Iraq, we knew, why didn't most of Washington?

[cidliz2004]

I'm tired of hearing people like Chris Matthews say that "no one" knew that Saddam really wasn't an "imminent" threat, and that most of the "world" believed that Saddam had WMD AND that w really thinks that he did the right thing! I have heard sarcasm directed at guests when they say that they knew it was wrong going into Iraq. I know that they are probably trying to save face, but come on, most of the American People and the media were behind this war.

Some of us weren't. Were we such geniuses(?) that we truly saw what most others didn't. OR was it that everybody more less fell in line (including media) and WANTED to believe in the president?

I used to scream at the T.V. when the votes went through to w the authorization to go to Iraq, I used to scream at the T.V. when w got on T.V. and used his "rah rah sis koom bah" bullshit, I used to scream at the closed mouths of the media when they had opportunities to question this war.

I am not a political science major, I am not a college graduate, I didn't even pay much attention to politics (too busy raising a family and working) until the 90's. When I did start paying attention, it was limited. I still caught onto the Chaney,Rumsfield,Wolf Doctrine of Pre emption" and how w embraced it as his own. I saw it coming a mile away. I knew that the Iraq war was opening a Pandora's box. I knew that it was based on lies....out and out lies. Kerry won't even admit to that! I also realize, that we went there to establish a permanent base and presence in the Middle East. Nobody is talking about that. WHY??????

How come dumb me, knew this? How come, our countries leaders did not? Can anyone give me a clear answer to this?

The world pretty much let us know how they felt about this, yet the Washington leaders just ignored the world and many of us, why?

By, the way, I understand JK not backing down on his vote of giving w the authority to go to the UN with the power to go to war....someday JK might need that same type of authority, and if he voted against it, even knowing now what he knows, he is saying that the President of the United States should not have that authority PERIOD. JK believes that the President should have that authority, just not THIS PRESIDENT.

[The_Casual_Observer]

1. DU is like the gathering of people in " Close Encounters"

who knew WTF was going on. A good number could see right through the obvious subterfuge, starting around the time of the troop buildup in Kuwait and relocation of CENTCOM under the guise of a grand "training exercise". After that, the propaganda and lie machine went into 1st gear, and it has never let up.

[cidliz2004]

6. Why then, aren't more people coming out against the war

People in Washington and the media? As the obvious FARCE that it is, aren't our soldiers lives more important than a career? No, I'm not kidding.....How could I go to work and support something that I know is directly resulting in deaths of innocent people? I couldn't and I don't understand how "good" people go to work and support this administration's war and defend him either by covering for him/them or not accurately reporting FACTS. The people that I am referring to are the Washington Insiders, barely insiders, residers and the media - the media that is still holding this Administrations hand.

Am I to believe that the "game" and winning are more important than anything else? Is this how low human life has sunk to?

[The_Casual_Observer]

7. It can only be attributed to some sort of mass psychological

trauma caused by 9/11 and extended by the media and the administration for their own purposes. How else could any of this madness be justified?

People are deathly afraid of being attacked in the manner of 9/11.

People are afraid of a sudden and profound upheaval of their comfortable way of life by outside forces due to energy shortages.

With this in mind it is fairly easy to see why many Americans have no problem at all sending some faceless anonymous marine to die in Iraq
for their "freedoms".

[Nordic]

11. God that's funny and oh so true

I had to laugh

[Eric J in MN]

2. I didn't support invading Iraq, either.

I think the theory in Washington was that the 2002 elections were coming up, so polticians had to prove how patriotic they are by voting for war.

(Yes, they didn't vote for war, just to give a bloodthirsty Bush the authority to go to war.)

[cidliz2004]

3. Good Thoughts,

I never connected the 2002 elections and wanting to appear patriotic. Too bad, they didn't worry about being stupid and careless.

[wtmusic]

4. Bravo!

I hear ya.

Watching CNN parade us into war put me in shock. Still in it.

[Elwood P Dowd]

5. I've lived through so many wars

that I'm skeptical from the get-go. I remember listening to my father in the early 50s talking about the Korean War as we listened to the reports on that old tube type radio (we didn't get a TV until about 1957). Then we all know about Vietnam. After the Gulf War, we find out that Bush 41 basically made it happen. As soon as Iraq came up, it was "here we go again". That's when I found the PNAG documents while searching around on the internet. So I've lived through four wars, and at least three of them should have been avoided.

[Seldona]

8. Let me ask you this.

How did you KNOW? I mean what concrete evidence did you base your decision on?

I, along with most other Democrats including Howard Dean, wanted to believe our president.

We gave him the benefit of the doubt, and I do not for one second feel one bit of regret in that.

I did alot of searching on my own as well, concerning the WMD claims.

And while I came up with some information that this was all a lie, for the most part what was out there supported *Bush's claims.

Also I believe I was in sort of a daze after 9/11.

I really believe I has some sort of post traumatic stress syndrome or something.

I could not function for weeks afterwards.

So perhaps my vision was clouded.

But after 9/11, and with their lies so convincing, I bought into it.

I mean they said they KNEW where they were!

That and I simply had no idea just how far these fundamentalists were willing to go.

There really is no precident for what they did, at least that I am aware of.

So in short, I lacked any serious evidence that what *Bush said was wrong, and I wanted anyone who had anything to do with 9/11 dealt with.

Hell, I still do.

Which is one of the reasons I feel so betrayed by this administration.

They are wasting our time, and creating more of a problem, with thier actions in Iraq.

And that to me, outside the tens of thousands of dead and tortured, is the greatest crime this administration has commited.

They have left us open to more attacks, and increased those that wish to cause us harm all the while ignoring those that actually did attack us.

I will stop babbling now and put on my flame suit.

Sure, I may have been a rube.

But at least I am openminded enough to change, and honest enough to admit it.

Thanks for asking.

Spelling edit

[cidliz2004]

10. The fact that Chaney, Rumsfield and Wolfowitz

wanted to go after Saddam in 91 and 41 said "No", then again the group approached Clinton in 98', Clinton said "No".

The Doctrine of Pre Emption, rejected by 41 and embraced as his own 43'

Bush was as dumb as a box of rocks when he ran and became President, he knew NOTHING of FP. The brains of FP were Chaney, Rumsfield and Wolf....Powell was a token totally for display

Bush was obviously put in as a candidate because he was "the kind of guy that you would like to have a beer with" Repubs wanted someone that people liked, someone "Clinton like" Republican Style. Of course without the brains. Bush was a puppet, the front man. I knew this right off, you just had to watch the man to know that he wasn't going to really be in charge of the White House. He didn't know enough. Daddy's staff moved right back into the WH and promptly tried to wipe clean any evidence of the "Clinton Years".

We were attacked by Osamma and Al Queda, NOT SADDAM. BIGGEST CLUE!!!

Inspectors were in Iraq, Bush had gotten them back in and actually had to get them out before the bombing started. Inspectors were in there!!!! They could have increased the amount of inspectors and sent "support troops" in thier with the inspectors to the sites where the WMD were seen and told Saddam if their search were impeded there would be force used to complete the inspection. (Even Gary Hart suggested this), but no, Bush WANTED the war (Or rather his staff)WANTED this war.

The world was against this war, massive demonstrations all over, why were we so arrogant that we thought that we were the only ones that had the correct answer to this question?

We had to alienate many of our allies to get into this war and we had nhardly any support from our traditional allies.

The question was, should be go to Iraq? The bigger question was "The Doctrine of Pre Emption". Was the U.S. going to change is philosophy and act unilaterally when deemed necessary? Was the U.S. dropping out of International Cooperation? That was the real question.

Those are most of the reasons why I was so opposed to the war. Yes, most felt and sensed BEFORE the 1st bomb was dropped. I watched Bush carefully orchestrate his argument to go to war and over a period of months I watched his dance with the American Public in getting their support little by little, until the big crescendo at the State of the Union when he sealed the deal.

Yes, it was purposely crafted and I knew, not from cold hard evidence but from circumstancial evidence and my gut. My gut never lies.

Don't feel bad, most people got pulled in. My question goes to the Washington Insiders, Politicians and the media..they knew as much as I did and a lot more. Why did they stand by and let this administration corral us into a bogus war?

Not too many of them spoke out and unfortunately, their silence cost America too many lives.

[Seldona]

13. Okay, seems we were on about the same page.

My support for the war in Iraq fell off before the first bomb dropped.

I cannot recall exactly, but it was about the time that *Bush backed off on going back to the UN to get the war resolution that I really had major doubts.

And that led me to investigate further.

As just a normal guy, I really looked to the government to handle the 9/11 situation honestly.

And though I cannot really believe it as I type this, that DID include preemption as well as dealing with Saddam.

I surely didn't know all I know now.

Anyway it is a valid question, and one that I feel must be asked.

But for me anyway my anger does not lie in the fact that so many supported this war in the beginning.

It was the sheer amount of lieing that went on, and the fact that these people really are doing the exact OPPOSITE of what the war on terror calls for imho.

I still get pissed every time I think about it.

[Nordic]

12. I'll tell you how I knew

1. Saddam was not suicidal. He had never shown any inkling of being suicidal. The man was all about survival, nothing else, like Stalin. If he had attacked the US with WMD's, that would have been suicide. So even if he had WMD's -- WHO CARES? He was never gonna use them on the US for cryin' out loud.

2. When the inspectors were in Iraq, the US kept saying they knew EXACTLY where weapons were stashed. But they wouldn't TELL the fucking inspectors. Why? They made some lame-ass excuse about "revealing their sources" or some such nonsense. But all they had to do was point the inspectors to ONE, just ONE stockpile of WMD's and they could have made their case.

3. The big fucking hurry. We destroyed Saddam's army over ten years ago. We've contained him. Colin Powell admitted he was contained and that he wasn't a threat to anybody in 2001. Then suddenly, out of nowhere, he's this big, hideous boogeyman ready to attack us (suicidally I might ad). THAT did not make ANY rational sense whatsoever.

4. Powell's speech to the UN. In not one instance did he prove anything in his speech if you listen to it. It was 100% hot air. And I did listen to it very carefully and with an open mind. Back then I really wanted to respect Powell. Check it out, you'll see what I'm talking about.

5. The language they were all using. It was obviously an attempt to connect Iraq with 9/11 and it was blatant attempts at using language, and not facts, to do so.

6. Motive. Revenge for a supposed assassination attempt against his Daddy. A desire to "finish" his Daddy's job. Dick Cheney's Halliburton. Oil Oil Oil.

7. More motive. A desire to get out of Saudi Arabia. Have a permanent military presence smack dab in the middle of the oil fields.

Most of our politicians in Washington are not leaders, they are FOLLOWERS. They pander, and they pander to US, to the media, and the big swinging dicks in town. They are terrified of losing face, and they all took the cowardly way out by supporting the invasion.

There's an old saying "it is easier to apologize than to get permission".

In this case, they all figured if they were wrong, they could apologize later. And that's EXACTLY what's happening. "oh, gosh, we didn't know! Hell, EVERYbody thought Iraq was a threat!"

It's easy to say NOW. So easy. They are cowards and we should vote every last one of the fuckers out of Washington and send their sons and daughters to Iraq.

[hansolsen]

9. Keep in mind that Tweety Bird voted for Shrub in 2000, and pretty much

hopped on the war bandwagon from the beginning on Hardball. His demographics for the show leaned toward the war, and Tweety seemed to buy the WMD lies, hook, line and sinker. Tweety isn't too bright, IMO. Chris may have opposed the war on technical grounds in some of his writing, but on Hardball, he did a great Fox News imitation.

As for the American people, a small majority, but nevertheless, a majority, opposed the war, back when Kerry voted for the IWR, and continued to oppose it right up until Powell's speech at the U.N. Then public opinion became about split on the war until Shrub let the dogs of war lose. Then the usual patriotic war furvor took over, and with troops in combat, and embedded reporters leading the nightly news with acts of American bravery and prowess, public opinion turned strongly in favor of the war, for about a month. Then it leveled off and has been going south ever since.

Tweety and the rest of the great vaunted American media that went along with the Bush lies on WMD will go down with Bush when Bush goes down, and they know it. That is one of the dirty little secrets that prevents the guilty media bigfoots from climbing on the Kerry bandwagon. Tweety licked Bush's boots, and he can't get the taste out of his mouth.

The Bush lies on WMD were apparent at the time to anyone paying attention. It was the clearest case of the Emperor's New Cloths fairy tale come to life in my experience on this earth. That WMD Emperor had no clothes and it was apparent Bush was naked as a jay bird. Only damn fools said otherwise -- unfortunately many of them were Democrats, and far too many of them were early DU supporters of John kerry.

[calimary]

14. I've asked myself that same question - if I knew - little ol' me here in

L.A. going to karate class and making stuff and driving my kids all over kingdom come, and just reading and researching and studying from the internet - and I knew it was a bad idea, WHAT in God's Sweet Loving Merciful Name were our so-called "leaders" doing, and why were their heads so far up their butts?

I mean, if I knew it was wrong, why didn't they? Or if they willfully and wickedly refused, wasn't there ONE person of credibility and reason and sufficiently media-magnetic that we could have stopped this? I feel like I've been at the wrong end of a runaway train for four long, arduous, miserable, frustrating, hair-tearing, heart-breaking years.

I don't understand it.

I will NEVER understand it.