the Bush religious doctrine worthy of both attention and concern.

[neebob]

40. I share your concern about religious influence

and I know you didn't use the word sinister. That's my word. That's how it seems to me when people - not you, necessarily - say they're speaking in code, like they're sending secret messages designed to exclude the rest of us.

[H2O Man]

41. They are speaking in code.

That isn't in question. It's a fact. How you or anyone else feels about it is an individual thing, an opinion. Some obviously find Bush's use of code words to be reassuring. Others find it cause for concern. And still others may find it to be sinister. But the range of individual opinions does not change in any way the fact that Bush uses code words that are directed to convey a specific message to a specific audience.

[BeHereNow]

19. Knowing Scripture

does not a religious fanatic make.
Knowing scripture as a Christian though
alerts you to false prophets.
Bush is a false prophet.
How do I know?
Cause I know scripture, but I am not
a religious fanatic- I am a Christian.
BHN

[beyurslf]

4. I am pretty sure it is from MLK and I was thinking it was his final speech

the night before he was murdered.

As far as codespeak.... Does anyone not notice the Biblical references? I would hardly call that a code.

(At least the RW managed to say Clinton used color of ties as codes. Can't we come up with something better than Biblical references?)

[neebob]

5. No, that was the one where he said he'd been to the mountaintop

and seen the promised land but didn't think he was going to make it there with the Memphis sanitation workers he was addressing. And I only know that because I went looking for transcripts of his speeches.

I haven't found any obvious Bible references, either, searching on bible + "mighty mountain" and then bible + "valley of peace." But then I'm not one of those people who has the Bible memorized. I do own one, but I can't think of anything I'd rather not do than flip through it looking for a particular phrase. I have to rely on the internet.

[H2O Man]

9. "I've been to the mountaintop....."

Indeed this is a line King used in his final speech. In fact, he used that part of the speech many times when he was becoming anxious and depressed. King was under extreme pressures on April 3, 1968, and he had initially not gone to make his presentation. He sent his best friend, Ralph, (who he called "David") in his place. There was a raging storm, and King did not expect a large audience. But hundreds came. Ralph called Martin, and told him to come over. Martin came and spoke off the cuff. Ralph would later write about how he and the others were upset, because they knew Martin was under terrible pressure, but they knew the speech was especially powerful that night.

It's a common bibical reference, of course, dating back to Moses. But you are right that Bush was comparing himself to King. He thinks he's a Moses, bringing folks to a "promised land." The only thing that he is correct about, in a sense, is that he "isn't going to get there with us," not as president. He'll be a spectator.

[crickets]

10. Agreed

That was what struck me when I heard Bush's mangled version of the phrase. Re-reading the entire text of MLK's speech and seeing the twisting of the context (social change in the civil rights struggle vs what's happening now with the neocons) in those words made me a bit sick to my stomach.

http://www.americanrhetoric.com/speeches/mlkivebeentothemountaintop.htm

[LizW]

13. That's the speech I recalled

When Bush mentioned the mountaintop. I must admit, it gave me a little shiver. The final speech has always been examined for its indications that Dr. King had a premonition of his death.

I wondered briefly if Bush was sending out some message to his followers that he "might not get there" with them.

[BeHereNow]

20. In this instance- trust me it was code

for OT prophecy about Israel and the promised land.
Moses was shown the promised land from a mountain
that God took him to. He died before he could lead
the Israelites there, but Joshua continued for him.
If you want to get the full picture read the Book of Joshua-
compare a biblical map of the area to a modern day map.
You'll get the picture and understand why the FP used
that particular phrase- the fundies and messianic Jews
were frothing over that line, trust me.
And today, Pat Robertson lead "pilgrims" to Israel.
4000 of them and declared,
"I see the rise of Islam to destroy and take the land
from the Jews and give East Jerusalem to Yasser Arafat.
I see that as Satan's plan to prevent the return of Jesus
Christ the Lord."
Unfortunately Pat missed other parts of the bible-
especially the part about no man knowing the hour
of His return, and that it is a wicked and adulterous
generation that looks for signs and wonders.
These people are being deceived and they truly
believe they are to bring about the rapture
because God can't handle the job himself, I suppose.
(Translation: They are stark raving mad.)

Every crusade in the history of the world has used Joshua
as a roadmap for genocide of the "un" chosen.
Including the crusaders who exterminated the indigenous
peoples of the Americas.
BHN

[DeepModem Mom]

6. My theory: It's the Gospel according to Peggy Noonan --

an attempt at a Reagan moment for W, which he blew.

[TahitiNut]

8. Agreed. It's classic Noonan Kool-Aid.

[Radio-Active]

11. Bush and MLK couldn't be more opposite

I'm reminded of how Bush insisted people not call him "George Bush Jr." in the 90's, but instead the more awkward "George W. Bush".

If "Junior" was good enough for a man of MLK's stature and historic proportions, why wasn't it good enough for Bush?

[salin]

12. Wouldn't that be something...

after his crass joke at the celebration honoring the Rev King at the White House.

[DebJ]

14. I thought he meant he was leading us into Armegeddon

[Carla in Ca]

16. It is about as pathetic as

Laura Bush comparing him to Roosevelt and Lincoln in her convention speech. The only good thing is she didn't phrase the sentence right and came out wrong.
The line was...
Lincoln didn't want to go to war. Roosevelt didn't want to go to war. And neither did my husband.
So, of course, our response was...he didn't!

[Name removed]

17. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[neebob]

25. Well, aren't you nice

I do enjoy getting my shit straight. Funnily enough, the closest thing to Bush's statement is what Archbishop Donoghue said at the mass for Martin Luther King. Which is worse: stealing a line from a eulogy to MLK, or comparing himself to Moses? I can't decide, though I have to admit comparing himself to Moses is much more insane.

[tom_paine]

21. That is the most hypocritical thing I have ever seen

Unsurprising, howeever, considering the Orwellian nature ofthe Busheviks.

[BeHereNow]

22. Not to the fundies or the messianic Jews-

There is nothing hypocritical about it to them.
It is essential to fulfilling end time prophecy.
Got's to mow down them heathens first
and move all the Jews back to Israel-
THEN Jeebus, who ever he is, can come.
Personally, I'll stick with Jesus, cause I have NO
idea who these people are expecting- they are
certainly not reading the same bible as me or the Christians
I know.
BHN

[Jane Austin]

23. The reference is from Deuteronomy.

It's code to the Evangelicals that he's one of them.

[Stephanie]

28. There you go

Do you happen to know the exact Scripture?

[Jane Austin]

32. Try Deuteronomy 1-4. There are references in Revelations, too.

n/t

[VOX]

36. Good catch, janeaustin!

Like your DU handle!

cheers -- :toast:

[gypsyangel]

24. Nothing pisses me off like

a piece of neocon white trash who obviously has no respect for other people's culture, stealing one of the world's most intellectual and spiritually sound man's words of hope and no one calling him on it. They're all such sheep they thought it was original. I caught that during the debate and I was freaking out. I have a feeling MLKJ would be quite perturbed at this, knowing the beasts lack of respect for all.

[Bandit]

29. I have climbed to the top of the mountain

and seen the promised land. A land where people are not judged by the color of their skin but by the content of their Character.
I think that was how it went. At least pretty much so. It is not verbatim but you get the gist I think and yes this was right before he was assassinated.

[H2O Man]

31. You've combined two speeches.

The part about people being judged not by the color of their skin, but on the content of their character was from the "I Have A Dream," from 8-28-63. King had been delivering a planned speech, and then suddenly began to speak from the heart -- totally unprepared remarks -- and the line you refernce was the third of the five "I have a dream that ...." statements (I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will be judged not by the color of their skin but by the content of their character. I have a dream today!)

The final speech was his most apocalyptic sermon. Delivered in the Bishop Charles Mason Temple in Memphis, King again delivered a speech that was partly planned, and partly spontaneous. The last two paragraphs still send chills up my spine when I listen to that man speak: "And then I got into Memphis. And some began to say the threats, or talk about the threats that were out. What would happen to me from some of our sick white brothers?

Well, I don't know what will happen now. We've got some difficult days ahead. But it doesn't matter with me now. Because I've been to the mountaintop. And I don't mind. Like anybody, I would like to live a long life. Longevity has its place. But I'm not concerned with that now. I just want to do God's will. And He's allowed me to go up to the mountain. And I've looked over. And I've seen the Promised Land. I may not get there with you. But I want you to know tonight, that we, as a people, will get to the Promised Land. And I'm happy, tonight. I'm not worried about anything. I'm not fearing any man. Mine eyes have seen the glory of the coming of our Lord."

Among other things, the next day, King would tell friends how he wished he could retire to a farm and live a slow-paced, peaceful life with his beautiful wife and children. At the same time, federal officials were pulling strings to have any black fire- or policemen moved away from stations near the Lorraine Motel. An US Army IU was perched on a rooftop, overlooking the motel. And while an common criminal was being set up as a "patsy," running silly errands, an off-duty Memphis police officer was preparing to kill Martin. Unreal.

[Bandit]

33. Yes you are absolutely correct... I was going only by memory

and being the old fart that I am, it is not nearly as good as it used to be.. thank you

[H2O Man]

34. My memory requires

that I look things like this up. Last week on another post there was a question on some of King's speeches, and I got out one of my books. I found that re-reading his speeches was more pleasurable than reading a lot of what is printed these days.

[kodi]

30. with any luck he can pen a famous letter from a jail cell at the hague

.