I was just viciously attacked in Wal-Mart!

[Meldread]

And it was by someone I knew! And I was with my Mother! It was only verbally though.

The conversation started out normal enough. It was someone we haven't spoken to for some time. Then, I forget how she approached it, but she asked me if I watched Fox News. My Mother looked at me and then looked at her with a "Yeah right, did Hell just freeze over and nobody tell me?" type face. And I said No and the woman went crazy! She asked was I a liberal and I said "Yeah" and she went insane!

I knew she was a pretty heavy conservative but I didn't know she was this far gone. When I say "far gone" I mean... goooooooooooooooooooneeeeeeeeee beyond the point of return. I hardly said a word to her, although when I did say something it was cutting and to the point, which only sent her further and further over the edge.

I actually thought it was humors but I was a bit pissed that I didn't really say all that much. My Mother kept giving me the "look", you know, the "Keep your mouth shut!" look and even kicked me in the leg once. (Because I said listening to Rush Lardbutt is like getting your information from Mickey Mouse.) She kept getting louder and louder and people who saw the argument were staring at us and walking around. My Mother was horribly embarrassed and didn't know what to do.

My question is though... how do you deal with these people? You can't reason with them because they don't understand reason or logic. She asked where I got most of my news from I said from the Internet and C-SPAN (she accused C-SPAN of being liberal, including all news papers as being liberal, and everything on the internet being fake and made up.)

We couldn't just walk away, mostly because I'm gonna stand my ground... but the woman went pretty bat-shit crazy. She started fanning herself she got so worked up. She just couldn't handle it. Finally my mother broke in and said "Well we gotta get going" (after 45 min) and she used that as an excuse to get out of there... but not before saying "I need to read the Bible" (But this was after she said didn't care that people were losing their overtime nor the fact that thousands upon thousands are dying because of Bush's wars.)

How do you deal with these people? Have you ever had an experience like this before? The argument (which consisted mostly of her trying to subvert, convert, and nearly shouting) was pretty much her talking and me making a few points here and there or taking a low shot when she'd go low. (Like when she said that if John Kerry became President we'd all be "bowing before Mecca" (her words not mine -- and when I tried to explain that Arabs worshiped Allah not Mecca she wouldn't believe me).

How do you deal with these people without being rude? I mean I feel sorry for her – she’s been badly brainwashed.

[democracyindanger]

1. Point and laugh nt

[JuniperLea]

2. i have an aunt like that

'you should only watch fox news! they are the only ones who tell the truth!'

argh! she can't see the manipulation! i don't know what to do, but thanks for raising the question. hope you get some good feedback we can all use!

[skygazer]

3. Please don't support Wal Mart

I know that's not the point of your thread but they are notoriously anti-union, anti-woman and anti-minority.

[DemBones DemBones]

28. Please see my post #25.

:-)

[goddess40]

30. I agree, I'll do without before I shop at wal-mart

I know times are hard but Wal-mart is not the answer.

[lanparty]

93. I CHOSE Wal-Mart the other day ...

... and I rarely do.

Their refills for a canister of Propane was only $14. The local service station wanted $21.

If it was only a $2 difference, I would have bought it from the gas station. But a $7 difference reflects %50 over what Wal-Mart would charge.

In that case, I really didn't feel bad for the gas station because it was clear they were jacking up their propane refills.

[Bombero1956]

106. or it could be....

That Wal-Mart was taking a loss on the propane until they drive the other propane seller out of business and then you'll be paying $21 or whatever they chose because they'll be the only choice in town.

[lanparty]

113. Could be ...

... but I doubt it since there are other providers around. The gas station certainly isn't going out of business. They could stop selling propane though???

In this instance, I'm pretty sure that the gas station had an unusually high markup. But I'll keep my eye out for another propane provider. If they can come in at about the $16-$17 mark, I'll buy from them instead of Wally-World.

Honestly, I really do AVOID shopping there except for a few specific items. But sometimes, it's just the place thats open that has what you need at a decent price.

[JohnnyRingo]

39. Amen...Thank you, remind people that every community has options....

..to WalMart

It may cost A LITTLE more, but it's cheaper than supporting the under employed through social programs.

[auburngrad82]

110. And huge supporters of the republican party

http://www.opensecrets.org/industries/contrib.asp?Ind=N

[Mr_Spock]

119. Here, here! I am currently boycotting Wal Mart

or "Trailer Mart" as I call it sometimes. It's not fair but often these folks that shop there are gruff and are the knucklehead right-wing morons that the poster encountered. Why these people choose to take their anger out on the rest of the nation and the world by voting for an utter moron is beyond me. Did I just say morons are voting for a moron? Guess I just answered my own question...

[7th_Sephiroth]

4. reason is lost on those kind of people

you need to hire de-programmers to break the hypnotisim oxyrush and faux news put them into

[truth2power]

24. You got it, Seph!

It's the reptilian brain that's programmed with these people. And I do mean programmed. Fight or flight. Survival.

I've come to the conclusion that that's why we are often reduced to banging our heads into the wall in frustration. We're trying to communicate with them using logic. And it just. doesn't. work.

I've had my share of encounters with people like this. You know.....living in Cincinnati and all. :silly:

We need to find ways of triggering their survival instincts.

Here's an article from CommonDreams. I read it about a week ago and was meaning to post it, but being the laggard that I am, someone got there ahead of me, over in the Meeting Room.

Cheney Speaks to the Reptile Brain

http://www.commondreams.org/views04/0817-13.htm

snip>

"The simple reality is that issues framed in intellect will never trump issues framed in emotions. And to have maximum power, those emotions must include the limbic brain feelings of hope and idealism as well as the reptilian brain instincts for survival and safety.

Of course, issues must make sense to the thinking brain, but if presented in a way that misses the other two of our brains, they will never motivate people to walk into a polling place and pull a lever or mark a ballot.

[7th_Sephiroth]

32. its like any other cult really

people conditioned into a weaker mental state than pumped so full of lies and fear thast they do that kind of thing

[Pluvious]

87. more info on reptile brain

(thanks to sven)
http://www.davidicke.com/icke/articles2/reptbrain.html
david icke - about the reptilian brain

[The Sushi Bandit]

5. 2 words.. pepper spray!

[timtom]

26. I don't usually use these clever acronyms, but

LOL, Soosh! That was hilarious.

[Meldread]

36. Hah! I like that idea.

Pull out the Pepper Spray, then kidnap her and take her to a de-programming center. :P

The woman is a friend of the family so I couldn't just... well... I wanted to be harsh but I was prohibited by my own Mother being there. She wanted to avoid getting in a fight in the middle of Wal-Mart.

I wouldn't even shop there but we live in a small town and it's like the only place to go because all the small businesses folded once Wal-Mart showed up.

At first I was in shock because I mean... we were having a pretty normal conversation before she just totally flipped out. She looked at me like I had grown 5 or 6 heads.

She asked me "What did your Dad think?" "If you ever lived with me I'd kick you out!" Then she started talking about her Kid not being a "Liberal" but she slipped up and said he doesn't like to get involved in politics and that she thinks he's more "moderate" and how he doesn't like her acting that way. (Which to anyone who isn't bat shit insane can see why he doesn't like to talk about it or get involved.)

[SemperEadem]

47. question

How old are you?

If I was with my mom and one of her friends started wailing on me the way this friend of your mom's wailed on you, all bets would be off... if you're both adults, then you say whatever you need to to get her to back the fuck off. If you're grown, then it's a little late in the game for mom to be shushing you.

IMO, it's kinda interesting that your mom just let this woman talk the way she did to you in front of her and did nothing to come to your defense, other than issuing you 'the look'. That look and some choice words should have been for her friend, not you.

What to say to the fishwife?
1. When she first went off about you not watching FUX: "I've got some shopping I need to take care of.." and walk away.
2. After 45 minutes (which was about 44 1/2 minutes too long)"You really should see your doctor about upping the dose on your medication" and walk away...
3. "Security!!! Help!! I'm being stalked and harassed!!!"

I understand respecting your elders, but when someone is verbally attacking you and your own mother won't step up and squelch it, then it's up to you not to be punked out in public by some idiot who needs to be committed.

[charliebrown]

70. Sounds like all the crap here.

Why confront people you know disagree Implicitly? Flip em off on the highway, Thats gonna change thier mind? Rip off bumper stickers. That did a lot to make em vote Kerry? Show hate cause they have a different idea?

All argueing in wal-mart does is give them the idea that you can't be civil and makes Dems look like thugs. (Agree with me or we won't be friends). I posted almost this same thing last night and I will everynight till I see the change thier minds through hate and violence threads stop.

I know that this is a thread to get attention cause I did the same sh@t. Check out my past ones.

All it does is piss off right-wingers and makes you look sad.

Try debating instead of insults and pushing.

Goodluck and sorry if you take this wrong.

[CaTeacher]

84. hey CharlieBrown,

sounds like you have some good advice! Are things working out OK with you? I was worried a while back--things were not going well at your job?

[charliebrown]

104. Hi CaTeacher

I have resolved things at work thanks to the good advice I got from members of DU. Thanks for thinking about me!!!

[CaTeacher]

116. Excellent!

That is good to hear--I was worried about things. Hate to see a good person getting run down at work--I have been there myself.

Glad to know that things are going well for you!

In friendship and solidarity,
CaTeacher

[charliebrown]

117. Thank you again Ca Teacher for your concern.

I realized after the people telling me it was wrong to try to hold an entire workplace to my ideals. It was wrong for me to be so mad I did bad things to other americans who might not share my views.

I am not a bad or mean person and I saw those traits showing in myself after DUers pointed them out. That was not me at all so thank you and this site!!!!

I apologized to my boss after he fired me, then listened to me and rehired me, and we have been ok since.

Thank you for caring CaTeacher!!!

[CaTeacher]

118. WOW!

That is a really great story! I love it that you were able to be open with your boss--and he was able to put the problems in the past and treat you in a professional manner.

It shows that both you and your boss are truly first class people.

I am so glad that you have a good working environment now.

Take care of yourself--I will be looking for your posts---which I always enjoy very much.

[Meldread]

85. Erm.

I didn't start the debate. She did. I would have avoided it had I the chance. However, she's the one who lunged at me all I did was defend myself against her insults, attacks, and accusations. Then occasionally trying to talk some sense to her.

Read my post at #83. ;)

[lanparty]

97. Diffusion AND enragement ..

If someone cuts you off on the interstate, just let it pass. Smile and give the bowing thumb-waggle.

It will calm you down. If they're a reasonable person, it will make them see their error by not provoking a defensive reaction. If they're a major asshole, it will piss them off far more than flipping them off.

It's a WIN-WIN-WIN situation ;-)

[Kipepeo]

121. I don't think she tried insults or pushing...

Just from what I read about her encounter anyway.

I think debate/confrontation is good but I agree that it's best not to devolve into insults if you can help it.

I have many freeper relatives who send me bogus forwarded-emails from time to time, and I always respond and explain why what they're sending is ridiculous.

I think it's the same with person-to-person confrontations. If some asshole tries to spew FAUX garbage at me, I'll let them know why I find it disgusting.

On a personal note though, I am finding it hard lately to keep from letting my anger give way to hatred. This is the most divisive political climate I could imagine and we have * to thank for that.

[DrWeird]

6. Tell her that a survey shows...

that Fox viewers are the most uninformed on the issues out of all the major network or cable viewers.

Then point and laugh.

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

7. Nothing you can do

During the anti war protest, we had someone come up to us and start to shout insults and obscenities. We answered as we always did "We support the Constitution and your right to speak your mind." Her response was to turn her backside to us and pretend to wipe her anus with that document as she said "Explative the Constitution!" She lunged towards us and one of the sheriff's deputies came over and took her arm and led her away. We were in shock-and these creeps still shock me, and make me wonder if they aren't Nazis reincarnated.

[DemWitch]

Why in the hell are you worried about being rude?

If she went off on a rampage like that for just saying you were liberal, then she deserves any backlash coming her way. She should feel damned luck it wasn't me, cause believe me she would ahve gotten more than an earfull. Fanning herself... the Wal_mart Greeter woulds been dialing 911 after the verbal blitzkrieg I woulda given her. And even though my Mom is as right wing as they come, she wouldn't put up with that kind of disrespect either. Knowing my Mom, this woman would not only have her parentage questioned, she would have been told to do something quite physically impossible to herself.

One can dissagree and be respectful. Once that's gone, there is no reason to be a punching bag.

[anarchy1999]

62. I'm SO glad

someone's else's mom is so confusingly alternative to her offspring.

I gets frustrating being so PC with the woman who bore you.

[anarchy1999]

63. I'm SO glad

someone's else's mom is so confusingly alternative to her offspring.

I gets frustrating being so PC with the woman who bore you.

[bukk]

8. Walk away

When they're this crazy, there is nothing to be said or done. Shrug, smile, thank them for sharing their views, and walk away. There is nothing you can do to change the dynamic at work here except to escape it.

[Media_Lies_Daily]

9. Ask them in a loud voice if they've checked their dosage lately.

[brainshrub]

10. Why the heck were you in a Wal-Mart in the first place?

And don't give me the "Wal-Mart-is-the-only-place-in-a-three-thousand-mile-radius-where-I-can-buy-anything" excuse.

[Blue Gardener]

22. I have to take my sister there sometimes

She quite a bit older than I am, is a widow, retired, and doesn't drive. She is a huge Kerry supporter, so I cut her some slack when she wants to go to Wal Mart. She lived in Arkansas for quite a few years while her husband was alive, then moved back to Iowa to be closer to family. Arkansas is home base for Wal Mart, so she's shopped there for years.

[DemBones DemBones]

25. Why are you hassling the poster? With incomes not

going up (often going down due to lay-offs), people are looking for cheap goods to make their money go farther.

Besides, If all DUers quit shopping at Wal-Mart, it would not cripple Wal-Mart, not even make a ripple.

There are good reasons not to shop at Wal-Mart. There are good reasons not to drive a car. There are good reasons to boycott dozens, perhaps hundreds, of corporation's products. There are many good causes to support.

Guess what? NOBODY can do the right thing all the time. And sometimes you figure out that a choice you made to avoid one evil has only led to another evil.

Everyone should do his/her best to live responsibly in a bewildering world and not nag those who seem less perfect.

:-)

[kymar57]

29. Fine post DBDB n/t

[brainshrub]

55. Not to pick on the poster or you but ...

Boycotting Wal-Mart is sooooooo easy to do, and if you think it doesn't make a difference, then you've bought into the lie that individuals can't make a difference.

We have to start somewhere, so why not Wal-Mart? It's policies help create the economic mess we are in.

[HuskerDem]

65. What makes you think YOU get to decide where the poster should

start? Yes we do all have to start somewhere, you want to start with Wal*Mart........ fine. Present your case in a thoughtful and respectful manner if you hope it to be well recieved.

You are wrong to berate or belittle anyone for not ascribing to your pet cause, and your abrasiveness is probably counter productive.

[Kitka]

78. Yeah, my 'pet cause' is

human rights. It's quite obvious that this company doesn't support them. Knowing that and shopping there anyway makes one complicit.

[DemBones DemBones]

80. It's NOT easy to boycott Wal-Mart when you have

limited money and can save a lot on groceries and other necessities by shopping at Wal-Mart.

It's NOT easy to boycott Wal-Mart when they've caused other stores in your area to go out ot business.

If you drive a longer distance just to boycott Wal-Mart, you use extra gasoline (which certainly doesn't help the Earth) and you further strain your budget by spending more on gas as well as more on your purchases.

Because many people like Wal-Mart and big-box stores in general, it may be a losing battle to try to get people to boycott them. You can work to inform people about their unfair labor practices in the US and the human rights issues affecting overseas workers who produce the cheap goods Wal-Mart retails, but not everyone is altruistic enough to pay more to shop elsewhere. Don't blame them for that, blame the political conditions that allowed Wal-Mart to develop.

Work to change what we agree is wrong with Wal-Mart. Help efforts to unionize Wal-Mart employees. Work to influence trade policies so that we don't trade with countries with poor human rights records. Work to get legislation passed that benefits workers in this country. Find political solutions to political problems.

[lanparty]

98. Well there ARE alternatives ...

ALDI is probably the best outlet for discount groceries. They treat their people good (German owned).

Cosco is a great alternative to Wal-Mart. It's another company that believes strongly in treating their workers right.

Lets be realistic though. Occasionally, buying something from Wal-Mart is the only choice. And in some areas, Wal-Mart literally is the ONLY choice.

The best that most of us can do is avoid Wal-Mart as much as we can.

[DemBones DemBones]

103. That's not true for many people. There is no Costco

within 100 miles of me and I've never heard of ALDI at all so I suspect it's a West Coast thing.

(Wait a minute, you're arguing both sides, anyway. What's up with that?)

Yes, avoid Wal-Mart if you can but, as I suggested, it might be more meaningful to work to change Wal-Mart.

Nagging people, as done earlier in the thread, isn't a very effective way to change behavior, much less society.

[lanparty]

114. It's a GERMAN thing ..

And a search of Aldi's website shows there isn't ONE outlet in California. The Midwest is littered with them. http://usa.aldi.com/ I don't know where you live. But you may want to search your state to see where the nearest one is. It would be worth it for the research value alone ;-)

ALDI gives value a brand new definition. They carry a very limited inventory and sell lots of it for cheap. But it's often the generics that come off the same production line as the branded items.

[PassingFair]

64. Bull pucky!

If all Duers AND people of conscience quit shopping at Walmart, we WOULD damn near cripple them.

[Meldread]

69. The problem is...

...most people don't have a conscience. Most people are heartless bastards who are only out for themselves.

[Kitka]

77. Exactly. "We can't make change so why bother".....

one of the most damning attitudes there is.

[lil-petunia]

105. the good news is Wallmart

took a big hit yesterday. much lower sales than predicted.

[sam sarrha]

107. Its true here id West TN they put everybody else out of busisness for 40

miles... :grouphug:

[themonster]

11. Mind numb conservatives

My older brother is a Fox news, Rush Blimpbaugh, conservative Republican. Everyone in my family is a Democrat except him. There is no use talking to him about politics. He is brainwashed, thats the best way I can describe him. I have not talked to him in over a year. I just couldn't bear to be around him anymore. He is the same bully now as he was when I was a kid. It doesn't surprise me that he is a Republican. He fits into that party perfectly.

[mcar]

33. Gosh, are we from the same family?

I have an older brother just like that!

[mitchtv]

76. no, it's my wingnut brother

my neighbor has one too

[lanparty]

99. Point of order ...

Rush Limbaugh is still an idiot, but he is no longer fat. In fact, I daresay that Al Franken is now fatter than Rush. So we should abstain from the fat jokes concerning Rush.

You can loose weight. But once you're an addict, you're ALWAYS an addict.

[Shoeempress]

12. I pull my cell phone and call the police. Tell them where I am

and that a crazy person is attacking me, let them listen to the conversation. Tell them you are in fear, tell them to hurry.

[Trajan]

52. LMFAO ! ....

Oh fuck: .. that is perfect ....

Somehow: I connect with that thinking .... NO fuckin around: you wanna attack me ? .. talk to the LAW .... they may have something to say about your public display of assaultive behaviour ...

Im all over that: Touch me ?: Assault and Battery ... Spit on me ? ... assault and battery ... Impede my movement ? ... kidnapping and assault ...

Dont fuck around with these nuts: have them arrested instead ...

[progressivebydesign]

13. I don't deal with them...

.. you can't win, and you'll only make yourself crazy. I had a close, close friend who was never political, we got along great. She met a guy. A republican. A married republican. She brought her married beau to my small wedding. At dinner, he and she proceeded to tell us what a scumbag Clinton was because he cheats on his wife! Okay.. so the guy, and his mistress is telling us (frothing at the mouth) that Democrats have no morals because Clinton cheated. When I asked my friend later (having the class NOT to bring anything up at dinner), how she and her married lover could find Clinton morally bereft, she said.. 'because he's a public official, he should be better than us'.

I realized, then and there, that I really didn't have anything left in that friendship. If I can't be political or even apolitical with a friend, then I can't hang with that. If your friend brought it up, then she is not able to be apolitical. I hope you never, ever, have to see her again. She's beyond reason.

[Bernardo de La Paz]

100. You can win. When they froth and raise their voice, you won.

Let the foam fly!

[kikiek]

14. Reason 1001 to stay out of Wal Mart! I would have walked away.

I don't waste any of my time with people like that. Too stupid.

[Sugarbleus]

15. I think you did GREAT!! Geez, I WISH someone would challenge

me on my politics.........boy, I'd let 'em have it (maybe I should get out more :)) The ideal way to deal with folks like that is to KEEP INFORMED. Whenever one is approached by the "other side", be ready with details/facts to shoot down their rant. Just telling people to go cheney themselves isn't the way to go, IMO.

You stood your ground with facts, held to your values and principles; the other woman was the one falling apart (poor dear).

:toast:

[joefree1]

16. Get aggressive progressive!

Sounds like you done good.

Most rethuglican folks I know don't talk about politics when I'm around. In the beginning they may have tried using their chain e-mail lies, jokes and finally intimidation. My circle of friends won't put up with it anymore. We just get in their face and loudly and firmly proclaim the truth.

It blows the repukes away to be confronted by an aggressive progressive.


Download the free poster/sign here:
http://ediablo.com/eDiabloGallery.html

[Q3JR4]

17. I had an experience like that,

except the lady and guy were Nader supporters.

In that instance I would have walked away...unless she had some valid points (I know, giving her more credit than I should).

[kymar57]

18. cheney being "rude"

We have one thing on our side in these arguments. They're known as FACTS

[karlrschneider]

19. I had a similar expierience (and yes, In a WalMart ---see disclaimer below

It is the only grocery store within 28 miles since they moved in and ran Homeland out of business here in eastern Wagoner County. I will make the trip for large purchases but not for a bottle of milk and a loaf of bread)...anyway,

I was admiring a copy of Clinton's book (having been somewhat surprised they even had them...right by the checkout)...a guy was looking at them and I said something "It was great when we had a President who cared about the country"

He glared at me and said "Oh, are you one of those 'LIBRULS"?

I said, probably too loudly, "You're goddamn right, I'm a very PROUD liberal and it's nothing to apologize for. And I'm sick and tired of these phony christian fascists who're squatting in my White House."

He turned away, I looked around at the nearby people...got a couple of glares and 2 thumbs up. I thought it wasn't too bad for this backward
buckle of the bible-belt area. ;-)

[cosmicvortex20]

20. There are nuts on both sides... I wouldnt worry too much about it.

Ive seen liberal rages too ;)

Politics has very little to do with manners, no matter how much we would like to believe otherwise.

[LiberalManiacfromOC]

21. make them feel insensitive (they are, but still)

for example, when she talks about how she doesn't care about people dying in bush's wars then say something to this effect "Well, I'm sorry that you have no emapathy for others or their lives and obviously only care about yourself, but unlike you you I realize there are other people in this world and they're important to me. You might not understand this, what with your heartlessness, but that's why I'm a liberal. If you have a problem with that then, feel free to keep screaming at me for being a liberal but I think that would indicate for you to shut the hell up." Then, smile and leave.

[steph_in_az]

23. Running scared!

The Republicans are starting to realize that their time in the White House is limited. They are experiencing the unraveling of their master plan and they can't stand the thought of failure. When they have based so much of their reality on faith, rather than reason, it's hard to justify the Bush Administration and their evil ways and they start to fear exposure. Most of the people you encounter like this are just followers that need a cause, when you ask for specifics or point out issues, they lack the answers or better yet the solutions, anger is simply a mask for their ignorance.

[Lex]

27. Referral to a good psychiatrist was in order.

She sounds paranoid and delusional. Seriously.

[coalition_unwilling]

31. Oh, how glad I am that I escaped S.W. Missouri

I always try to have snappy one-liners to shoot their way (before I spin on my heels and walk away). Truth is, I'm not real interested in what they have to say, so I just love getting a dig in when I get the chance.

Here's my current favorite: "Who would Jesus torture?" (with apologies to the anti-war movement's 'Who would Jesus bomb?'). That pretty much shuts up the fundamentalist kook faction.

[WillyT]

34. Death, The Extreme Right, And The Extreme Left !!!

Both of these stories happened to me in the last month.

1) I'm talkin about Fahrenheit 9\11 with some folks at my favorite bar, and this couple we all know walks in after just seeing it. I asked what they thought. She... says that it was disturbing and thought provoking. He... says I don't care about those ragheads, after 9\11, I say wipe 'em all out.

Now I caught him winking at the bartender when he said it, but I told him he was an asshole, as did his wife, the bartender, and a few others. One couple actually got up, flipped him off, and left.

If he thought he was kidding, it backfired big-time!

2) A friend at work is telling me that there is no difference between rePukes and Dems, and I ask, "You can still say that after 4 years of this shit???" And he tells me he could. He apparently holds the Ralph view that it is going to have to get significantly worse for REAL change to happen in this country. For people to rise up and take the country back.

So I mention to him the fact that while he and his family may be able to survive another 4 years intact, many many others will not. Many will in fact die because of another 4 years of *. And he looks at me, and says, "So be it."

We haven't spoken for some time now.

[Quahog]

108. Cool stories

Someone making a comment like the guy in #1 would probably get his ass kicked in public here in RI, unless he made it VERY clear that he was joking around.

Your second story is more interesting to me, because it demonstrates a quality that I think typifies both Naderites and bushistas: the abandonment of morality in the name of ideology. This is the ultimate application of Utilitarianism (ends justify the means), to the point where no interim consequence is so horrifying as to nullify the desired outcome. Ralph Nader is a guy who ostensibly devoted his life to trying to protect people, regular people, and yet here are his most rabid supporters saying that if those very people he tried to protect must DIE in order for Nader to rule the nation, that's OK. Same with the bush* acolytes. Oh yes, they are great Christians, great followers of Jesus... but if thousands of innocent human beings, God's creations, must be shot and blown up and burned and mutilated and tortured to assure the continued reign of a monkey, well, that's a fair tradeoff.

The fact that the word "morality" can even form on the lips of these people makes me dizzy to the point of nausea. If what I understand of the teachings of Christ is true as I believe it to be, there is a special room in hell waiting for each one of them.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

35. They Pray In The Direction of Mecca I Believe (nt)

Thank God my mom is a Democrat.... That's why I was a Democrat at birth....

[Meldread]

42. Yeah, I know. I tried to explain it to her...

Yeah, I know. I tried to explain it to her but the problem was she was ranting and raving. ;) It was hard to get a word in edgewise.

I'm just glad she doesn't know I'm gay or it would have been worse. I'm glad the subject didn't come up because if it had... well... mother there or not she'll have to move because I would have gone for the jugular. :P

I have no idea how the conversation made a turn in that direction. We were talking about my brother in law and then she just asked if I watched Fox News. My mother is upset about the whole experience, but I found it rather humorous because of the fact that she made herself look crazy as hell to everyone who passed by.

She even pulled out her Bush/Cheney Bumper Sticker she had in her purse! I asked if she got that from a rally where Bush spoke, and if so did she have to sign a paper pledging her support. She said no and that she got it from someone selling them on the street and then said she's never heard of them having to do that so it must be a "liberal media lie". So then I told her I've actually seen the paper then she goes "Well you know John Kerry does it too then."

She did 75% of the talking and I was fairly silent at first (mostly out of shock lol). Until she started to become aggressive toward me and that's when I got pissed and started firing back. I gave as much as I got and I would have given more.... ugh... damn my Mother for being there. :P I just can't stand that look she gives me. I kinda enjoyed it though.

[Pithlet]

37. I don't think there is a way

She was being rude to begin with, and the only think you can do if you're trying to maintain decorum is try to switch the subject. But, that isn't always easy to do. Sometimes the only thing to do if you don't want a fight is to walk away. My family is full of people like her, so I've become familiar with the drill.

[Meldread]

49. Heh.

It's the first time it's really ever happened to me -- someone that aggressive -- it was some what of a shock. Then once I got over the initial shock I knew I should have probably walked away, but it was hard because I wasn't alone. On top of that I'm too full of pride. :P I wanted to fight back, but I really couldn't do anything with my Mother there. She tried to stay out of it, but my Mom hates Clinton so when she started her Clinton bashing my Mom was all on her side (Traitor!). However, when I brought up the tax breaks and Overtime Issue my Mom was back on my Side and the woman started to get mad (or more mad lol).

*shrugs* I got a bit of entertainment value out of it I suppose. Had it not been in a public place I might have been more aggressive.

[zeemike]

38. I say maintain your dignity

And stay cool
It is all you can do. And the wacko will make a fool of themselves every time.

[iconoclastic cat]

40. Wow, that sort of thing never happens to me.

Nobody ever goes off on me like that--they've gone off to me, but not on me. I suppose I should be glad. I'm really good at distracting people, though.

I don't think there is any point in trying to interact with fascists; just blow her off. I'm sorry that you had to deal with that.

[eleny]

41. Another reason to never shop at Wal-Mart

[NC_Nurse]

43. I have to give my RW dad credit

at least he hates WalMart! :D

[jackieforthedems]

44. She Would Have Been Praying For Some Divine Intervention

If it would have been me that she was chanting to because, I'm sorry, but she had no right to do that to you, and I would have put her in her place quick.

[bobbyboucher]

45. You fucked up, you went to WalMart.

What do you expect?

[Citizen Daryl]

46. Hand out packets of purple Kool-Aid.

It may not solve anything, but it's funny as hell.

[Fatima]

48. How do you deal with people like these?

You walk away...

These are the unconvertable, and talking to them is like trying to teach a pig to sing. It's a waste of your time, and it annoys the pig.

Walk away! Let the pig shriek to herself!

:)

[Kukesa]

53. I totally agree -- no use wasting time on them -- walk away. n/t

[proud patriot]

50. Yes and I get very patriotic on their ass

[Lestatdelc]

51. Rebutt any "facts" spewed with a grin

Be eager and excited to keep talking, with a big eager grin, waiting to bat down their BS, be happy, excited and polite.

Pepper with biting satire and pointed rhetorical... and enjoy the exploding heads.

[My Pet Goat]

54. When she used "I need to read the Bible" as an excuse to leave...

I would have told her that Jesus was a lib. (if I had the presence of mind to think of saying such a thing at the time, which I probably would not have...:silly:)

Thanks for writing up this story, I had a great laugh while reading it. :-)

[IkeWarnedUs]

56. Tell her you will pray for her

If someone is beyond logic, tell them you will pray for their enlightenment. That you are sorry that they have fallen under the influence of evil and are so far under that influence they can't tell right from wrong, but that you will pray for them to see the light.

If you really want to fuck with them, make the sign of the cross over them and say something latin sounding.

[thinkingwoman]

57. rofl

that's such a great response. I must borrow it. Thank you.

[Meldread]

59. Actually I did say something along those lines... lol.

I told my Mom when she was ranting and raving that "We need to pray for her" and she spouted back "NO! I need to pray for YOU!"

:P

[TlalocW]

58. My way just incites them more...

Depending on the situation, I'll either overload them with facts and my opinions on what's going on, or I'll let them rant and rave while I smile my most infuriating smile at them which lets them know I'm patronizing them. They'll normally contradict themselves sometime during their spiel at which point I'll break in and point it out to them. Then I smile, smile, smile some more. :)

TlalocW

[Enraged_Ape]

60. Lesson #1: Don't go into a fucking Wal-Mart, for any reason

How I hope and pray that somebody would say to me that I needed to read the Bible, because I would give them a heapin' helpin' of that good downhome religion that they would NEVER, EVER forget.

But since I don't go into Wal-Marts, I guess I'll never get my chance.

[WilliamPitt]

61. Mace

[Zing Zing Zingbah]

66. People actually did get attacked at the Walmart

in my neighborhood (Orlando, FL) a few weeks ago. At least on person (but think it might have been two) got mugged and shot in the leg while in the parking lot of Walmart. Too many dumb, senseless crimes happen around here.

Speaking of Walmart.... What's with the self-check out lanes? They never have any cashiers so now people have to wait in long lines to just for self-check out. I happen to pretty good at it because I work as a cashier for 4 years, but everyone else seems to take forever to check out just a few things. I guess we have to earn our discounts now. The customer service sucks at Walmart. If I didn't have to be so cheap about groceries, I would never shop there.

[shimmergal]

101. I hate self check-out lanes.

Why should the customer do more work and still pay the same price? (or more?) Run-your-own caredit card gas pumps or devices at the check-out also. It's just a way to make the consumer help add his or her labor to increase the co's profits.

[nini]

67. tell her to get back on her meds and walk away

You owe her nothing and never have to take crap like that from anyone.

[Bake]

68. Tell 'em to go Cheney themselves and walk away.

Don't waste your time.

Bake

[specimenfred1984]

71. Therapists Get Paid a Small Fortune To Deal with Them

It's not your job to fix mentally ill people.

It's a frequent dilema we're all exposed to daily, especially during the last 4 years. Sometimes I share info with them, sometimes I insult the hell out of them, sometimes I ignore them.

Here in Virginia, there are 1000s of "Stepford citizens". It's not my job or yours to "fix" them. Let them stay angry and misinformed if they want to, it's their choice. You can ask them why they are being so insulting and change the subject away from politics but that often doesn't work with abusive types.

The political brainwashing that's going on now is advanced but, there is something about the brainwashed person that allows it to happen, like there is often a reason beneath the drinking an alcoholic suffers from. You can't change that or fix it for them, they've got a lot of work to do themselves for themselves.

It's an amazing thing that's happening now, so many people are deluded.

[underseasurveyor]

72. You could say something like.....Look! If I had any interest what so ever

in wasting my time speaking with the brain-dead, I'll go to a cemetery! Then smile, wave :hi: and say bye-bye :evilgrin:

[Kazak]

73. You were at Walmart?

:shrug:

Guess s/he didn't get the memo...

[HEyHEY]

74. Learn the phrase "Fuck off, jesus hates know-it-alls"

45 - minutes? You stood there for 45 minutes?

[Cha]

81. HeyHey! I couldn't have done it!

And you're right! I bet "Jesus hates know-it-alls".

[Cha]

75. "listening to Rush Lardbutt is like getting your information from Mickey

..Mouse.

BWARAARAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA:D

Yep! That would be enough from what I've heard to send a wingnut Right over the edge!

And you did it!

[Meldread]

83. Yep. That's when she started to fan herself. LOL.

Actually the full and entire quote was: "I don't know why you listen to Rush, he's admitted on more than one occasion that his show is more for entertainment value than informational value. His job is to provide entertainment not political commentary. So getting your political information from Rush is like getting your information from Mickey Mouse."

At that point her eyes got all big like they were about to fall out of her head. Her face got red, not the embarrassed type of red but the insanely pissed type red, and she stood in silence for like 10 seconds. I might as well have sucker punched her, and after that she started to fan herself.

Her response to that was: "I don't care I don’t believe it! John Kerry reminds me of Mickey Mouse but he looks like Lurch!" (Those were her exact words.)

I mean, some people are angry at her and that's understandable. However, I find it hard to be angry at her. I mean, I saw her. I feel sorry for her, I don't hate her. I mean I always assumed, up until today that people like her were like Jerry Falwell. They could speak decently, they could carry on the semblance of rational thought (notice I said semblance not that they were actually capable of it), and that's just not the case. The poor woman has been completely brainwashed. It's sad because she's to a point now where reality as we know it means –nothing- to her. There is only Rush, Fox News and the Church. Anything outside of that is automatically rejected. She's essentially created her own little reality which isn't exactly a pretty place – I mean she can't be happy there. I don't see how it's possible when your full of so much hate and anger.

I just feel sorry for her. *Shrugs* It's like looking at a dog with rabies right before it is being put to sleep. Have you ever seen the movie Old Yeller? It's kinda like that. It isn’t the dogs fault for getting rabies he just got mixed up in something he shouldn't have got mixed up in. She's pretty much the same way – on top of it all she was nearly foaming at the mouth herself. :P

[Cookie wookie]

88. "right before it is being put to sleep.

Have you ever seen the movie Old Yeller? It's kinda like that. It isn’t the dogs fault for getting rabies he just got mixed up in something he shouldn't have got mixed up in. She's pretty much the same way – on top of it all she was nearly foaming at the mouth herself. "


ROFLMAO

[catzies]

79. Start by TAKING BACK THE LANGUAGE. Liberal's not a dirty word

If she enjoys, clean air, clean water and safe products that won't kill her )e.g. airbags and safety belts in cars) she can thank a liberal.

If you concede to them the ground that 'liberal is a dirty word,' you have already lost.

[Cha]

82. Precisely!

[CaTeacher]

86. one time I had a "friend"

attack me on politics. I was so shocked at her crazy beliefs that I just laughed out loud--right in her face. I couldn't stop laughing the entire time she went off like a fool. (I didn't even try to rebut what she said--I was laughing too hard!!)

Anyway--she cut the conversation short--and has never spoken to me again. My bad! I actually have a VERY good sense of humor! Hey laughing is better than fighting! And it didn't raise my blood pressure any--although she was mightily pissed off!!!

Later--I kept thinking that maybe I should have argued with her--tried to explain things. But it isn't really worthwhile when they are hardened in their positions.

[Meldread]

89. That's so true.

I think the only thing that could save someone that far gone, like the lady I encountered, would be to have some type of "intervention". From there you'd have to take her to some de-programming center against her will. Even then it might not be possible to save her.

The woman I encountered... she was... just... just way too far gone. I mean it's like Alice (or Pattie in this case) went down the Rabbit Hole and never came back. ;)

[Cookie wookie]

96. Lost a old friend like that

She went off on me on the phone, then hung up on me . .. and I've never spoken to her since. That's because she sounded like she needed an exorcism. I couldn't believe what right wing venom was spewing from her. It was like another personality that I had never known before. Scary. So, I decided she was a hopeless case and that was that. Even if they are proved wrong a thousand times over, they will always blame someone else.

look at the slow boaters. All history and common sense bears out the truth that the Vietnam War was a horrendous, hideous, monstrous mistake. but look at these guys still trying to defend that war. If only Kerry hadn't come back and testified against the war, they would have won it and we would now own south vietnam....right.

Some people are just too twisted.

I must say, though, with the number of these hopeless cases seemingly so high (if we can believe most of the polls), I've wondered if "They" are using subliminal techniques to deliver their messaging in the media, not that they need to since all the media bows to the bush admin. But, they did use those techniques when Gore was running and it was made into a kind of joke like it was meaningless. I'm not so sure.

http://www.fcc.gov/ftp/Speeches/Furchtgott_Roth/2000/sphfr011.html

[dorktv]

90. If you are Christian, when she said that you need to read the bible

you should have said "I DID, and that is why I am liberal!" I know a lot of right wing christians who get really confused by that.

[Meldread]

91. Well I'm not a Christian...

...mostly because of people like her. :P I just don't want to be associated with those type of people. Although, I actually HAVE read the Bible and think Jesus is a pretty good guy... and that those crazy fools are going to be in a rude awakening if God and Jesus do exist. I can only imagine how pissed Jesus and God is gonna be at all the name dropping and spinning of his works and words. Gotta remember, he threw those money changers outta the temple, so he's been known to get pissed before. :P

I didn't tell her that though because if I did we'd still be there arguing.

[dorktv]

94. To each his own!

The thing about Religion is that it is man-made. The bible is also the Word of God through the pen of man, so I am surprised that it even mentions kindness to the poor and other things that are just plain common sense.

[Meldread]

102. Obviously, if they were....

Obviously, if they were common sense most people would be kind to the poor and their fellow men. Apparently when the Bible was written, and if it was divinely inspired, God figured it wasn't common sense enough. :P

Sure, it's common sense to us because we care about other people and are good natured. However, a lot of other people aren't. They're greedy, cold hearted, bigots and are ruthless. The unfortunate part of it all is that many of them are Christians. What's even more unfortunate about it is that they aren't REALLY Christians at all. They are just wolves in sheep’s clothing. Evil always acts under the guise of goodness and righteousness that is how it subverts others.

I've chosen not to associate myself with Christianity because of the type of people within the religion. There are many good Christians out there, but it seems to me that for every good Christian that there are at least three more bad Christians. It's very disheartening and discouraging, and I don't think these people are inherently bad or evil... just very, very, VERY misguided and brainwashed.

I've taken my view of otherworldly deities beyond the Christian thought. I view God, if there is one, as an infinitely perfect creature that created everything and everyone. We are all connected to it, directly, more like parts of a larger whole... because we cannot *understand* something that created everything -- it's scope and power is too great for our minds to ever understand -- we tend to humanize it. We tend to bring it down to our level of understanding... but can you really ever understand God? Who is God? *WHAT* is God? Where is God? ...in the end I think *WE* are God. I am not saying that we possess the power of a God but are rather apart of it and it apart of us. It is what binds and connects us and makes us one and the only way to understand God -- even remotely understand him -- is to first understand yourself. If you don't understand yourself how can you understand others? If you can't understand others then how can you understand something of a much larger design?

That's how I view God, if there is one. ;) It's the only logical way of looking at it, at least to me, and I don't mean to offend or anything. It's just my personal beliefs. :)

[dorktv]

115. Well Dogbert did say that God will be created when enough

of us are on the internet. But I really should not get spiritual advise from a fictional comic strip character who wants to take over the world. ;)

[lanparty]

92. She was right about ONE thing ...

She DOES need to read her bible and concentrate on the message of Jesus. Then she needs to evaluate whether Dubaya et al ... walks in his path.

I know some REAL Jesus freaks out there. I don't necessarily agree with them. But they WALK THE WALK better than they TALK THE TALK.

Most do more talking than walking. And they're always more interested in YOUR walk then their own.

I would only say that you cannot win an argument. You need to seed doubt without letting her know it's there. Ask questions that are difficult to answer. Force contradictions and then provide a way out by taking your side.

Make sure you don't accuse her of being wrong. That will provoke a defensive reaction. Stress that she is simply misinformed. Stress that she has been lied to and decieved by these people.

[carpetbagger]

95. "Jesus was a socialist hippie".

And I've even heard that he's to the right of God.

(Credit due to Dom Crossan)

[BrooklynRider]

109. Just stand there and calmly call her a "filthy c*nt" over and over.

[nolabels]

111. Just one more reason for me to NOT to shop at Wal-Mart

Thanks for the update

P.s. I try not to debate people like that too much (but it does happen to me also). I just keep in my mind that it's just a lot of hot air and people are just emoting (blowing off steam). So putting too much stock in conversations like that is counter productive. Most people only learn real deep cognitive things in a relaxed state (which she was not).

The best thing I have found is start agreeing with them to the point of patronizing. They then start to be quiet (like any lost child that was just found) at which point you can reason with them (if you want).

[tandot]

112. Loudly ask her if she forgot to take her meds again

and maybe asked her when they released her from that mental institution... :evilgrin:

That is the difference between those right-wing idiots and us. We don't go up to people and harass them for supporting a completely incompetent a**hole. They can believe whatever they want to. I really believe that some of them have serious mental issues.

If you live in a Democracy and you get totally "bat-shit crazy" and feel the urge to loudly verbally attack someone with some right-wing made-up bullshit because he or she has a different political view, you might want to see a Psychiatrist or at least take some anger management classes.

[kerry-is-my-prez]

120. Used to get almost the same thing form my parents but now they sort

of see where I'm coming from - mainly becasue I think they're not that crazy about Bush. Since they're dyed in the wool Repubs - they will still vote for him.

They've also given up on me - it hasn't done any good for them to get all upset about it so they don't bother wasting the energy.

So - maybe there's ome hope for you...