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Minstrel Boy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-22-04 12:43 PM
Original message
Poll question: "If the US or Israel bombed Iran's nuclear facilities tomorrow,
I would feel, largely, ________."
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ObaMania Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-22-04 12:47 PM
Response to Original message
1. Enraged and..
.. I feel that the shit would really hit the fan in the middle east!
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drdon326 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-22-04 12:48 PM
Response to Original message
2. Hopefully someone will...soon.
iran is the most regressive countries on earth and the idea of them
having nukes is freightening.
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Media_Lies_Daily Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-22-04 12:55 PM
Response to Reply #2
10. How do you feel about ANY country having nukes?....
Do you feel safe knowing that FratBoy is as close as he is to the nuclear codes?

By the way...if Iran has nukes or develops them, who are they going to use them against?
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jmowreader Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-22-04 01:31 PM
Response to Reply #10
32. They're not going to use them against anyone
But everyone will think they're going to use them against Israel Any Second Now.

My opinion: the only way the Iranians would authorize nuclear release is if the US invaded Iran. Then they'd blow the shit out of Israel, we'd blow the shit out of Iran, and Osama would stage another terrorist attack in the United States.
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Artemis Bunyon Donating Member (435 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-22-04 01:50 PM
Response to Reply #32
38. If the scenario you describe were to unfold, Usama wouldn't NEED to.
Stage another attack, that is. His goals would be met.
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jmowreader Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-22-04 08:40 PM
Response to Reply #38
45. You're right, but Osama Sez Terror Attacks are Fun
And nothing would prevent Osama from hitting us again while we were down, which many of us would be if there was a fucking Nuclear War going on in the Middle East.
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Darranar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-22-04 11:18 PM
Response to Reply #2
54. And what happens if the success is only partial?
If Iran's WMDs could be eliminated completely and swiftly with minimal civilian casualties, then perhaps the strike would be justified, but I doubt that's possible. If the strike only partially succeeds, Iran may retaliate with WMDs, with horrendous consequences for the region and the world.
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chelsea0011 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-22-04 12:48 PM
Response to Original message
3. I don't know if jubilant is the right word
but Iran can't be allowed to develop a nuclear weapon and I for one don't think their program is all for peaceful use.
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Media_Lies_Daily Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-22-04 12:52 PM
Response to Reply #3
6. Give us all a clue as to who they might attack.
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Yupster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-22-04 10:37 PM
Response to Reply #6
49. My guess is a nuke would be shot into Israel
from Lebanon, and Syria, and Iran would have no idea how it got there.

It's a real no win scenario. A regular Kobyashi Maru.
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DrWeird Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-22-04 12:53 PM
Response to Reply #3
8. Yes, and we better hurry up and invade Iraq too.
They've got WMDs and are ready to use them.
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chelsea0011 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-22-04 12:59 PM
Response to Reply #8
15. So you think Iran with nukes is good idea?
And I think Israel might be high on their list as an enemy. This is nothing like Iraq. Iraq was a lie and Sadaam was contained. Iran has announced they are making wepons grade plutonium. Why do you think they are doing this? They want to be a nuclear power in the Mid East. I'm not happy with Israel having nuclear capability and I sure as hell won't be happy is Iran goes nuclear.
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Media_Lies_Daily Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-22-04 01:12 PM
Response to Reply #15
24. And you believe that Iran is making weapons grade plutonium because.....
...the NeoCons want us to believe that??
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drdon326 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-22-04 01:38 PM
Response to Reply #24
35. Not the neo-cons....
The SPINELESS IAEA, the UN and even France are worried.

enjoy....

http://www.coxandforkum.com/archives/000417.html
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DrWeird Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-22-04 01:13 PM
Response to Reply #15
25. Why would Iran want nukes?
To prevent an invasion from the US or Israel.
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One_Life_To_Give Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-22-04 01:27 PM
Response to Reply #25
29. Israel Couldn't do it.
Israel doesn't have the forces, or population to support them, to take on Iran. And it would be a difficult nut for the US to chew.

Nukes are a bargaining chip today. Good for guaranteeing your own defense and intimidating countries. IMHO Iran will use the Bomb for both. To deter western interference and to build a Greater State. If it's effects were limited to defensive purposes I wouldn't care. But as Iran will likely use it to influence it's neighbors the world needs to be concerned.
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jayfish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-22-04 01:44 PM
Response to Reply #29
37. "But as Iran will likely use it to influence it's neighbors"
Hmmm... I guess that's different than using them to influence the world for the last 60 years.

Jay
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One_Life_To_Give Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-22-04 02:00 PM
Response to Reply #37
39. IAEA would probably stop US if they could.
But just because that horse is out of the barn doesn't mean the rest should be allowed to leave either.
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jayfish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-22-04 02:11 PM
Response to Reply #39
43. Excellent Response.
I still don't think that the US has a right to dictate how a country can defend itself.

Jay
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laura888 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-22-04 08:43 PM
Response to Reply #25
46. Exactly! who can F***ng blame them!? n/t
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MadHound Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-22-04 02:08 PM
Response to Reply #15
40. Yet weapons grade plutonium has other uses
Than building a bomb. Namely powering a reactor. Part of this debate is involvoing Siemens, who wants to sell Iran a reactor that would be powered by WG plutonium. Hmmmm.

Israel actually has the bomb, and they are one of the looser cannons in the ME. Yet nobody is slamming them on this, why?

Out of all of the nuclear powers out there, we are the only ones who have ever used the bomb. Yet we are allowed to not only keep our weapons program, but also to expand it. Why?

Iran has seen with its own eyes how this Bush administration operates, bombast and bluster, though no action, against those with the bomb. Those without the bomb get invaded. Perhaps Iran is thinking that a little deterence is in order, and quite frankly I can't blame them.

Frankly I think every country should be stripped of its nukes, it is too much like playing with fire. But that isn't going to happen, so how can you really condemn a country for looking to its own defense?

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MadHound Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-22-04 02:10 PM
Response to Reply #15
41. Yet weapons grade plutonium has other uses
Than building a bomb. Namely powering a reactor. Part of this debate is involvoing Siemens, who wants to sell Iran a reactor that would be powered by WG plutonium. Hmmmm.

Israel actually has the bomb, and they are one of the looser cannons in the ME. Yet nobody is slamming them on this, why?

Out of all of the nuclear powers out there, we are the only ones who have ever used the bomb. Yet we are allowed to not only keep our weapons program, but also to expand it. Why?

Iran has seen with its own eyes how this Bush administration operates, bombast and bluster, though no action, against those with the bomb. Those without the bomb get invaded. Perhaps Iran is thinking that a little deterence is in order, and quite frankly I can't blame them.

Frankly I think every country should be stripped of its nukes, it is too much like playing with fire. But that isn't going to happen, so how can you really condemn a country for looking to its own defense?
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MadHound Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-22-04 02:11 PM
Response to Reply #15
42. Yet weapons grade plutonium has other uses
Than building a bomb. Namely powering a reactor. Part of this debate is involvoing Siemens, who wants to sell Iran a reactor that would be powered by WG plutonium. Hmmmm.

Israel actually has the bomb, and they are one of the looser cannons in the ME. Yet nobody is slamming them on this, why?

Out of all of the nuclear powers out there, we are the only ones who have ever used the bomb. Yet we are allowed to not only keep our weapons program, but also to expand it. Why?

Iran has seen with its own eyes how this Bush administration operates, bombast and bluster, though no action, against those with the bomb. Those without the bomb get invaded. Perhaps Iran is thinking that a little deterence is in order, and quite frankly I can't blame them.

Frankly I think every country should be stripped of its nukes, it is too much like playing with fire. But that isn't going to happen, so how can you really condemn a country for looking to its own defense?
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MadHound Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-22-04 02:13 PM
Response to Reply #15
44. Yet weapons grade plutonium has other uses
Than building a bomb. Namely powering a reactor. Part of this debate is involvoing Siemens, who wants to sell Iran a reactor that would be powered by WG plutonium. Hmmmm.

Israel actually has the bomb, and they are one of the looser cannons in the ME. Yet nobody is slamming them on this, why?

Out of all of the nuclear powers out there, we are the only ones who have ever used the bomb. Yet we are allowed to not only keep our weapons program, but also to expand it. Why?

Iran has seen with its own eyes how this Bush administration operates, bombast and bluster, though no action, against those with the bomb. Those without the bomb get invaded. Perhaps Iran is thinking that a little deterence is in order, and quite frankly I can't blame them.

Frankly I think every country should be stripped of its nukes, it is too much like playing with fire. But that isn't going to happen, so how can you really condemn a country for looking to its own defense?Than building a bomb. Namely powering a reactor. Part of this debate is involvoing Siemens, who wants to sell Iran a reactor that would be powered by WG plutonium. Hmmmm.

Israel actually has the bomb, and they are one of the looser cannons in the ME. Yet nobody is slamming them on this, why?

Out of all of the nuclear powers out there, we are the only ones who have ever used the bomb. Yet we are allowed to not only keep our weapons program, but also to expand it. Why?

Iran has seen with its own eyes how this Bush administration operates, bombast and bluster, though no action, against those with the bomb. Those without the bomb get invaded. Perhaps Iran is thinking that a little deterence is in order, and quite frankly I can't blame them.

Frankly I think every country should be stripped of its nukes, it is too much like playing with fire. But that isn't going to happen, so how can you really condemn a country for looking to its own defense?
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Dhalgren Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-22-04 12:57 PM
Response to Reply #3
13. How you feel about Iran's nuclear industry
means absolutely nothing. Iran is a sovereign nation and can develop nuclear energy if it so chooses. What your concerns are is irrelevant and that goes for the US government as a whole. We are not the rulers of the world and we do not get to say who may own what. Iran says that they are developing fuel for nuclear energy plants - the IAEA, so far, says that there is no evidence of anything else going on. We should butt out, unless we want to form a world-wide group to end possession of nuclear weapons and destroy all of ours first, then we could talk to the other nations about their's.
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Kool Kitty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-22-04 11:47 PM
Response to Reply #3
57. You know what would make me jubilant?
If NO COUNTRY HAD NUKES. If they were suddenly swept off the face of the earth-that would make me jubilant.
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DrWeird Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-22-04 12:49 PM
Response to Original message
4. What chickenhawks voted jubilant?
Feel free to enlist. The military is having enough problems with Iraq.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-22-04 12:51 PM
Response to Reply #4
5. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
drdon326 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-22-04 12:52 PM
Response to Reply #4
7. Sign me up to take out their nukes.
.
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DrWeird Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-22-04 12:53 PM
Response to Reply #7
9. Go and enlist.
Look for Saddam's WMDs while you're over there.
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Minstrel Boy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-22-04 12:55 PM
Response to Reply #7
11. Here's a link:
http://www.af.mil/careers/

I'd sign you up, but they need more than your DU handle. Godspeed, brave drdon326!
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drdon326 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-22-04 12:58 PM
Response to Reply #11
14. And you look foward to Iran having nukes??
.
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DrWeird Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-22-04 01:00 PM
Response to Reply #14
16. I would.
It'd protect them from being invaded. They have just as much right to them as Pakistan, the US, or Israel.
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drdon326 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-22-04 01:04 PM
Response to Reply #16
19. WOW.
So you have no problem in a terrorist supporting regressive country
having nukes.....:scared:
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DrWeird Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-22-04 01:04 PM
Response to Reply #19
20. The US is a terrorist supporting regressive country.
Plenty of nukes here.

When was the last time Iran invaded another country?
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Darranar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-22-04 11:26 PM
Response to Reply #20
55. There is an important difference...
Edited on Wed Sep-22-04 11:26 PM by Darranar
not a moral one, but one regarding power.

The United States is a superpower. Its survival in pretty much its current form is assured (for now at least), and its hegemony can be defended with conventional weaponry (to the degree that it can be militarily defended at all). Iran is threatened by the US and by various other nations. It may well see the need to use its nukes to defend its survival, with the result being massive death and destruction.

In a situation extremely dangerous to the ruling class of either nation, I have no doubt that they would use nukes if they thought it was necessary to ensure their continued survival. But such a situation is far more likely to occur to an Iran with nukes than a US with nukes.
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Media_Lies_Daily Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-22-04 01:08 PM
Response to Reply #19
22. Do you pay taxes to the U. S. Government? Guess what?....
You're giving financial support to "a terrorist supporting regressive country having nukes".
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Swamp Rat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-22-04 01:24 PM
Response to Reply #19
26. So, do you not have a problem with this new pre-emption policy?
Isn't that policy regressive in the extreme? What do you know about Iran?

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freestyle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-22-04 01:25 PM
Response to Reply #19
27. The US is regressing
and the bush junta is on the way to regressive and repressive. Terrorist support goes way back. This hypocrisy on nukes annoys the hell out of me. Who gets to decide what countries get what weapons. At one point, the mutually assured destruction of the US and USSR was thought to be a necessary balance. Israel having nukes while none of its neighbors do is unbalanced. I would like to get rid of all nuclear weapons, but that's not going to happen. Also, the US invasion of Iraq and not North Korea showed that nukes are a necessary deterrent to the bush regime's aggression. Iran had been slowly opening up again until we started fucking up the neighborhood.
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mike_c Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-22-04 08:45 PM
Response to Reply #19
47. are you referring to the U.S...
...Israel, or some other "terrorist supporting regressive country?"
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Minstrel Boy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-22-04 01:02 PM
Response to Reply #14
17. Shouldn't you be talking to a recruitment officer?
Time's a-wastin', good buddy.

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Media_Lies_Daily Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-22-04 01:06 PM
Response to Reply #14
21. That's why the US and USSR had a concept called "MAD"....
"MAD" stands for "Mutually Assured Destruction". Neither side could attack the other without suffering the same consequences.

Do you think it's okay to invade other countries without provocation? If you do, then you must also believe Hitler was correct when he invaded/took over Austria and The Sudetenland.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-22-04 12:56 PM
Response to Reply #7
12. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Dhalgren Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-22-04 01:03 PM
Response to Reply #7
18. What nukes?
Iran says that they are developing fuel for nuclear energy plants - the IAEA, so far, says that there is no evidence of anything else going on. Show me the links proving Iran has nuclear weapons. Thanks in advance...
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Media_Lies_Daily Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-22-04 01:11 PM
Response to Reply #18
23. No, no...this is a situation just like the Iraqi WMDs....
...just because we haven't found them, and the chances of finding them are growing slimmer by the day, doesn't mean they don't have them!

Yikes.
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Dhalgren Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-22-04 01:29 PM
Response to Reply #23
30. Oh, sorry, I guess my kool-aide had worn off, there.
Hmmm (glug, glug, glug), ahhhh. There, ok, now. Where were we? Yikes! Iran has nukes!!?? Holy Jeeeesus! We got to kill 'em all!!!
(How's that? Better? Whew, that was a close one).
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-22-04 01:26 PM
Response to Reply #7
28. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-22-04 01:31 PM
Response to Reply #28
31. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
HEIL PRESIDENT GOD Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-22-04 01:33 PM
Response to Original message
33. If Israel does it, fine.
I want to see them humiliate Bush by going literally over his head.

If the U.S. does it, it's just a prelude to a U.S.-Iran war that will probably turn the world against us militarily, as opposed to just politically.
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fedsron2us Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-22-04 01:34 PM
Response to Original message
34. If you want to stop the Islamic world developing the bomb
then you are already way too late

http://news.bbc.co.uk/onthisday/hi/dates/stories/may/28/newsid_2495000/2495045.stm

I am not sure that Iran is any more likely to use nuclear weapons or to let them fall into the hands of terrorists than Pakistan.
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SidDithers Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-22-04 01:42 PM
Response to Original message
36. Terrified...
at the escalation that would follow.

Sid
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Petrodollar Warfare Donating Member (628 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-22-04 09:32 PM
Response to Original message
48. The Real Reasons for the Upcoming Operations Against Iran...
Edited on Wed Sep-22-04 09:52 PM by GoreN4
...Well, some of you might recall my December 2002 essay/hypothesis regarding the Real Reasons for the Upcoming War with Iraq...which unfolded mostly as I predicted a few months later in 2003.

FYI: The Iranians are about to committ an offense far greater than Saddam's conversion to the euro for his oil exports. Iran is going to compete with New York's NYMEX and London's IPE with respect to international oil trades - using a *EURO BASED CRUDE OIL MARKER.*

What does that mean? Well, it means that without some sort of US intervention, the euro is going to establish a firm foothold in the international oil trade - which given our debt levels and the neocon desire for U.S. global domination - prvides a rather problematic situation.

Below is an exert from my upcoming book 'Petrodollar Warfare' - in which I will try to explain the two coalescing forces that are driving the neocons - Peak Oil and the challenge to US petrodollar hegemony from the emergence of a potential petroeuro... Saddam was chapter one is this phase, Chavez was almost chapter two in April 2002, Iran is looking like chapter three. Russia will ultimately go petroeuro - but thankfully the neocons are not *quite insane* enough to make that chapter four in the petrowarfare phase of American history...but perhaps Nigeria will fulfil that role?

BTW, the Iranian knows all about these issues, and any nuclear weapon they develop will be *defensive* in nature (Afterall, North Korea has openly threatened the U.S. - but they have no oil - hence they are allowed to have nukes). Remember, Iran is likely sitting on as much oil as Iraq (due to deterioation/permanent damage of Iraq's two main/giant oil reseviours). Iran is likely worried as - as the other member in the last Axis of Evil with Oil - that without a nuclear deterrent, the US under a Bush II term will call up a draft and prepare for operations against Iran - WMD or not. (it's unclear as to whether covert or overt operations might be employed at this moment - asnd IMO both are likely to fail - and produce some very unintended consequences...but the neocons don't study history)


FWIW, here's the hardnosed truth about Iran...

Hint: One of the Federal Reserves's Greatest Nightmare's may unfold in exactly 6-months (March 2005): A Euro-denominated International Oil Marker (ie. a euro pricing mechanism for oil trades)

Current geopolitical tensions between the United States and Iran extend beyond the publicly stated concerns regarding Iran’s nuclear intentions, and likely include a proposed Iranian petroeuro system for oil trade.

To date, one of the more difficult “technical obstacles” concerning a petroeuro oil transaction trading system is the lack of a euro-denominated oil pricing standard, or oil “marker” as it is referred to in the industry. The three current oil “markers” are all U.S. dollar denominated, and although Iran is requiring payments in the euro for its European oil exports, the oil pricing for trades are still denominated in the dollar.

Therefore a potentially significant news development was reported in June 2004 announcing Iran’s intentions to create of an Iranian oil Bourse. (The word “Bourse” refers to a stock exchange for securities trading, and is derived from the French stock exchange in Paris, the Federation Internationale des Bourses de Valeurs.) This announcement portended competition would arise between the Iranian oil bourse and the U.S.-owned London’s International Petroleum Exchange (IPE), as well as the New York Mercantile Exchange (NYMEX).

Acknowledging that many of the oil contracts for Iran and Saudi Arabia are linked to the United Kingdom’s Brent crude marker, the Iranian bourse could create a significant shift in the flow of international commerce into the Middle East. If Iran’s bourse becomes a successful alternative for oil trades, it would challenge the hegemony currently enjoyed by the financial centers in both London (IPE) and New York (NYMEX), a risk not overlooked in the following article:

“Iran is to launch an oil trading market for Middle East and Opec producers that could threaten the supremacy of London's International Petroleum Exchange.”

“…He played down the dangers that the new exchange could eventually pose for the IPE or Nymex, saying he hoped they might be able to cooperate in some way.

Some industry experts have warned the Iranians and other OPEC producers that western exchanges are controlled by big financial and oil corporations, which have a vested interest in market volatility.
The IPE, bought in 2001 by a consortium that includes BP, Goldman Sachs and Morgan Stanley, was unwilling to discuss the Iranian move yesterday. "We would not have any comment to make on it at this stage," said an IPE spokeswoman.“

It is unclear at the time of writing if this project will be successful, or could it prompt an overt U.S. military intervention - thereby signaling the second phase of petrodollar warfare in the Middle East. Regardless of the potential response, the emergence of an oil exchange market in the Middle East is not entirely surprising given the post-domestic peaking and decline of oil exports in the U.S. and U.K, in comparison to the remaining oil reserves in Iran, Iraq and Saudi Arabia. According to Mohammad Javad Asemipour, an advisor to Iran’s oil ministry and the individual responsible for this project, this new oil exchange is scheduled to begin oil trading in 2005.

“Asemipour said the platform should be trading crude, natural gas and petrochemicals by the start of the new Iranian year, which falls on March 21, 2005.

He said other members of the Organization of Petroleum Exporting Countries - Iran is the producer group's second-largest producer behind Saudi Arabia - as well as oil producers from the Caspian region would eventually participate in the exchange.”

The macroeconomic implications of a successful Iranian Bourse are worthy of note. Considering that Iran has switched to the euro for its oil payments from E.U. and ACU customers, it would be logical to assume the proposed Iranian Bourse would usher in a fourth crude oil marker – denominated in the euro currency. Such a development would remove perhaps the main “technical obstacle” for a broad-based petroeuro system for international oil trades. Furthermore, according to the following report, Saudi investors may be interested in participating in the Iranian oil exchange market, further illustrating why petrodollar recycling is unsustainable.

“Chris Cook, who previously worked for the IPE and now offers consultancy services to markets through Partnerships Consulting LLP in London, commented: "Post-9/11, there has also been an interest in the project from the Saudis, who weren't interested in participating before."

Others familiar with Iran's economy said since 9/11, Saudi Arabian investors are opting to invest in Iran rather than traditional western markets as the kingdom's relations with the U.S. have weakened Iran's oil ministry has made no secret of its eagerness to attract much needed foreign investment in its energy sector and broaden its choice of oil buyers.

Along with several other members of OPEC, Iranian oil officials believe crude trading on the New York Mercantile Exchange and the IPE is controlled by the oil majors and big financial companies, who benefit from market volatility.”

It appears the final three pivotal items that would create the OPEC transition to euros will be based on (1) if and when Norway's Brent crude is re-dominated in euros, (2) if and when the U.K. adopts the euro, and (3) whether or not Iran’s proposed Oil Bourse (exchange) is successful and utilizes the euro as its oil transaction currency standard. Regarding the U.K., Tony Blair has lobbied heavily for the U.K. to adopt the euro, and its adoption would seem imminent within this decade. If and when the U.K. adopts the euro currency, we are likely to see a concerted effort to quickly establish the euro as an international reserve currency. Given the U.K.’s uncomfortable juxtaposition between the financial interests of the U.S. and the E.U., the fulfilment of this hypothesis would represent a monumental realignment of the transatlantic relationship.

References:

Macalister, Terry, ‘Iran takes on west's control of oil trading,’ UK Guardian, June 16, 2004
URL: http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/story/0,3604,1239644,00.html

402. “Iran Eyes Deal on Oil Bourse; IPE Chairman Visits Tehran,” Rigzone.com (July 8, 2004)
URL: http://www.rigzone.com/news/article.asp?a_id=14588


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Eloriel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-22-04 11:13 PM
Response to Reply #48
53. Ooooo, PLEASE start a new thread with this post
This needs to be seen by a LOT of people, not just those who take polls (I usually don't) and bother to read all the posts.

Great info. Chilling, too.
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The Straight Story Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-22-04 10:54 PM
Response to Original message
50. Voted Other
It would depend on what was really found to be the truth, which is something fleeting these days. Hell, I don't trust * with them - no reason to trust some other religious nut jobs with them either. We can never decrease the amount of nukes if everyone keeps building them - and iran is not the most stable of places.

In a world where no god exists than the strong must protect themselves (and have the moral authority to do it since they have the power, and those with the power make the rules as morals don't go beyond mankind when there is nothing greater than us - personally as a christian I believe there is though).

Someone who hates you is making a weapon to equalize things? Destroy em and you don't have to worry they will use it. Who has the authority to tell you that you are wrong??

Some sarcasm for thought in all this...
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UpsideDownFlag Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-22-04 11:00 PM
Response to Original message
51. 51 enraged votes? how enraged would you be if iran got a nuke...
...and used it against us? or anybody else for that matter?
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Eloriel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-22-04 11:02 PM
Response to Original message
52. Terrified, aghast, outraged, grief-stricken ... and
probably a bunch of other things I can't even imagine right now.

What in particular makes you ask. (Yeah, I know about all the saber-rattlig and the recent UN resolution, but what specficially makes you ask?)
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Minstrel Boy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-23-04 12:12 AM
Response to Reply #52
58. Oh, no good reason, really.
It's just one of those things I expect to wake up hearing, one of these days, and I was just curious to know what kind of reactions I could anticipate finding here.
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Darranar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-22-04 11:28 PM
Response to Original message
56. Worried and enraged. n/t
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flaminbats Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-23-04 12:27 AM
Response to Original message
59. this depends..
if it was Israel I would be worried that the coming days shall be humanity's last on Earth. If it was the U.S. I would probably join up with the second American revolution!
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