Typewritten letters - Proportional font - 1969 - Vietnam

[TahitiNut]

Here are examples of typewritten letters, using a proportionally sized font, done in Vietnam (USARV HQ at Long Binh) in 1969. These images are scanned from originals in my service folder, for which I also have carbon copy 'flimsies.' Any morans wishing to challenge this can go fuck themselves.

Now, I realize that Texas was a very backward human shit-hole of a state (where else would a slimy turd like Dubya build a pig ranch?) and Houston was a very backward city (where else would Tom Delay and Kenny Lay find enough imbecilic idiots?) ... but the outright LIES being peddled by the reichbots on this one should make a cockroach blush. Too bad these Dubya-adoring people and their brain-dead sycophants don't have the ethics of a cockroach.

Anyone who claims such typewriters were either rare or nonexistent in 1973 is unarguably a LIAR, a FOOL, or a TROLL, or all three. Honest people should not have to suffer such corrupt and imbecilic nonsense.

It's an appalling commentary on our times that such wholesale LYING is seen so ubiquitously in the mainstream. The abysmal corruption in our media, or government, and our public discourse has reached epidemic proportions - and has made our nation something to be ashamed of.







While these letters don't provide examples, these typewriters were fully able to print a superscripted 'th' 'st' and 'nd'.

(Anyone wishing to view larger images may merely substitute a '50' in place of the '25' in the file names.)

[DBtv]

1. "Forgery" issue is another publican lie.

publicanism equates with pathological prevarication and psychotic willfull ignorance.

[Karenina]

9. WHAT ABOUT THE CONTENT OF HIS CHARACTER

And the LIVE PEOPLE who confirm it? Never mind all of us who have seen Film at 11. This *DimwitMilitaryDocs circus is so far over the top I cannot believe what I'm reading. His records are 404 Cannot be Found. He has been photographed sporting awards he DID NOT EARN, just as he DID NOT EARN his placement in the "Champagne Unit." Doonesbury offered 10K, now Texans for Truth have upped it to 50 to anyone who can credibly peg the *twit WHERE he was 'sposa be WHEN he was 'sposa be there. Ya know, just SHOWING UP and all. ;-)

THIS IS ABSURD.

[mhr]

2. Thanks - My Mother Typed Dissertations In The 60's - She Could Do All

this and much more!

The math dissertations were the hardest - all those formulas and such!

[TahitiNut]

8. Well, these typewriters were ordinary (if not ubiquitous) ...

... when I worked at Fourth Army HQ at Fort Sam Houston (Texass) in 1968 and at USARV HQ at Long Binh in Vietnam in 1969. Claims to the contrary are obscenely ridiculous.

What's particularly ludicrous to me is that, as an EDP/MIS/IT person, I regarded them as a bit of a PITA. The computer printing technology I worked with at the time was exclusively based on fixed-pitch fonts. Asshats of today seem to suffer under the delusion that mainstream computer technology has always been in the forefront. That's just not true. Such computer technology had to "catch up" to this print functionality - which was no small part of the efforts of the Learning Research Group at Xerox's PARC beginning in the mid-70's.

[fob]

3. Thanks TahitiNut, I'm off to another thread where I was *asked*

to provide proof of typewriter abilities of the time, I think this qualifies nicely.

[TahitiNut]

18. You might also make note of the fact that the Army in Vietnam didn't ...

... have the most advanced office equipment. Not by a long sight. Not even close. We had older equipment - equipment that could be abandoned and quickly replaced if destroyed by a rocket attack (which were ordinary at the time).

[Hubert Flottz]

4. My DD 214 has two of the little 'th' thingys on it!

Circa 1971!

[SoCalDem]

13. Show us your DD-214...and the thingys

:evilgrin:

[Hubert Flottz]

16. I can't because Asscraft would zoom in on me!

But I am sitting here looking at it! They could do the little thingys at Ft Dix in 71!

[SoCalDem]

17. Hubie...make a copy, and then just black out the personal info

like they do at the White House:)

[Hubert Flottz]

19. I don't have a scanner!

I wish I did!

EDIT} "I am not a crook!"

[SoCalDem]

21. edit...

yes you are !! :P

[Hubert Flottz]

23. Now you really hurt my feelins!

Edit} Low Blow! :evilfrown:

[starroute]

24. Your local public library may have a scanner -- mind does

If you're willing to pursue this, give them a call and ask.

[Hubert Flottz]

27. The local library is the last place I'd go!

They'd tell Asscraft on me for sure! I'm telling you though, that whoever typed my 214, was able to do the little 'th' things! I was there when the guy typed it and I did sign it on the spot! I also remember the guy was using an electric typewriter when he typed it up! How the Hell, could I forget anything that happened to me on the happiest day of my entire damned life!(my last day in the F---ing Army)

[TahitiNut]

29. The clerk-cowboy who did my DD214 did it in all-caps Pica.

That, of course, doesn't make it any less precious to me (even though they left off my last-awarded medal). :evilgrin:

[Qutzupalotl]

39. Contact Andrew Hayward at CBS

CBS NEWS CHIEF Andrew Hayward. 212.975.7825. fax: [phone]. [e-mail] CBS SWITCHBOARD (ASK FOR NEWSROOM) 212.975.4321 fax: [phone]


or a programming manager. Make some calls. Ask to have your anonymity protected. They will. Look what they've done for their source.

[TahitiNut]

20. It was a PITA to get these letters scanned.

My scanner is dead meat. (I'll probably have to replace it.) So, I had to drive to a Kinko's and explain what I wanted. They gave me diskettes. It cost me $35. (Sheesh! For fucking reichbot morans!) When I returned home, I found I couldn't read the diskettes. (I haven't used the diskette drive for years. It needs cleaning, at the very least.) So, I called the Kinko's and the nice gal there was able to send me the files via email. What an unreal PITA to deal with the shit being flung by these sociopathic flying monkeys! These people are a waste of protoplasm - and a waste of oxygen - whose 'opinions' are worth less than farts in a stiff breeze.

[KoKo]

22. Big Applause Tahiti...sorry you had to fork out the 35 bucks, but you made

a good point here. I can't believe all these "naysayers" and Bush Media hacks who keep saying over and over that you couldn't type a document that looked like "word" back in late sixties and early seventies.

Maybe you should send your copies around...make it worth the 35 bucks. But they really don't want proof at CNN/MSNBC/WAPO...they want to rave on to their audience who must be all under 40 who don't know that a typewriter was capable of incredible things when IBM was in it's hey day
and not some antiquated thing from a 40's movie where one sat with clickety clack keys while a carriage went back and forth.... Good God I wonder if some of these folks realized they were electric!

[Beetwasher]

5. *Gasp*! There's a Centered Letter Head As Well!

I thought that was almost impossible w/ a typewriter! :eyes:

Thanks TN!

"Now, I realize that Texas was a very backward human shit-hole of a state (where else would a slimy turd like Dubya build a pig ranch?) and Houston was a very backward city (where else would Tom Delay and Kenny Lay find enough imbecilic idiots?)"

That gave me a good chuckle! Thanks for the laugh!

[Hell Hath No Fury]

7. Did someone ACTUALLY claim...

that centered letterhead was almost impossible with a manual?!?!?!

Good gosh, that is beyond belief. My gramps's stuff from WWII has centered letterhead for heaven's sake.

Any good typist worth their salt knew the trick to correctly centering text on a manual typwritter.

[TahitiNut]

33. I took typing in high school in 1959-60.

It was one of the first things we were taught.

When I read one of the "experts" saying that this was difficult, I damned near had a shit-hemmorhage. The abysmal idiocy of the human sewage on the reich is appalling.

[LiberalFighter]

40. You got that right...

I was taught that in high school!!!

It has been a while... my recollection is

center
then backspace for every two letters

Very difficult to do! /sarcasm off/

I learned that around 1970.

[TahitiNut]

41. Yup. That's it.

Challenging to those who can neither spell nor count, though. :evilgrin:

[ProdigalJunkMail]

10. well, the letterhead here

is centered, but was not typed by this machine...it is a printed letterhead and then the letter is typed on it. But that is neither here nor there...a good typist can center text without too much problem. I had to do it in typing class in 9th grade.

theProdigal

[TahitiNut]

14. (sigh) Try looking at the SECOND image.

:eyes:

[ProdigalJunkMail]

15. don't you roll your eyes at me! :-)

OK OK ... I was trying to help...

theProdigal

[TahitiNut]

11. My comments about Texas are obviously tongue-in-cheek.

As I've noted, these typewriters were common (if not plentiful) at Fourth Army HQ at Fort Sam Houston in San Antonio, Texas, where I was assigned from mid to late 1968.

Interestingly, I was there at the same time the Smirking Flyshit was training at Lackland AFB, 8 miles outside San Antonio. I may have even been getting drunk at the Hemisfair at the same time he was. (If I'd only known then what I know now!)

[happynewyear]

53. no part of a typist's training is to center things

You find the middle of the page and backspace one backspace for every two letters.

It was quite the task but it worked.

No one knows how to do any of this anymore for it seems to be a lost art. *sigh* All that work for nothing it seems.

Signed baldearg, An aging never appreciated "secretary" *ugh*

[salvorhardin]

6. Thanks for posting these

I find the repuke attacks on these documents to be especially repugnant because they are attempting (in a very Stalin-esque way) to rewrite history and deny the memories of tens of thousands (if not millions) of people who actually lived and worked with this technology.

[Snazzy]

12. Quick! let me recreate it in Word....

Funky font too for '69 (Copperplate like).

[TexasSissy]

25. Have you sent this to CBS/Rather?

[TahitiNut]

28. Yes. I doubt they really need these examples, though.

The bullshit disinformation is being thrown by the flying monkeys to keep the hoi polloi busy and focused on irrelevant crap instead of the criminal behavior of their brain-damaged icon.

[TexasSissy]

26. I THOUGHT I recalled Rather saying they had an authenticated doc.

from the military, other than the ones in question, that DID have the same kind of type (incl. the small "th" I think).

If this is true, BOY are some faces going to be red in a day or two, when CBS points this out.

I THOUGHT I remembered Rather saying that IBM had confirmed it had had proportional or whatever type available since years before 1969, although it was a high end thingie. And I thought Rather went on to state that they in fact had at least one other military document that is for sure authenticated that in fact is of the same type as these that others are questioning.

This is turning out to be an interesting story. I don't think it matters if the docs are fake, except it'll hurt Rather's reputation, so for that reason, I'm hoping the docs are not forgeries. This looks promising.

[Bridget Burke]

30. Proportional spacing in Texas....

It was available on IBM Executive typewriters that I personally used in a no-frills office in beautiful downtown Houston Other sources indicate that typewriter was invented many years previously.

And a couple of years later, on an IBM Selectric Composer--also used personally by me had proportional spacing. Actually, I'm not sure when that beast was invented. But I used it then.

Damn, all this talk about obsolete technology has been giving me a flashback. Not the sort I expected.

[TahitiNut]

32. I remember at the time that lots of people didn't want to bother ...

... with the IBM Executive (originally marketed as the IBM Electronic, iirc). It was not an interchangeable font (that came later with the Selectric), so what you bought was what you got. Most 'production' typing was already very well adapted to fixed-pitch typewriter fonts, especially forms.

So, IBM (a marketing powerhouse) called it the "Executive."

At that point, managers who didn't want to be viewed as typists became a market. After all, didn't they want to be an "Executive"?

Wherever I saw these typewriters, it was in a commander's office or next to an officer's desk.

At the time, I thought it was funny.


The problem getting managers to have keyboards on their desks lasted well into the 80s as office automation was being evangelized. I suppose it's hard for the still-wet-behind-the-ears crowd to realize there was once a world without PCs everywhere, but these were the realities not so long ago.

[rocktivity]

31. Do I believe they're forgeries? Let's just say, "Not yet"

The so-called experts said THERE WAS ABSOLUTELY NO WAY that the documents could have been typed. Within twenty-four hours, that was proven to be completely untrue. Why in the world should I take any further stock in their "expertise"?

:headbang:
rocknation

[salvorhardin]

34. Maybe it would be interesting

to get one of the 'experts' over here to see what he says about his assertion that there's no way these documents could have been typed in the early 1970s? Maybe that Joseph Newcomer dude?

http://www.flounder.com

[KoKo]

35. Kick for the "proportional font" which no one seems to want to discuss.

:kick:

[noiretextatique]

36. thanks, tahiti nut...for the information and the laugh

i think they must think we're stoopid :7
i used a typewriter in the early 70's...
i could center text on it and everything...
maybe it had proportional spacing even...
:shrug: perhaps the republicans don't know this because they never had to type anything

[Must_B_Free]

37. Nice!!!

one would be inclined to suspect these of being fake because of the unusual typeface.

However, once again, we can see the roving baseline - i.e. the "a" in recommendation is struck higher than the baseline.

[TahitiNut]

38. Well, if you look closely at the 50% version, you can see a corrected typo

... or two. The advantages of a 1st generation high-res scan are obvious. Just as obvious is how one could make 9th generation copies and eradicate many of the clearer indications ... like the white spot near the center of the period. :shrug:

The visible characteristics of a typewriter and platen are very evident on the CBS memos still, even after the mutilations of copying and image reproduction.

[Skinner]

42. Great post

Thanks. :thumbsup:

[DemonFighterLives]

43. Thanks Tahitinut

Nothing would be better than those memos to be real. The Neocons have invested their whole strategy in discrediting them. Of course if they were some type of rewrite or whatever, the content remains true.

I learned centering in 1976
Still had some old manuals too
Dam, I hope this centers

:argh:

[saigon68]

47. interesting

[Festivito]

44. 1941-1972 IBM Electromatic & Executive had proportional fonts.

http://www.nationmaster.com/encyclopedia/IBM-Executive-series-typewriter

It had a whopping four spacings for electric typewriting with typesetting quality so good even the boss would want one on his desk -- and so IBM could sell twice as many.

A picture of its proportional type:


...good ole google...

[TahitiNut]

45. Yes, the pitch variability was merely FOUR differing widths ...

... on the font technology employed by the IBM Executive (and equivalent) typewriters.

Anyone who cares to examine the Killian memos released by CBS should note that, due to the granularity of the image, characters occupy font cells that're 16 pixels high and either 6, 8, 10, or 12 pixels wide. Quelle surprise! :eyes:

Besides the giveaway of a variance in the baseline of the characters, the Killian font shows no indication of having a variable stroke width, instead it shows the relatively uniform stroke width typical of a typewriter. (A close examination of the documents I've provided will show a very slight variance in stroke width, so slight that reduction, reproduction, and pixellation at low resolution would show none.) In particular, the blunt-ended serifs are a giveaway that they're typewritten. (Even daisy-wheels had more pointed serifs.)

I think what's particularly amusing about the Wordspiracy Delusionists is the complete and total abdication of any conjecture/allegation regarding the actual mechanical printing of any purportedly fraudulent Word output. It's really ludicrous to play stupid parlor games with screen images and ignore the actual production of a hard-copy document. Unless and until someone offers a "theory" regarding the printing step, delusive and specious allegations regarding the composition process (whether human or software) is totally and completely immaterial! Was it supposedly a daisy-wheel printer? a laser printer? a dot-matrix printer? an ink-jet printer? Which was it? (Assholes!)

I'm old enough to remember early (experimental) computer output interfaces to typewriters - one of which actually fit over a keyboard and struck the keys!

[happynewyear]

52. and furthermore ...

I was employed as an Executive Secretary for the DoD (and other gov't agencies) around this time.

The expert on the typewriters knew how to make a superscript and subscript with a skilled hand movement. As for spacing, there was a trick to that too and it was easy enough to do once you mastered this art and skill (and believe me, there was an real skill to it).

So even if subscript and superscript did not techinically exist as a keyboard "option" (without the aid of the trained eye and hand), they most certainly DID exist. I was good at it, very good.

I find this whole argument to be stupid as hell being I know the reality of it (been there and done that).

Those old IBM Selectric's came out around 1974 or so and they were great machines and assisted the skilled typist greatly being they had that excellent correction feature at long last.

:dem: :kick:

[ironflange]

46. I don't think anyone has said this yet

Even though it was 35 years ago, congratulations on the really nice commendation!

:toast:

[TahitiNut]

49. Thank you, ironflange. Now that you mention it, ...

... I left off the second page of the second memo. It's where Major Troy became more effusive -- so I thought discretion might be mistaken for modesty. I particularly liked the "absolute trust" line. The feeling was reciprocal. Needless to say, we all worked very well together under some often-terrifying (for us, at least) conditions. I guess when you piss your pants while under fire along with other guys, it carries over into the office.
:evilgrin:

I suppose it deserves some attention here, though. There've been some inferences that draftees aren't as effective or as much of a "good soldier" as the career military. From personal experience, I reject that specious notion fully and absolutely. While I might like to egotistically think I was exceptional, in honesty I don't think I was. I know that I trusted my life to other guys - many of whom were draftees as I was. We poked some fun at the RA's (Regular Army) and they returned it - but there was never any question of trust or confidence. None. To even suggest such a thing, in some corrupt attempt to divide the past as people are divided now, is repulsive to me. I think the "Swiftboat Liars" are scum. They've betrayed the trust of a fraternity of men who had absolute trust in one another. That's beneath contempt.

[John_H]

48. C;mon Dan: "Here at CBS we've been inuundated with Viet Nam era letters

from the military which display the identical techniques that critics of the Killian documents say were impossible back then. We've verified hundreds of these documents as authentic. And guess what, We've been able to recreate every one of them in Microsoft Word.

In fact, one of the great things about Microsoft word is that you can recreate almost any document. Here we've recreated a page from teh 1876 edition of the Farmer's Alamanac."

[A_Possum]

50. Another interesting thing to note here

the typist didn't put his/her initials

[TahitiNut]

51. We typed stuff ourselves, even Major Troy.

Even the company clerk didn't do much menial dictation/typing for the Company CO. What he did was part of his own workload; the Captain did his own, too.

As I recall, the IBM Executive was on a roll-around typewriter stand, just like other typewriters. Roll it over. Plug it in. Type. :shrug: