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bindersen Donating Member (79 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-06-04 05:26 PM
Original message
Did the bin Ladens get a plane out of the US
the day after the attacks as stated in Fahrenheit 911 or not? Is it a lie? I'm not sure, so I ask you.
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Catfight Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-06-04 05:28 PM
Response to Original message
1. Yes, Tampa Airport flew the Bin Laden family out and confirmed it
on 9/13. It was published in the St. Petersburg Times as well. This is fact.
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Dookus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-06-04 05:28 PM
Response to Original message
2. well
since the movie didn't state that, you're just repeating an oft-debunked right-wing talking point. Welcome to DU.
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Vickers Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-06-04 05:30 PM
Response to Reply #2
3. Things that make you go hmmmmmmm
:spank:
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Dookus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-06-04 05:30 PM
Response to Reply #3
5. indeed...
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Bunny Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-06-04 06:15 PM
Response to Reply #5
20. The Op has had a full day.
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bindersen Donating Member (79 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-06-04 05:34 PM
Response to Reply #2
9. ah, two days after the attacks then, my mistake
Edited on Mon Sep-06-04 05:36 PM by bindersen
I've heard that it was all BS, and that they were flown out when other planes could also fly again. Thanks btw.
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Fescue4u Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-06-04 05:40 PM
Response to Reply #2
11. HUH?
Sure it did. It made a very good point that the Bin Ladens were flown out of the country during the ban.

Just one of many things that the Moore dug up against Bush.
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Dookus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-06-04 05:42 PM
Response to Reply #11
13. No
the movie did NOT claim that Bin Ladens were flown out of the country the day after the attacks.
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Fescue4u Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-06-04 09:02 PM
Response to Reply #13
26. If you are talking about F.911
I remember it quite clearly that the Bin Ladens were wisked away during the flight ban.

Moore couldnt not have been more clear about it. I remember it was in the context of discussing Ricky Martin (or some other singer) who like most regular Americans could not travel.

I don't understand why folks are attacking Moore on this. This is factual and has been verified.

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seemslikeadream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-06-04 05:30 PM
Response to Original message
4. And small aircraft flying ban was put BACK into effect
before the planes took off. A fact the 9/11 Commission seems to have left out.
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DoYouEverWonder Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-06-04 05:31 PM
Response to Original message
6. Yes, it happened
Richard Clarke wrote all about it in his book.

During the period of time, that no commercial flights were allowed, the bin Ladens and other prominent Saudis, flew on private planes to pick up points around the country. Then as soon as the flight ban was lifted, the WH provided them free passage out of the country.

The FBI supposedly were okay with this.


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Dookus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-06-04 05:32 PM
Response to Reply #6
8. but notice that's not what the OP asked...
s/he asked a very different question. One that has been debunked a thousand times. The movie did NOT state what s/he asserted it did.

Of course, that lie was propagated endlessly by right-wingers, just so they could "debunk" it. It's called a straw-man.
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Fescue4u Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-06-04 05:41 PM
Response to Reply #8
12. Moore was quite clear
That the Bin Ladens were flown out during the ban.

No straw man about it.

If they were not flown out during the ban, it wouldnt be much of a point and Moore wouldnt have filmed it.
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Dookus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-06-04 05:42 PM
Response to Reply #12
14. Sorry, you're simply mistaken
the movie did not state what you think it did.
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Fescue4u Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-06-04 09:05 PM
Response to Reply #14
27. F.911 did
See post above.

Moore was quite clear that the Bin ladens were flown all around, while "ricky martin" could not.

If Im mistaken, perhaps you could clarify what F.911 who referring to.
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Dookus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-06-04 09:15 PM
Response to Reply #27
28. F911
NEVER claimed that the Bin Laden family was flown out of the country on September 12th, despite what you believe.

The family was GATHERED using flights WITHIN the US immediately after 9/11, while there was a flight ban.

They were flown OUT of the country AFTER the ban was lifted.

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Old and In the Way Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-06-04 05:32 PM
Response to Original message
7. A few days after 9/11, but before the US ban on air travel was lifted.
One would think that the family of the mastermind of 9/11 who killed 3000 people would be fair game to hold for information on the guy's whereabouts. I;ll bet there are a whole lot of other people in Guatanamo that know a whole lot less about OBL and Al Qaeda than the people who were given safe passage out of the country.
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Dr Fate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-06-04 05:36 PM
Response to Original message
10. Why did they leave at all, were they not enjoying their stay?
I dont understand why they had to leave so quickly at all.

Why arent they still here, in case we need them to help us find their family member?

Somthing fishy is going on, why were they allowed to leave w/o being deposed?

When will the public get to see the transcripts from their interrogations?

I dont believe Moore ever said they left the day after, I think he just pointed out that they left awfully fast, w/o being fully investigated.
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LiberalVoice Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-06-04 05:49 PM
Response to Reply #10
15. Interrogations? What interrogations?
They were never interrogated/investigated.

They did not leave the country the day after 9/11. They were flown in from different parts of the country and were all flown to Saudi Arabia together. Well before the flight ban was lifted.
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Dr Fate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-06-04 05:56 PM
Response to Reply #15
16. That was my point. They were never properly interrogated.
I still want to know why they wanted to leave the good 'ol USA so fast.

They seemed to be enjoying themsleves just fine up to that point.

THIS is the question that Freep-tard "debunkers" need to adress.
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Keirsey Donating Member (508 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-06-04 05:57 PM
Response to Reply #10
18. I want to know

Which Saudi left on SEPTEMBER 11 from Atlanta.

http://tinypic.com/4hqit


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Dr Fate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-06-04 06:02 PM
Response to Reply #18
19. I dont care WHEN they left, I want to know WHY they left.
I dont care if they left on 9/11 or on 9/30.

What i want to know is "Why ya leaving so soon, Mr. & Mrs Bin Laden?, What is the hurry, Mr. & Mrs. Bin Laden?"
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LiberalVoice Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-06-04 06:28 PM
Response to Reply #19
21. Well contrary to popular belief...
America wasn't united under the cause to fight terrorism. They were united to beat the shit out of/kill anyone who even looked remotely middle eastern. And of course because most americans are stupid they even beat up a few east asians, and oriental people aswell.

I had friends who got jumped by 3 or more guys because they were arab. And a friend of the family was shot in the head because she was wearing a scarf.

I have no doubts they rushed out because if people knew they were arab let alone that they were related to OBL they would be in danger.
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Dr Fate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-06-04 06:36 PM
Response to Reply #21
24. I see. So protecting the "Good Bin Ladens" was our top priority...
...as opposed to extensive investigations as to where there boy was.

"Why ya leaving so soon, Mr. & Mrs. Bin Laden? Sit down, relax,enjoy your stay- answer a few questions, nobody can hurt you here..."

You make it sound like angry villagers would storm their Waldorf Astoria suites or somthing- I aint buying it.
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LiberalVoice Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-07-04 04:36 AM
Response to Reply #24
30. They had to leave their houses some time.
Edited on Tue Sep-07-04 04:40 AM by LiberalVoice
Alot of them were college students enjoying our fine educational establishments. Whether you buy it or not the months and even years after 9/11 were not good times to be middle eastern. I am half egyptian(American born and raised) and I have been told on several occasions to "Go back to your fucking country you terrorist".(The irony of course is the fact that my father is El-Sayed Nosair, one of two terrorists found guilty of masterminding the 93 bombings of the WTC. I exclaim that freely on DU because for years I had to watch entire communities shun my family and I even though we had no idea what he was up to.)

I have gotten into many confrontations when out with my mother because she is a muslim woman and wheres a scarf.
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Dr Fate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-07-04 10:31 AM
Response to Reply #30
32. Priority #1: Investigating the BIN LADEN family.
We could have offered them the finest protection available AND fully investigated them. Why does it have to be one or the other?

This is a scandal and I am glad Moore exposed it.
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Mz Pip Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-06-04 06:33 PM
Response to Reply #10
23. Yes, they
sure were in a hurry to get out of Dodge. To me it's not a matter of whether or not they all left the country a day before or a day after the travel ban. It's all about them leaving. Why were thet allowed to go, even if it was after the ban was lifted? If they were interrogated it must have been a very short interrogation.

MzPip
:dem:

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Obamarama Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-06-04 05:56 PM
Response to Original message
17. Flight was confirmed by Tampa International Airport
Edited on Mon Sep-06-04 05:59 PM by KzooDem
This article appeared in June in the St. Petersburg Times. Doesn't appear to be connected to bin Laden family, but it does appear the Saudi royal family was given special treatment. Hmmmmm, big suprise there.

TAMPA - Two days after the Sept. 11 attacks, with most of the nation's air traffic still grounded, a small jet landed at Tampa International Airport, picked up three young Saudi men and left.

The men, one of them thought to be a member of the Saudi royal family, were accompanied by a former FBI agent and a former Tampa police officer on the flight to Lexington, Ky.

The Saudis then took another flight out of the country. The two ex-officers returned to TIA a few hours later on the same plane.

For nearly three years, White House, aviation and law enforcement officials have insisted the flight never took place and have denied published reports and widespread Internet speculation about its purpose.

LINK: http://www.saintpetersburgtimes.com/2004/06/09/Tampabay/TIA_now_verifies_flig.shtml
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ConsAreLiars Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-06-04 06:33 PM
Response to Original message
22. F911 never said that. Whoever told you the film made that claim was lying
From http://www.michaelmoore.com/warroom/f911notes/index.php?id=17
------------------------------------------------------------------

FAHRENHEIT 9/11: “The White House approved planes to pick up the bin Ladens and numerous other Saudis.”

* Fearing reprisals against Saudi nationals, the Saudi government asked for help in getting some of its citizens out of the country. National Commission on Terrorist Attacks Upon the United States, Threats and Responses in 2001, Staff Statement No. 10, The Saudi Flights, p. 12; http://www.9-11commission.gov/hearings/
hearing10/staff_statement_10.pdf

* “Now, what I recall is that I asked for flight manifests of everyone on board and all of those names need to be directly and individually vetted by the FBI before they were allowed to leave the country. And I also wanted the FBI to sign off even on the concept of Saudis being allowed to leave the country. And as I recall, all of that was done. It is true that members of the Bin Laden family were among those who left. We knew that at the time. I can't say much more in open session, but it was a conscious decision with complete review at the highest levels of the State Department and the FBI and the White House.” Testimony of Richard Clarke, Former Counterterrorism Chief, National Security Council, before The Senate Judiciary Committee, September 3, 2003.

* “I was making or coordinating a lot of decisions on 9/11 and the days immediately after. And I would love to be able to tell you who did it, who brought this proposal to me, but I don't know. Since you pressed me, the two possibilities that are most likely are either the Department of State, or the White House Chief of Staff's Office. But I don't know.” Testimony of Richard A. Clarke before the National Commission on Terrorist Attacks Upon the United States, March 24, 2004.

FAHRENHEIT 9/11: “At least six private jets and nearly two dozen commercial planes carried the Saudis and the bin Ladens out of the U.S. after September 13th. In all, 142 Saudis, including 24 members of the bin Laden family, were allowed to leave the country.”

NOTE: It should be noted that even though the film does not make the allegation, strong evidence has recently come to light that at least one private plane flew to pick up Saudi nationals while private flights were still grounded. Moreover, for nearly three years, the White House has denied that this flight existed. This was reported in the June 9, 2004 St. Petersburg Times article cited below.

* After the airspace reopened, six chartered flights with 142 people,mostly Saudi Arabian nationals, departed from the United States between September 14 and 24. One flight, the so-called Bin Ladin flight, departed the United States on September 20 with 26 passengers, most of them relatives of Usama Bin Ladin. National Commission on Terrorist Attacks Upon the United States, Threats and Responses in 2001, Staff Statement No. 10, The Saudi Flights, p. 12; http://www.9-11commission.gov/hearings/
hearing10/staff_statement_10.pdf

* It should be noted that the US Customs and Border Protection document released by the Department of Homeland Security under the FOIA, Feb 24, 2004 lists 162 Saudi Nationals who flew out of the country between 9/11/2001 and 9/15/2001, departing from New York’s Kennedy airport, Washington’s Dulles, and Dallas Fort Worth. http://www.judicialwatch.org/archive/
2004/homelandsecurity.pdf.

* For an official list of Saudi Passport holders (names redacted) who flew out of the country between 9.11.2001 – 9.15.2001, see US Customs and Border Protection document released by the Department of Homeland Security under the FOIA, Feb 24, 2004; http://www.judicialwatch.org/archive/
2004/homelandsecurity.pdf.

* TheSt. Petersburg Times reported on Jun 9, 2004:

o "Two days after the Sept. 11 attacks, with most of the nation's air traffic still grounded, a small jet landed at Tampa International Airport, picked up three young Saudi men and left. The men, one of them thought to be a member of the Saudi royal family, were accompanied by a former FBI agent and a former Tampa police officer on the flight to Lexington, Ky. The Saudis then took another flight out of the country.”

o Moreover: “For nearly three years, White House, aviation and law enforcement officials have insisted the flight never took place and have denied published reports and widespread Internet speculation about its purpose… The terrorism panel, better known as the 9/11 Commission, said in April that it knew of six chartered flights with 142 people aboard, mostly Saudis, that left the United States between Sept. 14 and 24, 2001. But it has said nothing about the Tampa flight… The 9/11 Commission, which has said the flights out of the United States were handled appropriately by the FBI, appears concerned with the handling of the Tampa flight.

o "Most of the aircraft allowed to fly in U.S. airspace on Sept. 13 were empty airliners being ferried from the airports where they made quick landings on Sept. 11. The reopening of the airspace included paid charter flights, but not private, nonrevenue flights.” Jean Heller, “TIA now verifies flight of Saudis; The government has long denied that two days after the 9/11 attacks, the three were allowed to fly.” St. Petersburg Times, June 9, 2004

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Dem2theMax Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-07-04 05:41 AM
Response to Reply #22
31. Got here real late. As I read the replies, I wondered how long it would
take before someone remembered that MM has all of this posted on his web site. I can't remember the number of times I've posted this stuff on other boards. Thank God for MM. And so glad to see that someone DID remember. :)
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Cleita Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-06-04 07:04 PM
Response to Original message
25. I distinctly remember it being reported during the aftermath
of 9-11. I don't remember which station though. But there was announcement that members of bin Laden's family were flown to Saudi Arabia the next day for their safety or some such excuse. It was never mentioned very much though and the story disappeared very quickly. A google search might turn up some cached news reports if they haven't been scrubbed.
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genius Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-06-04 09:38 PM
Response to Original message
29. Yes. It's been confirmed by several reliable sources.
Also, by some not so reliable ones, such as the NYT.
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