Juan Cole...what was in that Bradley fighting vehicle?

[truth2power]

Did anyone catch this? Describing the gunship firing into the crowd of civilians...

"Alarmed that the Bradley would now be looted for weapons and ammunition (and, some reports say, "sensitive equipment"), US troops now call in helicopter gunships."

snip>

"I don't know if the helicopters actually took fire from the crowd or not. It is plausible, but given that mostly civilians appear to have been struck, it wouldn't be strange if the US side tried to put the best possible face on the matter."

" It would also be interesting to know what exactly was in that burning Bradley that was so important it was worth 13 lives and scores of wounded."

http://www.juancole.com/

Very interesting, indeed.

edit > oops...added link.

[truth2power]

1. okay. I'll kick this.

Thoughts anyone?? What was in that vehicle that they didn't want known?

[Eloriel]

3. No idea. Maybe someone will send the professor a clue or two.

He does GREAT work, btw.

[stavka]

4. Juan Cole gave me an incomplete in Persian History -*kick*

The insurgents (the home team) -couldn't use it for parts, they couldn't move it for a road block - their weapons don't fire 20mm shells, and I doubt there was any radio equipment that couldn't be replicated. So what are you with? - a few small arms? - they have those; they just need people to use them, and we are helping them with that...

lets do the math - 13 random dead * 20 relatives * 15 hot heads looking for a fight/legitamacy of occupation + known ability to occupy =

My guess is the best thing that can happen to us? - The Iraqi reistance decides to sink more effort into airpower.

Juan - I'm glad you lost the mustache, and now you don't need to teach in East Hall

[HawkerHurricane]

2. Standard loadout for a Bradley...

Includes TOW (Tube launched, Optically Wire guided) anti tank missiles... with a range of something like 5 miles, and accurate for the whole range. IF they could salvage/acquire a launcher, these weapons could kill tanks or lesser armored vehicles... or blow holes into buildings.

Just my 2 cents.

[stavka]

5. ...if you don't have a TOW system, you can't launch a TOW

If we are stupid enough to still deploy TOW missiles in Iraq?!?!?

And we sold TOW missiles to Iran, never to Iraq.

(TOW are wire guided anti-tank missiles developed to fight Kursk again in Germany or Poland - or on the plains of Golan)

A TOW missile still has a nice set of explosives in it, but plain old 155mm artillery shells provide the same bang for less buck.

[HawkerHurricane]

7. I said IF they had a launcher...

and yes, we did send them to Iraq... once upon a time, Iraq had tanks, and that's what TOW was designed to kill.

Of course, they might of pulled them out once the war was over... but I doubt it. Military mindset is 'keep everything, it might be useful.'

And the Bradley comes with a TOW launcher... which might be salvageable... but unlikely.

So, I'm making wild ass guesses without any facts. Could there have been code books in the vehicle? Was it a command vehicle with the extra radios and encryption gear? Or did some local commander decide to follow standard proceedure and call for the destruction of equipment that had 'fallen into enemy hands' for no reason other than that is standard proceedure?

Too many questions, no answers.

[stavka]

10. Hey - I'm not trying to diss anybody ----

It is EXTEMELY unlikely that any individual group in Iraq has a captured TOW launcher. - We did not provide them to Iraq in the first Persian Gulf War, we provided them to Iran...

Iraq = Chemical Weapons and Helicopters
Iran = Spare parts and TOW Missles
---
US = Neutral in 1st Persian Gulf War

It would be weird for any really damaging or comprimising documentation to be sent forward in a M2 Bradly IFV in hostile territory...

Much more likly that some battalion CO didn't want the Bradly to be captured, no matter what.

After all, who gives a shit, we occupy them, "they" shouldn't climb on the big green machine - it's against the rules...

Kerry/Edwards '04

[SpiralHawk]

11. You can thank Jolly Ollie North for the TOW missles Iran has

That was one of Ollie's acts of "patriotism" -- seeing that the Iranians were well equipped to shoot down any US planes that might happen by.

Thanks a pantload, Ollie.

[stavka]

14. Thank you Ollie! - But TOWs can't shoot down planes

They are by definition "wire guided".

They might destroy planes on a runway, but....

They really are anti-armored vehicle

In an insurgency, I suppose you could use them against a bunker or vault, but they are otherwise pretty useless as applied....

[the Kelly Gang]

6. in this fast changing scenario this is an aspect I would have never

have really thought about ..your piece Juan really does raise questions but will we ever know the answer ?.

Just how reckless are the actions in this incidents..one thing I do know..each Iraqi death must create a whole new set of enemies.

[TexasProgresive]

8. Secret communications gear that links units together.

Iraq was not always a backward nation. They have engineers, scientists and technicians who might be able to compromise the security of communications. The military doesn't use regular radio that anyone can receive-it is digital and incrypted to a high degree and they are very careful to destroy any equipment that might fall out of their control. The other thing would be the IFF transponder that ID's the vehicle.

I doubt this stuff was worth the 13 lives but this is the same military that would burn as secure trash the chad from 100s of key punch operators when they ran IBM cards. They are obsessive about security.

[moondust]

9. Night vision eqiupment?

Goggles, viewers, whatever.

[Aristus]

12. SINGARS radios and PVS-7 night goggles.

Highly sensitive items.

Still not worth the loss of innocent lives, though.

[wishlist]

13. Several tanks full of eqmt have been stolen in past couple of weeks

I saw a shocking report on TV last week revealing that there have been a number of recent incidents of stolen tanks full of weapons and equipment that have gotten into the hands of the insurgents. I am sure the prevalence of these takeovers is considered a huge security problem so this rocket attack on the tank was considered crucial as both a retaliative and preventative measure.

[stavka]

15. An M2 Bradly is neither a Tank, or anything to haul equipment (NT)