I'd like to ask you some questions

[BonjourUSA]

We will not able to use our ballot in November but we are concerned by the American vote. Because if the president of the USA is not the President of the world, the world is involved by his decisions.

I know you're DUers and day after day I ask myself if you're reprensative of the American population but you represent for me the top of the basket ("le dessus du panier" in French).

1) Why the American voters could be more than 50% for Bush then he'd get only less than 20% in the rest of world (less than 10% in France, Spain, Poland...) except in Israel with 43%.
Many of you explain with the american mind pollution by mass media. But I can't agree with this explanation because it means at least 100 million of American are deeply stupid and that's statically impossible (I hope so).

2) Why if these almost 50% believe in Bush for a stronger America do they consent to a policy of weakness ?
The American fiasco in Iraq is so important that your country is not able to envision an intervention anywhere in the world anymore, justified or not.
Some examples : Pyongyang has just canceled all the meetings about the North-Korean nuclear weapons and called Bush "idiot" et "little Hitler". He didn't react, the USA lied down. Iran, about the same issue, shows its long range missiles into a massive military parade, and it says it will not hesitate to use them in a first strike. The USA lies down.
Sharon decides to increase the israeli implantations in Cisjordania. The map road defended by Bush is out, but the USA lie down and ratify.
We're going to stop there.

3) Why almost 50% of the American people vote like they was rich ?
Health policy, social policy, taxes policy, employment policy... All the Bush's decisions seem to be a disaster for a great majority of them. Absolutely unthinkable for us.

[olddem43]

1. Why so many Americans vote against

their own interests is the topic of much debate. We can't understand it either.

[Killarney]

2. It is the media

Unfortunately.

That does not mean 50% of America is stupid. Just trusting. They don't understand how the media has changed and how the media distorts the truth and is biased.

Read the Right Wing Noise Machine (I think that's the title, it's David Brock) and it will explain how this can happen.

[July]

7. And they can't really believe that their government is so wrong.

It goes against the common American belief that the U.S. is the best country in the world and the exceptionalist view that whatever the U.S. does must be right. People bought the Iraq war justifications because they really didn't think their govt. would lie about something so important (and I know some very intelligent people who bought that idea). It's the negative face (naivete) of American optimism and the can-do spirit.

[UdoKier]

46. It's not just that. It's also our education system and nostalgic outlook.

We were all raised in an education system that basically told us how noble and good we white christian folk were to settle and tame this great land, how we saved the "good" indians from savagery, and only killed the "bad" ones. We were taught that the USA NEVER starts wars of aggression or takes over other countries. The facts about Hawaii, Cuba, the Philippines and any number of other conflicts are spun and glossed over.

We're taught about all the wonderful reforms that occurred after the depression, but not about the unrest that would have eventually led to revolution had they not been done, or about the union people who DIED so that we wouldn't have to work for company scrip anymore.

We're indoctinated into believing the most unbelievably rosy portrait of America as breadbasket, treasure-trove, land of opportunity, and benevolent savior of the world, that any ideas that undermine that image are simply unthinkable to a large portion of the population. They see incidents like Teapot Dome, Vietnam atrocities, Watergate, Bhopal, Silverado S&L, Iran-Contra, Enron, etc. as anomalies, rather than just the tip of the iceberg.

Much like this billboard that taunted the famished millions during the depression:



We are still told that the USA provides the best way of life to the greatest number of people in the world, and that those who don't make it are just "lazy". That "Only in America could a poor (insert job)'s son/daughter grow up to be the owner/CEO of (insert lucrative business)."

Of course, anyone who's spent mucch time around the world can tell you that such rags-to-riches stories are JUST as common in other industrialized societies. Check out the story of the founder of Honda, for example. He started out tinkering on bikes in his garage!

So many of us cling to that hope of someday "hitting the big time" or the lotto or whatever, rather than supporting an agenda that would actually produce a better quality of life for all, just not that big Beverly Hillbillies payoff.


At least that's my theory - desparate people clinging to the hope of a jackpot...

[chelsea0011]

3. Tough to understand the American public

The 50% number is much smaller. Usually 50% of registered votes show up to divide up the votes. Bush gets support from about 25% of the country. What is surprising is that the people who stay home are the people that would most benefit from voting against Bush. Question 3 makes the least sense to me. The middle class is being crushed by the Bush polocies but he gets strong support from them. The ones fighting his war are the one's who should be strongly against him. I don't unserstand their support. the rich who benfit from Bush just sit back and do nothing but reap the profits. Their children aren't fighting the war overseas.

[mmonk]

4. The problem is

a weak media here now only looking for ratings and dollars. Many who will vote for bush are not well informed on matters around the world and tend to believe the republicans no matter what they say right now. I've never seen the situation as it is today and I turn 48 in October.

[htuttle]

5. It's not that 100 million Americans are deeply stupid

I'm not sure stupid is the right word. Maybe it is.

There are at least 100 million Americans who don't pay attention to ANYTHING, who find abstract thought PAINFUL, and who make their decisions based on the most primitive of primate signaling.

You see, thinking Bush is 'tough' requires no leaps of logic. The television TELLS us he's 'tough', ergo, they think he's tough. In order to realize that in reality he is showing increasing weakness to the world, you'd have to be able to understand that 'B' follows 'A', that effect follows cause. That's 'WORK', and they don't want to do it.

Okay. Maybe they ARE stupid. But it's as much because they've been trained to be that way as anything else. Stupidity has become a virtue in some quarters. I do think Americans HAVE gotten less intelligent over the last 40 years, and with many it's a matter of choice. Elective stupidity. It's not genetic -- it's nurtue, not nature, that's to blame.

Then there's a whole crowd of people who aren't stupid, at least not in this way, but they've given up on the political process, so they don't vote. Maybe this is just stupidity of another flavor.

Finally, the peculiar stupidity of Americans is encouraged and played up by the mass media. It's in the interest of corporate backers for us to be 'dumb', so not only are things that make us dumber enouraged, but our very dumbness itself is exaggerated. Being 'not-dumb' and able to understand cause and effect is supposedly 'out-of-step' with the mainstream.

[LearnedHand]

40. GOOD call, ht

Very cogent answer.

I think there's also something at work that's very similar to what African Americans sometimes experience: other African Americans sometimes accuse them of "acting white" just for being a very smart person or for studying, or whatever.

Maybe we are experiencing the Bubba principle here in this country; if we look smart, or tolerant, or like anything other than a Bubba-and-his-big-truck-with-stupid-wheels type, we must be librul, must hate our country, must support those terra-ists.

[Child_Of_Isis]

6. One of my theories

is that a lot of Americans like to call themselves Republicans because it is said (and perceived) that the more money you have, the more republican you are. While I disagree with this and perceive the exact opposite to be true...nothing scares the American populace (in general) more than someone thinking that they do not have wealth. No wealth equates to laziness, undisciplined, fraud of the government through welfare programs, and fallen from the grace of god. In our world, if you are not wealthy, it is because you are reaping your just rewards. One is just not 'godly' enough.

[G_j]

8. loss of critical thinking skills

"critical thinking" is not really valued in this culture.
It is taught less and less in schools. Then excessive TV is destroying people's ability or desire to think for themselves.
American culture has been in the process of being 'dumbed down' for a while.

[democratreformed]

13. Bingo!

That's the only plausible explanation I can come up with. Many of our citizens no longer know how to think for themselves. Or, some of them have very flawed logic and aren't capable of reason.

I am furious that some people keep repeating crap from generations ago. For example, "At least he's keeping the war OVER THERE." and "The Democrats want to raise taxes and support all the lazy people."

What do we need to do? It is driving me nuts.

[stewert]

9. Propaganda Works !

The media here is nothing but right-wing propaganda. If you say it long enough people will start believing it.

Most of the problem is the media, they have ran polls showing 60% of Americans believe Saddam had something to do with 9-11 and that Iraq was working with Al-Qaeda.

That 60% did not dream it up, they were misinformed and mislead by our corporate media.

We have a corporate media that misleads the people every day, all day and all night. That is why 60% of the people are misinformed, they are not stupid, they are just lied to so often they believe it.

Bush and the Republicans use the media and the bully pulpit of the office of the President to put out a steady stream of propaganda. Propaganda works, and when you control the media you get your propaganda out so a lot of people believe it.

Bush goes on TV and claims to leave no child behind, when the facts show he has left millions of children behind. But the media lets him get away with it so nobody knows the truth except for the news junkies who read liberal web sites on the internet.

It's a little more complicated than that, but that is the basic explanation why so many people vote Republican. They are lied to and they believe the propaganda because the media does not set the record straight. Most of our media is owned by corporations who support Bush, so we are flooded with right-wing propaganda 24/7 on all the news channels.

[kentuck]

10. Thanks for the compliment, BonjourUSA ....

It's good to think tha we are not the bottom of the barrel. :)

Why do 50% of the voters go for Bush and the Repubs? When it is not in their own interests?

First of all, take note that only about 50% of eligible voters actually vote. So 50% of that would be 25% of total eligible voters.

Why? Because the power of propaganda is stronger than the power of any self-analysis. It is inbred over many generations. As a songwriter in America has mentioned in one of his songs, "Grandpa was a Carpenter", when asked why he voted for Eisenhower, he said because "Lincoln won the war". It is generational loyalty in a lot of ways.

National Healthcare is socialistic. Ummm bad!

I hope these few words help in some way. :)

[BonjourUSA]

18. I spend time with you for more than a year.

I couldn't do that with the bottom of the barrel ! :)

My only regret : I am not fluent in English. And when I write to you my tongue falls down on my comput and some big drips drop from my brow.

Thank you for your answer

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

36. I love your broken english! It's cute and endears you to us :)

[BonjourUSA]

45. I am very in anger against William the Conqueror.

If he had imposed French on all England instead of seeking linguistic
compromises, you would speak French today. :)

[welshTerrier2]

11. my two cents

bonjour, mon ami ... comment va-tu??

my first point is in response to your question about why there is a difference between the US perception of bush compared to the rest of the world ... i think two key reasons for the difference are:
1. the rest of the world ONLY looks at foreign policy as an issue and
2. nationalistic propaganda is sold to the American people.

After the invasion of Iraq, it was considered almost unpatriotic to "question the President". Even our domestic press refused to do its job and far too many Democrats went along with bush. What internally is seen as nationalism is externally seen as arrogance.

my second point concerns your question about domestic issues. Why, indeed, do so many Americans vote against their own best interests. Many seem blind to the realities of class warfare. I'm afraid that the reason for this is just pure ignorance of the issues. Even the left is guilty of such ignorance. I frequently ask people I meet to clearly explain why they support or oppose a given candidate. The answers are usually very vague. Most people form judgments about candidates on foolish things. They make statements like "I just trust him" or "he just seems really smart." It's nonsense.

I'm afraid it all comes down to political advertising. They label Kerry a flip-flopper. You ask people why they plan to vote for bush and they tell you that it's because Kerry is a flip-flopper. You ask them to give you examples of Kerry's flip-flopping and they cannot respond.

So the U.S. empire will not survive because our people don't respect the importance of their active, informed participation in democracy. And in the meantime, the whole world suffers ... for this, you have my sincere apologies, mon ami ... trust me, we're trying to wake up America ... but we're not having much success ...

[AG78]

12. My answers

"1) Why the American voters could be more than 50% for Bush then he'd get only less than 20% in the rest of world"

We're told we're exceptional. We're not supposed to care what other people around the world think of us, especially the French, and now the Spanish.

"2) Why if these almost 50% believe in Bush for a stronger America do they consent to a policy of weakness?"

We're told that Bush is a strong leader.

"3) Why almost 50% of the American people vote like they was rich?"

We're told to believe in the American Dream.

And it's been a 30 year movement to pound that message into our heads. The Culture War in America is all too real. They make enough people hate the "values" of liberals, all the while they take more and more from the very people that follow them.

For example:
Hate Hollywood? Hollywood too liberal? Vote for us. We control what goes on in Hollywood, because we own the corporations that control Hollywood. So we'll just keep making Hollywood too liberal, to keep you hating Hollywood, and to keep you voting for us to "stop" what Hollywood is doing.

It's just a never-ending cycle. You have to admit, they're good at what they do.

Why do people buy it? I don't know. They use every trick in the book though. Be it religion, the use of language, media, whatever. They use it all.

And of course we're chosen by God. Manifest Destiny and all that.

[Ganja Ninja]

14. "100 million American's are deeply stupid"

Believe it! That's the short explanation. We could go into more detail about religion, gun control, the economy and national security but in the end it really comes down to people being greedy, belligerent, stubborn, arrogant and stupid. Lincoln once said "You can fool all of the people some of the time and some of the people all of the time." The typical Bush supporter comes in two categories, 1. rich and looking to get richer and 2. foolish people voting against their own best interests for one reason or another.

Take the right to life movement. They have been voting for republican's for over 20 years. Republican's control all three branches of government. Yet abortion is still legal and it doesn't look like it's going to change anytime soon. They can loose their jobs, their health care, their pensions. They can watch their sons be sent off to war for bogus reasons. They can see their schools decline and it just doesn't register no matter what.

[leftofthedial]

15. it is not 50% of the American people who support the bushgang

it is 50% of likely voters. "Likely voters" can mean pretty much whatever a particular pollster wants it to mean. Usually, it means people who are registered to vote and who plan to vote this time. The right wing has been very successful at mobilizing its voters in the past, so they are disproportionately represented in these polls. Pollsters also apply other filters on this number, so the basis for the polls is actually much smaller than the overall US population.

According to the FEC, 51.3% of those eligible vote in the US actually voted in 2000. THese are the largest possible base of the "likely voter" population. So "50%" of that 51%, less the other criteria pollsters use, really only represents about 20% of Americans. That is still an appallingly large number of stupid, ignorant or evil Americans, but nowhere near half of Americans support the bushgang.

The pressing question is why are so many Americans disaffected?

[BonjourUSA]

34. have some studies been made about the disaffection of the American for ...

...the main base of a democracy ?

[leftofthedial]

37. I wish more could be done about that issue

One factor has been a fifty-year-long or longer domestic campaign by the right to turn off the electorate.

They oppose anything that makes voting or educatiion about the issues easier.

[Eloriel]

16. I can only tell you what Abraham Lincoln said

I am a firm believer in the people. If given the truth, they can be depended upon to meet any national crisis. The great point is to bring them the real facts. -- Abraham Lincoln

The truth is in terribly short supply in our national media. For example, all the instances you cite? We've never heard of them. Not even DUers (that I know of). Simply not reported here. Period.

How, really, can you expect Americans to do the right thing when they haven't a clue as to what's really going on?

To call us stupid, as some of my DU friends have agreed, is terribly short-sighted and simplistic. In Nazi Germany, there were some Germans who knew or suspected the truth of what was happening, but the vast majority did not. Why? Because as someone said upthread, propaganda works. FEAR works. Our mainstream media is largely a propaganda arm of the Bush administration.

In another thread which I started I posted the link to an article that gives an overview of the Bush Crime Family's fascist ties, including with Nazis. It shows, from one way of viewing it, the Big Lie(s) that have been rife in our country for many decades now -- since BEFORE the 2nd World War. (See Wanna know where today's Fascism came from? Look here http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=104&topic_id=2282969&mesg_id=2282969 )

That article demonstrates just how much mythology ("Big Lie(s)") that would have to be overcome for the people of this country to really understand what's going on. Several posters to that thread said they were sending the article around to many of their friends. Unfortunately, I fear that unless those friends already have an inkling or a clue, they'll most likely dismiss it all completely out of hand. The contents violate completely their worldview and our prevailing national mythologies.

We're not stupid. We are many things, but not stupid (well, some of us are, of course). We just don't have access to the truth and not enough people even suspect there's a "truth" that they need to ferret out.

Good to see you again.

:hi:

[welshTerrier2]

19. ignorance versus stupidity

too often we conflate ignorance with stupidity ... the American people are clearly ignorant ... they lack knowledge of far too many important issues ...

whether the problems we face are also caused by stupidity remains to be seen ... one could certainly make a case for the effectiveness of the right-wing propaganda machine and excuse those who fall victim to its influence ... your statement: "We're not stupid. We are many things, but not stupid" is uplifting ... it allows for the eventuality of enlightenment ... hope remains a possibility ...

but, taken to another level, to a darker more pessimistic level, one could also argue that those who fall prey to such propaganda and are unwilling or unable to look beyond it, are indeed stupid ... if not stupidity, what then will we call the measure of those who accept the statements of power and refuse to question those statements? i've never been fond of the term, but are those who fail to "question authority" indeed "sheeple"? surely the acceptance of information without question, especially information clearly so harmful to a person's own self-interests, must be, at least to some degree, an indication of stupidity ...

so i look to your response seeking hope, but remain sadly pessimistic ...

[G_j]

20. deliberate stupidity?

I get the feeling that many Americans are proud of their ignorance.
After all, we're Americans! Isn't that enough? God blesses us and made us superior. Since we are superior, why do we need to actually know anything else? This is exemplified by Bush.

[Eloriel]

24. America the Good

We are not taught in school that our leaders have ever been anything but good people (except Nixon, of course) with the best interets of the United States and her people AND the world at heart. We have not been taught that our wars have been imperialistic adventures to benefit our large corporations. We have not been taught what our CIA has been up to since its inception.

What this means is that there is a built-in paradigm, worldview, or mythology that our head of state is a GOOD man (Nixon and Bill Clinton notwithstanding). It is very, very difficult to crack that paradigm for those who are not by nature cynical or prone to question authority. And there are many, many Americans who are totally unwilling to question authority -- it's the way they were raised (often in authoritarian households), or perhaps they just prefer things to be simpler (black and white).

surely the acceptance of information without question, especially information clearly so harmful to a person's own self-interests, must be, at least to some degree, an indication of stupidity ...

For some, probably it is stupidity. For others it's simplicity (a type of innocence) and naivete, and for still others it's denial. We have a whole nation in denial, and some of the worst "in denial" folks are our Democratic elected officials! Even THEY give George Bush the benefit of the doubt re his sincerity and intentions!!!! (Now how can we fault everyday, average Americans for their "stupidity" when the people who are in a position to KNOW better apparently don't??) And there is yet another group who are apparently fascism-prone by nature --

The F Scale
(Measures one's authoritarian personality profile, which makes one receptive to fascism, based on research done after WW2)
http://www.anesi.com/fscale.htm
link posted here: He's Acting Like Nixon in the Final DaysHas Bush Gone Over the Edge? (has some good links re fascist personality, etc.)
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x1725171

[wiggs]

33. "well informed public"

I believe Lincoln also said that a well informed public is the basis of democracy. How important is it for BushCo to maintain a high level of deception and secrecy in order to keep even 50% of the voters (what, 20% of the total population?) in his camp?

Distortions and secrecy are key to his presidency and his campaign...and this undermines our whole system of government and elections. Congress cannot effectively make decisions if information from the executive branch is false (IWR, Medicare, unauthorized 700 million to Iraq) or withheld. Voters cannot choose their leaders if incumbents lie about their true records, lie about their opponents character, keep secrets (Energy Task Force, Justice Dept memos re Abu Ghraib, Edmonds), and punish anyone who doesn't spin their way (Thomas, Gregory, P. Oneill, R. Clarke, Wilson, Plame, Edmonds). And clearly it hasn't hurt for them to sprinkle in some baseless fear (duct tape, axis of evil, orange alerts).

Control of information = power. This has never been so true as it is now, where the performance of this administration is so bad that an all out deception on every level is needed to mislead a small percentage of the population into voting for BA.

[Eloriel]

43. You are entirely right, but there's more to it

Think about this (and I'm repeating myself from other threads and posts, but I'll do it again):

The ONLY thing the Republicans have to offer is LIES (well, as someone pointed out after one of these similar posts, also fear and greed, but IMO the lies come first).

They have to lie about who they are, and often run as stealth candidates, or candidates who merely make up stuff about themselves (e.g., compassionate conservative).

They have to lie about their agenda. Michael Moore is right. The country is FAR more liberal than we are led to believe. In poll after poll, OUR position on ISSUES trumps theirs. Time after time. That's why they have to do everything the can to camouflage what their positions really are.

They have to lie about us, the Left.

They have to lie about their legislation, giving the bills Orwellian names like Clear Skies Initiative, No Child Left Behind, etc., etc. Why? Because, the people of this country favor OUR position over theirs, hands down, overwhelmingly.

They also have to lie to themselves, early and often, about all of the above and more.

So in many ways the Bush administration is just the logical conclusion of all that lying -- a caricature of itself.

[jeffrey_X]

38. "As scarce as the truth is the supply is always greater than the demand"

nm

[Commendatori]

17. Taking your questions one by one

I haten to point out that this is all my opinion; other DUers may not agree.

1) Why the American voters could be more than 50% for Bush then he'd get only less than 20% in the rest of world (less than 10% in France, Spain, Poland...) except in Israel with 43%.
Many of you explain with the american mind pollution by mass media. But I can't agree with this explanation because it means at least 100 million of American are deeply stupid and that's statically impossible (I hope so).

You are under the assumption that everyone eligible to vote actually takes the time to vote, and nothing could be further from the truth. If we had a law making the vote mandatory like Australia does, Bush would be extremely lucky to get a third of the vote.

Voter apathy is largely due to a.) ignorance of the issues, b.) overall indifference towards anything outside of one's own situation, c.) living in a state where the voter's candidate has little or no chance (Kerry in Texas or Bush in Massachusetts, for instance).

The media bit is also correct (and is somewhat responsible for reason 'a' listed above), and, sadly enough, your own statistics on how Bush would score over there are in his favor when they get widely reported, because there's a whole lot of American arrogance that leads people to attitudes along the lines of "well, hell, if the French don't like him, he's got my vote, and the Spanish caved in and let al-Qaeda overthrow their government in March, blah, blah, blah..." The more Europe speaks out against Bush, the more some of our people (we call them "Repugs") think "it's worth putting up with him just to see the Europeans whine some more."

I can tell you that even a few Democrats I know liked the way Bush snubbed the United Nations in the first half of 2003. Not good.

2) Why if these almost 50% believe in Bush for a stronger America do they consent to a policy of weakness ?
The American fiasco in Iraq is so important that your country is not able to envision an intervention anywhere in the world anymore, justified or not.
Some examples : Pyongyang has just canceled all the meetings about the North-Korean nuclear weapons and called Bush "idiot" et "little Hitler". He didn't react, the USA lied down. Iran, about the same issue, shows its long range missiles into a massive military parade, and it says it will not hesitate to use them in a first strike. The USA lies down.
Sharon decides to increase the israeli implantations in Cisjordania. The map road defended by Bush is out, but the USA lie down and ratify.
We're going to stop there.

The USA is only lying down until November. If Bush wins, I would say North Korea and Iran are almost certainly next on our hit lists, and one of the two WILL attacked. However, his ratings couldn't take the hit if he attacked either country now, so what you're seeing is not a rteflection of how Bush wants or intends to act. Had Iraq gone as smoothly as Bush thought it would, we'd be in Iran or North Korea right now.

As for the road map, it was a dimwitted idea; that situation cannot be solved diplomatically until new people are in charge over here and over there, and maybe not even then. Clinton did everything possible in 1993 to put an end to that lunacy, and it didn't work. I believe in diplomacy in many cases, but I am convinced that without leadership change, the only way that problem will be solved is to let the two sides slug it out - people say that the only thing needed is "greater understanding," but those people understand each other perfectly, and hate each other. Period. Without leaders with the courage to buck public opinion, war is the only answer (it may well be to begin with in this case), and my guess is that Bush would prefer to see one start before any progress is made, because they're always a way to cash in if you look hard enough. You can bet that Bush will defend Israel, and he'd love to hop in. The three instances you state of the USA "lying down" could each change into war within the next year or two, so wait until November, because until Bush has no risk of losing you won't see anything close to what his real policies are.

3) Why almost 50% of the American people vote like they was rich ?
Health policy, social policy, taxes policy, employment policy... All the Bush's decisions seem to be a disaster for a great majority of them. Absolutely unthinkable for us.

Because so many of them believe they eventually WILL be rich, and when they are they don't want to pay 70%+ in taxes. The dot-com boom in the 1990s made a lot of millionaires, and a LOT of people think that they're just one smart investment away from millions.

I've been guilty of this, too - I voted for Reagan in 1984 and Bush in 1988 because I saw Mondale and Dukakis as people who would have no problem taking 90% of my "future fortune," which I considered would be a given. By the early 90's I was approaching 30 and finally woke up. I still do believe in tax cuts and controlled government spending (I don't care which side is in charge - if you can't run this country on two and a half trillion dollars without running a deficit, quit and go home), but Bush gave us the former without the latter, and he even picked the wrong way to give us the former. Meanwhile, wasteful spending rises, much of it in the military. So our deficit grows, and a lot people will still vote for anyone who promises to cut taxes, simplify them or both - without looking at any picture other than their own checkbook. Take my word for it, because in the 1980s I was exactly that type of person, and so was almost everyone else I knew.

[BonjourUSA]

21. To be strong doesn't mean to be able to strike the whole world.

It's already impossible for US to keep order in Iraq with 150 000 soldiers for a country of 26 million of inhabitants.

Clinton led, courageously and intelligently, a peace process in Palestine. Israel exists only by the massive drip of US dollards. This situation gives major means to the USA for acting.

In Iran, slowly but surely the youth was winning against the cleric power until Bush relegates Iran into the Camp of Evil. This youth was attracted by the US image and the mullahs was just afraid of US muscles.

Liban could be able to win more emancipation. But Syria is feeling less under pressure because the US army doesn't have the capabilities to open a second front and it's foisting onto Liban its candidate for the "election".

Arabia is becoming inside gangrened by fundies and terrorism groups. It could be the first country to fall in this region with all the consequences

[Commendatori]

22. You misunderstand me

I was attempting to tell you the midset of the people who vote for Bush, not defend them. My preface about the post being "my opinion" means "this is my opinion of how Bush voters think," not "this is how I think."

By the way, I'm keeping my fingers crossed for your two journalists. Good luck.

[BonjourUSA]

26. It was just a general thinking

I apologize if you understood it was for you. But you're right, my English is not very good and I can do mistakes.

My opinion, shared with many French : it is not only a hated, aggressive, isolated but objectively a weakened America which is embodied today by Bush. Some can be overjoyed, not me and not the huge majority of French people

[Commendatori]

28. Don't apologize

Your English is excellent and I respect you for posting in my language, as I am completely incapable of posting in yours. :)

[TahitiNut]

23. Americans are 'math-challenged'

An amateur gambler at a casino will get about 98% of his money back. A state lottery gambler will get about 50% of his money back. A 'grass roots' GOP voter will get about 5% of their money back.

They then consider themselves part of the "ownership class." If that ain't stupid, I don't know what is.

The general level of political knowledge in the US is probably less than 10% of what I found among French citizens when I worked there for 3.5 months. It was amazing to me that the average Frenchman I talked with knew more about American politics than the majority of people in my own family.

[Eloriel]

27. Well THAT should prove my point about the media

The general level of political knowledge in the US is probably less than 10% of what I found among French citizens when I worked there for 3.5 months. It was amazing to me that the average Frenchman I talked with knew more about American politics than the majority of people in my own family.

[BonjourUSA]

30. If you worked with French you know "only" 61% of them blindly believe..

the TV news
That's too much yet.

More than 53% read at least a daily newspaper (more in the regions than in Paris) and about 35% a newsmagazine. (This stat is increasing). British are better I think, I don't know for German

[Kellanved]

35. about the same in Germany

More newspaper readers (about 60% AFAIR), 40% believe their newspaper, 30% the TV news. AFAIR, that is.

[merh]

25. Much of what you posted is not known by a majority of the

American people. They don't want to know any more than they need to know, it is either too frightening or too appalling. I actually have had friends tell me that they just don't want to know when the government makes a mistake.

"Ignorance is bliss" for some.

Also, the media is a big problem. It is that simple and that scary.

On edit: Thank you for the compliment regarding DU and thank you for your concerns. I think you type English exceptionally well! (heehee).

[Hutzpa]

29. Hundred million Americans are deeply stupid....

But I can't agree with this explanation because it means at least 100 million of American are deeply stupid and that's statically impossible (I hope so).

I totally agree, otherwise you won't get 50% voting for him, but there is one thing that I might add to this theory, that 50% of Americans are deeply BIGOTED, these are Bush's supporters and he knows it too, its all about minority being wiped out completely and they are using minority to do it too.

Think about it for a second.



:think:

[tjwash]

31. It boils down to one thing:

...selfishness. It is freely admitted and proudly accepted. You will never have a conversation with a conservative, who does not use the words "I, me my, or mine" in just about every sentence.

Symbiotic to this, is also a basic intolerance which permeates every philosophical, political and social issue that conservatives set their collective voices to. Once again, if you are lucky enough to converse with a conservative, they will often cite examples of "the other," or "those people." It is a callous, often violent disregard for anyplace or anyone considered different then them.

I could go off for pages on how a handful of corporations have bought up most of all of the media outlets, and reduced it to nothing more than a PR department for the White House, so I won't. Let's just say they are very good at whipping up people into a frenzy.

Finally is the corruption of Christian values, and the equal corruption of patriotism. These have been the immensely successful propaganda tools used by the wealthy to keep turning the uneducated, working class people voting against their own self interest. with all this combined, conservatives can be bunched into two types; the ones who have nothing, and blame liberals, minorities, and foreigners for it, and those that have everything, and use all of the above tactics to keep it that way.

[Tsiyu]

32. Answers for you

1) many Americans do not understand their history. Right wingers like to talk about "revisionist history" but they are the masters of it. Gone are the massacred Iroquois and Apache and Cherokee and Lakota Sioux and Navajo. No more witchburnings, lynchings, child sweat shops, tenements.

Just a lot of Great White Christian Guys taming the lascivious nature of savages. And Dubya is one of those guys. You see, to Bush, Christianity is a Social Club, a Country Club whose members have special privileges. And even though the mass of his voters will not see hide nor hair of these privileges, they support him because they are led around by their noses. Who leads them? The local preacher who takes their donations while convincing them that Bush hears God himself. The talk show host spewing hatred against anyone who has a different opinion. Their own hangups about homosexuality and abortion.

2) Bush has to move slowly right now. An election beckons. Once he steals it, he can force our kids to invade more countries, and then he can relax in Crawford again. But don't look for any help from Buswh in taming Israel. They take it literally: that part in the bible that says any nation which comes against Israel will be crushed by God himself.

3) See Answer #1


And Boujour, thanks for asking....Maybe you understand how tough it is for us right now.

[nomatrix]

41. Amen, Budyhollysghost!

I lived in the biblebelt for a spell.

Ah, Bonjour, do you recall the other little war we had, no not Vietnam. The war between the North/South, our Civil War. It was an ugly chapter (we have a few) involving the rich landbarons who got rich from slavery. Yes I know, we had some presidents who owned slaves and were rich because of it. Can you believe how many people died because of this? I mean we killed our own people. It must be so strange when you hear this government say, mass graves, and he gases his own people, when that too is a part of our own history.

Now this was told to me by a southerner, a very political southern. Shhhh....
The southern republicans believe they are really, white only and even if they hated their own guy, wouldn't vote for a democrat because we are a multi ethnic party. I really couldn't believe how shallow that was, they are proud of who they are. So though they may say, all the wonderful endearments about the party, lets look at 2000. John McCain who has really been a fair GOP senator, and would have got democratic votes was elimated by the Bush thugs in a phone campaign about his adopted child. What did they say that was so bad? She was black. He fathered a black child. Ended his run, but is now one of Bushes lead off speakers. Confused? don't be. Don't try to equate anything good with this. After almost 4 years, I find nothing about this group suprises me. Only makes me ashamed. Now that they have hyjacked all the branches of our government, they are the face that represents America. There is a cancer on this country.

Yes they think very differently than we do. They think they are Americans and Christians because they say so. There is nothing about this group that represent either. We are about to be bankrupt. The lemmings will follow. We will not go down easy this time. No, I don't see that happening. We have a clear majority. These poll numbers are not real. Once everyone figures out, we will have no social security, well maybe they will snap out of it.

[Tsiyu]

42. Good on you, too, nomatrix

Yes, only Caucasions built America.

Never mind that the Chinese built the railroads. Or that the Mohawks built the skyscrapers. Or that the Africans built the plantations. Or that the immigrants from every nation were the workhorses of the Industrial Revolution. Only Whitey man has done anything noble. His wimmin stay home and make babies while the Whitey man goes out and conquers the Savages.

Too funny. And after all this time, such "learned" men still can think of no more compelling a task than destroying "those other" humans and their accomplishments.

Fundamentalists reek BAD JUJU!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[BlackVelvetElvis]

39. Excellent questions.

And equally excellent responses.
It's all about power and the all-mighty dollar. Corporations are so consolidated and so greedy. There is little competition on a larger level and politicians in this country are so indebted to these companies for the PR and campaign contributions. Rampant capitalism at it's most evil (except maybe health care).
I think many Americans (maybe most) are so self-absorbed and lazy. If finding out a little of what really goes on in the world takes some effort on their part, they opt out. Why? It's not on television.
This also answers your second question: if it's not on tv, why bother? Sounds simplistic? There's no sound bite that can be digested in less than a minute..."hey, I don't have the time". By the way, your examples were excellent. I wonder that myself.
Sometimes I think more people would be interested in these things but the news is so dumbed down. People just have to make an effort to learn.
Answer to your third question: It's reeks of socialism. For some reason, cold war rhetoric still exists and has power. See answer #1 for our lack of action with health care. When it finally effects the wealthy, then something will probably be addressed.
I sound down on our citizens. In a way, I am. I am very disappointed in Americans for not trying harder, doing something constructive and learning something.
Despite this, I know that there are model citizens out there and that gives me some hope.

[Arugula Latte]

44. A lot of Americans are religious

and by religious, I mean religious in the take-the-Bible-literally way. And therefore these people are easy to brainwash and obviously put no importance on reason, facts, nor science. They can be led by the nose. And there are millions of these morons.