Who's mostly to blame for Gore not being President today?

[Lone_Wolf_Moderate]

I've lumped Bush, Katherine Harris, and the SCOTUS together as one collective agent. The last one is the obvious Freeper choice.

[Melodybe]

1. Hands down the media, as I said before turn that shit off!

[slojim240]

33. Ralph Nader.

The media is second and American illiteracy is the underpinning.

[RevCheesehead]

2. uh...the Supreme Court?

[Bucky]

24. Also known as "SCOTUS"

SC of the US, don'tcha know

[RevCheesehead]

29. I know - I just think the SC should stand alone and take the blame

I keep getting disconnected when I try to post, so I'll try again


IMO, the Supreme Court is SOLELY responsible for the election fiasco of 2000.

It is their responsibility to uphold the laws of our land, and to be certain that civil rights to a free election are upheld. They did neither.

The judgment of the majority was to stop the recount. They should have called for a state-wide recount. They should have looked into allegations of fraud, the illegal removal of names (all proven by Greg Palast), and if necessary, called for a re-election/do-over (or Mulligan, if you prefer) for the entire state of Florida. At the very least, they should have clarified the standards for the recount, and declared that ALL CHADS (dimpled, pregnant, hanging) would be considered a vote. Double votes would be invalid.

The problem is, they didn't want to establish the standards, because that would have sent the entire nation into a spin.

[bemildred]

31. Yeah, like who else had the power and used it?

Done in the most cowardly way, too.

[TheFarseer]

3. It's funny to think about this election if Gore won

who would the repubs be running? How would Gore have responded to the 9/11 attacks? Would it have united the country or divided it as bush has done? I'm going to post my own thread about that!

[Hello_Kitty]

4. I honestly don't think 9-11 would have happened under Pres. Gore n/t

[ochazuke]

5. More whacky votes

Bush won fair and square? I wonder if those who voted that way know that, when finally counted (was it by the LA Times?), Gore got the most votes no matter what standard was applied (Florida).

[Zorbet55]

6. Cheating in Florida

The exit polling clearly enabled an early announcement that Gore had won Florida. Stacks of paper ballots in Dade Co and other places were taken and repunched to reflect an overvote or illegal double vote. This is why we are a bananna republic today.:grr:

[lefty75]

7. the public

for not protesting like crazy! We can't let something like that happen again.

[Senior citizen]

16. There were protests.

But the mass media didn't cover them, and the police were prepared to brutally suppress them.

It would have taken a total revolution.

[EEgrad2003]

35. yeah

I'm glad I wasn't the only one thinking that. Something this important and WE SHOULD have demanded a recount. I just wish Gore would have fought harder about the recount.

[tedzbear]

8. You forgot: the Democratic Congress

In 1986 they made a deal with the Repugs to approve Scalia's nomination to the Supreme Court with zero nay votes. If you ask me, THAT is what cost Gore the Presidency! I wonder what the Democrats got for making that costly deal?

[951]

9. I'm suprised the Supreme Court isnt an option n/t

[AZCat]

11. SCOTUS...

SCOTUS stands for Supreme Court of the United States.

It is listed as part of choice #1.

[jpgray]

10. He was 'Gored' for two years by the media

I wish I were kidding. It's documented on the Daily Howler. For example, compare the coverage of Bush's eerie reliance on the 'I-quit-oops-now-I'm-back' Karen Hughes to that of Al Gore and Naomi Wolf.

But it's impossible to look at something so complex as a campaign and say 'yup--there's the problem'. Many or all of these were probably a factor. Except the last one. :P

[PeaceProgProsp]

13. And he wasn't a good enough candidate to fight it back.

I picked the media, but I think many other candidates would have done better.

I think Kerry could have won pretty easily in 2000.

[izzie]

12. People who did not vote for him.

We all knew Bush had been in Govt a few years in Texas and it was a part time job,ran the state into the red, and he never ran a business that was not bailed out by father's friend and his NG record smelled and people thought he would make a good President over a man who had spent 20 years learning something about our Govt. people wanted Bush and got him. Not that I think the SC played fair.We all know Gore would have gone after the terrorist.People do not look into what these men do and will drag into the job with them. We knew the Vice-President would sell us out to some corp. he had done that when he left the govt. the first time. It was all in front of the people.

[K-W]

14. The media were the fundemental problem. Right on downt

to covering up for it afterwards. The problem isnt that there are dangerous people in government, there always will be, the problem is that our system isnt working to hold them at bay.

[hiphopnation]

34. "System"

Which "system" are you referring to? When the system charged with dispensing justice is held hostage to corporate and political interests it makes the job of the system charged with keeping the flow of information open and objective virtually impossible. The freedom of one system begets the freedom of the other. The corruption of the former is a true death knell to democracy, IMHO.

[Senior citizen]

15. SCOTUS, et al, but primarily Clarence Thomas

When he headed the EEOC it became completely discredited.

When he got on the Supreme Court the same thing happened.

If my job was to end terrorism, I'd just appoint Clarence Thomas to be head terrorist. Terrorism would be completely discredited within a month or two.

[BlueEyedSon]

17. So far, 2 freepers

[PATRICK]

18. Mis-underestimated Bushco

The various fraud and prepared coup strategies of Bush Inc. are not listed here, but their most visible and audible assistance came from an ever more discredited media which lied, slanted, and went to the mat for every desire of the Bush campaign while openly hating and lying about Gore. The overall effect of nominally honest journalists is dismally incompetent, operating with full confidence under a pall of Gospel errors in getting the story wrong or simply not getting it at all- and not bothering to while Net amateurs of various persuasions run circles around them. The domination of the national forum and muddied disinformation of the people is something they themselves simply cannot take responsibility for- and a mask behind which hides an ideological enclave of very few controlling owners.

They reflect and often cheer on all that is dangerously wrong in the country. And lie with as much impunity as Bushco itself.

[Swamp Rat]

19. SCOTUS

In the end, they are the ones who pulled the plug on democracy.

[gulliver]

20. Clinton.

The entire ability to Gore-ize Gore came from Clinton's turning our eight years of success in the White House into a Republican punch line. It is hurting Kerry too. Nothing is going to wipe that smirk off of the Republican face until Bush seriously wrecks our country -- and he is working on that.

Clinton made the Republicans feel superior. There is nothing more crazy than a Republican who feels superior. They show every sign of letting Bush completely escape his record. Huge deficits, an unnecessary war, a bumbling, world-hated liar in office? That's nothing compared to Monica.

[hiphopnation]

36. If Gore had

the presence of mind (and was one fifth the politician Clinton was) he could have maneuvered the campaign out from under the negative aspects of "the blue dress" and used the positive things from the past 8 years (are you better off, kinda stuff) to his advantage.

It gave the republicans fodder, yes, but Gore and Company didn't recognize that early enough and nip it in the bud. Instead he distanced himself so far from Clinton and some of the positive things he could have used as return-fodder that it was sometimes hard to tell that they ever served together!

Supreme blame for 2000 gets laid at the feet of five supreme "activist" judges. PERIOD.

[hiphopnation]

38. It's Ockham's Razor

Pure and simple! Given ALL things in the race leading up to the vote...the media...Gore's lousy campaign...The "clinton" effect....AFTER the ballots were cast it was up to the courts to, eventually the most SUPREME ONE OF THE LAND, to make sure that EVERY VOTE WAS COUNTED. They didn't do that. They are to blame.

[Jokinomx]

21. He Cheated in Florida....

If Micheal Moore is correct with his facts from his book "Stupid White Men". Then..you can deduce that IF Bush hadn't cheated...He would not have won the election. It wouldn't have been close enough to worry about those issues. There would be No need for the chad controversy... No need for the absentee voters controversy, No need for Harris controversy, No need for the Supreme Court...

"IF" he hadn't cheated...but he did. His only hope in winning was to do whatever it takes to win... and he did...

So I blame * period. He is evil and should be tried for crimes against humanity.

My Humble Opinion.

[AntiCoup2K4]

22. SCOTUS, the BCE, the Mediawhores, the DLC

..in that order.

[Neecy]

23. hmmmm

There were a lot of factors, including of course Jeb and his crooked cronies, SCOTUS, the media and Gore's ineffective legal team in Florida. Gore himself bears part of the blame - I winced when he did that macho strut over to Bush before one of the debates. If it bothered me, and I was a huge Gore supporter, it probably bothered the swing voters as well.

I put a LOT of blame, though, on the spineless Democratic leadership who stayed silent during the recount. Bush had his barracuda-like surrogates screaming lies and nonsense during this whole period, while our milktoast leadership for the most part was nowhere to be seen. It absolutely infuriated me. It gave the media the perfect opening to whine that 'it's all gone on too long, people want this over' because there wasn't any opposition to this strong-arm election theft on our side.

[RevCheesehead]

30. I always wondered if Warren Christopher was the best we could do.

Maybe we mistakenly believed that the truth would win out.

But, you're right. The outrage, as per: F-9/11, was that the issue of the elections was brought to congress. The house passed a resolution, BUT NOT ONE SINGLE SENATOR would support the resolution. JUST ONE VOTE FROM THE SENATE would have brought it up for debate.

Cowards, one and all.

[Bucky]

25. All of the above

[Vickers]

26. Non-voters, and Joe Lieberman (eom)

[in_cog_ni_to]

27. Katherine Harris, the chimp & SCOTUS

Katherine Harris, Fucking wench that she is. :grr: Had she not purged 57,000 voters from the rolls....:grr: I HATE that strumpet! SHE should be hung by her fingernails! :grr:

[Cartooner]

28. ANSWER: THE SAME A$$HOLES WHO TRASHED DEAN

[hiphopnation]

32. Shocking!

I can't believe that people blame this on that easy, monolithic target "The Big Bad Media". Get off it! The blame for the debacle in 2000 can be placed squrely on the shoulders of five individuals. I think you all know who they are, but for those who don't:

[JVS]

37. SCrOTUS!

Basically all those who were happy not to count the votes

[nefarious]

39. The Repugnant Cons had a Plan prior to the Election

It was a modern day rewrite of Jim Crow.

Culpable: Jeb Bush, Florida Dept of Law Enforcement, State Police road blocks, poorly worded/ misleading ballots, purging voters who had their voting rights restored, and 20,000+ surprise votes for Pat Buchanan in Palm Beach county, and nasty lowlife Republican operative James Baker threatening people as though they were Saddam Hussein.

Get ready for FEVFBR (Florida Electoral Votes For Bush, Regardless) Part II

[hiphopnation]

40. You are talking about circumstances

BEFORE the election. Once the ballots were cast and the faintist wiff of funny business was in the air, lifetime appointees to the supposed non-partisan court benches should have seen the forest for the trees and demanded every vote be counted. They didn't. They are to blame.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

41. The DLC and their insistance on mediocrity.

The pursuit of the "moderates" led him to not having a clear message and the goofy media coverage of the way he dressed and the way he spoke and the crappola about "earth tones" and "alpha-male" rubbish.

Dumbya, for all his obvious stupidity, had a clear message. Repugnant as it was, and is, it was clear. There is no doubt, except in the KKK/Nazi wing of the republican party, that Bush is a rightwing conservative.

Gore, and now Kerry, are all over the map, trying to please everybody by taking no unambiguous positions. A simple question such as, "Are you a liberal?", should be answered with a firm "yes", rather than the mumbo-jumbo, "nuanced", maybe, kinda sometimes, blather that the DLC loves.

The result is that, in the eyes of the public, Bush comes off as "decisive" and Gore and Kerry come off as "indecisive", "flip-flopping", "vague", "non-committal".

Instead of being defensive about being liberal, they should shout it.

[hiphopnation]

43. Sure those are all factors.

Larger factors that are part of the indictment of our electoral system, writ large. The race shouldn't have been as close as it was and part of the blame for that MAY belong to the DLC. But more voters cast thier ballot for Mr. Gore. There was funny business in Florida and our court system (ON UP TO THE MOST SUPREME ONE IN THE LAND) FAILED us. You and me and every single American. Period.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

51. Well, I agree with you.

The Electoral College was a sop given to the south who felt threatened by the more populous north and which they saw as a way to protect slavery.

It should have been abolished long ago. The election of the president should be decided by the popular vote since He/She is elected to represent all of the people and states.

But, I'll stick to my assessment of the role played by the DLC. Everyone loves to blame Nader, but those voters were available to Gore if he had moved left instead of right.

[hiphopnation]

53. It's a big "if"

and we can "shoulda coulda woulda"'d the scenario 'till we're blue in the face. The simple fact of the matter is that all factors being what they were in the race itself, Gore won Florida by five different counting standards all of which the Supreme Clowns voted to halt.

EC? A disaster. Must go. Gore's campaign? Pretty lousy, should have worked at having his finger on the pulse of his base and not pandering to the DLC. Nader? Probably had some influence too.

But the fact of the matter is that Scalia, Rehnquist, Thomas, O'Connor and Kennedy all wanted Shrub in office. And the supreme court always gets what they wants. THAT'S what needs to be ended. 2000 is the only time in my life I've actually considered taking up arms and storming a building to oust fascists.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

55. The supreme court is the main reason I'm voting for Kerry.

On all other issues, I see him as much better than the boobinchief, but hardly what I would consider a flaming liberal.

But, the SCOTUS appointments are damned important, and I hope that if he is elected he will put up some true liberals and not fall the "bi-partisan" bullshit that he'll be faced with from the republicans and their DLC apologists.

[On the Road]

42. Goe Did Exactly What He Needed to Win

his early campaign was lousy, but he corrected it, made all the right decisions, energized the base, and won all the swing states.

The only thing he did not take into account was the series of events in Florida. A clear majority went to the polls that day to vote for Gore.

[hiphopnation]

44. I'm suprised that most DUers blame 2000 on

"The Media".

[mopinko]

45. who gives a f*&^

gore is not running. get your head out of your ass.

[hiphopnation]

48. LOL!!

Good one. Only the most unprecedented and shocking use of judicial power in our nations history; one that had a direct affect on the outcome of a PRESIDENTIAL ELECTION. Yeah...who gives a fuck. Why not just say "Get over it!"? Close enough.

BTW, I would be just as shocked if the tables were turned. Five "activist judges" voted to CEASE COUNTING VOTES. Doesn't matter which party it favors, it was unprecedented and deserves scrutiny and castigation often, and harshly. Dig?

[mopinko]

54. discussing the theft of the election

and beating up on al gore are NOT the same thing. i don't object to talking about it, and i sure as hell am not "over it". but talking about it in this vein- who is to blame, is just plain stupid shit.
talk about how kerry can win. and what YOU are doing to make it happen. hint- this little exercise does NOT count.

[hiphopnation]

56. I'm not beating up on Al Gore

I am discussing the theft of the election AND who is to blame (because when you talk about "theft" SOMEONE is to blame, no?) at THE SAME TIME so please spare me your pithy lectures. THIS thread is about the 2000 election not what *I* am doing to get Kerry elected. You weighed in with "who gives a fuck". I say "I give a fuck". But I don't have to turn off all other functionalities of my brain to do everything everything I can to get Kerry elected in November. :thumbsup:

On Edit: If anything I'm DEFENDING Al Gore. Luv the guy!

[mopinko]

57. theft is not the question of the poll

it is who is to blame for gore not being president, the theft being only one of the options. this kind of thread is a typical example of a democratic circular firing squad, and we need to cut it out.

[hiphopnation]

62. can't argue with you there

Circular Firing Squad is a big problem.

I'm just sooooooooper touchy about 2000. I do happen to feel that blame needs to be placed for the debacle (and the ultimate election of Bush) because it was a theft and the SCOTUS are accomplices.

I've made it my personal crusade to never forget 2000 and to always lay the blame squarly at the feet of those who deserve it.

[sr_pacifica]

46. Hijinks in Florida

Can't be the media because he won the popular vote!

[napi21]

47. I voted because of Gore's lousy campaign, because I well

remember watching that one debate where he kept sighing. At first I didn't know who it was, but when the camera switched to Gore, I almost croaked! I kept saying, STOP, STOP! Don'y you realize what you look like here! Between that incident, and the constant trying to change his image (and clothes) turned enough people off to throw the election so close it ended up in the SCOTUS.

Sure other things happened too, like the disenfranchisement, and the biased court, and Nader, and all the rest, but Gore caused some people to turn against him all by himself.

[Seeking Serenity]

49. I'm surprised no one has laid the blame on the anachronistic way. . .

the Constitution lays out how presidents are elected via the Electoral College.

Had the SCOTUS not ruled like it did, the Rpubs in the Florida Legislature would have merely selected its own electors to meet with the Electoral College in December 2000.

Don'cha think?

[hiphopnation]

50. Indeed.

I'm suprised that the majority of DUers (or at least folks who have taken this poLl) think it's soley the fault of "the big bad media".

[Redbear]

52. Im struck by the fact that it took ALL those factors ...

plus the EC system to beat Gore.

If the media had done their job it wouldn't matter that Gore's campaign was poorly run, he would win in a walk.

If Gore's campaign had been better run, Nader would have been no factor.

If Nader hadn't run, even if the other stuff happened, Gore would still win Florida (and a few other states) handily.

Even with Nader running, if Bush and Harris and the Judicial idiots hadnt stolen Florida, Gore still wins.

Even with Bush et al stealing Florida, it wouldn't matter if we didn't have the screwy EC system.

[rhite5]

60. Exactly

I remember being shocked that Gore so meekly accepted the Supreme Court decision -- a decision completely without precedent and ultimately unconstitutional. But I had already been dismayed that there seemed to be no outrage coming from the Democratic Party over the pretty obvious shenanigans that had been going on during the recount and the first reports about the disenfranchisement and harrassment of Af-Am voters.

Here the Dem Party had a candidate that had won the popular vote, the presidency of the United States was on the line, the Supreme Court issued an unprecedented decision and no fuss was being made. In retrospect now, that raises red flags for me.

[abcdan]

58. the people who were foolish enough...

to vote for Bush (or Nader or no one at all).

[otohara]

59. Media - Constitutional Crisis Mode

then all the other fucks in the BFEE - starting in Florida

[Bombtrack]

61. The media is a what not a who

Therefor it shouldn't be an option.

[hiphopnation]

63. And wadaya know...

it's "winning" in this pole. Truly baffling.

[billyskank]

64. None of the above

I mean, all of the above are partly responsible, but I place the most blame on the voters who didn't vote in sufficient numbers for Gore to make the Florida machinations irrelevant.

I mean, all that "I think Gore is better qualified, but Bush seems like the kind of guy I'd like to have a beer with" stuff blew my mind. There's two main things wrong with that:

(1) Bush isn't like you at all. He's an upper class toff, and he wouldn't be seen dead having a beer with you, and

(2) What the hell does the like-to-have-a-beer-with factor have to do voting for him for president? You should stick to having beers with the people you'd like to have beers with, and vote for people for president who you think would make the better president! Sheesh!

[The Blue Knight]

65. Where is "Far-left Liberals who voted for Nader in the first place."

That's who I place the blame on, because, had they been more loyal to Gore, President Bush would be "One-time Presidential Candidate."

[ElsewheresDaughter]

66. i see we have 8 freepers on board

[Maleficus]

67. I blame the Supreme Court.

It's been proven that Al Gore would be our president, if only the Supreme Court would've allowed the recounts to continue.

2000 wasn't an election. It was a selection.

:grr::grr::grr:

[hiphopnation]

68. hear hear

[Dems Will Win]

69. You left out Bob Shrum who lost his seventh race for Gore

That's 0 and 7. Tell Kerry to fire Shrum!

[LiberalEsto]

70. James Baker & his Hitler Youth

The brownshirts who rioted to stop the Florida recount.

[Ravenseye]

71. What....no 'other'?

What about the evil reptillian alien masters of Bush? Or would that fit in the first category?

[camero]

72. The elite wouldn't stand for it

Gore pulled ahead after deciding to campaign on UHC and running a populist campaign. After the SCOTUS,the Congressional Black Caucus filed a protest and not one senator came forward to help. Dem or Pub.

He pissed the DLC off with his campaign too.

[kodi]

73. enough with the blame game. it's al gore's own fault he's not president

and he knows it.

[Cheswick2.0]

74. Gore ran a great campaign, he won against the right the Nader left, and...

the media. The democratic party in particular the senate are responsible because they did nothing to support him during the recount.

[Character Assassin]

75. Quite clearly it was Paraguay. Damn them!

They'll pay, ohhhhhh, will they pay!

[The Sushi Bandit]

76. His VP pick

lost him votes