Please help me respond to this email re:

[chemenger]

A little perspective for your weekend musings…
 
There were 39 combat related killings in Iraq during the month of January.....
 
In the fair city of Detroit there were 35 murders in the month of January. That's just one American city, about as deadly as the entire war torn country of Iraq.
 
When some claim President Bush shouldn't have started this war, state the following ..
  
FDR...
led us into World War II.
Germany never attacked us: Japan did.
 
From 1941-1945, 450,000 lives were lost,
an average of 112,500 per year.
 
Truman...
 
finished that war and started one in Korea,
 
North Korea never attacked us.
 
From 1950-1953, 55,000 lives were lost,
an average of 18,334 per year.
 
John F. Kennedy...
started the Vietnam conflict in 1962.
 
Vietnam never attacked us.
 
Johnson...
turned Vietnam into a quagmire.
 
Vietnam never attacked us.
 
From 1965-1975, 58,000 lives were lost,
an average of 5,800 per year.
 
Clinton...
 
went to war in Bosnia without UN or French consent,
Bosnia never attacked us.
 
He was offered Osama bin Laden's head on a
platter three times by Sudan and did nothing.
 
Osama has attacked us on multiple occasions.
 
In the two years since terrorists attacked US!
 
President Bush has ..
liberated two countries, crushed the Taliban, crippled al-Qaida, put nuclear inspectors in Libya, Iran and North Korea without firing a shot, and captured a terrorist who slaughtered 300,000 of his own people.
 
The Democrats are complaining
about how long the war is taking, but...
 
It took less time to take Iraq
than it took Janet Reno to take the
Branch Davidian compound.
 
That was a 51 day operation.
 
We've been looking for evidence of
chemical weapons in Iraq for less
time than it took Hillary Clinton to
find her Rose Law Firm billing records.
 
It took less time for the 3rd Infantry Division
and the Marines to destroy the Medina
 
Republican Guard than it took Ted Kennedy
to call the police after his Oldsmobile sank at
Chappaquiddick, drowning Mary Jo.
 
It took less time to take Iraq than it took
to count the votes in Florida!!!!
 
Our Commander-In-Chief is doing a GREAT JOB!
 
The Military moral is high!
 
The biased media hopes we are too ignorant to
realize the facts.

[DelawareValleyDem]

1. Two things quickly come to mind

Germany declared war on US

Civilian advisers, or some such phrases, were sent by Eisenhower to Vietnam in the fifties.

On Edit: Here is a brief description of the personnel Eisenhower sent to Vietnam.


http://members.tripod.com/archer2000/vietnam.html

[dammit905]

2. Well, Detroit is a dangerous city....

No, seriously... the deaths in American cities are sad and a problem unto their own. But it's irrelevant. The bottom line is that these are people's children... kids who haven't wronged anyone, kids who only wanted to protect the country they love... sent over to a place where they didn't belong and being killed daily. We've created more terrorists, which is another wild card in the future death count, Osama bin Laden is still on the loose, we've completely squandered the REAL coalition against terrorists we had built through sympathy... I mean, I understand this guy's a freeper and doesn't really comprehend the subtlety of situations like these, but there are a lot of implied factors here besides "Hey man, it's just 30 kids dying a month, it's nothing.. yeah, nothing!" So... Yeah. Sad.

[bryant69]

3. well there's the obvious

Iraq is a disaster. Yeah we beat the Republican Guard, but it's turning out there is a lot of very dangerous even deadly work to go.

Bryant
Check it out --> http://politicalcomment.blogspot.com

[RobertSeattle]

4. So much BS so little time

Perhaps the best technique is to just pick one of the "points" and disassemble it for the feeble mind that sent this to you. In example, the "He was offered Osama bin Laden's head on a platter three times by Sudan and did nothing" has been completely discredited and is even in the 9/11 report.

Page 110 of 9/11 Report:

Sudan’s minister of defense, Fatih Erwa, has claimed that Sudan offered to hand Bin Ladin over to the United States.The Commission has found no credible evidence that this was so.Ambassador Carney had instructions only to push the Sudanese to expel Bin Ladin.Ambassador Carney had no legal basis to ask for more from the Sudanese since, at the time, there was no indictment outstanding.
(Foot note 7)

[demnan]

5. This may help - you'll have to sift out what you need

http://www.snopes.com/politics/war/combatend.asp

[maine_raptor]

6. Oh this is just too easy

On FDR: Why do you want to keep Hitler in power?

On HST: Why do you want the North Koreans to put South Korea into slavery.

On JFK: Why do you want Ho Chi Min to control Vietnam?

On LBJ: See above

On WJC: Why do you support genocide?

On GWB: Why do you hate America so much?

[Mz Pip]

7. Here's a good link

To another DU discussion aout the same e-mail. I've been bookmaking threads to use for just this kind of crap!

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=2103974

MzPip
:dem:

[wryter2000]

8. Oh,sheeze

I've seen this one so many times.

1) Tell the idiot who sent it to you that it's so long and so full of bull that you can't possibly address all the errors. Just because you don't dispute one particular point doesn't mean you believe it.

2) There were not 39 deaths in Iraq. Call the idiot an inhuman creep for ignoring all the Iraqi deaths. Iraqis are people, too. Then, point out that most likely there were more American deaths because of the administration's failure to count most American deaths as "combat related." Then point out that there are about 100K Americans there, and the population of Detroit is probably over a million. Plus, things are way worse now.

3) Roosevelt did not start World War II. The Japanese attacked Hawaii. Ask the moron if he's ever heard of a place called Pearl Harbor. We then declared war on Japan. Does the idiot think we shouldn't have? Then, Germany declared war on us because they were Japan's ally. Besides, most folks put us down for not doing something when Germany invaded Poland.

3) Most idiots accusing Janet Reno of acting too aggressively against Koresh. Does the idiot think she should have gone in with guns blazing on day 1?

4) Ask the idiot who is the source for all this information. Does he believe everything he gets on his e-mail? The version I saw came from some individual who identified himself as an IT Admin at the American Automobile Association in East Tennessee. I get my information from better sources.

That's all I can handle for now. Now, I'll go take another shower.

[skygazer]

9. There was a long thread debunking this a while back but

For a couple of things, Detroit has a far higher concentration of Americans than Iraq does. Besides, are 39 combat deaths in a month really acceptable?

JFK didn't get us into Vietnam - Eisenhower did.

Germany declared war on us.

The offer of Osama from Sudan was not from any legitimate government source but from a discredited private individual.

Iraq is not liberated, the Taliban is not crushed and Saddam was not a threat to the US.

Iraq is not "taken", not when men and women are dying every day there. So those ridiculous comparisons of apples and oranges are invalid anyway.

[TransitJohn]

10. For this one

It took less time to take Iraq than it took
to count the votes in Florida!!!!

They never counted the votes, remember?!?!?!?!?!?!?

[markses]

11. Several Responses

1) The population of Detroit (according to the 2000 census) is 951,270. The population of American troops in Iraq in January was 140,00. So, proportionally, in order for US soldiers to be killed at the same rate as the people of Detroit, 265 Detroit residents would have had to have been killed in the month of January (140,000X = 37099530..divide by 140,00 = 264.999etc.). By the way, 47 Americans died in Iraq in January 2004. You can read all their names at the following site: http://icasualties.org/oif/.

2) Germany declared war on the United States of America December 11, 1941. The United States promptly responded by de4claring war on Germany.

3) North Korea attacked South Korea on June 25, 1950. On June 27, 1950, the UN Security Council called on member nations to provide aid to South Korea.

4) The initial push was indeed quick, as most predicted. However, the war seems to still be going on. So all those "time frame" comparisons are worthless. We are currently in month 18 of the Iraq War. In the 60 days since the "handover of power," 117 Americans have died in Iraq - 130 coalition troops total. Is the emailer claiming that these lives are beside the point, simply because the number is not 50,000? Does the emailer care so little for US troops?

5) The emailer says "moral" is high. I believe the emailer means "morale."

[jdj]

13. either that or the e-mailer is high.

thanks for these snippets.

[markses]

14. More on the Detroit comparison

In 2003, 361 people were murdered in Detroit. Earlier this year, there was some alarm that the rate had increased at a dramatic 50%, which could lead Detroit to have its highest murder count since 1994 (another Bush accomplishment, by the way!); estimates, given the trend, are at 500 for the year. So let's go with that number. Let's say there are 500 murders in Detroit this year.

Currently, 432 coailtion troops have been killed in hostile fire this year in Iraq. Let's subtract all coalition casualties (39), even though some of these were nonhostile, just for the sake of argument. We're left with 393 American troops killed by hostile fire in Iraq since January 1. Now let's do the math, taking into account the variant populations of US troops in Iraq, which we'll hold at a steady 140,000 (we're not even distinguishing between those in high combat and low combat areas, by the way), and the population of Detroit, at 951,270.

So:

393/140,000 = X/951,270

X = 2670

So, in order for Detroit to be more dangerous for Americans than Iraq, its murder rate - even after the dramatic increase to 500 in the year - would have to increase 5 times. And we're even lowballing the Iraq KIA rate and highballing the Detroit homicide rate! Oh, yeah, and it is only August. Whatever hostile deaths occur between now and the end of December in Iraq will only increase this proportion. It seems to me that the comparison is pretty much worthless, unless you want to indicate that even the most dangerous cities in America, even experiencing a dramatic rise in its crime rate (thanks for the tax cuts and unemployment, "Presidenmt" Bush!), are 5, 6, or 7 times safer than being a US troop in Iraq. If that's the point, then I agree!

Perspective, indeed!


SOURCES

Detroit Population:
http://detroit.areaconnect.com/statistics.htm

Detroit Murder Rate Figures:
http://www.detnews.com/2004/metro/0404/08/a02-116786.htm

Hostile and Non-Hostile Coalition Deaths in Iraq
http://icasualties.org/oif/Timelines.aspx

Total Coalition Casualties, by Month:
http://icasualties.org/oif/

Basic Mathematics:
6th Grade, New York City Public School

[jdj]

12. Ee-Rack ain't even been took YET.

them and afghanistan ain't been liberated

the talyband AIN'T been crushed, that whole place probly looks like that scene in Oz where they sack out in the poppy field, the only people happy 'bout how 'ghanistan turned out is junkies.

we all know there's funky bizness goin on with Libya, but N Korea and Iran?

seriously though, I thought they wasn't keepin track of them ee-rackies.

So the 39 must be us. In other words, no poppy's baby rich cokehead spoiled punk sociopath primogeniture nightmare got killed, so who cares? Nobody in that 39 that mattered.

If I had a kid, I wouldn't want them in Iraq or Detroit.
Not even for one weekend a month. If they chose to go to Dee troit,I'd live with it.

But none of these kids chose this, and very few would stay if given the choice.