I do not support the troops...

[kerrywins]

2 points:

- military is voluntary
- george bush would be powerless without his military



i'm so disgusted with the way things are going in this country....

[Name removed]

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[Name removed]

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[kerrywins]

3. if peace means...

walking away from your "duty" then I say bring on the peace.
There are so many innocent civilians being murdered over there....how can someone with a conscience go through with doing that?

it just brings me to tears sometimes when I hear all these stories of innocent people and babies being killed...

[Bunny]

7. Oh horseshit.

On edit: folks, let's not feed this. It's hardly worth it. Seriously.

[Texasgal]

4. What;s wrong with you????

You don't support our troops? Nobody....and I mean NOBODY deserves to die for a worthless cause. What a horrible thing to say, I hope your statement bites you in the ass!

[Joanne98]

5. That's perfect.....

I do not support the troops (title) and kerrywins (screen name) That will look great when you google it. Did you think of that yourself?

[noiretextatique]

6. "support the troops"

is a phrase mainly used by people who really do not "support the troops" enough to make sure no more of them are killed. the best way to support the troops is to get rid of bush, inc.

[UdoKier]

8. The military is NOT voluntary.

First, many of the regular miltary joined when Clinton was president, and never dreamed a psycho president would send them to invade countries willy-nilly. They HAVE to go, or face jail time. Also, many whose enlistment is up have been force to stay for an extra 6 months or a year.

Second, a huge number of troops are national guard. Normally they are used in domestic disasters. Doubtful they expected to go to Iraq. They are also subject to jail if they refuse to go.

Third, many of them are poor, living in communities with no other opportunities.

Last, they are 18, 19, 20 years old. Did you have good judgment at that age? I didn't. I was a kid.

Don't you know this stufff?

[geek tragedy]

Sure she does.

There's just a little more going on here.

[kerrywins]

12. i dodn't know that...

so...if you're in the military and all of a sudden you were to be sent to Iraq...and you refused to go based on prinicple...you'll goto jail?
you can't "quit" the military?
i had no idea our military was run so dictatorship style....

[sangh0]

18. yeah, right

we believe ya!

[Name removed]

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[kerrywins]

23. i didn't know that...

i don't know everything.....

[Name removed]

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[kerrywins]

26. so...because I didn't know that

means I don't know anything?

[UdoKier]

31. That's a bit harsh.

I've had lots of friends who didn't know that. When I told them I hated the Navy, they'd be like "why don't you just quit?".

I had a vague idea before going in, but it is a lot more dictatorial than a lot of people think.

I actually liked the structure and discipline, though. I just hated the work I was doing (cleaning bilges and scraping hulls- TORTURE, all night watches...ZZZZ)

[Texasgal]

35. My point...

If your gonna come on a political discussion board... ATLEAST KNOW WHAT THE FUCK YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT!!! GEEEZ!

[johnnie]

47. To be honest

A lot of people come on here to learn.
I think in this case (I could be wrong), the op really didn't mean to be intentionally disrespectful.

[Texasgal]

28. Then WHY POST?

Why post your thoughts on something that YOU OBVIOUSLY know NOTHING ABOUT? That's just plain foolish!

[kerrywins]

34. because I didn't know that

means I didn't know anything about our troops in Iraq? and whats happening there?

[UdoKier]

37. I believe you made your post innocently.

Unfortunately the meme of "Our troops are all volunteers, so who cares?" is a favorite right-wing talking point to deflect criticism of how many have been unnecessarily killed.

It could be seen as insensitive to those who have lost loved ones too.

I support the troops, but I DO NOT support what they are being forced to do in our name.

[Texasgal]

42. Perhaps it was innocent....

However...terribly INSENSITIVE!

[geek tragedy]

38. No, if you don't know that disobeying orders is illegal, it means that

you don't know ANYTHING.

Either that, or you can be President if your last name is Bush.

[kerrywins]

40. i didn;t know quiting

was considered disobeying.

[geek tragedy]

46. Seriously, how old are you?

[Djinn]

52. disobeying ILLEGAL orders isn't though

[UdoKier]

27. Of course. As former Navy I'll tell you.

The first thing they tell you when you join is that you are no longer your own person. You are THEIRS until your contract is up - and in some cases they can make you extend that.

Also, as a soldier/sailor, you are no longer protected under the Bill of Rights of the constitution, you are under the jurisdiction of the Uniform Code of Military Justice. What you can and can't do is much more strictly regulated (that's why you seldom see active duty people making public and overt partisan statements). And the punishments can be quite severe.

You ccan claim "conscientious objector" status, but I believ you will still be disciplined and receive a dishonorable discharge - not nice on a resumé. (I believe this is the case - please correct me if I'm wrong.)

[Name removed]

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[WoodrowFan]

15. my thoughts exactly. (NT)

[Zero Division]

44. Indeed.

I have only seen genuine anti-troop sentiment from the knee-jerk Kerry bashing contigent...making this..well, you said it.

[prolesunited]

10. Why don't you peddle that crap

somewhere else. The majority of us here DO. It's the CINC and the rest of his minions that we have problems with.

[DrWeird]

11. Hey, go easy on the troops.

They're just following orders.

[Disturbed]

25. Supporting the troops

If people really supported the troops they would march en mass on every street in every town and city and demand that the troops be brought home ASAP!

The war on Iraq is illegal. The Occupation is illegal. The US Puppet Govt there is illegal. Supporting this war and the Occupation is supporting an illegal operation.

[Texasgal]

30. Ummm...what is anti-war protests?

eom

[AlCzervik]

13. Do you have a clue as to how many lower income people sign up

so they can pay for their college? A lot of them.

[Dark]

14. Hmmm. I see your points, But consider mine:

1.) Yes, the military is volutary, but you should be thankful it is that way. The only other option, militarily, is to have mandatory service for all citizens. Which means, judging by your pic, you would be in the military right now, over in Iraq.

You should be thankful that they are there in the military, if, for no other reason, that you are not.

2.) True, Bush gets his power from the military, and the civilians. He would still have power without the military, as long as he had the American civilian populace, at least, tolerating his presidency.

Ask yourself this:

-Would you rebel if you thought that the military would not be there to stop you? Would you not protest because the military is on Bush's side?

[jcappy]

16. Not Voluntary!

The soldier's choice is about as voluntary as that of a prostitute. And both have similar social backgrounds.

Which is not to say i don't understand the occasional private thot in this direction given that we are the invaders and have superior tech. advantages. (Vietnam theatre: 55,000 soldiers die and 4-5 million Asians)

[partygirl]

17. the only way to support the

troops is to bring them home. I don't support them being in countries like Iraq. Kerry should just come out and say "Bring Them Home" I like that even better than "Bring it on" . I don't support the troops being where they are and doing what they are doing. I support bringing them home.

[Name removed]

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[progressivebydesign]

21. I support the troops!

I don't agree with the policy of our military under Bush's (so-called) leadership. He is using and abusing our military in this war in Iraq AND the forgotten war, Afghanistan. The military joined with honorable intentions, to protect and serve. Or.. they joined because American no longer offers breadwinner jobs or affordable education.

How could you not support the troops? Some DID want to go to Iraq, because they bought the rightwing bullshit that they were somehow avenging 9/11. But.. most are just doing a job they were called to do. I think of how many of our military are over there right now.. and how they'd like to see their families again.

[Name removed]

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[TrustingDog]

29. those troops are mostly just kids...

that bought into the glory of defending their country, yada yada, honor etc. That age old line the masters use for their own benefit to rape and pillage for profit.

They've been Had, they've been Used. They're dieing in horrific ways.

The ones that Like being Bush's hitmen I do not support, but the majority are just kids stuck in an impossible situation they can't get out of.

[blm]

32. Horsepoo. Tell the guy who can't find ANY job in the Bush economy

and no way could afford college that the military is purely voluntary.

Tell the guy who innocently believed the media told him the truth that our freedoms were under attack that he knew they were lying.

[TrustingDog]

33. right on. n/t

[LSK]

50. tell the guy who joined the national guard a few years ago

And now he is stuck in Iraq for over a year, leaving his wife and kids behind and his house is about to be foreclosed because army pay doesnt match what he was making in the private sector.

[Flammable Materials]

36. 2 more points:

I used to think like you did.

Then I remembered that:

* A good number of enlisted persons come from poor areas where the military is perhaps their only escape from a dead-end life

* Those who enlisted had no idea they'd be sent off to fight a fake war by a fake president

[Bush was AWOL]

39. That is rediculous!

I support the troops bc it is not their fault they are in Iraq following orders and defending themselves. Also, a lot of these troops signed up to be weekend warriors bc they couldn't afford to go to college any other way. Our troops are good people!

[ikojo]

41. Yes, the military IS voluntary, HOWEVER,

many poor and lower middle class kids join, not because they are all gung ho Rambo wanna be's, but because they have been sold a tale that goes like this:

You join the Army (or any branch of the military but most often it's the Army) and they will help you pay for college. Not all kids have parents who can afford to pay for college and not all kids want to be thousands upon thousands of dollars in debt upon leaving college.

You will see the world...most of these kids, including my brother who was career Army, have not had extensive travel experience because they came from families who did not take vacations.

Some kids may not even want to take the Army up on their promise of a college education, some join because they come from towns where the only employment opportunities are Wal-Mart or other service sector jobs and they KNOW they don't want to do that for the rest of their lives.

IMHO, there may not be a draft in the 1960s sense but there sure is an ECONOMIC draft. If there were no poor or lower middle class people then Bush (or any president) would not have a military.

As Michael Moore says in F-9/11..why is it that those who have the least in the US are often the ones asked to give the most?

[UdoKier]

43. It's only voluntary until you sign the papers, then you are THEIRS.

The movie "Private Benjamin" made light of that in a fun way...

[geek tragedy]

45. When people say "you're signing your life away" they ain't kidding.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

48. I support the peacemakers.

The troops volunteered. If they didn't know that they may be called on to kill people, then they sure as hell know it now.

I feel sorry for the poor sods, but I damn sure don't support what they're doing in Iraq.

"Just following orders" is what the Germans did.

And, yeah, I put in my four years and if ordered I would probably have gone.

That's why the like adolescents for soldiers.

[LSK]

49. support the troops - what exactly am i supposed to do ???

I mean what does this really mean?

I also notice that most "support the troops" bumper stickers are right next to dubya bumper stickers.

The only way I can support the troops is to vote for Kerry see he can get UN help and they can come home.

[goodhue]

53. bumperstickers

[goodhue]

51. Support Our Troops--Bring Them Home Now

http://www.bringthemhomenow.org/

[Moderator]

54. I'm locking this

As Extreme Flsamebait