Some Kerry-supporting, Nader-bashing DU'ers actually support Bush

[info being]

That's right. Your condescending, smug attitude against Nader supporters partially explains the support he's getting.

While your arguments are technically right, you care more about being right than being effective. You alienate the most pure and ideological base of what would be the Democratic Party and turn many would-be Kerry supporters into Naderites. You need to get over your predjudices and reach out to this critical group. But your need to be right in your argument trumps any desire to be effective...effective in actually changing the Naderite's mind. So, in effect, you are just like the Naderite and you are indirectly supporting Bush.

I understand your frustration. I share it. We need to get Bush out of office and your position is correct. But Naderites are correct about a lot of things too.

Start from a position of empathy and respect...even if you are dealing with an 18 year old...their feelings and opinions are just as valid as yours. When you gain someone's trust they are much more likely to listen.

[Trajan]

1. ah ....

so: saying Nader is a 'two timing no-good scoundrel and a pot-licking piece-of-trash son-of-a-bitch' automatically makes people want to forget about the ruination of america by Bush and the GOP and LEAP heroically onto the forlorn 'Nader' bandwagon ?? ...

uh huh ....

BTW ? ... Nader can go fuck himself .....

And I even like Nader ...

[Name removed]

2. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Trajan]

3. chuckles ....

Im a big ole meanie ! ...

That's right ... a BIG ole Meanie ! ...

BOO !

[info being]

4. And an ineffective one at that. We need you to step up.

[Trajan]

10. OK ....

THATS it ....

I'm tellin my momma ....

[Zero Gravitas]

5. Enjoy your "ideological purity"

during the next four years of corporate fascism if Bush gets in again.

[info being]

7. Enjoy your smugness during those same 4 years.

[Zero Gravitas]

19. LOL

A Naderite accusing people who live in the real world of being "smug". Hilarious.

[info being]

27. Calling me a Naderite. Hilarious.

[democracyindanger]

6. "You alienate the most pure and ideological base..."

Now who's being condescending? What's so pure and ideological about supporting somebody who gladly takes money and help from the GOP?

Feh.

[info being]

8. If you said something like that from a position of empathy...

you'd probably change someone's mind.

[K-W]

11. Many do.

The fact that you choose just to hear the messages that bother you is your fault.

[info being]

14. I'm not talking to those people. I'm talking to the ineffective ones...

who are making themselves known on threads like these.

[K-W]

24. So dems need to bend over backwards to be nice to nader supporters.

Your point is silly. It is just a way to disguise a dig at anti-nader people as a plea for civility.

[info being]

28. If you want more votes for Kerry, yes.

If you just wanna be right and be smug about it, do whatever you want.

[K-W]

35. Would you stop being so hostile and insulting.

Alot of nader supporters are NEVER going to vote for Kerry. Some can be convinced through being nice. Some can be convinced through strong arguments.

You dont have a point here. You havent had a point all thread, youve simply been insulting and hostile. Some people are angry at Nader supporters. Some Nader supporters are angry ad Kerry supporters. Welcome to humanity my friend. Now stop whining because not everyone expresses themeslves the exact same way that you do.

[info being]

38. I'm being far less hostile and insulting than many of you are to Naderites

And you see how well it works.

[K-W]

41. You are being less hostile than a rabid dog too, So what?

You arent proving anything other than you are unreasonable.

[info being]

44. Define unreasonable.

[K-W]

48. www.dictionary.com

If you truely started this thread in a misguided attempt to manipulate people to prove your point you should be ashamed of yourself.

[info being]

52. No, I actually hoped that people would just admit the obvious

Everyone here just got all twisted up like a Bush supporter, trying to argue a position that is indefensible.

[K-W]

55. I know you think that is true.

The problem is you are wrong. You dont have a point. And you are the one who is twisted up arguing the silly point.

[democracyindanger]

30. No, I'd get a lecture about

how Kerry is just another "corporatist, war-loving blah blah blah" and how "we need a 3rd party" and "now's a good time as any to start one" and maybe "another 4 years of Chimpy will wake people up."

I have a simpler plan: Count Nader voters as hardcore Bush voters. They both want the same thing--the destruction of the Democratic Party. Any time wasted trying to convince a Naderite or a Freeper is better spent trying to convince a non-voter that they should do their duty on Nov. 2. And much more likely to succeed.

[Generator]

49. You nailed it.

"Any time wasted trying to convince a Naderite or a Freeper is better spent trying to convince a non-voter that they should do their duty on Nov. 2. And much more likely to succeed."

There is a point where effort to convince someone is futile. A true Naderite that does nothing but bitch about Kerry is about the same as a fundie Bushbot.

If you can't figure out that a vote for Nader is a vote for Bush or that a vote for Bush is not in your best interests as an American, well, cio baby. Let's work on those that have got it figured out and only need a little help-here's where to register-to get the vote out.

Let's stop suffering fools.

[info being]

54. Good point. And, thus, we need to stop ranting about Nader.

[K-W]

9. And no Nader supporter ever said anything nasty about democrats.

Im sure.

[info being]

15. So can't we be better than that?

WTF?

[sangh0]

18. We could be better than that

FOr one thing, we could stop calling other people "Bush supporters"

Oh wait!!! That was *YOU*!!

[info being]

32. Ah, finally somebody calls me out on the obvious.

I realize that I'm using techniques very similar to the one's I'm criticizing. And look how well it's working. I've alienated everyone on this board despite the fact that I'm right. I've made my point by being utterly ineffective! And that's the approach many people are using to win the battle against Nader!

[K-W]

37. You give yourself too much credit.

Another likely explenation for the tone of this thread is that your ideas arent good and your tone is abrassive.

[info being]

40. It would be kind of you to point out where the idea isn't good.

[K-W]

43. Your assumption that Nader supporters are convertable

is wrong. Some may be, most of them cant

[info being]

46. Everyone is convertable. As I explained, I was one and I've converted.

[K-W]

51. lol, well I feel ive proven my point

If you honestly think that your a bit out of touch with reality.

[info being]

56. What are you talking about? I'm all ears.

[K-W]

29. Here is your problem, and why you are being unreasonable.

If your post was:

I think that in the debate between Nader supporters and democrats, people often get to emotional or severe and end up alienating the other side.

I dont think anyone would have disagreed with you.

But instead you single out Kerry supporters. As if somehow it is all thier fault that Nader supporters support nader, and that is the case you have been making.

[info being]

36. Look, if you aren't a person who is condescending to Naderites...

I wasn't talking to you. If you take offense, you're probably guilty (hence the first word in my title SOME Kerry supporters).

[K-W]

39. I dont need you judging me or anyone else.

You are being horribly condescending to all those who dont see the "true" way you see. Now why dont you cope with the fact that you may not know the perfect way to do things.

[info being]

42. Now you know how Naderites feel when Dems are the same way.

[K-W]

45. I knew that before, thanks for the useless thread.

If you honestly think youve done anything other than annoying people with this thread, you are mistaken.

[info being]

47. Thanks for the useless post.

[K-W]

53. When in rome.

[Vickers]

58. *ahem* This is a DEMOCRATIC site

Jeebus, you been around awhile...I figure you might've noticed that by now.
:eyes:
Who gives a flying fuck what "Naderites" think on a forum designed to espouse Democrat views? I certainly don't.

[Cheswick2.0]

50. condescending to Naderites....lol

I think you got that backwards.

[Vickers]

12. I take zero blame for any support Nader gets

Not now, not in 2000, not ever. He can go fuck himself, along with folks who make half-assed attempts to make me feel guilty about my politics.

[info being]

16. Do you think people set out to make you feel guilty?

See I think their feelings are as valid as mine and deserve respect.

[Vickers]

33. Sure! Doesn't work, though...I don't have a conscience.

It's beautiful, baby!

Also, nobody's feelings are as valid as mine. I have no way of validating the opinion of others, I just have to rely on what they say, and that's not very reliable now, is it?

Hmmmmm?

[Cassandra]

13. What is the...

"the most pure and ideological base of what would be the Democratic Party" doing supporting the farce that is the current Nader campaign? What is pure about Ralph right now?

[sangh0]

20. Nadir voters. They're now the "Democratic base"

:crazy:

[info being]

22. Are you saying there's no room for them? Interesting.

[info being]

21. HIs ideas have been pure and ideological.

You're right that his actions these days are misguided at best, but certainly you have to understand the allure of his message.

[seabeyond]

17. nadar himself is now my issue after watching

for 6 months. he doesnt deserve the support. he talks fixing and purifying the system yet he is a hypocrit in many ways, and he doesnt deserve these people support who want something more from their campaign

especially the last couple months, simply, i dont respect nadar

[Trajan]

23. Let me get this straight ...

You support Nader, and you say that our being 'smug and condescending' is making his support INCREASE ?? ..

Well ? ... whats the problem ? ...

Isnt that what you want ? ...

geeeez: .... Your argument is backasswards ...

IF 1) You support Nader, and 2) Us being unkind to Nader increases his support, then it is safe to say that 3) You, because you want to increase the support of Nader, would WANT us to continue bashing ralphie to increase his support .....

right ?

[info being]

25. Just one problem with your argument.

I DON'T SUPPORT NADER. I'm trying to help KERRY here.

[Trajan]

26. LMFAO ....

yeah ...... right ...

[jasmeel]

34. Nader sucks it!!

:grouphug:

[oasis]

31. I hope all Nader voters are the first ones to be drafted by Bush in 2005.

Send us a postcard from Iran.

[Moderator]

57. I'm locking this thread

Reason: inflammatory and accusatory.