does this go too far, DU?

[mdmc]

http://news.bostonherald.com/localRegional/view.bg?articleid=41001
Cops smell rodent at `rat'-outing Web site
By Tom Farmer and Jennifer Rosinski
Monday, August 23, 2004


A North Shore man's Web site that encourages the posting of informants'
identities and personal information about law enforcement officers is
drawing criticism from authorities in Oklahoma.

The ``Who's A Rat'' site (www.whosarat.com) was not put on the
Internet last week to endanger law officers or informants, said founder
Sean Bucci. Instead, it was posted to assist defense attorneys and
defendants with limited resources prepare for trial, he said.

``It's something that's been needed for a long time. I'm trying to
level the playing field,'' said Bucci, 31, who is fighting marijuana
dealing charges that landed him in jail for almost a year thanks to a
``heroin junkie and crack addict'' snitch, whose stories led the DEA to
mount cameras on a pole in front of his house for nine months.

``From that I got a deep, deep hate for the system for the way they
handle informants. It's sick. They take these big fish to catch
minnows,'' said Bucci, a North Shore resident. ``The site was designed
as just a tool to help people.''

But authorities in Oklahoma are among those questioning the site's
accuracy and calling it irresponsible. Oklahoma City police Capt.
Jeffrey Becker says the site could jeopardize undercover officers and
informants.

The service, which is free, also offers listings for defense
attorneys. Bucci warns he has the right to edit or delete any material
that goes beyond free speech.

The site boasts it is the first of its kind and legal based on case
law Bucci has posted.
``Keep up the fight and never give in,'' Bucci tells browsers.

[poliguru]

1. This makes me sick

Whatever anyone's feelings are about drugs being illegal, they ARE illegal. And everyone knows it. So if you're dealing drugs, don't be pissed when you get arrested. And don't endanger people's lives to get back at them. It's similar to posting the names an addresses of abortion doctors - and we know how well THAT turned out.

[MadHound]

4. Sorry, but I can't condemn it

The use of informants in our society has gotten out of hand. Too many people are popped for minor drug infractions, and then to get off they rat out friends, family and neighbors in order to get off, and a great deal of time the people they snitch on are innocent, their only crime being that they know the person who was originally arrested. Many are the horror stories of police raids involving injury and death of innocent people because the police were sent there on the word of a snitch. Also, the stakes have gotten to be much higher with our ever increasing forfiture laws. A snitch sends in the police to an innocent house, the people who own the house are arrested for suspicion of dealing, and the house is forfeited out. The owners of the house will be declared innocent in a court of law, but their house and others seized assets more than likely will remain the property of law enforcement.

If you wish to learn more about the excesses of informants and the law enforcement agencies they nominally work for, I suggest you read "Snitch Culture: How Citizens Are Turned Into the Eyes and Ears of the State" by Jim Redden. It was published before 911, yet still contains hundreds of examples of how informants are harming our society, and since 911 it has only gotten worse.

[jayfish]

5. And Don't Be A Rat Snitch Who Covers His...

own ass by fucking up other peoples lives. And don't endanger peoples lives by helping them get sent off to prison when you should be right there with them.

Jay

[mdmc]

6. one for

:kick:
and one against

[napi21]

2. Just what is he posting?

If he posts names or identities of undercover officers, that's wrong. If he posts information on street snitches, I'm not sure.

[truthspeaker]

11. Is it wrong? Depends on the circumstances.

What about undercover officers infiltrating peaceful anti-war groups? I don't see anything wrong with identifying them. It's for our own protection.

And I'd love to see undercover officers trying to bust marijuana dealers identified. It would make my life a lot easier, and it might make a few of them think twice about what they're doing.

[TheRovingGourmet]

18. Why would a peaceful anti-war group worry about being

infiltrated by informants?

[truthspeaker]

21. ?!?! You must be new here

There is a well known-tactic dating at least back to Vietnam War protests of inserting agent provocateurs into anti-war groups.

But to turn your question around, why would the police want to investigate a peaceful anti-war group?

[TheRovingGourmet]

25. Without the operative word "peaceful" I can't say one way

or the other just how justified infiltration would be. If I were in the position of law enforcement, I would like to know a group's intentions on keeping the peace and might send out someone to monitor the group. Sending out someone to try and start trouble would not be something I would ever see a justification for though.

[Bunny]

3. Here's a link to a profile of an alleged agent in SF.

http://www.whosarat.com/preview_agent.php?id=Mzc=

[SheepyMcSheepster]

7. i have a close friend who was totally screwed over by a guy "informing"

this guy got busted and the cops told him if he got some else busted he would have his punishment reduced. So this guy gets his girlfriend who worked with my friend to bug my friend about getting some weed for her "informant" boyfriend. she wanted an ounce and she kept pestering my friend about it until finally he just got the ounce to get her off his back (he is a nice guy like that), so anyway, arrangements are made to meet her boyfriend and suprise suprise at the meet up a new face is there. the guy with the boyfriend turned out to be an undercover cop. my friend got busted and they boyfriend didn't get anything reduced. that's justice for ya!

stop the prohibition of marijuana it is a waste of resources.

[SoCalDem]

8. In Chicago, they used to have "contests"..

The cops would have someone put out "entry forms" to win a TV or stereo system..They would place these in scummy neighborhoods at the little Mom & Pop shops and liquour stores..

Then they would cross check the entries for warrants..


When the "sting" was ripe, they would send cards to these people or call them to tell them they had "won"...

They won a one way trip to jail ....Greed and the love of free stuff wins every time :)

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

13. That I don't see much wrong with

In principle. Assuming the reason for the warrant is valid.

Weeds out dumbasses from the gene pool too.

[truthspeaker]

14. Yeah, me neither. Kind of funny actually.

[SoCalDem]

27. They showed one sting on the news..it was a HOOT..

These people were told to go to an address to claim their prize..They would walk in and show all kinds of ID to prove they were the "winner".. There were TV's & seteros sitting on the counter with big bows on them.. They were told that they needed to go through "that door" to get THEIRS.. the ones in front were for display..

Through "that door" were cops waiting to arrest them, and escort them out the back door, so the ones in the other room, would not catch on..

Some of the people took it quite well.. even laughing at their own stupidity..but some people got MAD!!

It was reality TV before they had a name for it.. :evilgrin:

[mitchum]

9. If the rat jacket fits...

I have no problem with this site at all

[TheRovingGourmet]

10. There will be people dead because of this site.

[truthspeaker]

12. And some of them have it coming.

[noiretextatique]

16. what about those who don't?

what if someone with an axe to grind falsely claims someone is an informant? that's a potential problem, but other than that...it seems to level the playing field, so to speak.

[histohoney]

19. Is

that what you'll tell their families.
By the way postings like this endanger innocent family members.
True, the system needs cleaning up, but this is to dangerous to many many Innocent people.
Will you trade bad for worse.

[truthspeaker]

23. Yep. I'd say "Daddy fought on the wrong side of the drug war."

Using deadly force to protect individual liberty was what this country was founded on. Don't like it? Take off the red coat.

[TheRovingGourmet]

26. In an informant revenge case here a couple of years back

the informant could not be gotten to but the baby of the informant's sister could be. The baby was raped and died.

[histohoney]

31. See

post 26 for what I'm worried about.
And yes it could happen again.
You are pretty cavalier with other peoples lives.

[texas is the reason]

33. "don't like it, take off the red coat" LOL!!!!! exactly!!!

anyone who would enter a line of work where they are to befrind non-violent drug "offenders" under false pretenses and then stab them in the back by throwing them behind bars for the best years of thier life is a piece of shit, and deserves to die. fuck them all.

On edit: i just checked out that site, and, okay, there probably are a lot of people on that list that shouldn't be (due to personal vendettas, erroneous info., etc.), and that IS dangerous. and someone who reports a murder/theft/etc is NOT a snitch or a rat...I am just saying that i support the concept of exposing undercover NARCOTICS officers, and if that gets some of them killed, i don't give a shit.

[Occulus]

24. kinda like sex offender regristries that way, huh nt

[MadHound]

15. And there are ten times more innocent people who have died

Because of the actions undertaken by informants. Perhaps it is time to make the rat bastards think a little before they go ratting out their perfectly innocent neighbors, friends, or relatives just to keep their sorry asses out of jail or pick up some quick cash.

[TheRovingGourmet]

17. While I deplore about everything having to do with the drug

war, I still want a judge & jury to be responsible for meting out justice. Anything else sounds like handling things the way the gangs do.

I also see the need for informants as they are often the ones that get the leads to solve difficult cases. It was informants that helped to catch the scumbags here that "did things" to a mother in front of her six year old daughter before they took the mother elsewhere and beat her to death.

[Tsiyu]

20. Informants for heinous crimes

are one thing.

Those who would in any way, shape or form support the staggering loss of life and resources taken from our society by this "War on Drugs" should be revealed.

It is the illegal status of the drugs, and not their inherent danger, which breeds the violent crime. Just as in prohibition of alcohol, and just as it would be if cigarettes or cheeseburgers or bad TV were outlawed.

I am tired of seeing the rapists and the child molesters and the Corporate Robber Barons walk the streets. This is allowed because our prisons are overrun with Johnny Pot Smokers.

Sickening. If you are a person who would turn on your friends, others should be warned about you.

Do your research on THE WAR ON DRUGS. Then decide if it's wrong for brave people to try to end it.

[MadHound]

22. I agree about the need for informants, to a certain extent

However that line is a long way behind us in the rear view mirror, and getting even further away. Instead, the snitch culture is becoming ever more prevalent in our society, with people ratting out others for simple, minor infractions, or no infractions at all. And the controls on the use of informants, and verifying of their information have been thrown to the wind. At least once a month I read an article about some poor innocent soul shot to death by the police who thought they were making a drug bust on the sole word of some snitch who needed to get out of a jam.

I also believe in a judge and jury to dispence justice, that is why I so adamant about our out of control snitch culture. An informant rats out an innocent person, and that person is put into jail on their word alone. Look at all the of the death row inmates, put in that position by informants, who were later exonerated, sometime after decades of incarceration.

Sorry, but like I said before, I can't condemn this. The snitch culture has to be reigned in somehow before it is too late. I don't want to live in a Nazi Germany or Stalinist Russia where everybody is a snitch, but that is where we're headed. Since our government on all levels is determined not to do anything about this problem, in fact they are encouraging it, then it is up to the people of the US to stop it. This may be a bit over the top, but if it makes someone think twice before ratting out a fellow human being, all the much better.

[TheRovingGourmet]

29. I would certainly advocate for an informer getting a severe

punishment for false testimony. I would also say that the drug war is screwing this country up on levels too numerous to count. The violence it creates doesn't go unnoticed but the blame is always improperly placed, whether it be guns, not enough prisons, short sentences, and so forth. I doubt that this will ever change. The drug war is just too big of a business now to easily fight.

[Endangered Specie]

28. The Bill of Rights protects his free speech, legally speaking...

That notwithstanding, I think that son of a bitch is a sorry low life excuse for a homosapien and if lightning were to strike him tomorrow, I would consider it poetic justice.

Someone should post his adress and tele #.

[Radius]

30. Free Speech

Courts ruled against sites posting the names of abortion doctors names and addresses.

He is civilly liable if someone acts on false information and could be charged with conspiracy to commit whatever. Witness tampering, obstruction of justice, etc..

He is also opening himself up to violence from someone named a rat who is conducting illegal activities.

Usually the feds use small time people to roll over onto bigger fish. But if he was cought in a sting doing something illegal he has no one to blame but himself.

[Nadienne]

32. Snitchers have motives.

And Mr. Bucci snitching on the snitchers... His motive: revenge? Amusing. But I'd rather root for him than the witch-hunt-helpers.