Did you see “History of the Bush Family” MSNBC?

[wadestock]

I like most of you am almost in a state of shock now. The attacks against Kerry have gone deep into the septic system as we expected they would. It all brings back the horrible memories of how they did everything in their power to bring down Clinton. I don't know about you, but the more I’ve learned about Kerry in all of this, the more I say to myself, geeze....he really is the real thing. Having lived through the Vietnam thing, been lucky to get a number and not go, seen a dozen friends go, some physically disabled for life and most mental tortured by the experience, I see the perspective of Kerry volunteering, getting into the Swift Boat duty, realizing quite quickly that the war was a travesty, then “doing his thing” quite effectively and efficiently and getting the hell out of there....then being clear and focused in thought and objective to champion for the end of the war at home as nothing short of incredible. This story forms a perfect blueprint for exactly how he can take us out of the mess we’re in now.

Now regarding that mess. The show on MSNBC last nite brought a whole new perspective to me on just how bad it is and how much it has to do with the Bush family. I’m of the personal opinion that a perverse “Neocon mindset” has grown through perhaps a reckless morphing of Reaganism and capitalistic imperialism with key Neocons and rightwingers who coincidentally became great bedfellows with a bunch of bad businessmen. All this combination of the worse of the worse then became entrenched as a political motive through about 10 or 15 years of Limbaughism, the emergence of perverse “religious/political convictions” and the overall fear and insecurity of a “dumbed down” public which had generally lost its way. Call it what you want, these people now represent the worse of the worse in terms of human qualities and aspirations. They generally congregate together based on two essential guiding principles....arrogance and ignorance. But the point is...they have found a wonderful vehicle through the Bush family. W now exemplifies these key attributes of arrogance and ignorance. He is leading "their way".

Bush 1 gave the US its first Neoconservative victory in Desert Storm. This is a war which had no credibility whatsoever except to possibly undue previous US failings in the area. Let us not forget how Bush 1 championed this war and brought us to this very formidable Neoconservative foreign policy which we have found ourselves sinking in today like quicksand. But as all this was going on, you may have been keen to see W lurking in the background at key moments looking over his dad’s shoulder with a sinister snare on his face. At this time, he looked disheveled and immature in his overall demeanor, possibly battling alcoholism at the time, and evidently refining his cocky/arrogant ruthless political style. To me it almost looked at times as if he was sitting on the sidelines of a championship wrestling match, ready to jump up and throw a hotdog at anyone that might get in his father’s way. At times his glare and snare also looked curiously perverted, almost as if he were watching a porn movie.

To think that this fool and those that lurk on the sidelines could take this country back another 100 years in evolution in just 4 more years, and possibly derail capitalism itself in the process is simply beyond belief.

I think back on a statement that Dr. Viktor Frankl once made when writing about Logotherapy which struck me. He said something to the effect that the US should not be content with the Statute of Liberty unless it had a companion “Statute of Responsibility”.

W often muses about how he will "rewrite the history books". Perhaps the history books will write, "Freedom....without responsibility....is the most gracious legacy that befits the Bush family and all the decadent scum that they managed to troll along with them"

[wuushew]

1. Was this more than one show?

They ran something called "In his father's shoes" last night on MSNBC.

Can someone please explain why Raygun chose G.H.W.B as running mate in 1980 when Ford was widely expected to be VP?

[wadestock]

2. Sorry I did't get the name right.....

I was too caught up in the whole thing....wish I had taped it.

Great question, and I would propose the "Neocon theory" that such Reaganism/Neoconservative brewings were in the works already.

There have been many to point out recently that Dole and many of the much more pure conservative Republicans would never have led us anywhere close to where we are today.

Neoconservativism and Reaganism made strange bedfellows and there's no reason to believe that Reagan and Bush himself didn't have collaborations which fitted into this new scheme of things. There are very sick cancerous forces that are at work here that simply need the right props and vehicles to find that much more living mass to occupy.

[Tsiyu]

3. I was not able to see this

What kind of job did they do - depicting the Busholinis?

What major points were made?

What was your overall sense of the impact?

How many people will see this?

I am fascinated with the image thing and hope for anything and everything that will help Kerry win.

Sorry to be picking your brains....

[wadestock]

4. It was attempting to be positive in most respects....

Depicting Bush 1 as a solid father and family figure. W as a grateful son.

It should get a large audience, but most people in the Bush camp will see it for its merit in showing the Bush's as decent people of good character. The story made a point in showcasing Bush 1's rise to power and his bid for president as "well...I don't have anything revolutionary to bring to the table...just me and my good character".
So they basically "left him alone"....as most people are doing today....and as I've cautioned because when you really look at this family you have to see Herbert Walker as possessing some of the most insidious qualities that have contributed to where we are today.

This was not intended as any analysis of either record. There was no historical perspective of pluses or minuses in terms of actions taken, war, or otherwise. It was more about the "family".

Highlights like W taking the podium when he accepted the nomination and speaking to his dad saying, "I'm proud of my dad, he's a great father"...things like that....

It did touch on something very relevant but then glossed over the issue....this being to what extent W would have collaborated with dad in the "unfinished business" of Iraq.

The treatise on this left me with the impression consistent with what I've read...that there was and is no real collaboration. Each one interviewed on this issue gave sparse, uninformative answers. W would say, "well I talk to dad about once every 2 weeks...and it's more about family". Of course W did improvise and show his arrogance/ignorance by saying "my dad knows I am much better informed than him because I'm the president".

But what would you expect from senior? This is a guy who couldn't ever complete a thought or a sentence. He didn't say anything of substance that would even lead a careful observer to think that W was actually fathered by him let alone that they had any real relationship. My personal impression on the family thing left me thinking this is a dysfunctional family, using "family" in a Stepford like setting to sell all sorts of good image when they really are probably some of the most perverse businessmen that the US has ever seen in politics.

The story did however provide a clear perspective in my opinion of how W rose out of these "ashes" with somewhat of a vengeance to seek presidency. There was no way they could hide this overall effect. There have been some writings on how Rove made the man, but while this may be true in the mechanics, etc, ....you can see in this hour or so plenty of examples of how W seemed to view this as a game that had to be won. During his dad's presidency they were keen to note how he worked vigorously and often "ruthlessly" to make sure that the right people and the right things were being pursued.

In short, I had no problem seeing him as a drunk, an arrogant cocky incompetent fool....who got awe inspired through dad and was eventually viewed by those surrounding him as a perfect vehicle to champion their cause.

[Tsiyu]

12. Thankie, Mr. Wade Stock

So it was more cheerleading for our fearless leader.
I appreciate your analysis as I miss most programs like this.:evilfrown:

[sam sarrha]

5. just when the information about validating the Lies came out the swift

boat lier's started saying it was just a difference in interpretation of the event.. then the leader of the SBVFT was reveled to have also received a bronze star under fire during the same event.. which made him a SHAMELESS LIER.. they then changed the reason for their anger to be that Kerry's testimony about soldiers shooting civilians and such ...

I had a life long buddy that was a Commander of 9 swift boats.. he said that they shot up whole families in sampans if they made any move that might be suspicious and one time what they thought was a gun and resulted in the death of a dozen men women and mostly children ended up being a broom stick.. another friend told me of his commanding officer ordering him to indiscriminately fire machine guns on sampans whenever he saw them.. he refused and the officer pulled a gun on him and said he would kill him if he didn't.. he said he fired on the sampans.. he was going to kill the officer but someone beat him to it.. another friend said they left long chains on the back ends of the trucks that would whip around and kill civilians on the sides of the roads... these people were not the sort to make up stories... maybe if you didn't get out into the boonies you didn't see these things.. i also know those that didn't see war crimes.. they worked on planes.

most of the people i knew came back really messed up.. my friend the swift boat commander never told me anything about it till he saw the Apocalypse Now movie .. that really set him off for a couple of weeks.. he said that that was what it was often like.

[wadestock]

7. Chris Matthews got it right....

Sometime last week....after he had been miffed by them taking a select piece from his show on Hardball to make the net video "Kerry flipflops"....he has been championing how the Swiftboat thing has to be something ugly and personal.

These guys were set up and propped up at exactly this time for exactly this reason to decapitate Kerry.

I hope and believe that they will have to live with their consciouses. Given time...they should get a sufficient backlash from true veterans that want to preserve the sanctity of service and not use it as a vehicle to specifically destroy one of those who served. How could they ever sink so low?

They may have some tid bits of information which could potentially disproved the actual real time accuracy of what exactly happened....or that Kerry was "overzealous" with the first purple heart....but as we know....this is not reality....this is a shameful head hunting expedition created for the sole purpose of taking ONE MAN down.

Chris Matthews was keen to point out that "it has to be personal". Yes Chris...that's one part of it. Chris proposed that these guys were viewing Kerry as some pretty prep boy that got in and got out and now he's doing good. So they were completely pissed off when they heard him say that there was something wrong with the "rest of them" for what they did in Nam.

I liked this explanation because it's getting a bit closer to the truth. Want to know the real truth?

First...the timing tells you quite simply it was brought to bear today to destroy one person. That's nothing to do with what he said at the convention or some BS that Kerry's run revolves around his Vietnam record. That's BS. This is an orchestrated plan of vintage personal destruction...aka Clinton, aka McCain...by people who are sick and congregate to these causes because they are arrogant and ignorant.

Second....Kerry went in...and he went very swiftly and efficiently out. Only 4 months and all these awards...of course these guys can revel in jealousy over that....although they'd never admit it. But sheer hatred over his anti-war statements....that's there business.....their opinions....and F'em if they think that way....but keep that out of any BS about trying to PROVE that he's no good.

The worse possible truth in any of this is Kerry was not aware of the exact criteria for the first purple heart and no one could blame him (or countless others) for seeking such awards. That's the name of the game and anyone with half a brain knows that.

Meanwhile....exploiting this general anti-war hatred and/or prep boy status or whatever else must be recognized as an exact plot to destroy the man by propping up war veterans who have mixed emotions about possibly a thousand different things. This is certainly one of the darkest days in American history....and it makes me truly ashamed to be an American.

[TNOE]

6. I watched some parts of it

during commericals of something else. Have to really watch my intake and can't take too much of the Bushies. HOWEVER, I was surprised and pleased and sickened of the video taken of Jr. at the Republican convention when he was younger. He looked just like the ass he is today only moreso - dancing some stupid dance, bushy eyebrows, he looked so damned pathetic dancing - I was glad they included that. Yes, America, here is your pResident, aren't you proud. They did mention several times how "ruthless" he turned out to be and demanded complete loyalty to his father.

[wadestock]

9. Yes the dancing.....

how could I have forgotten that....didn't look like something he's be doing in the frat house after a 5th of JD?

Attempting to portray anything about this family as being "pure American" was a real stretch....and obviously as hard as they tried and as much as the Bushes live in Stepford land they couldn't avoid these tell tale signs.

My wife was particularly curious about the "Bush compound". I told her the story of a friend of mine that vacationed in the area and had someone take him on a boat "within the limits" of the where they'll actually come out and shoot you. Evidently he was in the military and they knew him....but to impress my friend they swarmed in on him and then he gave them the high sign.

Just another touching family moment.

[burythehatchet]

8. It was horrid and really deflated my MSNBC hopes

the part revering prescott with absolutely NO MENTION of his nazi partners was criminal, at best.

[UdoKier]

10. No mention whatsoever of Prescott's business seizure/trading with enemy.

And yet some DUers think MSNBC has embarked on some new progressive renaissance...

[Karenina]

11. Or mention that ol' Prescott

was forced to MOVE for sporting awards he DID NOT EARN. :evilgrin: