Mens Rights thread two, parent was locked, truth about vasectomy

[DoktorGreg]

It is well known among mens activists that men can not get a vasectomy unless they are 25, have two children, and

This one really gets me...

Married and have their wives permission.

So for most men, it simply is not an option. To be fair, women also have to be married and have permission to get tubes tied, but those suggesting it as an option, are simply misinformed.

As for condoms being worse than nothing at all, I provide these courtesy links.

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&ie=UTF-8&q=contraceptive+failure+rates&btnG=Google+Search

Note that in all studies, condom use is comparabe to using nothing at all as contraception, except for attempting to get pregnant, condoms are the worst birth control method.

Women on the other hand, have multiple perfect options.

[sangh0]

1. Please tell the truth

I know of more than one single male who has had a vasectomy.

[Qanisqineq]

7. me too

of all the men I know with vasectomies, only one was married. I know about about 10 that have had vasectomies. Mostly between ages 25-30. Women can't have their tubes tied unless they have kids and are of a certain age. I know, I asked about having it done.

[Jacobin]

41. I had mine at 42, had four children and STILL had to get my

wife's permission.

Satisfied?

[Mandate My Ass]

2. I've been missing out. Which women's birth control is perfect?

More reliable, maybe, but far from perfect and all with possibly dangerous side effects.

[K-W]

3. You want to site a source for that claim.

Find me the law that says when I can and cant have a vesectomy, and I will go get it declared unconstitutional.

[Bridget Burke]

4. Need some specific links, please.

(1) What are the "legal" requirements that men or women must fulfill before getting sterilized?

(2) What the "perfect" methods of contraception for women?

Then we'll talk.

[DoktorGreg]

26. Click on courtesy link

Then click the third option down. There ~6 non permanent options for women, that are all rated perfect. The Pill is also rated perfect, when it is taken properly.

[fudge stripe cookays]

54. The pill is around 96 to 98 % effective.

Not 100 by any means.

Also, half of the birth control methods that are effective for women are now under fire from the religious right for being "abortifacients."

If some people don't start waking up pretty soon, we will lose the Pill, Depo Provera, IUDs and several other important borth control methods.

FYI-- My husband and I agreed on his, but we did not have 2 children beforehand, nor did we want them.

[WilliamPitt]

5. Bullshit.

[efhmc]

18. Not the term I would have used, too Cheneyesque. Poppycock seems

more appropriate.

[Ripley]

6. What is the perfect option for women?

Hysterectomy? Oh wait you said "multiple." What are the others? You don't seem to know much about female contraception.

[billyskank]

8. Strikes me that

a vasectomy isn't the best method for a single man anyway. Consider:

"Uh, don't worry baby. I've been snipped and tied."

That's asking for an awful lot of trust, don't you think?

[SemperEadem]

16. years ago, I was dating a dude who told me this very thing...

then about 3 months later, he breaks things off with me because he had gotten another woman pregnant.

"I thought you had a vasectomy?" I asked, increduously. Sheepishly, he responded "uh, I lied about that". I wanted so badly to knock him over this low wall behind him, but he would have fallen to his death, which at the time I felt he deserved, but being that I really like my liberty, I chose to count my blessings that I wasn't the one who was pregnant and leave his ass alone.

[billyskank]

23. What an asshole! n/t

[sandnsea]

9. ????

:crazy: My husband got a vasectomy and he most definitely DID NOT need my permission. Men have some legitimate issues that need addressing, like help with education in order to pay their child support, just like women. Like joint physical custody. Like being abused spouses, sometimes.

But when you guys start with your poor abused selves with no choices about pregnancy, you hurt your own case. Your choice is simple. Sex causes babies. If you don't want a baby, or don't want one with a particular woman, don't have sex. That's your choice, that's the way the reproductive cookie crumbles.

[tnlefty]

21. Mine brought a form home from the urologists's office that stated that I

was aware of why my husband had contacted the office, that vasectomy is considered permanent, reversal is sometimes possible, etc. I had to sign it prior to the appointment to have the procedure done and someone from the office called me to verify that all of the info. that my spouse had given the doctor's office was correct.

Perhaps this varies from state to state or physician to physician?

[sandnsea]

55. I've never heard of such a thing

I swear, never in my life. Where do you live?

[notadmblnd]

28. They do have a choice about pregnancy..keep their peckers in their pants

or JO! How is it that a man can think they are entitled to have all the sex they want and have to bear no responsibility for the potential consequences of having that sex? How is that a "right"?

[merh]

35. Amen! very nicely put!

:yourock:

[DrWeird]

10. Yes. That's right. Help! Help! We're being oppressed!

:eyes:

[SemperEadem]

11. Not true

" women also have to be married and have permission to get tubes tied"

I was and remain single and had my tubes tied 5 years ago and my doctor made absolutely no mention to me about the necessity of having a husband's permission. I am living proof that your assessment is wrong.

[G_j]

12. multiple perfect options?

I guess one of those men's "rights" is to be ignorant?

[Rich Hunt]

17. yeah, wtf

it's not like ordering toppings on a PIZZA or something.

[Caution]

13. Bullshit. I looked into this when I was 19

And the only thing that prevented me from doing it was the cost involved. The very first doctor's office i called was perfectly willing to do it.

This is beyond belief absurd.

[K-W]

14. Did you even read the sights you googled. What a joke.

Method Failure Rate with Typical Use

Chance 85
Male Condom 14

Yah, no difference.

[NickB79]

34. I was just gonna say, wtf?

I clicked on that link and it was totally the opposite of what he's claiming.

"Paging DoktorGreg, DoktorGreg please report to reality...."

[sangh0]

15. "Men's right's" are a Freeper issue

and like the rest of their issues, this one is based on lies.

There are no special rights for men

[DrWeird]

Yup.

It's like the "reverse racism" bullshit.

[TransitJohn]

52. UH,

there are no special rights for anyone, just human rights, or am I missing your point?

[sangh0]

58. Right

there are no special rights, period, end of sentence

[fob]

19. Are you typing this with your ass?

Men's Activists?

Must be 25, married, 2 kids and have wives permission? Is this a spoof post that is supposed to be in the lounge?

[chiburb]

20. Is a "mens activist" the same as a feminist ?

Can't tell the players without a scorecard, right Herr Doktor?

[Fleshdancer]

22. There's a Planned Parenthood here in Austin, TX that will do it

My husband and I are looking at all our long term options. I heard it was difficult for younger men to get a vasectomy so I asked about it and Planned Parenthood is of the opinion that men are fully capable, just like women, to make the decision for themselves.

As for women having multiple perfect options, I disagree. Just because we can take a pill or a shot doesn't make it "perfect". For many, there are negative side effects to pumping hormones into the body.

[tnlefty]

32. The last sentence of your 1st paragraph is what pissed me off about

having to sign a form for my husband (refer to post #21). Spouse understood my having a fit, but the bottom line was if I didn't sign the form the procedure wasn't gonna happen, and this was 8 yrs. ago.

[Fleshdancer]

50. I just read post #21...that is f*cked up

Besides, if vasectomies are permanent, why are there thousands of billboards advertising vasectomy reversals??

I would be pissed off too if I had to sign a permission slip for my husband. I married a man, not a child.

[Curious Dave]

24. When I was 20 years old

and single I had a specific doctor refuse to give me a vasectomy.

I once had a veterinarian that refused to neuter an old tom cat I had that wasn't going to live another 3 months.

And yes, there are some doctors who refuse to preform abortions (and a woman's right to have an abortion without a father's consent seems to be the implied point of your post...?)

However, there is certainly no law that I'm aware of that prevents a doctor from giving a vasectomy to anyone who asks for it, if he chooses to perform the procedure. If you're trying to point out some basic unfairness here I am completely missing your point.

[merh]

40. LIke those who cannot take the pill or the shot because it make

them physically ill or those that can't because of the family history of cancer and their age...

Doktor we suggest you get a second opinion because your's is definitely wrong!

[marquett]

51. Let's chase this squirrle

around the tree some more and when we all fall down everything will be better

The vast majority of doctors will not perform a Vasectomy on a younger single male. Most doctors will not perform a vasectomy on a married male, without the wifes consent.

The reason is not a written law. The reason is that a doctor can be, and, has been held responsible in civil court. Thats it. Last time I bought two new tires, I had to sign a waver that I would dispose of the old tires in a legal fasion. Do I have to pay the tire store to dispose of my tires? No. Can I buy tires from someone that does not make me sign a waiver? Yes. Is there a specific law in the mind of the tire store owner? No.

The fact is that any female can walk into a doctors office and end a pregnacy without the approval of parent, spouse, or freind. A male will be required to jump thru a lot of hoops to renderhim sterile.

This is civil law in play, not criminallaw

[jukes]

25. things must have changed

had mine in 1980, only 1 child.

[Selwynn]

27. And yet AGAIN, still more blatant falsehoods and inaccuracies

1. You are wrong that men must have kids, be married and have permission. That is a false claim.

2. You are wrong that woman have perfect birth control options. That is a false claim.

3. You are wrong in your claim that condoms are "worse than nothing at all" and your own links say so.

Typical Use: 14 Women (in 100)Become Pregnant
Perfect Use: 3 Women (in 100) Become Pregnant

So a 75% success rate in typical use and a 95% success rate in perfect use is not "worse than nothing at all." So that is also false.

Based on you continuing non-stop failure now spanning across multiple threads to carry on a logically sound and rationally coherent discussion, I am beginning to question your motives.

[DrWeird]

31. just beginning?

Or just being polite?

:evilgrin:

[prolesunited]

29. So, you coming back to defend your points

or provide credible links? Or is this one of those hit-and-run type of posts?

[lukasahero]

30. Sorry, I thought you were joking

but on reading the thread, I guess you're trying to be serious.

My SO (not husband, no kids, don't want 'em) had a vasectomy two years ago. No forms, no questions.

I had inquired about a tubal ligation, again, not married, no kids, no "permission" required (wtf is that supposed to be about?) The only reason I didn't do it and he did was because BOTH our doctors noted that a tubal ligation is more complicated and risky than a vasectomy.

[merh]

33. Just cause you call yourself Doktor, doesn't mean that your

facts are correct. I know plenty of guys that have had vasectomies, varied ages and varied reasons.

"Women on the other hand, have multiple perfect options. "
AND THIS LINE IS FOR THE BIRDS!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Cocoa]

36. men are forced to have back-alley vasectomies

with sometimes disastrous results. :wow:

[merh]

44. ROFLMAO

Do they just use the rubber bands like they do for farm animals?

[robodruid]

37. Some of this may be true...

just this week I saw my GP to do a vas consult.  They did want
to know how many children I had, what my wife thought.  They
wanted her to be there.

He did describe it as perm.

& after an initial feel, refereed me to my urologist.

[afraid_of_the_dark]

42. Welcome to DU!

:hi:

[afraid_of_the_dark]

38. Sorry, there aren't any perfect birth control options...

Unless you're talking abstinence, hysterectomy or castration. Vasectomies for men, and having tubes tied for females, and the Pill all have failure rates, even if performed/used correctly. They are minute, but very, very real.

[kimchi]

39. I can't imagine why the mods would lock your thread...

I can only imagine why you would want to try to continue this misinformation.

[Triana]

43. Ummm...

I know men who had vasectomies who weren't married w/ 2 kids and I have had my tubes tied - and I wasn't married and didn't have kids - still don't 'cause I didn't want any. No one else but me and my Dr. was involved in that decision.

Not sure where ya got your data but I think it might be wrong?

[chiburb]

45. Is There A DOKTOR In The House?

You started this shit, come back and defend it!

[Selwynn]

47. Well..

It's not clear that the Doktor plans to demonstate any coherent logic.

[NervousRex]

46. Uhhh...yeah

Pal...you are so full of

[Mandate My Ass]

48. since the "doktor" won't respond to his own flamebait

here is some insight into his motivations for this POS thread:

These two gems come from the now locked thread entitled "Controversial question: How much say should a man have on abortion?"

The pill is 100% effective in 99.98% of all women who use it properly. That one or two percent failure rate you see on the charts is women who use it improperly.

I realize it is not scientific and all, but I personally have never known a women to get pregnant who was using birth control. Every single case of unintended pregnancy with birth control, the woman was a liar, or a flake, or both.


Condoms are not good enough, they only prevent STD's


They are ineffective as Contraception. In fact, withdrawl has a better success rate than condoms alone. So there you go, ineffective as defined by, worse than nothing at all.

So all the Man haters who just spout "slap a condom on there" should stfu.

Come up with birth control that works for men, and you have a point. Until then, when a woman chooses to keep a child, and involves the man against his will, he is a forced parent. Under the penalty jail time, at the point of a gun. So dont invoke decency, cause there aint nothing decent about that at all.

[Susang]

59. I remember those posts well

My responses didn't go over too well. ;-)

Apparently the good doktor believes that all of us women are actively looking to trap men like him into unwanted fatherhood and a lifetime of child support. :eyes:

[Mandate My Ass]

61. Well, he appears to be quite a catch

The liars, flakes and manhaters always flock to those poor guys. :nopity:

[Susang]

63. Matches made in heaven

Don't you think? }(

[Mandate My Ass]

65. HAHAHAHAHA

Yes indeed. :toast:

[Bridget Burke]

64. I can't imagine the "Doktor" being forced into fatherhood.

I can't imagine any self-respecting woman letting him get that close to her.

[chiburb]

49. Well, as men I'm sure we can agree that NO man...

LIKES to have a vasectomy. I mean we can ALL agree that a vasectomy should be the choice of last resort, right? We can also agree that it should ONLY be performed in the 1st trimester of potency, correct? I mean one should NOT use it as a means of birth control either. And for all you lurking women, NO man has ever had one without tremendous feelings of guilt. You may support our right to have one, but don't ever think we really want one!

;-)

[MadHound]

53. Well, that may be true about vasectomies where you are

But it certainly isn't true where I live, or other portions of the country. I've known several men around the country who have gotten vas jobs, and they haven't been married, twenty five, or had any kids. Perhaps you might have to go out of state to get it done, but it can be done. Check around in your neighboring states and see what their laws are.

[Susang]

56. Perfect, my ass

Where is your medical degree from, Doktor?

BTW, your statement about vasectomies would seems to be incorrect, as the consent appear to be determined by the doctor, as I could not find a single stated current LAW requiring a wife's consent. If you have a link, perhaps you could provide it?

Quote:
There is no rule of law that states that one spouse can prevent the other from receiving medical care that is desired. There also does not appear to be any legal rule that states that one spouse must always be informed of medical care received by the other. Nevertheless, spouses do have certain mutual interests in each other. Interference with these interests might provide a basis for liability. A wife might well sue a physician under these circumstances.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=12257548&dopt=Abstract

http://www.reproline.jhu.edu/english/6read/6multi/tgwg/tgva__e-01.htm

courtesy link right back atcha!
http://www.plannedparenthood.org/bc/allaboutvas.htm#8
http://www.vasectomy.com/index.htm

[ProfessorGAC]

57. I Was Going To Comment On Your Post Title, But. . .

. . .it was too easy.

Hi to you and Mike.
The Professor

[Susang]

60. Bwahahaha!

I wish it was.... :hi:

[chiburb]

62. The Prof beat me to the cheap (but true) joke! n/t

[Moderator]

66. Locking......

A thread was locked earlier today in an
effort to give this topic a rest.


Thanks for understanding


DU Moderator