Shut Up, Joe Biden, Shut Up..goddamit, goddamit, shut up.I.. give up

[Starpass]

Do you know why a number of our Democratic politicians are not registered Republicans?---it’s because the repukes wouldn‘t lower themselves to allow such politically ignorant, or political traitors, into their ranks. ..(and I’m getting brain damaged from banging my head on the wall--I just can’t take this shit any longer).

Did ‘ja catch Meet the Press today which featured Joe Biden and John McCain (via satellite from Iraq)??--hell, Joe is on the Meet the Press more than Tiny Tim Russert, I swear....and I’m beginning to figure out why.

Tiny Tim put up “bad for Bush numbers” from the most recent polls. Besides his dive for the bottom in ‘approval’ ratings, he put up really shit numbers regarding Iraq (no duh, it’s what we all predicted BEFORE this war). The stats said things like: 1) now the majority of people want us OUT of Nam--’cuse me, Iraq; 2) only 30% want more money or troops spent on this losing swamp with 70% not wanting any more money or troops spent there; 3) 70% feeling that we are going to be bogged down there forever, etc.,etc. And then our spectacular Dem, Biden, took the mike. Just stay with me, because I can’t sum this up in three sentences.

Joe, who is in love with his own voice, took over and kept even Tim spellbound for endless minutes while a smiling McCain smirked and grinned and enjoyed all the way from Baghdad. Joe preached how we have to spend zillions more on Iraq and send zillions more in troops. He said that Bush HAS to come before the American people on prime time TV and tell them how important this is. He said once the people see this, they will come around and support OUR PRESIDENT. And, Joe even said: “This is what President Bush needs to do to REVERSE those numbers”!!! I mentally put my fist through the screen and choked Biden while I screamed “shut up you fuck, shut the fucking hell up”!!!! And I have good reason to do so.

I’ve seen over the last number of months various talking heads come on and TELL Bush what he has to do in addressing the nation on various situations as the public trust plummets....AND Bush has done so and, thus, taken the monkey off his back. Now envision this with me DUers. I can see Bush coming on tv in prime time this fall right when our Dem candidates are officially launching their campaigns and/or starting their major march to ‘04. He would get FREE tv time and the ‘analysis’ following for not one dime of his $200 million war chest to start HIS run for ‘04. Of course, there will be idiots who will buy into his shit. Thus, I know for certain that the polls following such a speech will indicate that the majority (51%) of Americans want more troops and money spent on Iraq and our own idiot congressmen will vote for it because they are afraid of insulting the “majority”!! It will also show that Bush’s numbers are rising as the public , once again (thank god) rallies around our determined leader!! And that’s why I’m exploding tonight.

Goddamit fucking Biden and those like him!!! The name of the game is to take the numbers of today and make it worse for Bush---not tell Bush how to sway enough voters to get re-elected. And, of course, we could send 10 zillion dollar over there and the entire population of the US of A and we are not going to help these Iraqis one bit. It’s a situation just like the Israeli/Palestinain issue----a no win situation. And it still is about oil which we will never be able to successfully pump without constant blowing up of the pipelines in the region. I cannot believe after the few steps forward that we have made from our candidates trashing Bush that along come our own “guns” to shoot us to hell and put us back to ground zero. I don’t care who you support. All of them, in their own way have made progress in attacking Bush---AND THEN FUCKING THIS!!! Unfortunately, I saw Fenstein later with Wolfe basically saying the same. These fuckers are killing us. How much more difficult now it is for Dems attacking this administration in it’s no post-war strategy to make their case. Goddamn those Dems who are trying to “help” fucking Bush get out of his “unfortunate“ situations. I don’t need this right now folks...I really don’t. And neither do active Dems. I could go on here for 10 pages but no one would listen. What, goddamn it, what are we dealing with. I wish I only had to fight the repukes. I‘m sick of fighting Democrats.......I feel like the Dad that I trusted was really a criminal who killed good people.........know what I mean???? Democrats (of which I’ve been for my adult life and I’m 58 years old), don’t ask me to support ANY of you if you allow this.

[blm]

1. I'd wish stabilization for Iraq and the region

before all else. Bush is going down anyway for many other reasons. If the Dems can say, "George you must do it like this..." in front of a television audience, it only hurts Bush because the Dems have been urging him to do what's right for a while now.

[Starpass]

8. blm--nice, now put on your "political" hat

Do you think that M/M Moron America will know where the "suggestion" cam fron? OF COURSE NOT. It will be "ohhhh, my, god he is so good and brilliant". Now I could go along with it if it helped the Iraqis. But it won't. It's a I/P situation. Bush, who gives six times more fucking no-care shit about an Iraqi (he hates the people of the US of A!!) wouldn't be saying this shit to HELP Iraqis. He would say it to boost his approval ratings and bail his butt out. I ask you this: can the US of A OR the Iraqi people live under four more years of Bush???---he loathes these people as much as he loathes our people. The Dems don't need to HELP these fuckers. They need to replace these FUCKERS in order to have a flying fuck chance in hell of helping the Iraqis by freeing up this oil shit to all nations and thus getting the help of all nations. We want them to help us for nothing while we suck billions and they don't want to go along. Let people have a piece fo the pie of you hope to get this hell hole to work for those poor bastards.

[blm]

9. I know what you mean....

but, I don't believe Bush will get away with it, because he waited too long to do it right. There's WAY too much evidence of that, and the polls are showing it. He's dead politically. Whistle-ass is gone in 2004.

[Fixated]

2. ...

Maybe you should be telling yourself to shut up, since you're wrong and he's right. You want to pull out of Iraq? Do you know what that would do to the country?

[Starpass]

11. Fixatce--try telling yourself to READ

Did I fucking ever say Get the Hell out of Iraq. I said that that is what the "POLL SAID". There are,gee, a few ways to settle Iraq, short of sending a zillion fucking troops and money there...and that has been all OVER political news today. Its fucking called other countries sharing the fanancial and troop burden BUT also sharing in the decision making and government of Iraq. READ first, dear before replying.............money and troops pushed by Biden are NOT the answer BUT they are the answer if you want Bush to pump up his numbers and keep ruling you for 4 more years and how many more countries invaded, etc.

[Fixated]

57. ......

Well, kiddo, you DID seem to imply your support for leaving. Biden is giving his take on what the president should do not to pump him HIS numbers, but to do the right thing in Iraq. You want things to go bad in Iraq solely so Bush loses, however. Also, how old are you? I feel like I'm reading 4th grade essays.

[ElsewheresDaughter]

22. fixated did you take a wrong turn back at the fork in the road?..go away

[Jacobin]

35. Are you suggesting they are better off NOW than they were before???

[Fixated]

58. ...

No, I'm saying that since we fucked it up, we have to fix it.

[SharonAnn]

64. But the problem is, we can't fix it.

eom.

[Old and In the Way]

60. Please tell us what it would do to Iraq if we pulled out.

Of course, another strong arm dictator will take over....if Iraq is to survive as a single nation, force will be needed to keep the country from devolving into chaos.

Which begs the point, is Iraq going to be better off now that we deposed Hussein?

I personally don't know how it could be any worse without US occupation.

[Fixated]

61. ...

Well, we're at least imposing some kind of order. Obviously, we're preventing a dictatorship from rising. Bush needs to pull together a government (obviously this should have been planned before the war)that can at least rule over the military and police to maintain order. It takes a while, in the meantime, we need to be there to be the "police" until a force can be maintained by Iraq itself.

Addition: We're preventing a bloody civil war, the secession of the Kurds, etc.

[IndianaGreen]

66. Why don't you enlist and put your ass where your mouth is?

Then, and only then, you can spout whatever you want about sending someone else's children to die for our beloved SUVs.

[AP]

3. Months ago, one of the broadcast news stations did a profile on

an Iraqi who was lobbying the US gov't to attack Iraq (this was before the invasion). In retrospect, it was probably Chalabi. They showed him doing the lonely (but extremely lucrative) traipsing up and down the corridors of power in DC trying to get people on his side (or, keep them on his side, as he was already receiving millions of US taxpayer money to keep his hopes alive).

They showed him walking down some steps outside the capital building and Biden walked by and gave him a huge smile and handshake. When I saw that, I knew that there was no hope for opposing the invasion.

[caledesi]

4. SP..you are great! Enjoyed this post.

[AP]

5. I also think Biden cut a deal with Republicans to let Thomas get

nominated. They were ready to bring in the corroborating witnesses, and biden wouldn't let them give evidence. Instead, they called a vote, and Thomas got his seat.

[blm]

13. They threatened to drag Hill

out for her "sexual proclivities". That would seal the case against HER as an overly sensitive lesbian who hates ALL men. There was nothing fair about what went down.

[AP]

27. Hill had already testified. They had her corroborating witnesses

lined up for the next day. They would have confirmed everything Hill had said, and would have set her good character in stone. Those were the witnesses who had to be stopped if Thomas was to have any chance at confirmation (with Hill, they could always attack her character, so long as there were no corroborating witnesses).

Biden ended the hearings without calling those witnesses. He cut a deal, I'm sure. Whatever the Dems got then, it wasn't worth losing the election in 2000 because of that vote.

[blm]

29. Of course not.

But, who knew the sharp right turn that the media would make....refusing to do their jobs throughout the 90s and allow the presidency and democracy itself, to be stolen.

[KoKo]

65. AP you are correct!!!! I was up until 2:00a.m. with the last hearing

where the corroborating witness for Anita Hill was kept waiting thinking that Biden would call her as witness (that's why I stayed up so long) and he cancelled her.....left her hanging. It was later proved in a well documented book by I blieve Jill Abramson and a partner that this woman was correct. (Unfortunately time had lost her name to me....but it was a big deal at the time with female viewers and the "women's movement" was much stronger then than now).

Thanks for bringing this up!

[G_j]

67. those of us who watched the Iran-Contra

hearings, remember Biden lobbing 'softballs', essentially enabling the cover-up/white-wash. He strikes me as a repug. pretending to be a Dem.
He's beyond the pale.

Oh and didn't he have something to do with the recent "rave act"?
He is a disgrace!

[cherryperry]

55. Are you serious?

"sexual proclivities" ... "overly sensitive lesbian"

As Jon Stewart of The Daily Show would say, "Whaaaaaaaaaa"?

[chaumont58]

6. It's the problem with too much time inside the beltway

The brain just fuckin' rots. Biden would rather kiss the beltway whores ass than eat candy. There is no repukelican ass he wouldn't kiss. Joe and Holy Joe live in their own world, safe from reality. And this son of a bitch was weighing running for president as a Democrat? God, it boogles the mind.

[UpstateNYDem]

7. I know....

I know this may sound alien to some on this board, but perhaps Joe Biden wants to see us succeed in rebuilding Iraq.

May Joe's aim was to put the safety of the American troops and the stability of Iraq first, rather then politics. Just a thought though.

[papau]

14. I saw Joe's interview today - simple logic - good logic - and I do not

like Bidden for his habit of excusing GOP wrongs - a pink tutu Dem

but today he was jusy offering good advice.

[kentuck]

16. You may be right....

I think a lot of these Repub "sympathizers" rationalize that they are doing what is best for the country, not wht is best for their Party. The people will see them for the patiots that they see themselves. However, the worst thing for this nation is to have to go thru 4 more years of this Administration. In the big picture, they are not "patriots". They are screwing all of us.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

19. Sure he does..sure. That's why he voted to destroy it.

"We had to burn down the village in order to save it."

The same idea worked well in Vietnam...didn't it?

[burr]

26. If he was putting the safety of the troops & the stability of Iraq first,

why vote for the War Resolution? There would of been no troops endangered, no instability caused by a war, and no need to rebuild a nation..which we tore down in the first place!

In other words, each of those objectives would already be achieved.

[eleny]

28. I'm reading him in an entirely different way

If Bush goes before the American people and tells us that it's going to take a kajillion more dollars and several more years and how many more lives, we'd impale him on a tall stick. This is Biden's way of telling the public what's up.

A few weeks ago, I was watching Biden at the Senate committee raking Wolfowitz over the coals. Telling him to cough up some numbers quick. Wolfowitz tried to look dismissive but Biden wouldn't have it. He looked at Wolfy, pointed his finger at him and treated him like an errant child. It's time members of Congress acted like they had some authority over what happens in this country.

How can Bush tell us the "truth"? He hasn't had any practise with it. He's a slip sliding, glad handing party frat boy who knows best how to get over without really doing anything of substance. Rove wouldn't know how to spell the word so he could look up its meaning in the dictionary.

Biden threw down a challenge that Bush can't possibly accept. Like him or not for any other reason. But today, Biden was taking advantage of the president being on the hot seat these days. Bush will never come out and tell us the real truth. You know this.

[Starpass]

36. eleny--don't think that what you said didn't go through my mind, often

yes, I kept looking at him and thinking "ahhh, there is a poltical ploy here". But if they think it is, they are so goddamn wrong. As I said in my post..I know what it is like for the asshole to take primetime and address the Amurekan people. That WILL get enough percentage to change their view and our fucking idiot Dem elected officials will read those numbers in the poll, freak out and vote for what Bush wants. It's still a ploy that helps Bush at home; does shit for the Iraqis and gets us four more years of Bush that will rip the gizzard out of average Americans and destroy Iraq.

[eleny]

42. I respectrfully disagree

The Dems will never vote for what Bush wants this next time around. What they want now is for him to go to the U.N. and to give up some of the U.S. control.

We're outnumbered in congress. But will the R's want to own ramping up our efforts by slim margin votes? They know they can be elected more times than Bush. Most of them want to make a career of Congress. In the end, it's every scumbag for themselves. He'll lose votes from his side of the aisles, IMO.

Time will tell, as usual. But I like how for the past month, Biden has been goading Bush to go before the American people knowing how Bush hates to do that. It's like a sharp needle right in the eye.

Take care,
Eleny

[linazelle]

54. I agree Eleny

They've been trying to keep the qWAGmire in Iraq on the DL (down low). Bushco's vacation, and the media's attention on Zsa Zsa Saddam and the like have done that to a degree but the problems still keep surfacing.

Bush has few choices left for addressing Iraq: he can either give up control to the UN; open up the draft or withdraw, basically. The only real choice of the three is to go to the UN--and thank God the UN is not caving.

So for Bush to go before the country and announce any of the above plans regarding Iraq would only heighten awareness of his failure. I see it a losing proposition for Bushco--even though Biden may not have intended it that way.

[Name removed]

37. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[dansolo]

48. But he shouldn't express it in terms

Of how Bush can improve his poll numbers. He could very easily address the issues about rebuilding Iraq without even refering to the political issues. Joe Biden shouldn't be giving advice to Bush on how to win the 2004 election.

[Starpass]

49. Dansolo--THAT is exactly what drove me up the wall and made me

post this tonight. I could have "bobbleheaded" along until THAT statement. WHY the fuck do we want to help "the poor, misunderstood" el presidente find a means to turn public opinion around?.. (and what, Joe, boost his approval and fuck our Dems??). That's when I, mentally, spit in his face. Godddddamn him and all like him.

[Gloria]

10. Did anybody see Richard Holbrooke on with Zahn a few nights ago??

He told her the way out. He said it wouldn't take months and years, either.
Holbrooke says that we should get the Norwegians to head an international stabilizing force, NO BLUE HATS (no UN). He believes the Norwegians have had a good working relationship with the Iraqis and others in the region for a long time and as part of NATO, they have experience.

Of course, Bush would never consent to anything like this--a third party coming in with the sole interest of the Iraqi people at heart....

[blm]

18. I think Holbrooke

will be the next Secretary of State.

[Starpass]

20. Gl;oria--I did see that

It's hard to present that here because you had to see it to understand. In other words, we are fucking poision over there and these people do have an honest realtionship to build on. That is what an intelligent President would call upon in this new "Nam"--people who can garner trust among the people.

[blm]

24. In that region it is all about the "honest broker"

and that is why King Hussein of Jordan appreciated Bill Clinton so much.

[burr]

12. Somehow this doesn't surprise me.

Feinstein was one of the Shrivercrats who voted for shrub's taxcut in 2001. Since the 2000 election Feinstein has been in bed with the adminstration, and has enjoyed every minute of it!

Biden is a stranger case. He comes from a solidly Democratic state, seemed more liberal in the 80's and 90's...and now supports sacrificing our soldiers and defense dollars for shrub's personal political gain.

I would support Greens over these sellouts in any election!

[KG]

15. further evidence

that the dem party is a wholly owned subsidiary of the RNC.

till the DP gets its act together and shows solidarity as an opposition party to the repooks, they can continue to expect to be bitch slapped at the polls. and rightfully so.

[leftofthedial]

17. Biden has been in the Senate too long

He makes George Dubya Shitforbrains look smart and Joe Lieberman look progressive.

[0007]

21. I bet Robert Byrd, if he was watching

was doing cartwheels, flip flops, hand springs, belly rolls and doing his Sunday cussing. Cuz I sure was.

[Starpass]

31. 0007--could you explain

I'm not shitting on you--I just didn't quite understand what you just said. I would assume that Byrd would be pissed at this "trying to save Bush's ass" act. Is that what you are saying. Or are you saying that Byrd would approve of Biden's wanting to throw more money and troops into this for the salvation of George. Sorry, honey, it's getting near this old boad bedtime and she gets confused.

[bpilgrim]

33. i took it as he must've been PI$$ED!

unless they 'GOT TO' him, too :evilgrin:

peace

[bpilgrim]

32. he better chill cause we REALLY need him!

:hi:

how come they NEVER have him on any of the PROGRAMMING ;->

peace

[IndianaGreen]

23. The Beltway Democrats have hopped on the escalation bandwagon

as they did back in 1965 when they voted to expand America's military involvement in Vietnam.

Every escalation of ours was subsequently matched by the Vietnamese.

The end result will be the same: an American defeat and another marble monument with the names of the fallen, names of people that should have never died in the first place!

[Jacobin]

38. Yup. We are screwed

More body bags, will still lose in the end.

They don't want us there. It's simple.

[aquart]

39. If we escalate, every warrior age Muslim male on the planet

Will make his way to Iraq.

And they won't be wrong.

[AlinPA]

25. Joe Biden usually sounds like a Bush supporter.

"Patriotic"

[bpilgrim]

30. the establishment are all for the regime change and making over iraq

in our image and are therefore 'concerned' at the mess the neo-cons are making of it and are besides themselves to get bush with the 'program' as biden has been demonstrating for months...

how do they decide who gets to go on these shows? just the heads of the various commitiees?

this is what passes these days as the 'dissenting' opinion... it is a very sad indicator - and there are PLENTY more and PLENTY worse - of how far right this contry's political establishment is.

our last hope will be the ellections upcomming... but then there is the shadow of 12-12-00 and unauditable ballot boxes with LARGE RW connections.

it is certainly hard to keep hope alive when you take it all in but i know that WE ARE EVERYWHERE :bounce:

http://radio.globalfreepress.com/play.php?do=play&val=25

i hear ya :hi:

peace

[whathappened]

34. i'v seen so much of this b.s.

since jr. stole the office from gore , it makes me mad beyond what it should in life , use to be a dem was a dem and you could see it with out a road map , now i just don't no who is who anymore in d.c. , if i was there anything jr. had to offer up i would be yelling at the top of my lungs , wtf happened in d.c. to get all these ass kissing dems to go to the dark side and vote for jr. b.s. , we have been sold down the drain to the gop , i think most of these suckers we have in d.c. need to be send packing and a brand new shiney bunch of true dems brought in in 2004

[spooky3]

40. polls

Not to oversimplify this, but maybe we would see a lot of change in their behavior if the * poll #s keep going down. I think the Congresspeople are terrified that Joe and Betty Sixpack will throw them out of office if they don't behave like ersatz Republicans.

[whathappened]

47. why would'nt

they not think how proud we would be of them for standing up for our rights as dems and how we think the country should be run , all my life the dems stood for there own way of the way things shuld be done in this country and still hearing the voices of the gop gang and there needs to , right now we just have the gop voice ringing in our ears and the dems just standing there saying ya , ya , ya , ya

[Iluvleiberman]

41. This guy wanted to be president

but I guess he didn't want to be Lieberman lite.

[imhotep]

43. Also

regardless of what is right or wrong, I can not STAND to hear any piece of shit politician go on tv and scold the public as if we are children. Biden you fucking turd, shut your damn cake hole.

[scarletwoman]

44. Biden is a long time CFR guy...

"Council on Foreign Relations", in case someone here doesn't know. He works for the "Owners of the World".

The Owners of the World all wanted Iraq, they merely have some disagreements over tactics.

Insiders like CFR people are far far removed from the petty concerns of the peasantry -- there's an Empire to mold and sustain. Party labels mean nothing, politicians are either working for the Owners or working for the People.

And damn few work for the People anymore, damn few...

sw

[Iluvleiberman]

46. One World Government?

I always wondered how certain outlaw regimes would one day be unified into a one world government. Bush is doing it for them, eh? Taliban, Iraq, NK, Libya, Iran.
Scary.

[scarletwoman]

51. I'm talking about U.S. global hegemony

The absolute control of the planet's resources by the military-industrial complex corporate imperialists -- the big interconnected money people at the top who have been manipulating our foreign entanglements since WWII and earlier. The predatory capitalists who will not rest until they "own" the very air we breathe, whose will is enforced by the most well-funded military machine the world has ever seen.

It makes no difference whether you are an Iraqi peasant or a U.S. peasant, the aim of the Owners is feudalism -- all of humanity in bondage to the Masters.

sw

[Iluvleiberman]

52. Okay. Got it n/t

[Robin Hood]

45. I saw that fucking moron on MTP before the war.

And he was on the WMD kick. Going on and on with his Bush speak. remind me again, which side is he on?

Biden needs to go Bye, bye.

[Iluvleiberman]

50. No he doesn't

We still need his seat in the Senate.

[Oilwellian]

62. I've been suspicious of Biden

Especially since learning he was one of those officials who met with Pakistan's ISI General Ahmed in DC on the same morning of 9/11. This is the man who wired Atta $100 grand just a few weeks before 9/11. If Biden or anyone else in this government were truly intent on catching "terrorists," then why did they allow Ahmed to quietly resign instead of immediately demanding his arrest for funding those who perpetrated 9/11? That has NEVER made sense to me.

[WilliamPitt]

53. No one watches these shows

except people like us.

[JI7]

68. people whose minds already made up

yup. most people do n't even know there are a 100 senators and who joe biden is. it's like you are living on a totally different world when talking to certain people who know nothing about these things.

[Starpass]

56. Starpass here--just picked this up on Latest Breaking--kinda sums it up

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=584&ncid=584&e=2&u=/nm/20030824/pl_nm/security_bush_dc

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - As the 2004 election nears, President Bush could face an international "perfect storm" -- more attacks in Iraq and Afghanistan, an overextended deployment of U.S. troops eager to come home and blackening clouds over the Middle East, North Korea and Iran.
Perhaps Biden had stuff like this in mind (and pocket): (a quote from an article presently on our Latest Breaking Board>

More compelling to the White House, perhaps, may be the stance of William Kristol and Robert Kagan, neo-conservatives who helped create the intellectual climate that propelled Bush's decision to overthrow Saddam Hussein.

In The Weekly Standard, which Kristol edits, they warned that the future of U.S. world leadership and security is at stake in Iraq but Bush has "failed to commit resources to the rebuilding of Iraq commensurate with these very high stakes."

There are too few U.S. troops and too little money committed to Iraq and another $60 billion and two army divisions are needed, they said.

"This is the time to bite the bullet and pay the price. Next spring, if disaster looms, it will be harder. And it may be too late," they wrote.

[molly]

59. What is your solution? Pretend you are in charge.

[KoKo]

63. If you saw the Dean interview you would feel better. He trashed the DLC

insiders who are in cahoots with each other. He said it loud and clear for all to hear. A shot across the bow of the Washington Beltway Insider crew of which Biden is the gold star member. We have Biden to thank (???) for Clarence Thomas on the Supreme Court. He is a Whore of Whores to me in the Congress.......and there's no one who comes close to him for being the Democratic Whore on the Sunday shows. Daschle is back home trying to keep his Senate Seat so I guess he's not to be heard from........but even when he wasn't "back home" Biden has been "Our Supposed" Mouthpiece on all these shows.

Dean stuck it to them all.... Don't put Dean or Kucinich in the same category as the other Dems running they have taken a chance and gone all out to stand up for Democratic ideals and values.

The rest of them (with some exceptions: Levin, Byrd, Dorgan,Kennedy come to mind.....and many in the House) can take a hike as far as I'm concerned. Too anxious to hold onto their corporate lobby money and cull favor with the media whores who help them keep it.