was 9/11 even possible?

[ProfessorPlum]

Disregard what all of our high officials did on that day, whether running to the ops room to take charge (Clarke) or running down a bunny hole (Bush).

We have systems in this country designed to protect our airspace from attack, especially along the eastern seaboard, where much of our commerce, population, and government lie, not to mention our national security centers, intelligence, and monuments. The dangers of attacks from the sky, in the form of hijacked planes, was well known for decades and accounted for in our security systems. There were procedures and systems in place for hijacked planes to be intercepted, for planes to be scrambled, etc.

This is the part of the whole 9/11 narrative that keeps sticking in my mind - it just doesn't make any sense at all. Is there any way that those systems couldn't have worked in time on 9/11? There was so much time lapsed between the hijacking of the first plane and the third plane hitting the Pentagon. It's becoming pretty clear that flight 93 was shot down, so there is at least some semblance of an interception system in place (though of course the government denies it).

It makes 9/11 impossible. 9/11 cannot have happened. There is no way, given the systems in place, that those planes got through the way they did, regardless of the actions of Bush or Cheney or Rumsfeld on that day. Which means that the systems were not in place.

Did the 9/11 committee even begin to address this? I don't care about Chimpy staring off into space for 7 minutes - I want to know about the failures at NORAD and the air traffic controllers, etc. Regardless of the fact that Ashcroft didn't put any money into fighting terrorism, we still had air defense for our country, didn't we?

Sorry for my ignorance on this point - any enlightenment on this is appreciated.

[indepat]

1. How many reasonable conclusions can be drawn from all systems

failing in unison?

[Joylaughter]

3. Critical Mass

That's what scares me. Soon every one will wake up to the big lie and "they" can't let that happen so we can expect the next 911 any time now in my humble opinion. I am scared out of my wits.

[Joylaughter]

4. Critical Mass

That's what scares me. Soon every one will wake up to the big lie and "they" can't let that happen so we can expect the next 911 any time now in my humble opinion. I am scared out of my wits.

[tinanator]

2. Dov Zackheim

Dov Zackheim - one of those who felt an attack ala Pearl Harbor was a necessity. Only he had more means, motive and opportunity than most.

[HysteryDiagnosis]

5. it just doesn't make any sense at all.

If you are planning a global adventure.... you may need something to enhance your ability to do so without the good graces of the rest of the "civilized world". Now, consider that you are going to attack countries that have never lifted a finger against you... even though you have bombed, made war upon, and applied sanctions to ad infinitum. Then you would really need an excuse to justify your actions.

Then if you really want to show the world what your true intentions were... you can put corporations that are tied to the wh in charge of almost all of the rebuilding... and certainly the oilfields. That is a sure way to express you totally good intentions towards the people whom you choose to invade.

[ProfessorPlum]

6. The consequences of 9/11 certainly support a conspiracy theory

The actions of the government since then certainly show where their money-grubbing, war-mongering hearts lie.

But I want to play devil's advocate for a minute and just assume that they neither let it happen on purpose or made it happen on purpose. That they military, intelligence, and governmental agencies in our country were surprised that day. Let's say they were suprised. Could 9/11 still have happened? Or was it an impossibility?

I still think it is impossible. Therefore, they were not surprised. QED. Can anyone refute that? Was 9/11 possible?

[lectrobyte]

7. I don't know, I seem to recall fighters intercepting

Payne Stewart's jet rather quickly after it went off course and didn't respond to radio calls. Now, find a 9/11 timeline and take a look. As far as planes as weapons, hadn't someone crashed into the whitehouse when Clinton was president? Hindsight is always clear, though, but I'd have thought all manner of planes would have been scrambled after the 1st tower was hit, and reports of hijacked airliners were received.

[ProfessorPlum]

10. exactly

there was more than enough time for that. And I don't think it would have relied on any one person giving the word. It would have been automatic.

In fact, many of those fighter plane squadrons on the eastern seaboard have reputations such that they can be scrambled in X number of minutes, like 10-15. They had over an hour to respond to the third plane.

Therefore, 9/11 couldn't have happened. It is an impossibility. How did the 9/11 deal with that?

[gbwarming]

14. You could read the comission report

http://www.gpoaccess.gov/911/

chapter one contains their analysis of the FAA and NORAD response

[ProfessorPlum]

18. Thanks very much for the link

I am reading the relevant chapter, and note that there was one hour and fourteen mintues between a recognized hijacking of flight AA11 and the crash of AA77 into the Pentagon. So far nothing about what might have stopped us from preventing that.

They allow 5 minutes for the air traffic controllers to make sure flight deviations and transponder problems are not a technical problem, so that buys them 5 minutes.

Then we come to this statement: "The threat
of terrorists hijacking commercial airliners within the United States—and using
them as guided missiles—was not recognized by NORAD before 9/11."

I haven't made it to the footnote on that assertion yet. But that has to be a whitewash and a lie. Both Steven King and Tom Clancy wrote popular novels about that very threat, years before. Don't give me that BS, please.

[ProfessorPlum]

19. Now I'm getting to the unbelievable part

I can maybe understand how they missed out on AA11. They had only 23 minutes between when they knew it was hijacked and the impact. And maybe you can even understand UN175, where they only had 12 minutes between when it was hijacked and it hit the second tower (though, that happened FORTY minutes after the first hijacking was known).

But there is just no way AA77 could have hit the Pentagon. In the official, whitewashing narrative, there is talk of confusion, or "software issues" with the radar tracking equipment, of the US being completely unprepared to deal with this, etc.

That part is just so completely BS. What a whitewash.

[Sterling]

23. Please watch my movie.

Click the link below plz.

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

8. Maybe it was an inside job?

[ProfessorPlum]

12. Hey, RiF! Nice to see you

It's been a while.

The Horse!!! The Torjan Horse!

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

22. Likewise, Prof.

Old Rovey doesn't look a day older does he?

[MadHound]

9. You're not alone in these and other questions friend

A lot of us want to know the answers, especially in light of previous actions taken. With a standing order in place since the late '60s to scramble NORAD fighter jets in the event of any hijacking or suspicious event in the air, it was obvious that this system was working in fall of '99 when golfer Payne Stewart's small jet veered off course, and eventually crashed. Within minutes, NORAD jets were up and had intercepted Stewart's craft, accompanying it cross country to it's eventual, tragic demise.

With this obvious, recent demonstration of readiness and competence by our defense systems, the lack of fighter jets on 911 is even more baffling. This I feel is one of the bigger smoking guns in the whole matter. There was at least forty five minutes between the first reports of a hijacking and when the first jet slammed into the north tower. Yet we are supposed to believe that this wasn't sufficient time to get fighter planes up? Sorry, I don't buy the BS. This catastrophic failure of our air defense points towards somebody high up in the administration countermanding this standing order. Which at the very minimum validates the LIHOP theory.

Further evidence that is slowly coming out reinforces this conclusion, and further evidence goes even further, making one believe that a MIHOP scenario is not only possible, but quite plausible.

Sad to say, this whole issue is playing out like the aftermath of the Kennedy assasination. Commissions are hand-picked, with their stated mission being to get to the bottom of this quandry, yet by their actions and omissions, it is obvious that their true mission being to provide cover and whitewash the inconsitentcies and embarrassing questions out of the way. And much like the aftermath of the Kennedy assasination, anyone who doesn't believe in the official story is branded as a paranoid kook, a conspiracy theorist, with their patriotism and very sanity questioned. These people are marginalized and ostrasized, in a vain attempt to wrap all of the loose ends and nagging questions into a nice tight package, palatible to the public, and hiding the real story.

I suspect that much like the Kennedy assasination, the work of these "conspiracy theorists" will eventually force another official reexamination of 911. Much like the House Committee on Assasinations, this future body will also be appointed with cover-up in mind, but will be so overwhelmed with contrary evidence that they will be forced to admit that there was a LIHOP/MIHOP conspiracy. Let us hope that on that future day, the public doesn't simply ho hum and let the matter drop like we did with the HCOA report that yes indeed, there was more than one shooter that day in Dallas, that the Kennedy assasination was indeed a conspiracy. Let us hope that we will have the collective cojones to stand up and demand that those responsible be answerable for their evil deeds they did on 911.

Until then, much like after the Kennedy assasination, it is our duty to investigate and inform people as much as possible. Do your research, and spread the word far and wide. Eventually with enough pressure, the other side will have to give.

[leesa]

11. The new information out that there were six mock attack situations

going on that morning which made the perfect cover for the Bush Crime Families attack against our nation. Ruppert's claim, apparently substantiated, is that NORAD had 22 hijacking blips on their screens and thus it took them awhile to discover there was a real attack.

The PROBLEM with this is that no one in our government is talking about these drills and the confusion therefore they are complicit in blocking the investigation into what happened that day. Cheney set up the drills and had control of that extremely unusual occurrence.

[ProfessorPlum]

13. I thought the mock hijacking scenarios were the day before

Obviously I have to get my tin foil hat re-fitted. :) But does anybody really believe that excuse? It sounds pretty thin. Has anyone actually spoken or gotten testimony from the person (people) who was "confused" that day?

[MadHound]

15. The mock hijacking scenarios are simply a smokescreen

Even when you are doing drills, you still have a crew on standby in case the real deal happens. This is true with agency charged with the well being of the public, be it the police, fire dept., or the military. This is SOP, there is always one shift that is "live", while the others drill.

As far as confusion due to the faux blips goes, that's more smoke and mirrors. The national media was reporting multiple, real hijackings at 8:00 am EST(I remember this story leading off the Today show on 911), therefore it was well known by all concerned that there was a hijacking situation truly going on. Let us assume that the NORAD jets would be coming out Andrews Air Force base. That is only a matter of ten-fifteen minutes away from New York. And yet they had forty-forty five minutes to respond, and they didn't show up until too late.

[BeFree]

17. Planned Confusion

For nearly forty five minutes, AA77 flew directly toward Washington DC.

It was a UFO for those forty five minutes. Wouldn't you think that a UFO, flying directly at DC, would have been a prority for those defending DC?

The confusion must have been well planned. Man, that Osama, he sure was smart to be able to decieve and confuse the defenders of DC.

_______________

This thread will be moved to the 9/11 forum in 22 minutes, 21, 20....

[bpilgrim]

20. VIGILANT GUARDIAN - military exercises on 911 allowed quicker response

Only one wargame exercise, vigilant guardian, was mentioned
in a footnote to the kean commission report and then it was
deliberately mislabeled as an exercise intended to intercept
russian bombers instead of a hijack exercise in the
northeast sector. Even then, a deliberate lie was told to
the american people as norad commander ralph eberhart
testified to the commission that the exercise actually
expedited us air force response during the attacks

more...
http://www.fromthewilderness.com/PDF/Commonwealth.pdf

things that make you go hmmmmmmm...

peace

[Search Party]

16. my answer is: NO

i am MIHOP all the way.

too many factors perfectly aligned, as you more or less stated.

terraists trained on cessnas and cubs, not trained to land, could have in no way performed the maneuvers they supposedly performed. period.

something stinks and it smells badly.

[Red Fox]

21. Actually, I've been reading a bit on that as well

http://www.cooperativeresearch.org/timeline/main/essayaninterestingday.html

Considering this

At approximately 8:13, Flight 11 was instructed by air traffic controllers at the FAA's Boston Center, in Nashua, New Hampshire, to climb to 35,000 feet. The plane did not obey the order and its transponder was turned off. Air traffic control manager Glenn Michael said, "we considered it at that time to be a possible hijacking." According to FAA regulations, that was the correct decision: "Consider that an aircraft emergency exists ... when ... there is unexpected loss of radar contact and radio communications with any ... aircraft."

If air traffic controllers believed Flight 11 had been hijacked at 8:13, NORAD should have been informed immediately, so military planes could be scrambled to investigate. However, NORAD and the FAA both claimed NORAD was not informed until 8:40 - 27 minutes later. Indeed, before contacting NORAD, Boston air traffic controllers watched Flight 11 make an unexpected 100-degree turn and head south toward New York City , told other controllers of the hijacking at 8:25 , continued to hear highly suspicious dialogue from the cockpit (such as, "Nobody move, please, we are going back to the airport. Don't try to make any stupid moves") , and even asked the pilots of Flight 175 to scan the skies for the errant plane.