I hope Kobe Bryant gets a serious injury and can never play again

[Rooktoven]

Go ahead, flame away.

By the way, I hoped the same thing about Lawrence Phillips...

[walldude]

1. If he was guilty...

But something smelled bad about this one from the start..

[Catt03]

2. I agree with you

I was willing to wait for a trial to decide guilt or innocence but they attacked the accuser so aggressively that I just ended up believing he is guilty

[MissMarple]

50. Actually, the prosecution didn't do ANY homework.

They screwed this up from the beginning. And, sadly, their incompetence has nothing to do with the what the truth may be. But a troubling fact is her having sex after purportedly being raped. And, the bottom line is they didn't have a case to take to court.

[MissMarple]

63. And do I think he is guilty? Probably not.

[devinsgram]

87. Disagree

His apology to the victim and family for what he put her through that night, says to me he is guilty. You had to read between the lines.

[PaDem]

3. Thats way out of line..........

how do you know Bryant was guilty of rape? If you followed the case you'd know that it was full of holes. Comparing him to Lawrence Phillips is ridiculous. Phillips is a young man with a ton of problems. You really oughta look into his life. The guy is guilty of violent crimes against women. He's also been swimming up hill his whole life. His football career is over as far as I know.

[arcos]

10. I thought he was innocent, but have you read his statement??

...

"Although I truly believe this encounter between us was consensual, I recognize now that she did not and does not view this incident the same way that I did.

"After months of reviewing discovery, listening to her attorney, and even hearing her testify in person, I now understand how she sincerely feels that she did not consent to the encounter.

...



http://www.cnn.com/2004/LAW/09/01/bryant.statement/index.html

[Uzybone]

14. Ho hum

sounds like money is about to change hands. This "apology" probably saved him a few hundred thousand.

If he was really guilty why would he make a statement like that?

[Rooktoven]

19. To avoid saying

"Yeah, I raped her."

[PaDem]

15. I think he went out of his way to be gracious

there. He (or his people) didn't need to release that statement. I think it says a lot that he did. Do I think there could have been some miscommunication about what the two were doing? Sure. Do I think Kobe Bryant forced himself upon this woman? No.

[LSK]

54. maybe shes making him say that

as part of the hush hush deal to drop the charges.

[Tomee450]

62. That is the case.

I just heard on ESPN that Kobe's lawyer said the accuser demanded that statement and that Kobe maintains his innocence.

[Uzybone]

4. Good for you

hopefully you wont be ACCUSED of anything and have people hope ill will against you just becasue you have been ACCUSED.

[Lindacooks]

8. Sorry, her blood on his clothes is pretty damn much proof to me

[Rooktoven]

11. Blood on the clothes and total re-victimization

Their behavior (the leaks to the press) was reprehensible. I stand by my statement.

[madmax]

16. There is also evidence that she had sex with another man

almost immediately after she claims Bryant raped her. This all came out this a.m. Jeffrey Toobin was reporting why the State dropped the case. They filed the charges 2 WEEKS after she accused Bryant and they didn't know all the facts so their case fell apart and they look like jerks.

Please do some research on this case if you are angry about what happened.

[Rooktoven]

13. I can guarantee you I _won't_ be accused of rape. --nt

[Uzybone]

17. Anyone can accuse you of anything at anytime nt.

[Southsideirish]

5. I thought it was not legal to look into the victim's sexual history.

Is it just in Colorado that its OK?

[Uzybone]

6. History is one thing

sex a few hours later is another.

[walldude]

31. No it's not in Colorado..

However, when the woman went to the hospital to claim rape, she had a different mans semen in her panties. That put her under suspicion, because not too many women who get raped go out and have sex with someone else the next day. It was decided that her past sexual history was off limits but her activity around the days of the alledged rape was going to be allowed in court. This is probably why the case was dropped. And I never heard that they found any of her blood on Kobe. That may change my opinion...

[Lindacooks]

7. I do too

[Gman]

9. The woman saw Kobe walk into the hotel and saw $$$$$$$$$$

sorry... there's way to many inconsistencies in her story for me to think it was a bonide case of rape.

[arcos]

12. have you read his statement?

(see post #10)

[roguevalley]

18. Personally? I'm sick of married men fucking around. A pox on his sorry

ass.

By the way, there is a great book out on the NBA. Can't remember it but heard the writer on telly the other day. More than 40&% of the NBA have criminal records.

[bagnana]

40. yes. I read it. So what?

He was a black man being tried for rape of a white girl in a white town. I wouldn't be surprised at all if the statement was a quid pro quo for her refusal to testify. That is more apparent given the line that she has agreed the statement will be inadmissible in a civil action. Therefore, they discussed it. She is trying to save face and he is trying to avoid being tried for rape, which is a smart move even if he was completely innocent. I don't know if he was innocent or guilty. However, I do think there are a number of strange evidentiary problems with her case, namely (1) the prosecution's (former) expert witness who informed the prosecution that her physical condition was consistent with consensual sex; and (2) the fact that she had sex with another person immediately or shortly after the claimed rape.

[Name removed]

20. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Rooktoven]

21. Go ahead-- Notice I wasn't praying...

but don't drool on your Laker jersey while you're kneeling.

[B. P. R. D.]

22. Prayer Works Much Better Than Hoping.

Or wishing for that matter.

[Rooktoven]

23. Depends on what you pray for...

I could pray you were less of a Kobe fan, but that would be a waste of God's time.

[B. P. R. D.]

28. Too Bad We Can't Prosecute The Lying Accuser.

It would set a good example for all gold diggers thinking of crying wolf.

[Rooktoven]

32. Yes and it gives carte blanche to a wealthy person to rape

Good plan, that.

[Djinn]

34. why's that?

[Nordic]

24. Gee, how American of you.

I thought in America you were innocent until proven guilty.

[Rooktoven]

27. Kobe and his defense team are the equivalent of Bushco

Smear the adversary unmercifully. Even disregarging his (most probable) guilt, he and the defense did irreprable harm to rape shield laws.

[Nordic]

35. so you're assuming he's guilty

without a jury trial to prove it.

[Blue_Tires]

25. i won't go so far as to wish that

but i will say i'll never turn on the tv to watch him play again...his defense must have cost a pretty penny...tarnish the accuser's reputation, leak info to the media (probably one or two low-level court clerks now driving new corvettes), reveal her identity (thanks tom leykis), and generally make her life a living hell...

i don't pretend to know what really happened that night, but actions from both sides of this ordeal have made me sick...

[Alenne]

26. If the accuser wanted to see him go to jail

she should not have refused to testify. She is the reason the case was dismissed. Why are you blaming Kobe for her not testifying? She can testify in the civil case but not the criminal case. I guess money can make you forget about being "victimized' by the court.

[Rooktoven]

29. If the accuser wanted him to go to jail she had to be willing

to be humiliated again, and put up with more threats against her since every single bit of her privacy had been violated. Small fucking wonder she dropped the criminal suit.

[Alenne]

36. Why didn't she drop the civil suit?

Same thing can happen there. The threats and her name and picture being released happened last year but she was still ready to go on with the trial. If she was really concerned about her privacy she could have dropped out of the case last year. Talk about her not testifying didn't start until after the evidence about semen and pubic hair found on her and inside her that didn't match Kobe was allowed into court. Information that will be in the civil trial.

I would be humiliated if everyone found out that after I said I was raped I had sex with at least one person and was close enough with some other guy that his pubic hair is left on my body. All within a 12 hour time period. But that is her problem not Kobe's. I don't think rape victim's should have to be virgins but at least refrain from having intercourse between the rape and your rape examination especially if the time between your rape and rape examination is only 12 hours.

[TankLV]

67. And you just KNOW this how? How do you get off KNOWING who is telling the

truth and who is not?

YOU DON'T KNOW!

And what if she is a golddigger and he was innocent - and you don't know either way - so a potentially innocent man is slandered, and his reputation is trashed, but it's OK to keep the accuser's identity secret?

I don't think so.

What's good for the goose is good for the gander.

A person is innocent until proven guilty. Or don't you believe in that?

And don't give me what your prejudices are - you were NOT there as a witness and you were NOT on the jury.

Either BOTH names are kept secret or BOTH names are revealed.

Equality under the law.

And I don't know which one is telling the truth either.

[IrishBloodEngHeart]

30. you sound like Nancy Grace

everyone you decide by your psychic powers should be in jail.

That's the whole idea behind the patriot act. That's how repubs think.

[Rooktoven]

33. Hardly

My psychic powers are limited to watching how he and the defense conducted themselves. Kobe has qualified his behavior after each tidbit of truth he was publicly confronted with.

[candy331]

37. Turned out just as I said and thought it would, the money will

change hands now and maybe later in a movie/book. Married men and women too will continue to have sex outside of marriage and some women will cry rape justifiably and some not and life goes on, now tell me it doesn't. Next case in waiting!

[Skittles]

38. on thing Kobe certainly IS guilty of

being one smarmy, disgusting SOB

[Tomee450]

59. and how do you arrive at that conclusion?

Before this incident Kobe had a good reputation. He was never in trouble. Everyone was surprised that he would be accused of rape. He is an adulterer who has been accused of rape. He has been convicted of nothing. So now simply because of this one incident he is now a smarmy SOB? I guess some people are expected to be perfect while the faults of others are ignored.

[Skittles]

73. HE F***S AROUND ON HIS WIFE

SLIMY SOB

[uncle ray]

82. and how do you know she's not OK with it?

some people actually tolerate their spouses having sex with other people. it may be hard for "good" people to accept, but it's true. hell, some ENCOURAGE it! having sex outside marriage isn't always cheating. has Kobe's wife filed for divorce yet?

[Skittles]

84. if she is ok with it

she is slimy too

[Kanary]

39. The prosecution dropped charges because the accuser could not continue

I can't, for the life of me, understand why people of "compassion" seem to expect that a victim should have absolutely NO limit to what they can handle. I can't understand why so many people of "compassion" aren't able to put themselves in her shoes, and understand just what she is going through, and what could happen to her if she pushes beyond what hse is capable of dealing with.

THIS IS WHY I GO BALLISTIC WHEN PEOPLE CLAIM "GOD NEVER GIVES YOU MORE THAN YOU CAN HANLE", AND ALL THOSE OTHER (NON-GOSPEL) BLATHERINGS.

I also can't understand why some people say things like "A victim should always press charges". Who is thee for them? Where do they get the support to go on? Look at the charges right here on a forum of "compassionate" Dems, claiming that she was only after money, etc. I wonder just how many people right here could go through all that, in the glare of national publicity.

Compassion. Don't leave home without it.

Kanary

[opiate69]

41. Kanary.. 1 simple question.

Do you, or do you not, believe that in this society there are some women who would falsely accuse a wealthy man of such a charge for financial gain?

[Kanary]

42. Do you or do you not believe there are MANY rich and famous

men who take advantage of women?????

I'm SICK of this constant crap against women on this forum!

Kanary

[B. P. R. D.]

43. Stop Spewing Crap If You Do Not Want To Be Called On It.

Does putting an innocent man in jail satisfy some sick revenge fantasy? Are we victimizing you with our words? Got some kind of inferiority complex?

[Kanary]

53. another poster calling her a "lying bitch" is OK

but you only want to "call *me* on it".......

Says it all, doesn't it?

Kanary

[opiate69]

57. Considering..

Considering the fact that the prosecutor, who in his initial press conference announcing the charges, all but guaranteed a conviction is dropping the charges, she does, in fact, appear to be lying. If it looks like a duck, walks like a duck and quacks like a duck......

[maveric]

44. Constant crap?

Just because someone raises a question, like in the previous post, its misogynous and anti-woman? He was just asking a question.

BTW my uncle, who is well off, was accused of rape. The accuser, during the trial, recanted the story, stating that she only was angry at him for breaking off the relationship with her. She asked for no money. No civil suit.

These things do happen and quite often wealthy but vulnerable men are falsely accused.

Quite frankly I'm offended by those who say that a man is automatically guilty of rape if accused.

C'mon now.

[opiate69]

45. "Constant crap against women"???

We're not talking about "all" women here.. just one..Kate Faber. And since you refused to answer my question, I will have to assume that you in fact do not believe there are women who are capable of such underhanded attempts to score the proverbial "pile o' cash", and therefore are wholly incapable of debating this issue in any reasoned, productive way.

[Tomee450]

46. Yes

there are men who rape women but it just does not follow that simply because a man is accused he is guilty. American Justice had a case where a woman identified a black man as her attacker and she was wrong. DNA test later determined that it was another man who raped her and he confessed to the crime in jail. It is really quite sad that people are willing to believe a man is guilty simply because a woman says he did it. Kobe's word is just as good as the accuser's yet people want to dismiss his claim of innocence and accept her accusation. I still believe a person is innocent until proven guilty in a court of law. Several young men were accused of raping the Central Park jogger. They went to jail but were later found to not be guilty. Another man has confessed to the crime. Unfortunately, some people are too willing to believe that a black man is always waiting to rape a white woman. In the south, entire black communities have been burnt to the ground simply because a white woman accused a black man of rape. For some people I guess a black man accused of rape has to be guilty.

[Kanary]

52. ah, yes, but it's just fine for men here to claim she was after his money

I notice there aren't any of you confronting THAT.

See, it's OK to assume the woman is guilty. Just not the poor man.

Crap, indeedy.

Kanary

[opiate69]

55. You still don't get it...

It is OK to assume that the woman may be guilty. An assumption you do not seem capable of making. There is a huge difference... And considering the evidence which has made it into the public forum, said assumption seems more likely with every new development.

[Kanary]

56. The HELL I don't get it......... I am old enough to recognize sexism

when I see it.

And it ABOUNDS here.

As for your evidence...... the RW claims all kinds of evidence, and you seem to be able to see through that. Yet, you can't make the same connection here.....

Interesting.

Kanary

[B. P. R. D.]

58. The Only Thing I See Is Racism.

And it ABOUNDS here.

[Kanary]

66. RICH men getting away with anything they want...... regardless of color

But, go ahead, accuse idiotic crap.

Kanary

[Tomee450]

68. Sadly

there does appear to an element of racism in the harsh words directed at Kobe. She accused him, he has to be guilty. Forget that there is evidence that suggest he may not be guilty. This attitude is seen so often when the alleged perpetrator is black.

[opiate69]

61. I, too, am old enough to recognize sexism when I see it..

and since you refuse to entertain the idea that he is actually innocent, I say it is you who is being sexist. Anybody who autonatically assumes a man is guilty of rape, soley because a woman accuses him of it, can be considered nothing else but sexist.

[Kanary]

69. If there was truly a sincere concern for "innocence" here,

there would be the same hue and cry about the accusations made about the victim.

So, where is THAT outrage?

Nope, it's only "deserved" by the rich man.

You can say anything you want......... all kinds of accusations are allowed here.

Just as the RW gets away with all kinds of accusations.

Doesn't make 'em true.

Kanary

[pnb]

70. Why should there be hue and cry about accusations against her?

There were accusations against him. He can't make accusations back?

Talk all you want about sexism...I recognize it too and I recognize that you're guilty of it.

[Kanary]

74. Why, indeed????

Just hit on women, over and over, and never expect them to hit back.

Hmmmmm, sounds like the last several years of RW rule.

:crazy:

Kanary

[pnb]

75. Lets make sure I understand you...

IF Kobe is actually innocent of this crime, then her accusations are OK because of the injustice women have had to put up with?

OR are you merely saying you disregard conflicting evidence in Kobe's favor and just know that he is indeed guilty?

And the RW comment is just a ridiculous statement that has absolutely nothing to do with this.

[Kanary]

77. *YOU* don't know he's innocent.......

Yet, you also don't know the victim is "guilty", yet it's OK with you to smear her rep, but not his.

We know, at the very least, that he admitted to adultry, and now says he understands she didn't feel like she consented. That's the least we know........ there could be much more.

Yet, you want him to be considered completely innocent, and aren't in the least bothered that she has been accused here of all manner of misbehavior...... that's just fine and dandy with you.

You have absolutely NO compassion with her situation, and what she has been going through. NONE.

*THAT'S* what women are absolutely fed up with.

And the same kind of RW garbage that you all decry.

Kanary

[pnb]

80. Hellllloooo

I don't know that he is innocent...I also don't know he is guilty.

Neither do you. In other words, if my statements are reprehensible because I don't know the truth, you are at least as guilty as I am.

And you keep telling me what I want...so I can say from your statements that you want him to be completely guilty and aren't in the least bit bothered that he has been accused here of all manner of misbehavior AND was wished hard on top of it.

You have absolutely NO compassion with his situation and what he's gone through...NONE.

Going back to the top statement I made though, I think its more than likely that he is indeed innocent. And if so, this woman brought everything on herself and I have no sympathy whatsoever.

[Kanary]

81. No, I have no compassion for him....... he caused a lot of misery

both for his wife and family, and for the woman in Colorado. HE is supposedly an adult, and knows right from wrong, yet he went ahead and thought with his penis instead of caring about his wife, not to mention a woman who just happened to be there.

You're absolutely right about that....... I don't care about him, since he has already shown he doesn't care about women.

As I said, at the least, we know that he took advantage of the situation, which also hurt his wife and family. We also know, or at least any Dem *should* know, that the rich can buy their way out of just about anything, so it's very possible, and could be likely, that he did what he is accused of.

But, none of that matters to you. I guess you automatically sympathize with a man's "needs", and think it's right for the rich to be able to buy themselves off any transgression.

Then, you crow and pat yourself on the back because you can blame a woman you know NOTHING about for "bringing it on herself (geeez, like blaming the victim is such a new thing........ just like RWers blame gays for getting aids, and say they brought it on themselves....... yup, that's really attractive) and are proud of yourself for having no sympathy for what the woman has gone through.

You've made yourself QUITE clear.

:puke:

Kanary

[pnb]

86. Lordy...

Hows about you actually attempt a reasonable response that actually addresses what is said instead of just spouting off whatever propoganda pops into your head?

"But, none of that matters to you. I guess you automatically sympathize with a man's "needs", and think it's right for the rich to be able to buy themselves off any transgression."

What the hell kind of ridiculous crap is this? I guess you missed the several times I mentioned that based on what is publicly know, I believe he is innocent of rape. THAT is what matters and you'd realize this if you actually took a mind to use a bit of logic. The rest is just your way of being angry at whatever it is your angry at and then having the nerve to call OTHERS sexist.

You talk about me blaming the victim...as far as I am concerned, that's what you are doing because again, seeing as I think Kobe is innocent of rape, HE IS THE VICTIM OF FALSE ALLEGATIONS, not the woman.

See, unlike you, I'd at least change my tune if it turned out Kobe was guilty after all. 100% proof could come out that Kobe was innocent and you'd STILL say he somehow victimized her...that he should he just kept quiet about being accused of rape and just taken it. That is just plain idiotic.

[southlandshari]

76. Anti-women?

Supporting the idea that people are innocent until proven guilty in our society = a bias against women in this forum? Huh?

I don't mean to be antagonistic here, but as a woman, I have to say that I take issue with the idea that those who believe that Kobe Bryant, like any other defendant in this country, should be given the presumption of innocence is equivalent to taking a stand against womens' issues. Regardless of what your gut tells you about what happened that night in Colorado.

I worked in collegiate athletics at the university and conference level for several years, and you wouldn't believe the bad behavior I saw - from both the players AND the women who often became involved with them. I would never assume ANYTHING about a case like this given a he-said, she-said scenario like this one.

I'm not making a statement on Bryant's guilt or innocence, or the accuser's decision to call it quits here. I just think it is a stretch to assign anti-women intentions to those of us who were willing to await a legal verdict in this case before making up our own minds about where the truth of the story really is.

[Vladimir]

85. This is hardly the point

The sexism comes into it because the first assumption many people make in this kind of case is that 'she did it for the money'. Its an assumption that the sexist society we live in teaches us to make. To entertain the possibility is intelligent, rational and necessary - as the police I have no doubt do - but to start with that presumption is sexist.

The problem with rape is that it IS different. For centuries women who were raped didn't come forward - because it was shameful for them, because they would be seen as having asked for it, because people wouldn't believe them. Even today, the same problem is present. The problem then is: how does the law protect the assumption of innocence for the accused, while at the same time making these women feel comfortable about stepping forward and making the allegation (one should remember that the vast majority of these accusations made are found to be truthful)? It is not an easy question, and I do not profess any simple answers, but we must recognise that the problem exists, and that its historical dimension (allied to the fact that rape is a century old method of keeping women subjugated within society) does make it different from, say, robbery or a mugging. Perhaps granting court-imposed anonymity to both parties from the start would be a step in the right direction (in such a public case, this would of course be difficult to maintain).

[Alenne]

47. That's all well and good in some other case

but in this case the accuser refused to testify in the criminal case but is not having the same problem testifying in the civil trial that has not been dropped. In the civil trial all the same information and more will be admissable. If she can't handle the scrutiny of a criminal trial then how will she handle it in a civil trial? If it isn't about the money than what is it about?

[LisaL]

72. Hah?

I don't think she will ever testify in the civil trial.
After Mr. Bryant's apology to her, I presume he will just pay her and that will be the end of it.

[Alenne]

78. Exactly

She will take her money and go. Making this case all about the money.

[Tomee450]

48. That is

an awful thing to say. I don't think it is a good idea to wish harm to other people. I have always been taught that the harm you wish for others is likely to come to you.

[Name removed]

49. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[opiate69]

51. Dont' worry, Rooktoven.. thanks to her lies...

He has lost countless millions of dollars in endorsements, which thanks to his newly tarnished reputation he'll never be able to do again. Goodbye, Sprite.. adios, McDonalds.. all for apparently nothing.

[Joe Momma]

60. what is a negro...

doing in a white county messing with white women anyway. talk about uppity.

he must have done it.

screw atticus finch.

[JSJ]

64. drug war's slam dunks dull prosecutorial skills...

...and ensure wins for superior litigators on the defense. It's difficult for prosecutors raised on easy drug convictions of poor people to mount real prosecutions when real crimes come their way.

[pnb]

71. Or there was too much conflicting evidence

n/t

[FDRrocks]

65. Beyond a REASONABLE doubt, thats what they need

and they didn't have anything to bring to the table. I don't like that this girls sex life was the center of the trial. I don't like the idea, I don't like the precedent. But in this case it seems very, very relavant.

And given Kobes public status, I would countersue if I was him.

[Djinn]

79. I don't know or care who was lying in this case

and I do not agree with the original post here - what I do know is that posts that insinuate or outright state that if a women goes into a man's room she is to blame if he rapes her and that if a women is raped she has to wait some unspecified time before having sex again and if she doesn't she's lying, that she MUST press charges and testify regardless of the consequences of doing so for her and the constant use of words like slut (meaningless) and whore ARE sexist.

From the outside (and let's face it we've only heard what's been leaked by each camp) if I were on a jury deciding this case I would have acquited because I couldn't have found that he did it beyond reasonable doubt but that doesn't mean that some of the assumptions about rape in general on this forum aren't revolting. I don't agree with most of the "DU mysogyny" claims but when the old chestnut of "she went into his room" get brought up it makes me want to hurl.

[UdoKier]

83. Why?

You weren't there. You don't know if he was guilty or innocent. Besides, why follow such irrelevant tabloid stories?

I was glad he was acquitted, because I'm sick of new time being wasted on such an irrelevant NON-story.

Or maybe you're one of those people who think once a man is accused, he is automatically guilty?

[MadHound]

88. Nice way to uphold innocent until PROVEN guilty

And I sincerely hope that you never have to be in the same situation that Kobe was in. Automatically presumed guilty because he is a well paid black athlete in a known racist community, accused of rape. Face it, his guilt was assumed from the beginning, without a shred of evidence. I also find it highly unusual that in what was supposedly going to be a slam dunk case, as soon as some seriously compromising evidence is allowed in(ie you sexual encounter with a third person within hours after the alleged rape), the prosecution decides to drop the case. Something about this whole scenario stinks to me.

Did Kobe commit adultery? Yes, but that is really a matter between him and his family, for anyone else to judge is wrong, for it isn't our place to judge peoples' private lives. Did Kobe commit rape? We don't know, and probably never will. This is America, and until a person, whether they are rich, poor, black, white, celebrity or ordinary Joe Schmoe, all are presumed innocent until proven guilty in a court of law. Since that has not, and will not happen, then I am going to have to presume innocence. Presuming anything else is unamerican and shows a distinct lack of respect for our laws and system of justice.