No offense, Florida,......but....

[SoCalDem]

Ohio had a population of 11,435,798 as of 2003 and collected $$19.6 BILLION in state income taxes for the same period....

Florida, during the same period had a population of 17,019,068 and collected Z E R O in state income taxes..


The recent storm related incidents started me thinking that Florida (the STATE..not ALL the folks who live there) is getting a "free ride" of sorts..

Just as Walmart pays next to nothing, and sends its employees to the welfare department (at a cost to ALL OF US), Florida is doing the same thing, by not having an income tax (and there are some very rich folks who live there), they are using FEMA and National Flood Insurance(OUR MONEY...ALL OF US) as a "cut-rate" insurance company for the multitude of storm related claims that are a yearly event..

We have earthquakes here in CA, and have surely used FEMA, as well, but we ALSO pay HUGE state income taxes which pay for most of the reparations after disasters.. I would expect that most states operate the same way.. Most states have an emergency fund for recurring disasters.. If Florida keeps needing BILLIONS and BILLIONS of federal money...year after year, maybe it's time to start taxing some of those wealthy yacht-owners and citrus magnates...

Part of the allure of Florida has been the lack of a state income tax, but perhaps the time has come , for Florida to stop using the Federal Budget to subsidize their lack of preparedness..

The sheer folly of allowing manufactured homes in areas that are most certainly going to be destroyed routinely when storm season arrives, shows a total lack of common sense development... Providing a retirement place "on the cheap", and having their hand out to FEMA every year seems very fiscally irresponsible of the republican controlled government...After all, they ARE the party of "personal responsibility"...aren't they???

[ElsewheresDaughter]

1. as a native floridian I AGREE 100% and as a citizen i want a class action

suit against the state of florida for it's lax of building codes...i am sick of paying the cost for the states incompetence in keeping it's citizens safe...in the 60's we had strict building codes because of hurricanes and all those buildings from the 50s and 60s are all fine strong and still standing

[DoYouEverWonder]

52. The building codes in Florida

are currently probably the strictest in the country. But that is only true since Hurricane Andrew. Anything build here since 1992 did pretty well in the last two hurricanes. The problem is all the stuff that was build in the 70s and 80s, when the building codes were very inadequate. What to do? Tear all those buildings down? Mother Nature seems to be doing a fairly good job of it. However whatever is build to replace them, will probably be at least adequate to survive most hurricanes.

[barb162]

58. When I was watching coverage

they were showing the cops going door to door on some of the barrier islands. And they wanted mandatory evacuation of those islands and some people were staying in their trailer homes. Like it wouldn't take much to blow those things over and I can't understand why those areas are even zoned for those mobile home or trailer parks right on the beach. I know of a place in Tampa area, an over 50 community and it is completely comprised of hundreds of those trailers, single or double wide and they are right on the water. This one man who lives in one said "they" know that if a category 5 hits directly, there there will be a 20 ft wall of water going several miles into the Tampa area.

[jumpstart33]

57. Check out how many "red" states have no state income taxes and live on

the dole from the rest of us when disater strikes and for other social programs.

[barb162]

59. okay , like almost all of them?

I haven't checked as you can see.

[Catfight]

2. It has been reported that Insurance companies made money off

of Charley, I wouldn't worry about big corporations these days. Florida will never get a state tax, it would be the end of a career for any politician that even brought it up.

I'm a Floridian. My suggestion is to offer housing communities like in NY except more like houses in Florida since we have plenty of land. And I agree, we should outlaw blow-away homes.

[demnan]

3. I read in a Virginia paper

that Virginia used up all our emergency snow money in the flooding disaster Guston unleashed on Richmond a couple of weeks ago.

My brother and sister-in-law have fought this battle down in Florida for years trying to raise children in the schools down there. A lot of those rich old people are tight and don't want to contribute to the community in any way (they had theirs, screw your children).

[barb162]

28. oh yeah

I hear this a lot. The ORFs (old retired f---s) don't want to pay for the Florida schools so vote against the school referendums down there in many cities. Some people I know in the Tampa area with kids use private schools because the public schools are so lousy.

[TexasSissy]

4. I live in a state that doesn't have state income tax, either.

The way it works is this: We won't charge you state income tax, folks. Instead, we'll get the taxes through increased property taxes, sales taxes, other municipal taxes. Is that okay with you? We say, "Yeah. That way, we have one less tax return to prepare. And the taxes are distributed in accordance with ownership and consumption, rather than income."

So FL would be great to retire in, since there is no state income tax. But you can expect to pay more for real estate, incl. taxes, as well as other taxes. It all evens out. But for elderly people, who may have a bundle in retirement savings and a comfortable fixed income as a result, they come out ahead by paying ownership and consumption taxes over income taxes.

I think it more or less evens out. Ceasar still gets what is his.

[Justitia]

33. Yup - some would croak over what Texans pay in property tax

it really does come out in the wash.

Incidentally, when I lived in NC, I remember being able to deduct my state income taxes from my federal bill, further proof that it evens out?

[Misunderestimator]

35. I was going to respond similarly... our FL property and school taxes

make up the slack for the lack of an income tax (as well as a huge tourist base paying sales taxes). It has nothing to do with being supplemented by Federal funds during a disaster. A disaster is a disaster. Should every state on the coast have a special income tax to pay for disasters, or California and western states a special tax for earthquakes, or the Northeast for Nor'easters?

[Demonaut]

71. thanks, you took the words right outta my mouth but one thing too

they have a toll on just about every highway

[sevenrox]

82. Well said!

I think you summed it up perfectly.

[chelsea0011]

5. What would be the bursting point for FEMA and $$$$$$ handouts?

If Florida gets another or two hits, can the government just say enough is enough? There is only so much money, right? And is hurricane insurance mandatory in Florida? Try getting insurance in a flood zone across the country. It most likely won't happen unless you buy flood insurance.

[Blue Wally]

11. Since Andrew......

We folks in Florida have four household insurance premiums.

1. Normal household insurance like everyone else has on their homes.

2. If you live in a "windstorm prone" area, your household insurance excludes wind damage. The state of Florida sponsors a windstorm insurance pool much like the federal government sponsors a flood insurance pool. You need a standard windstorm policy which comes with a 2% deductible. If your house is worth $200,000, you foot the first $4,000 of the loss yourself.

3. If you live in a "flood zone" you need standard flood insurance from the federal pool (note this is not subsidzed by the federal government, but they guarantee it won't go bankrupt).

4. Since standard flood insurance has a maximum limit, you need "excess flood insurance" if you have a higher end house.

If you do not live in a flood zone in the US, you do not subusidize any Florida flood claims. No one elsewhere in the US will subsidize the wind damage claims for houses in a "windstorm prone area".

[barb162]

31. that's bullshit

when a national insurer like Allstate or State Farm suffers Florida hurricane losses, we all pay across the country because they are spreading the losses out among all homeowner policyholders. All rates across the country will go up next year attributable to florida losses. And I bet a lot of the houses damaged shouldn't have been there in the first place. It's not like this is "unforseen loss." This is on about the same level as a house in CA being put right on the San Andreas fault.

[Misunderestimator]

36. Or a house in CA being consumed by a forest fire... How could that be...

foreseen?

[barb162]

38. good point except that

the houses damaged by fire in CA are an infinitesimal fraction of the houses damaged by hurricanes in Florida.

[Misunderestimator]

41. Most homeowners near the coast and in low-lying flood-prone areas

of Florida are required to have flood-insurance by their mortgage companies. Anyone who doesn't purchase flood insurance is an idiot if they live in one of those areas. However, the extensive damage caused by these two hurricanes this year is HIGHLY unusual.

Most of the people repairing the damage to their homes, including me, will not go to FEMA, but will go through their insurance companies for the repairs.

I think requiring EVERYONE in the state to pay additional taxes for the possibility of a hurricane hitting Florida is a bit over-the-top. It should extend to Mississipi, and Louisiana, and Texas, and South Carolina... etc. SW Florida has NOT been directly hit by a hurricane in over 75 years.

So should we just do the analysis and figure out which coastal states and regions within those states have been hit by the most financially catastrophic hurricanes and earthquakes and floods and blizzards and fires and then require them to pay additional taxes?

[barb162]

50. insurance companies already have that data at their fingertips

and the states could choose to tax however they want. If they were smart wouldn't they tax the areas of the individual states that are on the coasts, like a special tax district. Who is talking about EVERYONE in a state.... I am saying other states shouldn't pay for recurring types of damage. For example, when I look at NC why should people in Charlotte, well inland, pay for the hurricane damage of those people living right on the NC coast in view of the ocean. I think the best solution would be for the coastlines to be made into parks if they are at high risk of hurricane or else requiring hurricane proof construction and things like that. Or zoning for way better construction (concrete?)and/or no mobile homes along the coast where the wind is the highest.

Blizzards and fires are not big dollar catastrophes as compared to hurricanes, there's simply no comparison. Big quakes are going to be far worse than hurricanes if they hit in heavily populated areas as we all know and that is something insurers know will happen but they are of less frequency.

I sincerely hope Ivan turns north and doesn't hit the US.

[SoCalDem]

55. There was a town in the midwest that did just that

They made the whole waterfront a public use area.. park..ball fields...boat docks.. and moved the whole town inland..

When we used to live near Lake Michigan, the rich folks built these enormous houses into the bluffs, so that you could not even SEE the Lake, and they made the public access areas all but un-useable,,they would "accidentally" block them with trash cans, firewood,etc...

BUT when we had a cycle of winter storms that eroded the beach right out from under their houses, they were begging and howling for people to come and "help" them..

Some clever soul wrote a LTTE that suggested they use all their "Posted".."Keep Out".."Private".."No Trespassing" signs as their new seawall..

But in the end, people did help them..companies donated rip rap to help them shore up their sagging sea walls..

[barb162]

64. great story

and I think I know the area you are referencing. They needed ZERO help except to get a ride in their limos to the bank to withdraw a few million to fix the riprap.
A few years ago the Mississippi flooded way more than normal. SOme people had built houses in the flood plain on "unowned" land and lived there I guess, for a few years. SO then the giant spring flood came and they were whining, oh, got no house. As I recall they got zero as they NEVER should have built there in the first place.

[Misunderestimator]

60. They already ARE charging people in these areas more...

through increased taxation and requisite flood insurance. On the barrier islands off Florida, they not only require flood insurance, but wind insurance, and the premiums are OUTLANDISH.

In the area where I lived (before I moved last year), which was quite close to the beaches of Sanibel Island and Fort Myers Beach, it was zoned in a way that required one (by the mortgage company or bank) to have flood insurance. I paid an additional $1200 a year for that insurance (which I never used) on TOP of my homeowner's insurance which was a third of the cost at only $400.

[jumpstart33]

61. The insurance companies should just charge those in the disaster area

three times or more the rates charged in non-disater areas. If you choose to build you play home near the water, fine...just pay for it!

[amazona]

42. I have allstate and I'm confident this is not necessarily true

Homeowner's insurance has been their loss leader for years on end to attract homeowners (good risk) to their auto and other insurance programs.

I've had Allstate for almost 15 years in a Gulf Coast state and my rates have been very reasonable. They did not go up after Andrew, or for many years thereafter, even though we had storm damage in my neighborhood from Andrew.

[barb162]

74. this is an unusual story

my homeowner rates went up when there were storms several states away.

[Blue Wally]

46. not bullshit.......

My homeowners policy specifically excludes losses due to "windstorm". I live in Pompano Beach. I have to have a separate "windstorm" policy (with a 2% deductable). The windstorm pool is administered by the state of Florida, though the policies are written by insurance companies. Let me "google" for a thread and I will post again. I kid you not, I pay four separate insurance premiums on my house.

[Blue Wally]

48. Here is a Miami herald article on the Florida windstorm program

Link:


http://www.miami.com/mld/miamiherald/8756616.htm

[teach1st]

6. No offense taken

"a total lack of common sense development"

That says it all. Almost.

The people with money have it bad during these storms, so think about the people without money, who in general live in the most dangerous housing during storms. Sometimes there is no car to get to a shelter. No extra money to stock up on food and supplies.

I didn't see one raincoat reporter in the poorer sections of my area. I guess the damage only extended to the better-off areas.

[Ripley]

8. TWC actually positions it's reporters in the Ritzy areas.

And they always make comments like "these are million dollar yachts!" or "This beach front property is worth millions!"

I always think so what? That means they belong to rich people who no doubt have insurance and will have no problem rebuilding and living the good life in the Ritz Carlton while they rebuild. It is pretty callous that they focus on the dollar amounts of damage instead of the real tragedy of regular and poor people becoming homeless and living like refugees for weeks if not months.

[Retrograde]

18. my "good restaurants" theory of coverage

Same thing happened in 1989 after the Loma Prieta earthquake: the bulk of the coverage was in San Francisco, a noted tourist destination. The town of Watsonville, about 100 miles to the south, much closer to the epicenter, and home to a large Hispanic farmworker population, had its downtown almost totally destroyed but got almost no national coverage. That's when I formulated my "good restaurant" theory of disaster coverage: your area is more likely to get national coverage during routine storms (c'mon, hurricanes in Florida in September? who would have thought?) if there are (preferably expensive) comfortable places for reporters to hang out when they're not on camera. Can't have the talent suffer along with the real folks.

I noticed one of the channels was broadcasting from Disneyworld.

[Ripley]

37. Yes TWC is now in the advertising business for tourism.

Count the times they tell us how soon Disneyworld will be re-opening. Like that's their job.

You really hear the pity the rich folks when forest fires are burning. They'll stand in the charred out remains of some 5 mill home on a mountain top and tell you how devastating it is for them. But you won't see them interview the poor folks in cabins or the local Park Ranger that can tell you how devastated the park and animal population is.

[SoCalDem]

39. Actually, they do...

We rescue animals like crazy out here when the fires come.. People with horse trailers go rounding up horses and marking them with spray paint so owners can reclaim them.. Our shelters accept animals..all kind of animals..

the fires we had last year were in lots of poor areas, and they were on tv non-stop..and people who did not even know them, were offering them shelter.. dropping off stuff anonymously for them..

I am not saying that Floridians do not do this, but we DO take care of the poor people here..at least we try..

When we had firemen working round the clock near where I live, I went to the store and bought bread,lunch meat, cookies and jugs of water and fruit punch.. I made 100 sandwiches, and packed styrofoam coolers...took them out to the firefighters.. They started to turn me away, and I rolled my window down, and said... "Take this food, before I turn around".. Before I could say anything else, I had about 7 hungry soot-blackened men and a few women, eagerly removing the coolers.. I didn't know them..and they didn't know me.. but I was thankful for their hard work..

I am sure that other people help too, but it's not only rich folks that need help..and we know it out here..

[calico1]

7. A coworker and I were talking just this

morning about the trailer parks and other weakly constructed homes in Fla and other hurricane prone areas of the country. Its amazing to me that there are so many of these type homes and in a place that can be so vulnerable. And sometimes so close to the water.

I have to agree about the income tax. Federal relief means bailout from taxpayers and for a State that can be so vulnerable there really should be some other sources of revenue besides tourism and whatever other taxes Fla might have. A lot of states that are less vulnerable have a State tax.

[Not Me]

9. I couldn't agree more (re: mobile homes)

That must be one huge lobby in Tallahassee.

The first premise about state income taxes is not quite on the mark. Florida makes its operating budget in large part by sales taxes, especially occupancy taxes on hotel rooms, and use charges on rental cars. This can cause problems when there is a downturn in the economy (ie post-9/11) but otherwise, it meets the budget needs of the state without a separate income tax.

The FEMA, etc dollars coming in are the same dollars that any other state would request after an earthquake, wildfires, flooding, blizzard/ice storm etc.

[greekspeak]

10. Coming from a state w/ state income tax & personal property tax to FL...

I find that I pay MORE but in other ways. Let me say that I am GLAD to pay my taxes. It is part of my responsibilities as a citizen. A lot of what my personal property taxes paid for, like fire service, is on my utility bill, and costs me a LOT more than I had to pay in Missouri. I pay much more for gas because the gas taxes are higher. Property (real estate) taxes are higher. Car tags are higher. Drivers liscences are higher. Sales taxes just a bit higher. So don't pontificate to Floridians like you are doing. We pay taxes too, and plenty of them.

[SoCalDem]

13. Not "pontificating"..

Here in CA, we pay BIG property taxes, the highest gasoline taxes,high state taxes,and even locality taxes...in addition to 8% sales taxes...so I understand taxation.. but it's all part of the price we must pay to live in a "pretty place"...

Every state has emergencies now and then, BUT when something happens EVERY YEAR, it becomes a "recognized and regular hazard"...not an emergency.. If a category 3 hurricane struck New York, I would call THAT an emergency or if a blizzard hit Phoenix......

Hurricanes in Florida, are very much like wildfires our here. we expect them..they are not a rare occurence...and.. when revenues decline due to them, the treasury dips even further...FEMA funds are distributed with that in mind as well, so we are not only paying for hurricane relief, but you have to know that lots of that money is going to wealthy folks with businesses..... who have laid off their workers (who probably don't get a dime)...

Equity and fairness should be the goal...

[greekspeak]

16. But your state uses money for a lot of things Florida does not have

California has a kick-ass public transportatation system. They have a pretty damn amazing interstate system. The university system kicks butt. California uses taxes and stringent laws to control things like auto emmisions. Plus, help has to be sent to California when there are earthquakes, landslides, wildfires, etc.

I agree with what a lot of posters are saying. Florida could get away without burdening taxpayers a lot more by invoking stronger building codes, putting in place better preparedness plans, and cutting out a whole lot of pork.

[SoCalDem]

19. They could, but probably won't

Imagine how much more expensive it would be to live there if there were more stringent codes..The low threshhold is what makes Florida attractive to lots of folks on fixed incomes, but when there is a disaster, they suffer the most.. I wonder how many of those elderly people lost everything...and were probably unbderinsured..

the zillionaires with the fancy yachts and beachfront properties, will always land on their feet...it's always the little guy who loses.. I would just like to see some of those well off people start paying their fair share..

Part time residents can and regularly DO pay taxes in two states..We have done it in the past ourselves.. The tax forms can accomodate income "earned" in two states..


as for the kick ass public transportation system?? SanFrancisco has Bart, and there as a few trains here and there, but for the most part it's "a creeping parking-lot" for almost every mile of free way we have out here :(..

When I worked, I had to be at work at 4:45 AM, and it was 57 miles each way to work.. My commute was ..."move 2 feet...stop....move 2 feet...stop..."...

California has a very reciprocal arrangement with the neighboring states, and often, OUR firefighters are somewhere else when fires break out here..

I am not disparaging Floridians...just commenting that when a state has as many emergencies as Florida has, is it really fair to not capture as much income as possible...as a reserve for when times are rough...and any surplus could ceratinly be put to use in your "long-suffering" schools...

[Kanary]

17. "Equity and fairness should be the goal"

You have brought up an important point, and once again I'm dismayed that so many people STILL do not get that those toher taxes hit the poor a whole lot harder than they hit the middle class. Higher gas taxes? Sure, "everyone" thinks that's a great idea..... cuts down consumption, right? WRONG. The rich drive just as much, but the poor may lose their only transportation to even *have* a job. Same with sales taxes..... the middle class doesn't even notice it, but the poor are paying with their last pennies.

Yes, equity and fairness would be a good start.

Kanary

[Blue Wally]

49. Except that.......

Until this year, most of the FEMA money has gone to Virginia and the Carolinas. Florida hasn't taken a big hit since Andrew in 92 (until this year).

[DrWeird]

12. But I like living on a barrier island!

It's the governments fault that they keep washing away, so they should be the ones to pay so I can keep building my houses.

:evilgrin:

[Ganja Ninja]

14. State income taxes don't have anything to do with FEMA money.

And we pay federal income taxes down here just like you. In that way we contribute for disasters like floods and tornado's in the mid-west, earthquakes and fires in the west and blizzards and ice damage in the north.

The state uses sales tax and and other taxes like hotel taxes to get the revenues other states get from income taxes. They do that because so many residents are seasonal or short term and wouldn't contribute to the revenue base in a proportional way otherwise.

As far as the billions and billions of dollars you refer to. Bush has asked congress for two billion for hurricane relief for Florida. (2 billion for Florida - 200 billion for Iraq) Most of the money spent rebuilding is insurance money.

[teach1st]

15. Speaking of the manufactured homes lobby in Florida...

The Florida Manufactured Housing Association would like you to know how safe their homes are...

http://www.fmha.org/myths.html

[Ganja Ninja]

26. The more expensive they are to build ....

The more expensive they are to replace. Building to handle a 140 mph wind would be no problem if all you had to face was wind. When an oak tree comes flying at your house that's another story. You would have to build nothing but concrete bunkers to be truly hurricane proof.

I saw the damage Andrew did in Miami. It destroyed well built commercial structures. It tore parts of the taxiways out the ground at Homestead AFB. There is no reasonable way you can build to withstand that type of destructive force.

[Centre_Left]

20. Nice response...

...I love how some people presume the right to lecture others from completely different states about tax policy, when they obviously have no idea what they are talking about.

[Tracer]

21. While watching some pre-Florida Frances TV coverage ...

... I saw some interviews with Bahamians who live in Abaco.

They were mentioning their building codes Ñ which insist on CONCRETE construction of homes.

Now I doubt very much that Bahamians are particularly wealthy. So, if they can have strict building codes for safer homes, why can't Floridians?

[DaveSZ]

22. How long has the GOP controlled the state house?

[Blue Wally]

53. Not very long

GOP takeover of legislature and governors office doesnt date back very far.

[SoCalDem]

23. Because Jebbie would lose lots of votes

if he started pushing for regulations.. and we know how repubes hate regulations..

[Blue Wally]

51. Have you been to the Bahamas???

Lots and lots of pretty flimsy houses there (especially on Grand Bahama island).

[barb162]

24. some solutions and if Ivan hits Florida....

get ready for more screaming.

A lot of retires move there for the sun and also the low taxes.

Maybe they should rezone or zone out the manufactured and mobile homes and then there would be less damage. Also make parks of the barrier islands instead of allowing people to live there in mobile homes. Make parks everywhere within 5 blocks of the water in the very low lying areas. Or if people insist on living there, no more insurance! Same thing with South Carolina, GA, and everywhere else they get pounded by hurricanes but insist on putting these houses right on the shore. OR build the houses hurricane proof through the building codes. Everyone else is paying for this crap.

[noonwitch]

25. They should at least be raising enough to handle their weather

Every year, at least one hurricane of some level seems to hit Florida. Every year, FEMA has to use funds to assist. Last spring, we had major flooding in parts of Michigan north of Detroit. The fed dragged their feet about whether FEMA was going to assist people. Eventually they did, but at least a month after the flood.

Florida needs to ban mobile homes, or at least better restrict where they are allowed (like none within 5 miles of the ocean or gulf).

You dredge a swamp to make a state, but then expect us to bail you out every time nature tries to make it a swamp again?

[istruthfull]

27. assumptions

Your assuming that people are going to get the promised help.FEMA is taking applications left and right doesn't mean that they are going to help. I'm sure for whatever reason they will not be able to give any answers for request of assistance until "DEC". You're forgetting that these are regular people and this administration is not about helping regular people. Most of this assistance,most, is not a give-away. These are "loans", let me say that again...most of this assistance is in the form of LOANS and not free-bees.
It is cheaper to buy a CA orange than it is to by a local one. When first getting tags for a car there is and extra $100 impact fee. My electric is taxed several times and the tax is taxed. Fees and taxes for all sorts of things with some of the countries lowest wages. No state taxes = free ride.. yeah right since the big corporations don't have to pay taxes anymore (or barely) were is this money coming from? Appearances can be very deceiving.

[SoCalDem]

32. Somebody is snookering ALL of us.. Florida produce is cheaper out here

and in strawberry season, we pay MORE than my mother (in Kansas) used to pay for "California" strawberries...

No doubt the FEMA money goes FIRST to Jebbie...so is it any ownder that his pals would get "pick of the litter"???

[Blue_Roses]

29. well said!

:)

[kerry-is-my-prez]

30. We don't spend money to widen our roads either - which is another problem

During a hurricane we would NEVER be able to evacuate large numbers of people. Of course, COngress turned down our request to have our roads widened.

[barb162]

34. what's wrong with doing state "tollway" fees

and not using federal money. Build the roads with state bonds versus federal money.

[amazona]

40. let me point out one thing needs to be corrected

Unless there is something about Florida I don't know, let me assure you that all homeowners who collect on their flood insurance have paid into a special flood insurance policy. There is no free ride on flood insurance. I write a check every year and have never collected one penny on it and never hope to but it is NO giveaway or handout. The deductibles would make your head explode compared to regular homeowners insurance.

A lot of money people get from FEMA is loans. Not a gift. Not a hand-out. But a low interest loan. Loans must be repaid.

[SoCalDem]

43. We cannot afford earthquake insurance

The last time we checked, the DEDUCTIBLE was 25K.. If we ever were affected by one, we would just have to walk away.. We could not afford a loan...not could we afford the deductible..


I wonder how many FEMA loans are defaulted on.. The people who would need help the most, are the least likely to be able to afford any "extra" payments..

I have no proof, but with Jebbie in charge of the money, I would bet money (if I had any) that the ones first at the trough, will be the well-off who "have connections".. If the damage is what entitles them to it, you can bet a rich person will never turn down a low cost loan..

[Djinn]

78. stupid question

is a deductible what we here call an excess - ie the amount you have to front up first before getting a payout? if so - bloody hell that's a lotta cash, why would most people even bother getting quake insurance, when your home (and possiblly work) is flattened how do you come up with 25 grand?

[SoCalDem]

86. That's why most people do not have it..

home prices are so inflated out here, that by the time you pay your property taxes and sometimes over $2k a month house payments, who's got the money for the policy premiums (which are also high), knowing that you will be responsible for the huge deductible anyway??

The difference with quakes, is that there is almost always extreme structural damage to foundations, walls, everything, so in some cases, it's like starting from scratch..

[jumpstart33]

63. Get the infor on just how many are written off. FEMA is broke you know?

The issue is cash-flow. If I have to pay high insurace because I live in the inner city, the same should apply in all other risk situations. I would like to see a comparrison of home and auto insurace rates across the nation. I would also like to see a chart by state of how much each state put into the Fed coffers via taxes and how much they get back in subsidies and other payouts.

[TankLV]

44. I live in Las Vegas, and we don't have any state income taxes either.

That's why all of you should come pay us a visit and lose bigtime so we still don't have to pay!

Gambling pays for our needs.

I believe Florida and the rest of the states pay FEDERAL income taxes - that is supposed to pay for any such services that are mentioned in your post.

There is still a flow of money from state that pay more like NY and CA to states that pay less - and I agree that that should stop and be rectified.

[SoCalDem]

45. Hi Nevada.. I make "deposits" in your state twice a year

:).. I love Las vegas... I won big a few times, and I am sure that I have "repaid" your generosity, many times over :):)

[madfloridian]

47. We have 5 million still without power.

We were without cable all morning, just as soon as it came on, power went off.

We have neighbors who have not had power for 2 days, right across the street. There is no pattern to it. Power comes and goes, cable comes and goes, flooded streets.

I agree with the income tax, and I detest the huge corporate tax breaks Jeb has given....some 8 billion. Many of us have tried, but the GOP owns Florida lock, stock, and barrel.

We are trying, but our own Democrats here work against to keep Democrats in who are really Republicans.

Wait till our lives resemble normal again, think we will start trying again. :cry:

[barb162]

54. is your house okay. I just can't even imagine what it is like with

no a/c. with the humidity...

[Blue Wally]

56. FPL is doing a damn good job.....

Power has already been restored to over half the people who have lost it in their area of the state. Not sure how TECO is doing over on the west side.

[Misunderestimator]

62. I was without power for 3 hours on Saturday... TECO had it restored

quickly, but many of the neighbors aren't so lucky.

[madfloridian]

65. Trees damaged by water and wind are falling now. On power lines.

Just found out that is why our power was out all afternoon, a fallen tree. Power company is doing well on it, but there is no stability to it.

[sweetheart]

66. aren't we all complaining indirectly about the military budget?

It strikes me that this entire argument takes place while every
american is being sucked dry to run a global military empire
that has made us all collectively poor. Were that money returned
to "us", disaster relief is a tiny problem.

By my figuring, if a house is built on a place that has natural
disasters, then the owners must be aware, by the law of common sense
that such disasters will strike. The taxpayer should help you
with emergency relief, but hardly should be expected to help rebuild
in a stupid place.

California fires, burn a lotta houses in places where all the natural
plant species reproduce naturally from burning every 20 or so years.
Hmmm.. then the fires are natural, and don't expect pity when your
mountaintop palace goes up in a flash.

Root to much of this, is our cultural sense of building for longevity. I visited Saba, a small carribean island after a
hurricaine. Not a single tree had a leaf on it, but every single
house was standing... concrete and dutch construction standards.
Designing for longevity wouldn't hurt us one bit, and we are reaping
our own karma for focusing too much on the short term at the cost
of our more realistic longevity.

If we had the money back that is wasted on stupid foreign invasions,
then none of this would be an issue... none.

[WarIsPeace]

67. None of us should be paying income tax www.861.info my friend!

All of the money which is payed through "income tax" goes directly to the elite few who own the Federal Reserve.* None of our tax money goes to funding schools, roads, and the like. Our government takes out a fresh loan from the fed w/interest to pay for our social programs at the expense of all of us tax payers. None of us are getting a "free ride"!!
And if you think the government needs money for roads and stuff I suggest reading their own "Comprehensive Annual Financial Report" at www.CAFRMAN.com

A short exerpt from cafrman.com:

"State Governments Have $612 Billion of Your Tax Money That They Are Not Using.
That Equals $2,149 for every man, woman, and child in the U.S.A. or $8,596 for a family of 4."

* For info on who owns the Fed check out "Money Masters" Video 1 and 2 for free at http://www.lastingnetworks.com/alex/

[Bread and Circus]

68. FEMA is a Federal Program, no?

If so, don't Floridians pay Federal Taxes?

If so, it may be an issue but not as bad as the OP indicates.

[Cleita]

69. How does Florida rank in property taxes?

I know we here in California don't make the wealthy pay for the privilege of owning the best real estate. If we did we could solve most of our budget problems. If Florida, like Oregon, makes up for the lack of sales tax with higher property taxes, is some of the revenue used to help out in times of disaster?

[sevenrox]

81. Our Property Taxes Are Insane in FL

While what we pay may not seem high to say, a Californian, it's all relative. We have a much lower cost of living here but lower wages, too. Nonetheless, property taxes in Florida have gone up astronomically in the past 15 years. And while we don't have a state income tax, they sales-tax us like crazy down here. Believe me, the state of Florida collects plenty. There are no free rides to be had down here unless you're a friend of Jebbie and Georgie!

[Misunderestimator]

83. My property taxes are going up 25% this year alone, and that's IF

they don't pass additional increases. And you're spot on about the wages here. I was planning to move to California instead of Florida a few years ago and the job I was offered there paid 40% more than my current salary. My priority at the time was to have a nice big house with a swimming pool and a yard (and never have to shovel snow again)... couldn't afford that in the area of CA where the job would have been.

[quaker bill]

70. No offense but Florida does tax it's citizens

Florida collects it's revenue by sales tax. Interestingly, unlike your lovely state income tax in California, our sales tax is not deductible on our Federal tax returns. Because of this, citizens of Florida pay a higher effective income tax rate to the federal government than the fortunate citizens of states like California that have an income tax.

[Carolina]

72. I couldn't agree more

when I saw some of the wealthy yacht owners lamenting their total luxury loss, I couldn't help but think about the fact that they were likely tax dodging repukes.

On the hand, it was truly heart-rending to see the poorer folks, especially those who were in the crosshairs of both Charley and Frances.

[Justice]

73. Yes, and When Will the Power Lines Be Put Underground?

I watch all the power lines snapped and broken, and think, why aren't Florida Power and Light and other electric companies mandated to put power lines underground? Why is a state that suffers hurricanes allowing power companies to put in above ground power lines?

[Fedral]

76. The power lines CAN'T be put underground

Sorry Justice, but that is simply not practical here in Florida. With the water table being as high as it is, if the lines were buried, we would have power lines sitting in water. (Not something ANYONE wants.)

Also as to Florida not paying 'Income Tax, this is true, but this is because we add surcharges on many things that would not have extra taxes in YOUR state. Since our economy is tourism based, we have many taxes and charges on hotels and many other 'touristy' areas. Other states have a great manufacturing base that can provide taxes for their states, we have Mickey Mouse.

[1gobluedem]

84. Every touristy area has an additional tax

We have income tax here in Michigan but there are also substantial taxes added to hotel rooms in almost any area that attracts tourists or out of towners. That tax usually goes directly to support the convention and business industry. For example, the state sales tax in Michigan is 6% but hotels here in Ann Arbor tax at 12% (or right around that figure).

Manufacturing doesn't carry our state anymore thanks to twelve years of evil John Engler (now collecting a fat salary in Virginia instead of sticking around the state he destroyed, leaving our Democratic governor to endure the heat as she valiantly tries to balance the budget with state revenues dwindling) and his evil cohort Bush*. Almost 200,000 jobs lost in the last three years. All outsourced to different countries.

[Mr Bojangles]

75. Just a quick note before I head to work...

While FEMA does a lot to help the severly burdened in these situations, a good number of people got a "token sum" after Charley went through.

Something to the tune of $1.65

Just because FEMA is helping, doesn't mean that it's all golden.

[madfloridian]

77. I believe a $5000 loan is all a person can get for a home.

Even if it is totalled. Correct me if I am wrong. Yes, they were mailing out checks to folks for $1.65 or $1.95, can't remember which.

And now all the insurance companies will be screaming and yelling and raising rates or just leaving.

[Blue Wally]

80. Why the state had to sponsor windstorm insurance

After Andrew, the insurance companies refused to write homeowners policies along the coast unless they had a windstorm exclusion. Along the coast, you have to have a separate (and expensive) windstorm policy with a high deductible plus a separate flood policy if you also live in a flood zone.

[Name removed]

79. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[gator_in_Ontario]

85. I was born in Florida

and our lack of state income tax is more than made up by the tourist taxes....so we do and have always, paid our way.
Sorry if I seem a bit snippy, but I still don't know if I have a house left. Just found out this morning that my aunt and uncle survived.