INSTANT KARMA: Live Plame in Chicago!

[H2O Man]

(A) The DU Plame History

The Plame Grand Jury has reached an exciting new stage in the past week. Those familiar with the case know that this grand jury has been doggedly investigating the White House "exposing" CIA operative Valerie Plame's identity. A series of "Plame Threads" on DU has examined the case in great detail.

Three papers from those threads should be of particular interest. First, the Waterman Paper looks at "who" played a role in the conspiracy to expose Plame, and "why". Next, American Judas put forth a theory on who benefited from Plame's being exposed. And a paper on our constitutional democracy examined the threat this case poses to the concept of the separation of powers in our federal government.

The Plame Threads were initially used to educate the far left wing of the democratic party on exactly what was at stake in this case. We then began to reach the main-stream democratic party, including some of our elected officials, with this valuable information.

The high quality of much of the work on these threads attracted wide-spread attention on the Democratic Underground. Many interested people contributed in a variety of ways, from researching to letter-writing, making our effort a successful example of internet-based grass-roots political action.


(B) Live Plame in Chicago!

We would all love to see "Karl Rove frog-marched out of the White House in hand-cuffs" today. We deserve to see that film clip played over and over on the network news shows. And it is looking like the federal grand jury is going to provide us with some very significant results -- and soon.

Two recent DU threads (both are current on GD) entitled "PlameGate" and "Plastic Ono Plame" have links and analysis of numerous media reports spanning the past two weeks. These articals show that the grand jury, while moving slowly, has been thorough.

Recently, the main-stream news media gave the Plame case more attention than usual. This is because the hard-hitting prosecutor and the no-nonsense judge are going by the book. They are following the law. And that means forcing some journalists to testtify about what they know about the White House officials who violated a federal law. While many editors and reporters felt it was a 1st amendment case, our coordinated DU threads have shown that the ACLU's top expert on the 1st amendment believes the journalists should cooperate fully with this investigation.

In the past three days, information on the investigation has indicated that the grand jury may be coming to a highly successful conclusion. (See reports on PlameGate & P.O.P.) As reported on the original Plame Thread, there will be indictments of some officials from the Vice President's office. Things are getting hot in both Chicago and Washington, DC.


(C) Help Is On The Way!

The Plame Indictments will pose one of the most explosive threats to the Bush Administration in the fall campaign for Election:2004. Coming at the same time as the theater release of "Uncovered: the War on Iraq," which features 22 experts (including retired CIA analysts), this case will demonstate the criminal behavior of high-ranking White House officials.

The separation of powers in the fedral government does not allow a legislator running for the executive office to campaign on a judicial case that is being heard at the time. (Old-timers on DU will recall when President Nixon risked causing a mistrial in a famous California case when he declared a defendant "guilty.") Thus, neither Kerry, Edwards, or the democratic campaign will be able to give this case the attention it deserves.

But we can! Help is on the way!!!

We're going to form the "PlameBoat Veterinarian's for Truth!" We are not associated with the Kerry campaign, and are not even on the GD:Campaign 2004 pages of DU. We're just in GD. And you don't have to a veteranarian to join.

We need volunteers to help us write letters to targeted media sources. We'll be writing letters (snail-mail preferred) to two newspapers or news shows per week. These letters will not reflect a far-left point of view -- our goal is to reach the middle of the roasd voter, to show them the extremely dangerous criminal behaviors of Bush & Cheney and their friends. (Our more outrageous comments will be found on DU.)

The first round of indictments will likely not include Dick Cheney. Our goal is to promote a public awareness of his direct connection to these crimes. We need your help. Please read the "updates" on this thread in the up-coming days, and consider helping us out.

Thank you!

[H2O Man]

1. Trouble for Judith Miller:

Editor & Publisher has a good article on the up-coming problems for NYTimes reporter Judith Miller, a close friend of John Hannah. See:

http://www.mediainfor.com/eandp/columns/shoptalk_display.jsp?vnu_content_id=1000617707

found at news at google (Plame)

[H2O Man]

2. "Rumor has it....

that there is a break in the Plame case, in which a prominent neocon in government service has turned state's evidence and is 'singing like a canary.'" From "The Neocon Civil War," by Justin Raimundo at AntiWar.com:

http://www.antiwar.com/justin/?articleid=3444

[H2O Man]

3. Will Dick Fall Off Scooter?

Yes, folks, Dick Cheney's top aide Scooter Libby is going down! See:

http://www.nytimes.com/2004/08/25/politics/25press.html

[merh]

4. Allegedly, Novak has received a subpoena ... see other thread

lancdem (1000+ posts) Wed Aug-25-04 10:37 AM
Original message
Source tells me Novak has been subpoenaed in Plame investigation
If that's the case, the investigation really could be close to concluding. I wonder if he'll testify or risk being held in contempt?


http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x2261638

[H2O Man]

6. big news:

Regarding the "rumor" that Bob NoFacts is being called in front of the Plame Grand Jury, I'd say verification can be found in "White House Briefings" by Dan Froomkin, in which he quotes this beautiful paragraph from a Carol D. Leonnig story:

"Lawyers and journalists involved in the case say that Fitzgerald is going through a methodical process of elimination for all contacts between reporters and senior administration officials last summer, and is waiting until the end to question Novak."

The fact that reporters again asked Novak's attorney yesterday if old and moldy Bob was called to testify, and the calls are going unreturned, gives us assurance the rumors are true.

We're going to enjoy this.

See:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A32031-2004Aug25.html

[kohodog]

16. Great news! Especially about nofacts

If the other journalists have been interviewed and someone in Cheney's office has flipped, Nofacts will be in a precarious position if he lies. Perjury isn't cool. And unless he's being charged with a criminal act I don't think he can plead the fifth. And the judge isn't messing around with reporters. Evan Nofacts must consider jail and $1000 per day more than a slap on the wrist. I'm ready for some good news!

And I'll gladly write some more letters.

[hang a left]

25. He will have to check his teeth into property too. n/t

[LibertyorDeath]

71. H2O Man I could Kiss You!

I should, I could, I Will if you get within Kissing distance. :)

Cheers for this Great News !

[lanparty]

73. I think Scooter will be the fall guy ...

... though, I'm pretty certain that he wouldn't do it with out Big Dick's permission.

Scooter will do 5 years in club feb than retire to a comfy salary at Halliburton.

[Tight_rope]

91. Thank you Waterman...you have made my day with this article.

"In his earlier ruling in the Plame matter, Judge Hogan said a Supreme Court decision from 1972 known as Branzburg required Mr. Cooper to disclose his sources. "Branzburg,'' the judge wrote, "makes clear that neither the First Amendment nor the common law protect reporters from their obligations shared by all citizens to testify before the grand jury when called to do so.''"

This comment is what I have been waiting to hear for weeks.

Although, I don't comment on the Plame threads, rest assure that I am reading them. Yes, America is "WATCHING".

Waterman :yourock:

[peacetalksforall]

21. http://www.mediainfo.com/eandp/columns/shoptalk_display.jsp?vnu_content_id

I believe there is an unnecessary 'r' in mediainfo.

[RobertDevereaux]

5. How grand it would be...

...to see this finally come to the front burner and bubble over!

[loudsue]

7. This is a great opportunity to get more of this story out...

:bounce: and I look forward to doing just that! :bounce:

However... one question that was raised on another thread that still has me concerned:

If all of this comes out in indictments BEFORE bush is out of office (provided he loses) <hope!>, can he just turn around and "pardon" everyone on his way out the door? Or...even if he is re-selected, can't he just pardon the whole lot of them? Even based on just the indictments?

:kick::kick::kick:

[supercrash]

8. Well...

He can pardon these guys even before they are convicted...for any crimes they commited that are related to this issue

If he choses to do so...

[loudsue]

13. That's what I'm worried about....

And for that reason, alone, I wish this indictment phase could wait until after we see who is elected POTUS. I feel like if Fitzgerald is AT ALL sincere about his attempts to prosecute this crime, he would understand the politics involved, and at least hold off until he sees whether bush is re-selected.

Then, if bush IS re-selected, Fitzgerald may as well go ahead with the indictments, because bush will pardon them anyway.

But if KERRY is elected in November, Fitzgerald should hold off on any indictments until after January, after the inauguration, at which time bush would no longer be able to interfere in the administration of justice.

Is there any way that our letter-writing campaign can include requests for TRUE justice, and waiting for the November 2 event, due to the VERY OBVIOUS criminal intent of the bush administration IN GENERAL??? (Lying about the 2000 election, lying about his TANG records, lying about WMD's, withholding the finance director's figures for the true cost of war from the Congress, lying about no foreknowledge of 9/11, and his VERY OBVIOUS secrecy and clicquishness within his White House...etc., etc.)

I mean, you don't have to be a genius to know what bush would do to obstruct justice!!! Even a neocon idiot knows that much...it's just that the neocon idiots AGREE with bush doing these things!

Or....is there a very real possibility that Fitzgerald KNOWS all of this, and the republican blood running through his veins makes him want to get these indictments out NOW....so bush can go ahead and pardon the treasonous bastards??

Fitzgerald's timing on all of this is a little suspicious to me. Yes, it may hurt bush's candidacy if this DID come out before the election...though, of course, the news media would spin it, or bury it, to minimize the real damage. But if Fitzgerald actually intends for JUSTICE to be done, he should be slowing this down a little bit, until we know what happens on Nov. 2.


:kick::kick::kick:

[democrat_patriot]

23. It needs to happen before and help us

win the election.

[tblue37]

62. I believe a president can issue a pardon

even if the beneficiary has not been indicted. In fact, I think that is how Bush Senior protected his own henchmen.

[lanparty]

77. Nov 2 is still a bit away ..

... the issue at hand is the Republican convention. It is near decision time on dumping Cheney. If they make a switch, it has to be before the official nomination.

[louis c]

19. Who Gives a damn

I don't care who goes to jail, I just want this to come out before the election.

If Watergate came out in September, 1972 instead of 1973, Nixon might have lost.

I would rather see Bush lose then worry about who goes to jail and gets pardoned.

If Bush's subordinates get pardoned before a defeated Bush leaves office, the Repukes won't control the White House or Congress for a decade.

The most important thing is that indictments of high ranking officials come down before October 15th. I want two weeks for it to sink in.

[AgadorSparticus]

60. I understand where you are coming from, but I'd rather they

do it right and make it absolutely airproof than go too fast and get sloppy. This is the time I think we can invoke the neocon strategy of association. We need to have it in the news consistently. People will respond to it by association. When Kerry gets into office, we can shift gears and go for the jugular.

[hang a left]

26. I have wondered if there is a way for congress to block

pardons from an ongoing investigation.

[0007]

69. Does any crimes they committed, refer to WAR CRIMES?

[sam sarrha]

74. V Plame was searching for WMD's !! for the CIA.. Lost her Contacts

[lanparty]

76. Not before the election he can't ...

Bush is teatering on the side of a cliff. Pardoning Scooter Libbey (rhymes with Liddey hmmm...) would be like the bird that lands on his hood and pushes him over the cliff.

[H2O Man]

14. hi, Sue!

Good question. Bush can pardon anyone. But he's in a bind. Remember back on a Plame Thread (probably you were on your honeymoon!) we discussed a section of Wilson's book that focused on the split between Karl Rove and the VP's office. To separate himself from the controversy, Bush has to place all blame on Cheney and Libby. If he pardons them, Bush lumps himself with their criminal behaviors. The fact that the Air Force One communication records were examined by Fitzgerald, and Bush has an outside attorney means Bush is going to need to distance himself from this.

Cheney's little statement on gay marraige may seem like mere politics, and an attempt to distract attention from other issues. But if you look closer, it may indicate a growing rift between the offices of the president and vice president.

[loudsue]

20. Hi, H2O Man!

:hi:

You're right: I didn't see the discussion of Wilson's book about that split between the Rove camp vs. the VP camp. I DID make note of Cheney's philosophical departure from the neocon agenda yesterday (gay marriage), so now I'm wondering: Do you think that they're going to dump Cheney if Fitzgerald goes after Libby? AND...what happened to Rove's part in all of this? I thought Rove was the one that told Tweety that Plame was fair game.

Also: What happened about the Air Force One communication records? Did you guys get to the bottom of any of that...were there "leaks"?

Diversion here: On the note about my honeymoon> No sooner had I returned from the trip where we got married, when w/in 6 days we had my mother in law in the intensive care unit at the hospital, 1 1/2 hours away, where I spent most of every day for 3 weeks. She died last Tuesday, and we buried her Saturday. The few times I got on the Plame threads during that time (when I had time, and needed to "unwind"), I had some Alpha Female gestapo person hammering my posts and demanding that I find links for every statement I made (which, of course, I DIDN'T have time for)....so I just didn't participate or become involved any further in those threads...there was already too much unpleasantness to deal with. So...I HAVE lost out on some of the "good stuff" about Plame with my intermittent involvement.

The Plame case continues to engage me, however, and I'm very interested in participating in getting the news out there! :hi:

:kick::kick::kick:

[coeur_de_lion]

22. Loud Sue

I'm very sorry to hear about your mother in law. My condolences.

[loudsue]

27. Thanks, Arbusto..

She was one great lady. I already miss her a lot.

:kick:

[laylah]

32. My condolences

to you and your new hubby. Take heart...she watches over you still...just from a different location :hug:

Jenn

[H2O Man]

34. Sue:

On Cheney: These are difficult things to speculate on. I think that some of the information that will come out will hurt him. I think there is a 1 in 3 chance he will be dropped "for health reasons." Our helping to get the subject of Plame covered in the media will increase those odds.

The AFO records were examined in the spring. They are looking at what media sources were called in July 2003. More, there appears to be a focus on who was involved in the effort to cover this up after the leaks occured. Just like in Watergate etc, (ask Martha ... Stewart got caught for her lies in attempting to cover-up her actions) the cover-up is also a crime. Fitzgerald was aware of the White House oficial who bragged that they had "covered this with earth-movers."

The break-up of the old Plame threads was unpleasant, but it's water under the bridge. The talented core continued on with the PlameGate and Plastic Ono Plame Threads. And here we are today. And, once again, we are reaching out to the more casual DU Plame readers, asking for their help on this.

[democrat_patriot]

35. Cheney droppd - McCain steps in?

Is this a plausible scenario?

[H2O Man]

44. Yes, certainly.

I hope that Cheney is forced off. McCain is an obvious choice if that happens, though not the only one. Many on the extreme right would demand an exteme right replacement for Cheney. Ex-mayor Rudy G is another obvious choice that the extreme right would reject. Who else do you see that the neocons would like? How about an older dad figure like James Baker? I think he's in line if Cheney drops out.

[democrat_patriot]

58. You don't Cheney on the ticket is a negative

for the Right?

His poll number are pretty bad.

[Tight_rope]

96. Oh!...I hope not James Baker the "Janitor"!

Yes! The Bushies may call on the "Janitor" to help dig them out of the shit holes that they get themselves into. But it's no secret that the "Janitor" despises the Bushies.

"It's hard not to suspect that, at some deep level, Baker remains disappointed with himself. He hates his Mr. Fix-It reputation. He reportedly wanted to vomit when Time put him on the cover as Bush's "handler." He loathed traveling with Bush because he was treated like "a goddamn butler." He called his campaign work for Ford "demeaning."":puke:

http://slate.msn.com/id/93754

[alilenas]

106. Possible Cheney Replacements

I think that if Bush thought McCain would run with him Cheney would be out for "health reasons".

I think that five people might be more likely choices.

1. "Uncle" James Baker. I realize that he is not a big fan of Shrub, but I also think he will believe that he can do some repair work so the whole ship of state doesn't sink. He also isn't perceived as a great friend to Israel which may become a major issue depending on the outcome of the current spy scandal. His age also leaves the way clear for Jeb and George P.'s succession.

2. Sen. Elizabeth Dole Solid right wing credentials. Her husband whored himself for Bush. Won't be a challenger in '08.

3. Sen. Chuck Hagel Would be perceived as more moderate. Shores up midwestern base.

4. Sen. Zell Miller Also a father figure (important to Shrub as Water Man points out). Gives that bipartisan look to the ticket for the dull witted. Might make sure that Tennessee, Arkansas, Louisiana, and North Carolina stay red.

5. Rudolph Giuliani It would mean an apparent move to the center for Bush. Might have too much integrity to let the looting continue though.

[DURHAM D]

107. Elizabeth Dole choice makes soo much sense - would

explain why Bob has been acting like such a gutter snipe lately.

[Tight_rope]

108. Welcome to DU alilenas

[sam sarrha]

75. would McCain stoop so low as to pardner with that leiing sack of shit...

[lanparty]

78. Spread em wide McCain ...

... while Bush assfucks you like a whore.

That would be effectively what Cheney would be if he became the VP candidate. Right now, Cheney is just allowing Bush to take him to dinner and be seen publicly.

[Tight_rope]

95. "Cheney's little statement on gay marriage may seem like mere politics"

Yes! I would say the same. Up until this point it's been Bush* following Cheney's lead. Now Cheney is saying that he's following Bush's* lead. Tell me who is really the leader. Even if Cheney was leading, as pResident, Bush* will be held accountable. The people, the world will say Duyba was in charge and that he should have had Cheney in check.:spank:

[coeur_de_lion]

9. Thanks for the excellent summary, H2O. I think we may in fact

have reason to break out that champagne we put on ice (back in July) very soon. :bounce:

H2O, who would you suggest our "target" for letters be now? Mainstream media? Just let me know and I will put together a list of email/snail mail addresses.

I am more than willing to continue the letter writing campaign, even escalate it a little bit. Anybody else?

[democrat_patriot]

24. Get me some addresses

2,000 addresses, and Micro$oft mail merge. Sounds like fun.

[coeur_de_lion]

33. great attitude!!! thanks!

I'm working ont it!! (The addresses part!)

[coeur_de_lion]

10. More on Plamegate:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x2159749

[coeur_de_lion]

11. Plastic Ono Plame:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x2208623

[BillZBubb]

12. Sorry for the pessimism / cynicism but

I'll believe this stuff when I see it. We've been hoping here for a long time that something will come of this BEFORE the election. I really doubt it. It seems to me it will be like Watergate. Nothing happening legally until after the election.

The prosecutor may (or may not) be doing an excellent job, but this is going too slowly to help us in November.

[H2O Man]

17. With an organized effort

we can make it an issue. Just like Kerry was hammered with lies by the Swift Boat Veterans after the democratic convention, we can hammer the republicans with the truth about Plame. For a small investment of 1/2 hour and two stamps per week, you can become a member of the PlameBoat Veterinarians For Truth. Now is that a good deal or what?

One issue today in our culture is that people do want things to happen quickly. It would be great if the indictments were handed down on July 14. But they weren't. And that's because the other side has been fighting this from happening tooth and nail. Why? Because it is so important. It's worth us organizing and working to bring the truth to the public.

[kohodog]

37. Email and snail mail

Snail mail may be more eccective in some cases. Again, I think our individually written letters are more effective than a blast from hundreds of people with the identical message.

[EST]

47. May I assist?

n/t

[coeur_de_lion]

57. you bet! send one of the letters (see post 50 and 55)

to any of the mainstream media. Get others to join you. Spread the word. I hope you'll help us!!!

[Tight_rope]

98. I totally agree with you...."Somethings...Good things take time"

Waterman, I must say that I truly respect the fact that you stand your ground when you are continuously attacked by those who want things to be done in a hurry. You know the type, those who only believe in “instant gratification”…the “I WANT IT NOW" type.

An ole saying goes, "Some people like to eat their soups hot...but I like mine cold"! It goes without saying that many of us are enjoying this drawn out battle of the repukes. It's delightful and quiet amusing watching the repukes boat slowly sink with no life boats or life jackets to help them stay afloat. Let them drown in their own stupidity.

[coeur_de_lion]

15. CALLING H2O -- IS YOUR EMAIL DOWN?

My emails to you are being returned.

Check your DU email, I sent them there.

[coeur_de_lion]

18. H2O ABOUT EMAIL

The message I get is that your server is not accepting messages. I can get yours but you can't get mine. They come back immediately.

Can you check with your ISP?

We'll have to stick to DU email for now. Yuck.

[MGKrebs]

28. I'm in, and a note...

I say forget about about possible pardons or other ramifications. The only two choices at this moment are to push the story, or not. I don't think there is really any choice.

The Bush* administration will be doing all they possibly can to suppress this story. That is the battle we choose. Cheney has got be be vulnerable on this, and surely they don't want to have to deal with all of the details surrounding him right about now.

They may have Faux News and the Prescription Medication Abuse Network, but we have Alterman, Palast, Buzzflash, Dean, Pitt, calpundit, and countless others.

10 weeks to the election, and another 11 or so until the inauguration.

Let's roll.

PS- I would prefer a name not so close to the Swift Liars, as once we are through discrediting them, it won't look (or feel) so good anymore. :-)

[coeur_de_lion]

29. Great points! Well said and

you are absolutely right! Right now we can't worry about pardons or anything else. We have to get this in front of people.

I'm excited that so many people are willing to help out with an email campaign!

:bounce:

[H2O Man]

30. Great points!

And on the name -- I'm sorry, that's not at all serious. It's a sad attempt at humor.

But back to the serious points: you are 100% correct .... we need to only be concerned with what we do now. The Bush folks are responsible for what they do. And likewise, the media is responsible for what it does.

We need people who will connect us with the other groups you listed. And people who will write letters to the media. I think that I'll put up one example on here in an hour or so.

"Let's roll." I like that a lot.

[loudsue]

31. Sign me up!

I'll do whatever I can!

:kick::kick::kick:

[laylah]

36. I'm in!

Although I have never had the time to completely read the entire Plame threads, I am, however, aware enough to participate in a letter campaign(although my "verbals" are even better :evilgrin:). Keep me posted!

As for the timing of indictments, for ME, I would rather see the little *bastard and his minions embarrassed and frog marched AFTER President Kerry is sworn in. As another poster stated earlier, they will have NO way out then. :bounce:

Jenn

[Martti]

38. I'd like to help

Greetings,

I have been reading DU for quite some time now, and to my wife's great displeasure, I have became willfully addicted to it.

You people here have really cured me from my previous false image, that all of U.S. is inhabited by loud and arrogant ignoramuses.
The thing is, that I and those close to me have become quite worried about your countrys decline in quality. Actually, worried doesn't even cover it. Scared, would be more appropriate, you being the nuclear superpower and all. Religious fundamentalism is bad news everywhere else in the world, so why should you make a difference. And to know that "War President of God" has his finger on the button, makes me really question the chances of humankind.

This is my first post, but as I said, I have been a frequent reader here for months. So what made me take the step? We'll, often I have been thinking "How could I help in the coming election?". And now you've given me my chance. I'd like to volunteer to write snail-mails. Perhaps Finnish post stamps will stand out :). I have to confess, that helping the American people is not the sole reason for me to do this. I firmly believe, that the whole biosphere of this rock of ours will benefit from the removal of * from power.

As for the Plamegate matter, I find your collective work here quite astonishing. Never have I seen such an effort been made by a large group of strangers over internet. Hopefully this starts a trend.

Oh well, its 3am here and Its an early wake up, so I'd better get some sleep.

Thank you again from restoring my faith in the American people.

Yours truly,

Martti Grönfors
Vantaa, Finland

P.S. If your emperor would miss his chance for the armageddon, 4 more years of his foreing and economical policies would do pretty much the same, only more painfully.

P.P.S. I'l try to include my "Hello!" photo. It certainly isn't the most representative picture of me, but little smile never hurt anyone.

[coeur_de_lion]

39. I loved your post. Loved it. Hello and welcome.

Delighted to have you join our little crusade, and delighted to have you join DU.

:bounce:

Great picture!

[kohodog]

43. Welcome Martti!

A bunch of us here believe that the other super power is the people of the world. Those of us (Americans) who are fighting for peace and justice and human rights for all welcome your contribution to the effort and your insight. I was living in Canada when Nixon resigned and will never forget how different the perception was in Canada during those years. So your thoughts can add greatly to our discussions.

[burrowowl]

53. Welcome to DU, Martti!

Yes, our little rock is in the balance. Many all over the world realize this and I wish more of the American population realized this.

Again, WELCOME! :hi: :toast:

[AgadorSparticus]

61. welcome aboard Martti! Any and all letters are appreciated. nt

[merh]

70. Welcome to DU Martti!

Please join us in our snail mail campaigns - the more voices, the louder the message, the louder the message, the harder it is to ignore!

Welcome to our quaint little forum :hi:

Love your post - what a happy image!

[TheCentepedeShoes]

72. Yes, it is addictive

(hey, what happened to my job? - it was here a minute ago :evilgrin: ) But it's a positive addiction. Welcome!!:hi:

[Tight_rope]

99. Welcome to DU Martti!

It brings cries to my eyes to know that others outside of the US are joining us in our farce crusade to remove our tyrant leader from his abusive power. How ironic that "WE" the US have help many other countries (of course not without financial benefit) do the same and now it's us who need the help. And let me add that those who support us have nothing to gain financially. Just a "PEACE OF MIND"...which is "PRICELESS"! :pals:

[immoderate]

100. I love that picture!

So glad that you have joined DU. I got a great feeling of warmth from your post.

:grouphug:

--IMM

[henslee]

117. It's funny... I was trying to explain to a pack of disenchanted Aussies

that while there are a lot of assholes here, there are also a large concentration of "good eggs". You just don't hear about them thanks to Murdoch and the media filter and fear posse. On a more terrifying note... lets talk about your hair.

[wrate]

40. From everything I've read it would seem as if though Karl Rove does not

want Chenney in the ticket anymore. If you watch TV only, it looks as if the Repug ticket is Bush/Mccain! Not to mention the rumors a few moths ago about Chenney not running again. And what about the freedom for all comment by Chenney, I cannot believe that was a slip of the tongue, Tricky Dick does not make that kind of mistakes. Maybe Rove knows that only an indictment will rid him of Tricky Dick.

[H2O Man]

42. it's interesting.

the "neocon civil war" article I linked seems to indicate a serious division within their ranks. Cheney would not say anything in a high profile situation without being fully aware of its consequences. I dislike everything about him, but recognize the VP is intelligent and capable.

Yet we still have plenty of reason to be suspicious. Are they trying to create a distraction? We'll do well to keep an eye on it.

[AgadorSparticus]

59. What interesting developments!!!! wow.....

I didn't make the connection with Cheney's gay comment but I have been wondering how a big hitter like Libby Scooter was going to take one for the team. It just doesn't jive with me that he would be so willing. Fitzgerald must be doing something right.

As for the Plame indictments, maybe someone can explain the procedure for me but I thought that they would indict the journalists or low level players in the first round--making it right on time with the election. But after Kerry gets sworn in, they will proceed with the heavy hitters in the second round thus eliminating any possibility of pardons. Or do they have to do it all at once?

[lanparty]

79. BULLSHIT!!!!

There is no civil war. There is command in the ranks of the neocon and BUSH is in command.

The "civil war" story is just a cover to make the "fall guy"'s story more believable. It is to distract from the OBVIOUS which is that whoever is fingered will be taking the rap for Dick Cheney (who ordered the deed in the first place).

[Tight_rope]

101. Welcome to DU wrate!

[kohodog]

41. Check out the new "DU Local Media Blaster" on DU Home page

It will be a great tool in opur Media campaign. Besides email addresses there are links to the websites which would be useful for snail mail if you prefer.

Great idea by Skinner et al.

[MGKrebs]

45. Links

Most blogs, you don't have to join or anything, You just have to give a valid email address if you post a comment. (I know most everyone here knows this, but it would be remiss to leave out those who might not.) You won't be able to start a story, but you can add comments to the stories posted by the bloggers. Bookmark the pages of your favorite blogs, keep your eyes open for related stories, and 'throw another log on the fire'.

Calpundit is now here: http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/

Alterman: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/3449870/

Kos (gotta sign up): http://www.dailykos.com/

Buzzflash: http://www.buzzflash.com/ (I think you have to send an email here, just like a LTTE).

digby: http://digbysblog.blogspot.com/

http://www.blogforamerica.com/

That's just a few of the ;'biggies'. Most of these have many, many more links from each of their own sites. I'll cover this one; www.blogfordemocracy.org :-)

There are over 5000 yahoo groups under 'politics'. May I suggest finding a couple of active ones and join up. http://dir.groups.yahoo.com/dir/Government___Politics/Politics?show_groups=1

I would also guess that the object isn't necessarily to convinve anyone that our information is correct (at least not yet). Just as important is to 'saturate' the discussion to get others wondering why this story lingers. Then the facts start getting scrutinzed (hopefully).

[DrBB]

46. So Scooter goes down. Then what?

I expect the explosive reaction to that, in the public at large, will be "Scooter? That's kind of a funny nickname, idn't it? What's on ESPN?"

I don't think this is going to be good for the Reptilians, but it looks to me like Scooter is the guy in the cross-hairs and I don't see that prosecution as having more than an incremental effect against the Chimp himself. If it were Rove, that would be another story, but I don't see it going that direction.

[H2O Man]

48. Fair question.

Here's one possibility: "In his signature staccato, Matthews was blunt: 'I just got off the phone with Karl Rove. He says, and I quote,"Wilson's wife is fair game." ' Before abruptley hanging up, Matthews added: 'I will confirm that if asked.' " That comes from page one of Wilson's book.

More: "Apparently, according to two journalist sources of mine, when Rove learned that he might have violated the law, he turned on Cheney and Libby and made it clear that he held them responsible for the problem they had created for the administration. The protracted silence on this topic from the White House masks considerable tension between the Office of the President and the Office of the Vice President." This from page 444 of Wilson's book.

I think that Fitzgerald is very aware of Rove's role in this. And I think it's worth our trying to get the subject discussed in the mainstream media. The American public is capable of digesting this information, and determining what influence it should have on the election. I'd be happy if more people simply read the paragraphs quoted from above.

We hope that you will consider investing a few minutes per week to help us with this. We'll write a few letters about Rove specifically.

[kohodog]

51. Interesting that Rove has barely been mentioned.

Wilson's quote about Rove being frog marched made news way back when, and since then it's been The VP's office has been the target.

But since Rove is equally (more) connected with Bush and it stands to reason if he goes down, Bush has all the greater reason to have an attorney.

My guess is that Rove is trying to place the Plameblame on Cheney/Libby and keep it as far away as possible from Bush/Rove.

So can we tag this treason on Bush/Rove and frog march them both?

BTW, is there any implication of firecrackers in the exprossion "frog march?" Is that why Wilson used that expression??

[H2O Man]

54. A couple things:

Whenever an investigation has this large a scope, they start at the lowest level. They interview a few people. Catch one lying. Inform them about the penalties for lying to a federal investigator, and suggest they consult a private attorney. Any private attorney will say "make a deal fast." Then they go to level two.

Right now, everyone is saying John Hannah rolled. But it is not likely he is the only one. We know for sure that Karl Rove shit his pants when he found out he may have committed a federal offense. (I quoted two segments on Rove and Matthews a few posts back.)

It's not possible that Rove hasn't been grilled. He can't play the tough guy, pleading the 5th. Matthews said he'd go on the record. Rove HAS to talk. And that's why no information on Rove is being released.

Think about the level of confidentiality that has been adhered to up until this point. There's a reason that some information is being reported now.

[kohodog]

49. Scooter wouldn't tell reporters to sing

if he was complicit, unless he is the one who turned. He is either a) in the clear, b) thinks he's in the clear, or c) has turned and is exposing the bads.

I wonder if he thinks he can get away with it again and is a little too smug.

hey scooter, pick up the soap

[lanparty]

80. Or he could be ...

... The Fall Guy.

[H2O Man]

50. Letter #1

Time magazine ran the Joe Klein article that noted that Plame was involved in a sting operation involving the sale of WMD components when she was exposed by the White House. And their employee, Matt Cooper, was involved in the grand jury media "conflict" regarding testifying. So let's start there. Remember, our goal isn't to score a debator's point, it's to get the subject examined.

e-mail: [e-mail]

fax: [phone]

snail-mail: Time Magazine Letters
Time & Life Bldg
Rockefeller Center
New York, NY 10020


Dear Time:
I am writing to request that you run a feature article on the Plame grand jury investigation. In the past two weeks, numerous newspapers have run stories about the 1st amendment implications of the case. After your reporter Matt Cooper met with the grand jury, the internet has had reports that significant progress has been made in identifying the White House officials who exposed Plame's identity. This controversy involves numerous administration officials in a serious scandal. I think a feature article would be of benefit to your readers.
Sincerely,


There's one idea. It's not ranting and raving. It's not calling anyone any names. And it urges them to report on the case. Are people willing to try this?

[coeur_de_lion]

52. I'm in

[kohodog]

55. Another possible letter

Dear ______

Recently there has been information circulating about the grand jury investigation regarding the outing of the CIA agent Valerie Plame. Time magazine's reporter Matt Cooper met with the grand jury despite the 1st ammendment implications and it is possible indictments are coming soon.

I hope you will consider a feature article on the Plame investigation that looks at the criminal implications for senior Whitehouse officials as well as the 1st ammendment issues that have recently come up.

Sincerely,

kohodog

Member, Plameblame vets for frog marching

[H2O Man]

56. I like it!

And think that a wider variety of letters, saying similar things, is the best approach.

[Beam Me Up]

65. I'm a TIME subscriber

I'll gladly write a snail mail letter, fax and email. Can't get to it before Friday, though. But I'm definitely 'in'.

[H2O Man]

67. My wife subscribes to TIME, also .....

I think it is a good place to start.

[H2O Man]

63. News ......

both from news at google (Plame)....

1- The Mark of Rove, by Noy Thrupkaew, reviews the new documentary film "Bush's Brain," by Shoob & Mealey. See:

http://www.alternet.org/movies/19661/


2- Myrtle Beach News editorial by Ed Wasserman, who is hostile towards the grand jury process. See:

http://www.myrtlebeachonline.com/mld/sunnews/news/opinion/9498961.htm

[Zan_of_Texas]

121. Bush's Brain

I saw this movie this week. I recommend it. You still don't learn about a personal side of Rove -- perhaps there is none. But, you do get a real multi-faceted sense of how Rove plays -- he plays to win. "He will do ANYthing to win an election," various people say, who worked with him or against him.

[merh]

64. How to file a Texas Bar complaint against O'neill ........

A new DUer posted this as a reply - I think it should have its own thread:

JLFinch (18 posts) Thu Aug-26-04 08:19 AM
Response to Original message

1. Stop John O'Neill and force accountability upon him - this is how...
John E. O'Neill
CLEMENTS O'NEILL PIERCE WILSON ET AL
1000 LOUISIANA ST STE 1800
HOUSTON, TX, 77002
phone [phone]

Bar Card Number: 1529750

John E. O'Neill, author of Unfit for Command, is an attorney licensed and practicing in Texas. Rumor has it he thinks he will be appointed a federal judge...let's not let that happen.

According to the Texas Disciplinary Rules of Professional Conduct:

Rule 8.02 Judicial and Legal Officials (a) A lawyer shall not make a statement that the lawyer knows to be false or with reckless disregard as to its truth or falsity concerning the *qualifications or integrity* of a judge, adjudicatory official or public legal officer, or of a *candidate for election* or appointment to judicial or legal office.

Rule 8.04 Misconduct (a) A lawyer shall not: (3) engage in conduct involving dishonesty, fraud, deceit or misrepresentation;

The State Bar can sanction him, suspend his license or even DISBAR him.

PLEASE WRITE, FAX, FED EX THE TEXAS STATE BAR TO COMPLAIN ABOUT THESE VIOLATIONS - including specific examples would be best:

P.O. Box 12487
Austin, Texas 78711

1414 Colorado St.
Austin, TX 78701

Fax: [phone]

Telephone Numbers --- but writing is better

Toll Free: [phone]
Local: [phone]


FEEL FREE TO POST THIS EVERYWHERE AND E-MAIL IT EVERWHERE

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=671587&mesg_id=671601

[H2O Man]

66. This is very important.

This ranks as one of the most important letters we can all send. I really appreciate that merh posted it for us!

[nomatrix]

68. Check with Iraqwatch

http://www.house.gov/abercrombie/fa.iraqwatch.october.htm
This was 2003

Rep. John Conyers (D)Mich.
"Mr. Speaker, I will finish the letter that I sent to Karl Rove calling for his resignation.
``Recent reports indicate that you told the journalist, Chris Matthews, and perhaps others, that Mr. Wilson's wife and her undercover status were `fair game.' Evan Thomas and Michael Isikoff, Newsweek Magazine, October 13, 2003. Since these initial allegations have arisen, neither the White House nor your office have denied your involvement in furthering the leak. Repeated press inquiries into this matter have been rebuffed with technical jargon and narrow legalisms, instead of referring to the broader ethical issues. Indeed, in the same article, it appears a White House source acknowledged that you contacted Mr. Matthews and other journalists, indicating that `it was reasonable to discuss who sent Mr. Wilson to the African country of Niger.'
``It should be noted that these actions may well have violated 18 U.S.C. section 793, which prohibits the willful or grossly negligent distribution of national defense information that could possibly be used against the United States. The law states that even if you lawfully knew of Mr. Wilson's wife's status, you were obliged to come forward and report the press leak to the proper authorities, not inflame the situation by encouraging further dissemination.''
Another section of the law, 18 U.S.C. section 793(f) is used for the basis of that remark.
``Larger than whether any one statute can be read to find criminal responsibility is the issue of whether officials of your stature will be allowed to use their influence to intimidate whistleblowers.
``Over three decades ago, our great Nation was scarred by an administration that would stop at nothing to smear and intimidate its critics. I do not believe the Nation will countenance a repeat of such activities. For your role in this campaign, I would ask that you resign immediately.''

[H2O Man]

81. Political communications 101

"You can never really get your point across to a person until you learn how to communicate with him. If he speaks French, you can't speak German. You have to know what language he speaks, and then speak to him in that language." --Malcolm X ; 12-20-64


{A} Malcolm delivered those classic lines while sharing a Harlem stage with Mrs. Fannie Lou Hamer 40 years ago. Ms. Hammer was the leading voice of the Mississippi Freedom Democratic Party. She was also a restless voice for grass-roots democratic action in America. The thought of Malcolm and Ms. Hamer on stage together in 1964 gives many of us older DUers reason to stop and ponder the options our nation had in that eventful year.

I spent the lunch hour today, talking with the work crew that is putting a new roof on my house. Three of the men are about 50, and three are 20 years old. Our discussion involved a comparison of Vietnam and Iraq, and of Bush and Nixon. We all shared the same general values, and thus have similar concerns, about the increasing tensions in the Middle East.

More, we all worry about the terrible affect that this administration has had on the quality of life in our local communities, and in the country. The head of the work crew is a dedicated democratic grass-roots activist. And he said that almost all of the elderly people he is in contact with say that George Bush is the most criminal president in our nation's history.

Thus, this group of people, although having a wide range in ages, all shares the same basic community values. You can be 20, 50, or 80 and want the same things for your community. It's easy to communicate these values with people who share them.


{B}

I took part in a few discussions on DU today. Generally, we tend to all share the same values on here. We have similar concerns. And so usually conversations go well. However, on one that I was particularly interested in, I saw something in the way that messages are at times communicated that concerned me. Not that I thought there was a "freeper," or any big disagreement. But an issue involving miscommunications.

Merh requested DUers to drop a note calling for some sanctions on Swift Boat Liar John O'Neil. At first, one friend was unclear what merh meant. And once he did, he responded that it was likely a waste of time, because the "authorities" would probably not pay attention to our concerns. I understand his frustrations. It is no fun to work hard, to tell the truth, and to be ignored. And it happens. It happens more, in fact, with Bush as president than it has happened at any other time in history. We're all experiencing some of that frustration that Fannie Lou Hamer knew first-hand.

We need to talk. We need to have open communication, right here on DU, for a couple of reasons. Remember this: if we talk to the authorities, or our elected officials, or some bureaucrat in an office in the state capital, and we tell them the truth, we've been responsible. We've done our part. What they do with that information is their responsibility. And we may need to remind each other of that from time to time. Still, even if they are lazy, or liars, or criminals -- or any combination of the three -- we need to do our part.

For if we don't do our part, we run the very real risk of becoming bumps on a log, pointing our fingers, and blaming others for being irresponsible, and all the while ignoring our own responsibilities. And when that happens, you had better believe the elected officials and bureaucrats the laziest, lying criminals.

Democracy is how we behave. It's what we do in our own homes and communities. It's not something any politician can give you. But it is something many politicians want to deny you. John Kerry isn't going to get on tv as president, and make life a democratic paradise for you and I. But George Bush can sure make our lives hell on earth if you don't learn the true meaning of democracy.


{C}

DU allows us to have frank and open discussions. We can talk about complex issues ranging from 9-11 to the Plame case, and have as many different opinions as there are participants. And as long as our language is respectful, and the truth is our tongue, we can all learn from each other. Just like those 20 year olds, and 50 year olds, and 80 year olds I mentioned earlier. We can talk shop like an extended family.

But the need of the day is that we bring this message further. We have to bring some important issues to the table in this country. We know that the politicians either can't or won't. The bureaucrats couldn't if they wanted to. And the main stream media seems unwilling to say some of the things we know need to be said about Iraq, about Plame, about the economy, and jobs, health care, and over-time. We need to put issues like respect for people of all ethnc and religious backgrounds and sexual orientation on the table, before people become so frustrated that they kick the legs out from under that table, to borrow a line from 1965.

We need to communicate with some of the mainstream medias. And that can be difficult and frustrating ..... or it can be a lot of fun. We need to realize that if we speak in the same way we do on DU, most mainstream medias will ignore us. They won't understand what we're saying. They'll sooner publish their papers in French, or have their reporters speak in Chinese, than report or publish things from the far-left. In fact, Sean Hannity is much more likely to use a good DU clip .... and lie and distort it for his own use, of course.

We need to learn how to translate our message as accurately into something that could be printed in a TIME or similar magazine. And to encourage more discussion on their forums. That's why the letters presented on this thread last night are basic, almost "plain label" letters. We'll have plenty of opportunity for more outspoken and radical messages soon enough. We can have a lot of fun with this, and get results.

Thank you for your consideration, and I hope more people will continue to join us in our efforts.

[Beam Me Up]

82. Thank you, H20 Man.

I appreciate very much what you are saying here. I'd like to see this have its own thread. I'm not sure everyone here will appreciate what you've written as much as I do but that doesn't matter to me.

I'll be the first to admit that I have a lot to learn about communicating with politicians effectively. I've been letting them know for quite some time now that I'm very frustrated with this country and why. I can't see that it has done a lot of good, although I wouldn't go so far as to say it hasn't done any good.

[H2O Man]

89. Oh, it's done good ....

but we can always learn ways to do more good. I'm glad that you appreciated what I had to say. And I'm going to do another little article tonight on proper communications to get desired results. This is kind of fun, when there is some "give and take" and discussion on the thread. Thank you.

[AgadorSparticus]

83. are you suggesting we use more diplomacy in our letters?

more neutral language? i can do that too. it will just be harder for me as i write best when i am a little hot under the collar.

but i can see your point. i'll have to control my temper a bit next time and see how it goes.....

[TacticalPeek]

85. Any fish bite, if you've got good bait.

:)

[H2O Man]

90. I don't necessarily mean anyone on here now ....

but more as a general rule. There are times when "hot under the collar" is perfect.

Always keep in mind the three groups: {a} those who always support you; {b} those who always oppose you; and {c} the undecided.

You need to be able to tailor your style of communication for each of the three. With "a" you can be informal, relaxed, and can insult your common enemy with disgusting humor. You won't offend anyone by calling the Bush administration names on DU, for example. Your goal should generally be to make people think more about 1 to 3 points you make.

With group "b" you need to be formal, focused, and not allow yourself to make errors. A debate poses different challenges than an editorial, obviously: you need to be able to respond to a provocation fast. In this type of communication, you have to anticipate your enemy's strong points, and smash them.

Group "c" requires a rational, logical approach. Your goal should be to get the target audience to see one point differently than they did before, and plant a seed that they will nurture. You do not need to convince them: instead, let them know that you trust them to examine issues and decide for themselves.

In all three instances, we should remember the old saying that we want to show people how to think, not what to think. The republicans always resort to telling people what to think. A good debater can always destroy them on this. Think about the best communicators, and you'll see this is true. Mario Cuomo. Jesse Jackson. Or there's a great democratic strategist, Tad Devine, who I rank as extremely impressive.

[coeur_de_lion]

86. The right wing controls the media so effectively because they make

their message palatable to the general public. We are all so angry about what is happening to our country, so distraught about the corruption. That can and probably has made us sound like so many angry bees buzzing around controversial issues.

H2O is right -- we need to construct a message that is non-threatening, calm and fairly neutral so people will listen with an unbiased ear.

H2O, besides Time magazine, which other publications would you recommend that we write to? I plan on a blitz of letters this weekend but I don't want to limit myself to one mainstream media source. If you tell me what other publications you think might be useful I'll publish their snail and email addresses on the thread tonight so people can write to them.

[loudsue]

84. Good points being discussed here....

That's why it needs a big "kick" .... to keep it in front of all of those people who might take a moment to bring accountability to the places that need it most!!

:kick::kick::kick::kick:

[H2O Man]

87. Here's a good article!

The "Our View" editorial in the Augusta Free Press addresses the issues involvedin the Plame investigation.

"And while all crime is bad, this one is particularly egregious -- the leak apparently was political payback .....

"For the political point scored by Novak and whoever it was that leaked the information about Plame's identity to him, her life was put at risk, as were the lives of countless others....

"And the media wants to make this into some sort of test case demonstrating the need for shield laws?

"Sorry. We're no more immune from scrutiny than the government entities for which we serve as watchdogs."

http://www.augustafreepress.com/stories/storyReader$25491

The article invites comments from readers at:

[e-mail]

[coeur_de_lion]

88. Diplomat-author claims 'smear campaign'

http://tinyurl.com/68zae

<<snip>>
By MICHELE DARGAN, Daily News Staff Writer
Thursday, Aug. 26, 2004 — After more than 10 years of diplomatic service in African countries, Ambassador Joseph Wilson received a call asking if he would like to be assigned to Baghdad. "I told them, 'Paris is my first choice' and they said, 'Paris isn't in the cards,' '' Wilson said. "As they often said to someone as dumb as me, 'We think this would be a great career move.' "It took me 15 years to finally realize that what they meant was that they couldn't get any other sucker to take the job."

Wilson, whose wife's identity as a CIA agent was exposed by a newspaper columnist last year, was the opening speaker at the 28th season of the Forum Club of the Palm Beaches Tuesday at the Kravis Center's Cohen Pavilion. Wilson also spoke to the Palm Beach Democrats Monday night in Manalapan.

Forum Club President Bill Bone introduced Wilson as the person "at the center of a Washington firestorm." The author of The Politics of Truth ($26, Carroll & Graf Publishers), Wilson details his 22-plus years in diplomatic service.

In the book, Wilson, 54, alleges that senior White House officials were responsible for ÒoutingÓ his wife, Valerie Plame, as a CIA agent and points the finger at Vice President Dick Cheney's chief-of-staff I. Lewis "Scooter" Libby and national security aide Elliot Abrams. Wilson says the revelation about Plame, in a July 14, 2003, column by Robert Novak, was retaliation for an op-ed piece Wilson had written for The New York Times a week earlier, refuting President George W. Bush's claim that the African nation of Niger supplied uranium to Iraq.
<<snip>>

[Tight_rope]

92. Count me in...

[coeur_de_lion]

93. I like your quote, Tight-rope. I have it up on my office wall! n/t

[H2O Man]

94. A Great Article!

"Hey Big Media, Connect the Dots ..." by Don Williams is interesting:

http://www.commondreams.org/views04/0827-09.htm

(found at news at google -- Plame)

[TacticalPeek]

97. Stranger and stranger . . .

Maybe the Pentagon spy is involved with aspects of Plame?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x681084

Ex-CIA Larry Johnson and Pat Buchanan were both hinting around about bigger things behind the scenery.


:evilgrin:

[H2O Man]

102. Yes.....

odd the president hinted that there were some errors involved in the Iraq invasion. Strange days, indeed.

[H2O Man]

103. Great conversation on

Will Pitt's thread on the spy scandal on GD .... this connects to our Plame Threads ..... this has to do with Cheney's need to expose Plame.

[MGKrebs]

104. Links to current stories:

This one could use some suppport:

http://www.insidebayarea.com/oped/ci_2393418

"If this leak did come from high in this administration, here's a path far less damaging to the public's interest than threatening to jail reporters: Ask the White House why it's not unveiling this illegal leaker on its own."

This one might need a little resistance;

http://www.pdnonline.com/photodistrictnews/headlines/article_display.jsp?vnu_content_id=1000619965

"The Reporters Committee for Freedom of the Press (RCFP)... is asking photographers to help gather thousands of signatures on a statement in support of more than half-a-dozen reporters who currently face the threat of heavy fines or jail time for refusing to reveal confidential sources. Reporters from Time, The Washington Post and The New York Times are among those currently under subpoena to reveal news sources they have promised to keep confidential. The cases involve the leaking of the name of covert CIA operative Valerie Plame as well the Wen Ho Lee privacy case. (For more information on those cases, visit www.rcfp.org/standup/subpoenas.html).

The debate over whether journalists should be allowed to keep sources confidential is not cut-and-dried however, and some media analysts think journalists should not be exempt from testifying before a grand jury if issues of national security are at stake."

[H2O Man]

105. valuable information....

thanks!

[MGKrebs]

118. Letter to pdnonline.

(Not fishing for kudos, just trying to keep the pot stirred).

Free The Press?
Journalists protecting sources is one thing, but The Reporters Committee for Freedom of the Press (RCFP) wants to protect the driver of the getaway car from identifying his passengers.

If a reporter knowingly participates in a criminal activity, especially one with such serious consequences as national security, it must be hard to make the case that the reporter is then exempt from prosecution because, well, since they should not be made to reveal who asked them to perform the illegal activity, they can't be responsible for actually participating in that activity.

JT
Atlanta, Georgia

[kohodog]

109. Lots breaking today on other threads

Iran spy case breaking news:

The FBI is investigating a mid-level Pentagon official who specializes in Iranian affairs for allegedly passing classified information to Israel, and arrests in the case could come as early as next week, officials at the Pentagon and other government agencies said last night.

The name of the person under investigation was not officially released, but two sources identified him as Larry Franklin. He was described as a desk officer in the Pentagon's Near East and South Asia Bureau, one of six regional policy sections. Franklin worked at the Defense Intelligence Agency before moving to the Pentagon's policy branch three years ago and is nearing retirement, the officials said. Franklin could not be located for comment last night.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn/A40004-2004Aug...

Franklin was OSP...hmmmm


Also, Powell canceled his trip to Athens, because of "press of business"

http://www.reuters.co.uk/newsPackageArticle.jhtml?type=...

And check out this thread on LBN;

MSNBC: Spy investigation began with the yellowcake memo...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=102&topic_id=782637&mesg_id=782637

I'm getting ready for NYC tomorrow, but it looks like there will be lots to check out this weekend for the DU think tankers! Somehow I think all of this has relevance to Plame.

[kohodog]

110. More from cbs on the breaking spy case

Snip

CBS sources say that last year the suspected spy, described as a trusted analyst at the Pentagon, turned over a presidential directive on U.S. policy toward Iran while it was, "in the draft phase when U.S. policy-makers were still debating the policy."

This put the Israelis, according to one source, "inside the decision-making loop" so they could "try to influence the outcome."

The case raises another concern among investigators: Did Israel also use the analyst to try to influence U.S. policy on the war in Iraq?

With ties to top Pentagon officials Paul Wolfowitz and Douglas Feith, the analyst was assigned to a unit within the Defense Department tasked with helping develop the Pentagon's Iraq policy.

Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld has been made aware of the case. The government notified AIPAC today that it wants information about the two employees and their contacts with a person at the Pentagon.


http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2004/08/27/eveningnews/main639143.shtml


This story is everywhere this morning. This may have huge ramifications in November if it gets legs.

[H2O Man]

111. Yes, it does.

We're getting to the point where we may very soon see the constitutional crisis that results from the Plame case. A couple of thoughts: don't accept the official version of the story on face value -- not that any DUers would -- but this fellow is being sacrificed now. I think that Pat Buchanan was correct in saying that some high ranking officials are trying to derail the investigation here by leaking information -- sounds familiar -- because this is huge. We're beginning to see more of why the group met in VP Cheney's office on March 8, 2003 .... the day that a State Dept spokesperson told reporters, "We fell for it," regarding the forged yellow cake documents, and Wilson told CNN there was more information on the forged documents .... and that emergency meeting was held to determine how to damage Wilson and any investigation into the forged document.

As fascinating as this is, it is potentially damaging to our constitutional democracy. We have a group who had set-up an unelected government within the government, and was coordinating efforts to decide international policy in coordination with an Israeli front group. They'll blame it on this one fellow to the extent possible.

[kohodog]

112. That's why we need to shed the light on this.

More letters! The various DU threads have connected more dots and put this whole thing in better perspective that anywhere else that I've seen. We need to get the info out and keep up the heat.

William Pitt's thread on the consolidated Spy Data is excellent. Now to tie it all together. All roads point to Cheney!

[H2O Man]

113. yes, it is!

both threads #1 and 2 are great. After I wake up, I'm going to add a few thoughts to that thread. We should keep this going, also.

[coeur_de_lion]

114. Links to William Pitt's Consolidated spy threads

Thread 1
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=104&topic_id=2272624&mesg_id=2272624


Thead 2
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=2273474

[coeur_de_lion]

115. The Waterman Paper

The Waterman Paper July 24, 2004
By H2O Man


This paper examines the possibility that Vice President Dick Cheney orchestrated the "leaking" of CIA operative Valerie Plame's identity to the news media in the summer of 2003, in order to accomplish three goals.

These include (1) to punish Joseph Wilson for challenging "16 words" in President Bush's 1-28-03 State of the Union address; and (2) to intimidate other sources from publicly challenging the White House's version of events involving the "war on terrorism" and the US invasion of Iraq. Both of these goals are well-known from numerous reports on this White House scandal.

The other, (3) is that VP Cheney was attempting to derail an investigation that Plame may have been involved in at the time that her identity was exposed. This third potential goal has not been the subject of any major media attention.
The author of this paper put it forward on an internet forum, the Democratic Underground, in early July, 2004. The resulting eleven DU "threads," which consist of over 3,000 posts from interested citizens across the country, is the only known forum debating this theory.

Besides the eleven DU "Plame Indictment" threads, the information in this paper comes from the following four sources: The Politics of Truth, by Joseph Wilson; Worse Than Watergate, by John Dean; Don't Tread on Joseph Wilson, NYT book review by John Dean on 5-23-04; and Plenty to Swear About, by Joe Klein, Time, 7-5-04.

Time Line

While the case involving Wilson's investigation in Niger, and the White House's efforts to expose Plame is long and complicated, this paper will focus on a "time line" established by Wilson in his book.

1. Jan '02: The first reports of a Niger-Iraq uranium connection surface in the White House.

2. Feb '02: Wilson is asked to investigate by the CIA.

3. March '02: Wilson returns from Niger and briefs the CIA on the investigation. His conclusion supports those of two others that there was no Niger-Iraq connection.

4. Jan '03: Bush includes the "16 words" in his State of the Union address.

5. On or about March 5, '03: the CIA gives VP Cheney an oral report, informing him of Wilson's conclusions.

6. March 7, '03: the IAEA announces the US's documents on Niger-Iraq are forgeries.

7. March 8, '03: (a) a State Department spokesperson admits, "We fell for it" in regard to the forged document; (b) Wilson tells CNN that the State Department has more information on the subject; and (c) a workshop meeting is held in VP Cheney's office. It is attended by top republican officials, possibly including Cheney, Scooter Libby, and Newt Gingrich. The group discusses ways to discredit Wilson.

8. June 8, '03: Condoleeza Rice denies knowledge of the weakness of the Niger uranium claim on Meet The Press. She states, "Maybe someone down in the bowels of the Agency knew about this, but nobody in my circles."

9. July 6, '03: Wilson's NYT op-ed is published. By the following day, two senior White House officials began contacting at least six reporters, informing them of Valerie Plame's identity as a CIA operative.

10. July 8, '03: Reporter Robert Novak tells a complete stranger on a Washington street: "Wilson's an asshole. The CIA sent him. His wife, Valerie, works for the CIA. She's a weapons of mass destruction specialist. She sent him." In the following days, Novak would ask the CIA for confirmation of Plame's identity. He was asked not to print her name or identity in any article regarding Wilson.

11. July 14, '03: Novak's article exposes Plame.

12. July 20, '03: NBC's Andrea Mitchell tells Wilson that senior White House officials told her that the "real story" was not the 16 words, but was Wilson and his wife.

13. July 21, '03: NBC's Chris Matthews tells Wilson that Karl Rove called him and said," Wilson's wife is fair game." Matthews said he would confirm that if asked.

This time line indicates that while the exposing of Plame's identity was a result of Wilson's op-ed, it was also part of a larger strategy that had been planned in VP Cheney's office since March 8. It clearly confirms goal #1: by exposing Plame, and putting her safety at risk, the White House had severely punished Joseph Wilson.
It also supports goal #2: the White House had a strategy to intimidate any other potential intelligence operatives from exposing the administration for distorting information regarding Iraq.

Likewise, the exposing of Plame supports goal #3: exposing Plame put an immediate end to any activities that Plame was participating in at the time. This is supported by Wilson (pg 345): "She immediately began to prepare a checklist of things she needed to do to minimize the fall-out to the projects she was working on."

Also, Wilson notes: "Compromising the officer means compromising a career, a network, and every person with who the officer might have ever worked. Slips of the tongue cost people their lives." (pg 13)

The Leakers' Identities

Robert Novak sourced his story to two senior White House officials. Other reporters, including Andrea Mitchell, made mention of the two unidentified senior White House officials. These two are among the at least six reporters contacted by these two officials.
Chris Matthew's call identifies Karl Rove as being involved in the efforts to make "Wilson's wife ... fair game." This call took place after the calls from the senior officials to the six reporters.
Wilson's book indicates a belief that the two senior officials were Lewis "Scooter" Libby and Eliot Abrams. Abrams is no stranger to White House disgrace, having been convicted on two charges during the Iran-Contra scandal.

There is evidence the three were operating with the knowledge of, and perhaps under the direction of VP Cheney. The March 8 "workshop" in VP Cheney's office indicates that this was a long-standing, well-organized effort to discredit Wilson. As Wilson notes (pg 387) : "... a plan to attack me had been formed before the moment. It was cocked and ready to fire .... an organized smear campaign directed from the highest reaches of the White House."

Cheney and Pre-War Intelligence

Those involved in the "workshop" to discredit Wilson were also active in efforts to influence pre-war intelligence reports. On page 6, Wilson discusses "leaks" that Cheney, Libby, and Newt Gingrich pressured the intelligence community "to skew intelligence analysis" to fit their own needs.

On page 338, Wilson notes that these three reportedly intimidated analysts by implying, "if you do a 'Wilson' on us, we will do worse to you."

Wilson notes (pg 434) that VP Cheney runs a "parallel national security office," which has no congressional oversight, and hence can "circumvent long-standing and accepted reporting structures and to skew decision-making practices."

As a result, as reported by Joe Klein in Time (7-5-04) "the intelligence community is at war with the White House." Klein notes that "multiple intelligence sources" indicated to him their belief that Cheney strong-armed out-going CIA Director George Tenet, to make him support Cheney and Rumsfeld's positions on Iraq.

Cheney, Niger, and Wilson's Trip

Wilson notes a report on a possible Niger-Iraq yellow cake uranium transaction had "aroused the interests of Vice President Dick Cheney." (pg 14) Cheney's office "had tasked the CIA to determine if there was any truth to the report." (pg 14)

It is clear that Cheney was aware of the Niger report, and had directed his office to have the CIA do an investigation of it. There is evidence that on March 5, the CIA gave VP Cheney an oral report on Wilson's findings. This was three days before the State Department spokesperson told the media, "We fell for it," and that Wilson told CNN that the State Department had more information on that subject. March 8 was also the day that the "workshop" to discredit Wilson was held in Cheney's office.

"What I Didn't Find" vs. "16 Words"

The White House retracted President Bush's infamous 16 words immediately after Wilson's op-ed appeared in the New York Times.
On 7-13-03, Condi Rice told Fox News Sunday that, "It is ludicrous to suggest that the president of the United States went to war on the question of whether Saddam Hussein sought uranium from Africa."
On 7-14-03, Robert Novak exposed Valerie Plame's identity. It is important to recognize that Novak was aware that Plame was an operative who specialized in WMDs, and that he had been asked by the CIA not to reveal her identity, or even print her name, in an article on Wilson.

The White House continued to engage in efforts to discredit Wilson, including sending three identical e-mails of "talking points" to Keith Olbermann when Wilson was appearing on MSNBC's Countdown.
1982 Intelligence Identity Protection Act

Wilson notes that the administration had already acknowledged the Niger-Iraq link was unsubstantiated, and that logically, they should have focused attention on how the 16 words made their way into the president's State of the Union address. The effort to expose Plame's identity made little sense. (pg 7)

Later, he continues with, "The White House gained nothing by publicizing Valerie's name..." (pg 7)
"Then it struck me that the attack by Rove and the administration on my wife had little to do with her, but a lot to do with others who might be tempted to speak out." (pgs 5-6)
"The decision of the president's people to come after me .... arose from no concerns over the emergence of secrets from my mission -- there weren't any." (pg 339)
"However offensive, there was a certain logic to it. If you have something to hide, one way to keep it secret is to threaten anyone who might expose it. But it was too late to silence me." (pg 338)


Goal #3: Why Cheney Exposed Plame

Wilson notes that Sandy Berger, President Clinton's national security advisor, pointed out that since the Bush people had never backed down before, the fact that they had been "so quick to admit their error this time meant they must have something more important to protect." (pg 4)

In Worse Than Watergate, John Dean calls the exposing of Plame the "Dirtiest of Dirty Tricks." He writes that "revealing her identity damaged the national security and her career, and resulted in the loss of a valuable government asset." He called this action "literally life-threatening." (pgs 170-171)

What could have possibly been so important to VP Cheney that he oversaw the violating of the 1982 IIPA, and risked a White House scandal? The answer clearly can not be found in goals #1 or #2.
The answer, which supports goal #3, appears in Klein's article: "Furthermore, there is intense anger over the White House's revealing the identity of Plame, who may have been active in a sting operation involving the trafficking of WMD components. ..... 'Only a very high-ranking official could have had access to the knowledge that Plame was on the payroll' of the CIA, an intelligence source told me."

And that very high-ranking official may have known through his parallel national security office about the activities that Plame was involved with at that time. The answer to goal #3 likely is to be found in the checklist of things Valerie Plame did to mitigate the damage done by Novak's article immediately after she read it.

Conclusions

This paper presents direct evidence that the intelligence group that operates out of VP Cheney's office orchestrated the exposure of Valerie Plame as a CIA operative, in order to realize goal #1, the "punishing" of Joseph Wilson for publicly challenging President Bush.

It includes both direct and circumstantial evidence from sources including Wilson, Dean, Klein, and others, that indicates they also had goal #2 in mind: to intimidate any other potential sources that could challenge their reasons for invading Iraq, as well as other measures in their "war on terrorism."

Yet these two goals alone do not explain why VP Cheney would (1) take part in a measure that would violate a federal law against exposing a CIA operative, or (2) risk a serious scandal for the Bush Administration.

The possibility that VP Cheney was hoping to derail a sting operation involving Valerie Plame, which is our identified goal #3, does explain why VP Cheney would condone the breaking of the federal law, and risk the most serious scandal that this administration faces.

Further research by an ad hoc DU "think tank" has identified possible connections between businesses connected to VP Cheney that may be associated with the sale of WMD components to countries in the Middle East. It is our belief that this theory and the evidence that supports it needs a more in-depth investigation.
At the time of publishing, the most recent message board thread on this subject can be found here:

[coeur_de_lion]

116. The Revolutionary Presidency vs. The Bill of Rights

Introduction

This paper will examine the dangers to constitutional democracy posed by the Bush Administration. It will review the concepts of separation of federal powers, the practice of the balancing of those powers, and scrutinize several areas where Bush/Cheney have corrupted this constitutional system that our democracy is based upon.

This paper will focus primarily on how the growing menace of an Imperial Presidency of the Nixon era has become the threatening reality of the Revolutionary Presidency today.

2) The Balance of Powers

A- The theories behind the constitutional democracy of the United States are the "distinctive American contribution(s) to the art of government." (The Imperial Presidency; Schlesinger; pg vii)

The idea of the 13 Colonies forming a confederate federal state came directly from meetings between Founding Fathers, primarily Ben Franklin, and the Grand Council of the Haudenosaunee, or Six Nations Iroquois Confederacy. Jefferson was influenced by the Iroquois' concepts of the freedoms of individuals; these, along with the contributions of progressive European thought (found primarily in France), led to the Bill of Rights.

However, in European history, governments had assumed a unified authority that allowed them to control, and deny, basic human rights to citizens of the state. Jefferson and Madison and others created the more perfect union, which allowed citizens to control the government through a series of checks and balances implied in the separation of powers on the federal level.

B- The three branches of the federal government are the executive, legislative, and judiciary. These three are intended to form a balanced triangle. The separation of powers is not intended to make all three to be locked into an equal status; rather, it offers checks and balances that creates an inertia that keeps any one branch from assuming unlimited powers. The goal, according to Justice Brandis (Myers v US 1926) is "not to promote efficiency, but to preclude the exercise of arbitrary power."

The executive, or the office of the president, has the implied power to provide leadership in emergency situations. In our early history, from the Revolutionary to the Civil War, this power was used only to respond to threats to the safety of citizens ( re: pirate attacks, which generally came from Tripoli, and which share important parallels with today's situation) and wars with foreign nations.

In these cases, these emergency powers were only intended for a brief period, before congressional controls took over. The Senate is the seat of the actual war powers. Further, according to Supreme Court Justice James Wilson, "The House of Representatives ... forms the grand inquest of the state. They will diligently inquire into grievances, arising both from men and things." (Grand Inquest; New York; 1961; pgs 22-30)

C- The history of democracy has been imperfect in the United States. The most basic rights have been denied to both groups and individuals, based upon their sex, age, race, and religion. Issues including gay marriage show that we still have a long way to go.

Yet, for all of its faults, our constitutional democracy has shown the greatest of promise. The efforts of each generation of Americans have brought us closer to providing the rights of free people to a larger, more inclusive population. This is a great nation.

From the Revolutionary to the Civil War was known as the "Golden Age" of the congress. Also, the sequence of presidents, and the series of federal courts moved the nation towards the promise of the Founding Fathers, found in the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution.

The reasons were found not only in those great documents, but in that separation and balance of powers at the federal level. These insured the Bill of Rights was a living entity. In fact, while many today note that President Lincoln suspended habeas corpus during the Civil war, there "was no effective censorship, no Sedition Act, no Espionage Act." (Schlesinger; pg 335)

However, after the Civil War, changes in the economy which were a result of the change from an agrarian to industrial national base, led directly to unprecedented influence of business on the national politics. This new level of extreme corruption led Mark Twain to refer to the phenomenon as the "Gilded Age" of politics.

It is important to note that all of industry would be connected, either directly or indirectly, to the production of oil. By 1870, all of the economies of the industrialized nations were based on oil. The significance of this is explored in greater detail in the book, "Farewell America."

D- Business interest rapidly became central to the decision-making processes of (1) citizens electing officials to the legislative and executive branches; and (2) the domestic and foreign policies of those elected officials in both branches. While the federal courts are defined as the branch that is supposed to "do the least harm to democracy," the changes in the executive and legislative branches created changes in the judiciary, just as surely as the pulling of two sides of a triangular mobile suspended above the crib of democracy.

Thus: (1) the president begins to increasingly dominate the legislative process; (2) the congress increasingly delegates its authority to the president; and (3) the federal courts tend to become "activist" to offset congressional impotence. And despite the best of intentions, and while acknowledging the value of many progressive decisions, the federal courts should not be "activist," as the dangers posed by current federal courts demonstrate.

3) Threats to our Constitutional Democracy

The deteriorative influences of business interests on the separation of federal powers accelerated during WW2. If we examine the relationship of the competition of the world economy on American political life, we can note a progression in the executive branch (including FDR, Truman, Ike, JFK, & LBJ) moving towards the Imperial Presidency of the Nixon Era. The two areas where this threat to our constitutional democracy were concentrated were (a) the war powers, and (b) secrecy. (Schlesinger)

The history of the war powers in terms of the president responding to a threat to the nation's security evolved significantly after WW2. This was due to the influence of the military industrial complex. All American foreign policy, with the exception of some initial attempts by JFK which ended on 11-22-1963, equated the access to foreign resources with national security, and domestic security with bureaucratic secrecy.

This was in opposition to the 64th Federalist Paper, in which John Jay interpreted the Constitution to recognize but two needs for federal secrecy: (1) diplomatic negotiations, and (2) intelligence.

Democracy by its very nature demands the disclosure of information by all three branches of government. Even among the widely varying opinions of the Founding Fathers, there was complete agreement that the free diffusion of information was vital to insure a stable federal government.

Yet as the executive branch created an elastic definition of "national security," the presidents began a more undemocratic relationship with the bureaucracies of the military industrial complex. And the instinct of bureaucracy is "to increase the superiority of the professionally informed by keeping their knowledge and intentions secret." (Max Weber: Essays in Sociology; Grath & Mills; New York; 1946)

4) External Threats to our Constitutional Democracy

The external threats to the USA from WW2 to the present tend to fit into three groups: the Nazi/ Axis powers; the communist menace; and the Islamic terrorist/"axis of evil" group of today. With the exceptions of Pearl Harbor and 9-11, all defined threats to our national interest tended to be defined as occurring in other countries, either to American business interests, or to trading partners. The cultural implications of Pearl Harbor and 9-11 are obvious.

Another external threat to our national security has become known to a large segment of our population through a cultural phenomenon, Michael Moore's movie "F 9-11." The threat is posed by foreign investments going beyond a few acres of land, or shares in a corporate stock. F 9-11 demonstrates clearly that a significant segment of our economy is controlled by foreign governments. One, for example, is Saudi Arabia. The Saudi royal family shows no appreciation for constitutional democracy.

Moore's movie demonstrates that the Saudi royal family is able to compromise the balance of powers in our federal government. Their influence with the Bush administration has stopped a serious investigation into what role they played in the 9-11 attack on the USA; allows them to manipulate what information becomes known to the American public; and interferes with the legal system, when James Baker represents the Saudis in a court action filed by the families of 9-11 victims.

5) The Revolutionary Presidency

The danger to our constitutional democracy could be measured in 2003 by the following: (a) the Bush administration was comprised almost exclusively by people with ties to business that define "conflicts of interest;" (b) both houses of congress, if not impotent, had at least agreed to a legislative abstinence of duty; the only elected representatives who attempted to stand up to the executive were from "minority" populations; and (c) the US Supreme Court had disgraced the judicial institution with its 2000 selection of Bush for president, based entirely upon political and economic interests.

The dangers of an imperial presidency pales in comparison to the current threat posed by the revolutionary presidency. Consider that: (a) George Bush has become the most absolute monarch of any world power in today's world. Add to that the fact that VP Cheney has more concentrated power than any dictator in world history, including Mao Tse-tung; (b) the congress is divided and weakened. The Senate has lost any control over the White House urge for increased war-making, and the House of Representatives no longer enquires into grievances, unless they concern issues such as oral sex rather than Enron, 9-11, the Plame exposure, or the disenfranchisement of tens of thousands of black citizens in Florida; and (c) the idea of 13 Colonies demanding freedom of speech is disgraced by 13 states having "libel" laws making it illegal to express concerns about food farms, or the safety of related "agro-business" food products. (Crimes Against Nature; Robert Kennedy, Jr.)

6) You Reap What You Sow

The Bush administration rules through fear, the "threats" to national security that they define, through manipulating the 9-11 national emergency, and through secrecy. Their policies pose a threat to individual liberties in order to benefit business interests, and they are the greatest threat to constitutional democracy today. The extent of this threat is exposed by a series of books associated with John Dean, Richard Clarke, Paul O'Neill, Robert Kennedy, Jr., and many others. It is also exposed to grass-roots America by the movie "F 9-11."

The reaction of the administration is to attempt to discredit the individuals involved in exposing the political corruption of this administration. This is not a new tactic. Before the FBI focused on Martin Luther King's sex life, before the COINTELPRO operations of the 1960s and '70s, we remember the efforts of two congressional leaders in the mid-50s. Senator Thomas Hennings, Jr. and Rep. John Moss questioned the bureaucratic secrecy that threatened the democratic system, by discussing why the government labeled a Pentagon study of the bow & arrow ("Silent Flashless Weapons") as "top secret."
They were accused of threatening national security.

This administration and its corporate sponsors, including the news media, are involved in a similar campaign to discredit critics. This campaign includes Ambassador Joseph Wilson. (see Plame Indictment Threads #1-12)

An unintended consequence of the high level of bureaucratic secrecy is that it leads to no respect for individual secrecy. This is evident from a reading of the Patriot Act: things like medical and library records, which should be protected by the US Constitution, are no longer private.

Further, the exposure of Valerie Plame as a CIA operative stands as the most stark example of the administration's contempt for the rights to privacy implied by the Constitution.

7) Conclusion

At the time of the American Revolution, the "founding fathers" met in secret. They were almost exclusively from the "upper class," and needed to keep their actions secret from King George. While they may have spoken more openly as individuals, their group efforts were not known to the upper class, including the newspapers of the day.

However, the middle class and the poor spread the word. They were aware of King George's spies, so they spread the word on a democratic underground. It took root -- and grass roots democracy has been the most important part of the foundation for this country ever since. The grass roots are more powerful than those three branches of the federal government.

We're in similar circumstances today. Our president is no more in favor of democracy than old King George was. We have two chances of kicking him out of power. The most obvious is the election in November. But there's also the Plame Indictments.

If there is any life breath in the balance of powers, the legislative and judiciary must do their jobs. This is a criminal outfit. There are now numerous "upper class" people organizing to hold this administration liable for their crimes. It's not just democrats hoping to reclaim the presidency in 2004. It's a wide range of citizens who know that Bush and Cheney intend to fully destroy the constitutional democracy we should enjoy.

You and I aren't meeting in their secret get-togethers. We're that grass-roots democratic power. Our primary job is to continue to educate the public, register voters, and increase participation in those treasures defined by the Bill of Rights. Please work to spread the message about the Plame Indictments. We've seen a preview of the administration's late summer counter-offensive.

Let's expose them as totally offensive.

Thank you,
H2O Man
2004 Delegate of the Mississippi Freedom Party
Democratic Underground Grass Roots Convention

[coeur_de_lion]

119. kick

[Merlin]

120. Just a couple more days before we can begin all out war on Bigus Dickus.

I will be enormously relieved if/when I learn the alarms I've been sounding for 2-1/2 years about Cheyney being dumped in favor of ? are proven to be false.

The VP is a giant human target. I pray the Plame indictment of Scooter comes out before mid-October to provide the kind of scandal-wrapped atmosphere this rotten administration so richly deserves.