Catholic DUers, can you help? Know anything about catholic.com?

[antigop]

There is a voter guide at the www.catholic.com website.

http://www.catholic.com/library/voters_guide.asp

Anybody know who put this together?

[Eric J in MN]

1. I can't answer your question, but there was an op-ed

in my local paper, the Minneapolis Star Tribune, in which a man said that in the name of Catholicism, those same things are non-negotiable.

A letter-to-the-editor replied that helping the poor, health care for all, etc. should be non-negotiable.

[antigop]

3. Who says they are non-negotiable? Other than Bishop Sheridan?

I think Bishop Sheridan of Colorado put the 5 non-negotiables in a letter to his diocese. I don't think they are the official position of the Catholic Church.

Anybody?

[StClone]

2. Don't know

Contact a Catholic diocese for guidance. The Catholics were ripe for picking on the abortion issue but the the "Just War" killing of innocent makes me shake my head.

[2Design]

4. Interesting....where is thou shalt not kill which is one of the ten

commandments.

This is very political and will go against the best interest of all people based on false information and an ideology that hurts people.

Voting rethugs means less for the majority of people.

This is a very good reason not to be catholic any more.

[2Design]

5. I hope we have enough intelligent people in this country to vote

against this BS.

These chistian churches are really starting to piss me off. Jesus Christ was a kind and compassionate person to all. These churches are not.

If you have read Joshua, that is what this reminds me of. The holier than thou are the villians here.

[dflprincess]

6. I've been lurking over there in their political forum

They're mostly a bunch of freepers. There are people over there who don't consider Bush to be prolife enough because he'd permit abortion in cases of rape, incest or for the mother's health. Occassionly someone tries to reason with them but it's hopeless. (I'll give them this much, from what I can see they don't ban people who post opinions they don't like).

I haven't followed this thread too carefully over there, but they're apparently upsets because the Bishops have put out a voters guide that must not agree with their's and the Bishops may be telling Catholics to ignore the catholic.com guide (I haven't looked at either one.)

Some of their other forums are entertaining (I have a sick sense of humor). Apparently, Vatican II was something I just dreamed. They had a thread running one time asking "What made you leave the church". I was tempted to get a userid so I can respond with "this website".

[antigop]

7. Thanks, but I think some churches are referring to this voter guide

I need to know if the voter guide at catholic.com is the OFFICIAL position of the Catholic Church.

I don't think it is. And if churches are referring their parishioners to this website, the churches aren't giving their members the correct information.

[dflprincess]

9. As far as I know

neither the website nor its voters guide are official instruments of the Catholic Church. Assuming from what I've read over there that the Bishops have their own guide I would assume that that one would be the official church position.

[alcuno]

11. As far as I know, the Church does not have an official voter's guide.

Catholics don't need a guide to tell them that the Church opposes abortion, etc. However, opposing abortion doesn't mean the same thing to everyone. Most of us believe that abortion is a sin that would have grave personal consequences. However, we also consider it a moral question, not a legal one.

If churches want to pass out this kind of material, it's their right. They cannot endorse individual candidates, but they can certainly advance the Church's position on issues.

Even my parents, who are strict Catholics, get real squeamish when the Church dabbles in politics. It's unseemly.

[antigop]

13. Ok, I'm not making it clear

You say that "If churches want to pass out this kind of material, it's their right".

But churches should adhere to official position. I don't think the five "non-negotiables" are the official position of the US Conference of Bishops.

I think the people who put the Voters Guide at catholic.com may be trying to pass it off as the "official" position.

And if churches are passing out this Voters Guide on Sunday, it is clearly misleading to say the least.

Who says these five things are "non-negotiable"? I don't think the US Conference of Bishops has said this. I don't think the Vatican has said this.

[alcuno]

14. Well, if you look at their references, they've got a couple of

organizations I'm unfamiliar with. As they've quoted him, I'm sure that the Holy Father has made statements, but there is no official Catholic voter's guide.

Obviously, this organization is the one determining what is non-negotiable.

[AngryOldDem]

18. NO, NO, NO!!!! This Book Is GARBAGE!

This book (also put out by Catholic Answers) is NOT the official stance of the United States Conference of Catholic Bishops.
Their book is Faithful Citizenship, and is available to order at www.usccb.org. I have read it, and I recommend it. It clearly states the Church's position that voting is a matter of one's conscience.

If your church is promoting The Voter's Guide for Serious Catholics as the election tool, make your voice heard. This is nothing more than GOP propaganda disguised as Church teaching and it has no place in a parish. Complain. I did, and my church now has a formal policy in place concerning distribution of political material and church grounds. But despite that, the other night at a meeting of a service group at my church -- where we discuss the working poor, homeless, etc. -- one member had the absolute gall to get up and spout this line of crap. Most of us immediately asked, "What does gay marriage have to do with feeding the homeless?" He said he found the tract in the church.

But I'm convinced this year that most Catholics don't want the correct information, and are more than happy to sit by and let people who are so adept at spewing MISINFORMATION tell them how to vote. Much easier than thinking for oneself. One of the things I absolutely hate about the Catholic Church.

If you see these tracts lying around your church, do your fellow parishioners a favor and PITCH THEM.

On edit: Dropped word fix, wording change.

[merh]

8. This link may help you. . .

Cardinal Ratzinger's note underlined the principles involved for the Catholic voter.

"A Catholic would be guilty of formal cooperation in evil, and so unworthy to present himself for holy Communion, if he were to deliberately vote for a candidate precisely because of the candidate's permissive stand on abortion and/or euthanasia," Cardinal Ratzinger wrote.

"When a Catholic does not share a candidate's stand in favor of abortion and/or euthanasia, but votes for that candidate for other reasons, it is considered remote material cooperation, which can be permitted in the presence of proportionate reasons," he said.

In other words, if a Catholic thinks a candidate's positions on other issues outweigh the difference on abortion, a vote for that candidate would not be considered sinful.

http://www.jknirp.com/thavis3.htm

[dignan27]

12. and i'm sure that voting for a pro-capitol punishment

Would be the same sort of formal cooperation with evil, making a person unfit for Communion. I honestly don't know where I stand about the policy of 'it's "evil" to vote for someone who supports an "evil" agenda' I can understand where they're coming from, but man I can't stand the hypocrasy. I'm Episcopal, I went to Catholic schools and believe me, our school was as outspoken against capitol punishment as it was against abortion, more so probably. I remember a number of organized trips to offer candlelight vigils for people on death row on the night of execution, I can't recall organized trips to scream at women outside of abortion clinics. Yeesh...

[ok_cpu]

10. This exact voter guide

in print form was included with my bulletin at Mass a few weeks ago. Not sure who put it together, though.

On edit: Without regard to any guide, my conscience tells me that while neither candidate is perfectly in line with the Catechism, Kerry is much more in line with the Church, especially on respect for life issues (like unjust wars and executing as many people as possible) and caring for the poor, etc.

[alcuno]

15. Welcome to DU, ok_cpu.

Good to have you here. I haven't seen this guide at mass.

[ok_cpu]

17. Thanks for the welcome, alcuno. n/t

[AngryOldDem]

20. Listen to Your Conscience

<<<Without regard to any guide, my conscience tells me that while neither candidate is perfectly in line with the Catechism, Kerry is much more in line with the Church, especially on respect for life issues (like unjust wars and executing as many people as possible) and caring for the poor, etc.>>>


He is.

[newyawker99]

21. Hi ok_cpu!!

Welcome to DU!! :toast:

[nini]

16. As a Catholic.... they're not going to tell me how to vote

I can't vote on one issue ...there's too many things on the other side that I feel are more evil when you add them all up. All the Catholics I know feel the same way.

I don't know who that group is but they sound like the Gibson type Catholics.

[AngryOldDem]

19. It It Frankly NONE of Their Business

We can get into too much trouble voting on one issue only, or supporting a candidate on how he feels on one issue only. Case in point: The "leader" we have in office now. He may blow us all up, but he's against abortion, and if you're a "good" Catholic, you have to vote this way.

I have tried to argue the above point with conservative "pro-life" Catholics, and it's like debating with my three-year-old. If all they care about is getting babies born, I wish they would begin to care just a little about what happens to to these babies once they're here. I see what happens to some of them on a daily basis, and what I see goes against every other so-called Catholic social teaching that I know of. But still, the clarion call: Abortion, abortion, abortion.

And I'm becoming not a little hurt and more than offended that my status and worth as a Catholic is being judged solely by the Kerry/Edwards sticker on the back of my car. There is more to me -- and my faith -- than that.

EDIT: wording