I am trying this again.. because the moderator said it was inflammatory?

[kabalevski]

... SCARY SCARY TROLLLL!!!!>. that's me.. i'm Glad i got your attention.. it was pretty tricky.. I HAD TO first.. ask you guys for help.. ask you to check on these other people that were telling me this and that about BUSH..and about Republicans.. and such.. and... when i asked for help..what did i get.. people here called me STUPID.. and called me a troll.. (which i had to actually research and figure out what the hell they were talking about?!@).. well .. thank you very much... i really appreciate it.. i guess i'm just talking shit because i'm drunk.. but.. HOLY SHIT>. i'm voting for KERRY.. because.. in my GUT.. i know BUSH is just some stupid ass REDNECK.. and i just don't like him.. BUT.. you MOTHER FUCKERS are in NO way helping my Undecided ass make up MY mind.. ridicule and.. i don't know... ok.. all you want to do is have a bunch of people BACK YOU UP... you want everyone that's on board to all unanimously back you up.. you want NO talk of the OTHER side.. and when someone asks for help about it.. you call them TROLLS? what the FUCK?! can't you listen to people.. DO you not understand english?.. maybe?. i know i'm not very bright as far as politics go.. but.. WHO Cares.. if someone from the BUSH side of life comes here with their websites and their ANTI-KERRY talk?.. either.. PROVE THEM WRONG.. or.. prove them right.. and say WELL.. Who cares.. he's better than BUSH.. *(that's what i've been doing?).. i got some people at this one site.. telling me how much better BUSH is than KERRY.. he is WAY WAY more educated than me on History.. i asked for help on it.. because there's some Younger people on that site that will be Looking up to the guy preaching this stuff.. .. and in return for asking for help.. i get called names.. and I will tell you.. there have been quite a few people that have supported my questions.. and i thank every one of them.. i think i actually got a few people to go to the site and post some DEBATE... but.. JESUS.. please tell me..everyone here isn't all about ..the whole.. LISTEN TO OUR SIDE>>AND ONLY OUR SIDE.. ?@!>. shouldn't we be finding the truth out?.. that's what i want.. and i understand.. that .. that is not how anyone wins this race(truth i mean).. BUT>> STILL.. i admit i don't want to find out about any of the DIRT KERRY has.. because.. really .. i don't care.. i want BUSH out of officec.. for my own personal reasons... I was overseas when he started the whole FUCK IRAQ situation.. but now here i am thinking.. ANYone is better than bush.. SO.. i come to you.. for the LAST time.. and than.. i quit.. because.. like i've said before here.. I KNOW.. you go to a DEM site(newspaper,website,broadcast,whatever> you get one set of info.. you go to the other side you get anouther bit of info.. i just don't like to think that anyone will preach about one thing.. and make others believe ...when it isn't true..

SO .. here.. one last time.. someone.. please.. GO to this site for me...

LEADHEADLOCKOUT.COM..

it is a METAL MUSIC site.. run by a guy named BULL..

go to the forum.. and read it.. and just tell me.. is he right? that's all i want to know.. i don't want you to come tell me I'm the devil.. and i just want to take your people away from KERRY...
i'm voting for the guy..no matter what.. i know people that are in IRAQ.. right now.. and .. i don't believe they should be there..

i want .. for someone to put some FACTS.. up against this guy.. or.. admit that he's right?.. or..something.. i want help.. don't tell me i'm a bad guy.. you guys are supposed to be the GOOD GUYS.. at least.. to me..
i think republicans.. RICH fuckers.. Dems.. normal everyday.. people like me..
but.. when i argue with this guy.. he just throws facts at me.. and i can't dispute.. because.. i don't really have as much time as he does to go dig up every bit of truth..... where.. i guess he does.. or at least he comes up with some shit(truth or not) ( or he went to school.. and paid attention..unlike me?!@)

NoW>. obviously.. BUSH sucks... but.. he says things..and backs them up with stats from sites like CNN and others.. that.. i just don't care to go look.. but.. i've heard otherwise this whole time.. just someone please.. tell me if i'm an ass.. set me straight.. is this all about.. WHO can LIE the best?..

HERE IS MY OPINION.. and please someone set me straight.. because ... i'm getting pissed about everything now.. and i'll promise everyone one thing.. once i get going.. i won't shut up.. so just.. set me straight...

..but.. it seems like.. it doesn't matter WHO is voted for.. between the electoral vote system and just.. being allowed to lie.. it doesn't really matter.. the guy we vote for is just the voice for the system that lies behind the facade.. seems freaky to me.. and i love america... but.. holy shit.. what i've seen of late from this site.. is somewhat helpful at first.. then.. amusing.. than.. just as bad as me going to the other crappy sites and asking for help.. except.. the weird part is.. when i bring up shit to them.. they at least try to talk me into being with them.. so they;'re cool about everything.. instead of calling me a traitor.. or.. TROLL..or whatever name you all came up with..

so.. end story..

i have this site ... it is a site for MUSICIANS.. from this little place in the middle of Kansas.. i know the people there. they are good people....most of them.. are young and have not voted before now.. *(like me) and.. there is someone Running this site.. saying he is independant.. and.. he is pretty much calling KERRY unamerican( i say pretty much.. but he has actually repeated this over and over again.. that KERRY and Clinton have both SAID that they are un-american...and that anyone that supports them is also unamerican.. ) and .. i just dont know about all this.. i don't believe him.. bUT.. i am SURELY not educated enough to Debate this GUY.. and I ask you ( DU ) for your help.. GO to this site.. and either PUT HIM in his place..or come and tell me personally here.. what parts of the things he says is true.. because.. most of what he says goes against things i hear from the NEWS i listen to(unfortunetly i get most of my news from COMEDY CENTRALS daily show).. but.. to be honest.. right now.. i'm about to vote for WHOEVER JON STEWART says to vote for.. because.. i'm tired of everyone lying to me..and then when i ask people for help.. being told i'm a traitor or something...and this is something i've had enough problems with.. so.. i don't need it from the TEAM that i'm trying to find reason to SUPPORT.. ( and believe me whether you help me or not.. i'm telling everyone to VOTE for getting BUSH out ... but.. it would sure help me to get some real HELP on coming up with an ARGUE.. granted.. i say that i don't have time to go research on my own.. but.. i've spent so much time here asking for help .. that maybe i should have just gone from SITE to SITE>. trying to figure out the truth on my own...

anyhow.. thanks for reading this long ass POST>>

and NO matter what you believe about anyone.. GO to NORML.com.. and give them money if you have any to give.. because.. in the end.. even if KERRY DOES win.. which i hope.. once all this present BS clears..and it's time for HIS re-election.. i'm voting for WHO ever will sponser Decriminalization or legalization.. because i know enough Drunk ass alchoholics...that would be better off stoned and watching cartoons..than drunk and fucking up.. ok..

maybe i've said too much.. lol.. BYE>>>

[kabalevski]

1. this was post 2

RummyTheDummy (1000+ posts) Sat Aug-07-04 09:11 AM
Response to Original message

1. Go to bed N/T


NT

“They love power. They know how to get it and they know how to keep it. They’ve always got white shirts and ties. They’re the ‘mature party,’ they’re the ‘Daddy party.’ They remind me of teenagers that got their inheritance too soon and couldn’t wait to blow it.”-- William Jefferson Clinton

[kabalevski]

2. i'm gonna try to put the rest into one...

WindRavenX (1000+ posts) Sat Aug-07-04 09:17 AM
Response to Original message

2. learn how to write N/T



Live Free Or Die


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jdonaldball (290 posts) Sat Aug-07-04 09:18 AM
Response to Original message

3. Is that you, Dubya?





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bobbyboucher (1000+ posts) Sat Aug-07-04 09:18 AM
Response to Original message

4. Dude, I went to the site, and it sucks wind.

Edited on Sat Aug-07-04 09:19 AM by bobbyboucher
Posting there, for me anyway, is a waste of time. Sorry, there is more fertile ground for reasonable discourse in my back yard.

One more thing, if you are undecided then you ain't been paying attention.

www.8643.biz


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NightOwwl (625 posts) Sat Aug-07-04 09:25 AM
Response to Original message

5. Kabalevski, you could at least attempt to be original.


You tried the same thing last night.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...




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kabalevski (30 posts) Sat Aug-07-04 09:31 AM
Response to Reply #5

7. yep.. and i'll keep trying!

Edited on Sat Aug-07-04 09:33 AM by kabalevski
.. i want help.. are you READING?.. hello?..

HELP.. Don't just talk shit to me.. give me some answers?!

glad someone posted a link really...



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Downtown Hound (306 posts) Sat Aug-07-04 09:26 AM
Response to Original message

6. Ah yeah, ah, sure, ah, one more thing...


WHAT THE HELL ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT?


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mharris660 (1000+ posts) Sat Aug-07-04 09:33 AM
Response to Original message

8. I fell asleep about halfway through your post but


instead of me going to that site ask direct questions and I'm sure someone will answer. I only speak for myself but I wouldn't waste my time reading through some goofball's site trying to figure out what your wanting proved or disproved. Just ask, we'll help. Now if your trolling may I suggest cut-bait?

http://www.ypeace.org "But the worst thing I ever done -- I mixed a pot of fake puke at home and then I went to this movie theater, hid the puke in my jacket, climbed up to the balcony and then, t-t-then, I made a noise like this: hua-hua-hua-huaaaaaaa -- and then I dumped it over the side, all over the people in the audience. And then, this was horrible, all the people started getting sick and throwing up all over each other. I never felt so bad in my entire life. " Chunk


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kabalevski (30 posts) Sat Aug-07-04 09:34 AM
Response to Reply #8

9. ok../ hold on.. if you want anouther long post.. i'm game...


.. i will go to the site.. and repeat everything from that site.. here..
i guess..

hold please..


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Moderator (1000+ posts) Sat Aug-07-04 09:36 AM
Response to Original message

10. Locking.


kabalevski, feel free to give it another try, without the inflammatory subject line.

[kabalevski]

4. Dear Moderator.. I am sorry if i am offending anyone..

.. i really am trying to get feedback.. i nEED help...

[WindRavenX]

3. still flame bait

And still written as if a monkey took to a keyboard.
Bzzzt! Gone.

[kabalevski]

5. lol.. a monkey .. took to a keyboard.. alright..

here anyhow.. was the some of the stuff posted like i was saying..

While Bush has been in office, he has created over 1.5 millions jobs in the last 7 months, interest rates are up (which means anyone with a saving account or any type of investments will benefit), in fact our economy is growing at it fastest rate in over 20 years, taxes have been reduced, the Taliban defeated, Saddam Hussein arrested and is awaiting trial, created Homeland Security, ratified the Patriot Act, expanded health care in many ways, has increased education spending by 40%, the majority of American's enjoy a slightly higher standard of living over the last 4 years despite the recession that Clintons tax hike created, is a major donator for HIV and AIDS research as well as stem cell research (which he seems to be against but goes ahead because the people call for it) etc etc etc,

Kerry on the other hand is #1 most liberal Senator, which isn't bad but for a man that comes from a Jewish family and is supposed to have "values" you'd think he'd show up to vote on the big things that affect our nation but he has the highest absenty record on votes in the Senate for the last 7 months, has a history of voting against any tax cuts, in fact has voted on many occations to increase taxes, voted three times against a ban on flag burning, he voted against Laci's Law, voted against EVERY major military weapon we currently use, voted against the death penalty for terrorists, then changed his mind in 2002, voted in favor of Clinton's tax hikes in 1993 (which to date, is the largest tax hike in history), voted at least five times to dig into the Social Security Trust fund, favored UN control over US troops in the 70's, supported $2.6 billion dollar cut from intelligence funding while serving as a member of Senate Intel Committee, voted against the school voucher pilot program, he's the leading member of VVAW - Vietnam Veterans Against the War, Received $300,000 contribution from Johnny Chung as directed by Chinese intelligence officer, he supported Communist Sandinistas and visited with leader Communist Daniel Ortega days before Ortega flew to Moscow and received $200 million in Soviet aid and to top it off, he spent 4 months in Vietnam and claims to be a hero when at least one of 3 purple hearts was self inflicted. And with that in mind, we are talking 4 months and he admitted to committing many war crimes and attrosities. How the hell can someone only be in the swing of things for 4 months and dive right into the village burning (his words) rape, etc? I don't get that. Not to mention the fact that we are talking four months here yet again. My dad spent 4 years, he's a democrat but then again I'd rather vote for him than either two of the candidates we have to choose from here. Then Kerry has the nerve to come back and throw his metals at the White House and he attended and conducted anti-war AND ANTI-AMERICAN protests in the 1970s. That's right...he organized the protests



Ok.. here is The first part ... most of the ANTI Kerry part.. sounded pretty stupid.. like..him being the head of vietnam veteran against the war.. i don't see what's so bad about that?. maybe something i don't know?.. but.. MY POINT here.. was that .. there's alot of people LISTENING to this guy.. that NEED some FEEDBACK from something that knows something more than me.. and if you can REFUTE.. some of this.. PLEASE DO.. and i'll go back and post shit..
like the guy saying>> I TRIED this last nite.. (i also tried the nite before.... i don't give up easy enough i guess.. i have Faith in you all)..
whatever.. i just don't want these guys.. ( who are mostly young musicians.. voting for some guy that's going to try and CUT funding for Music in schools.. and such.. promote censorship.. etc

[kabalevski]

8. ok.. now please dont get all pissy about me spreading BUSH propaganda...

.. i dont think anyone on here that is serious about what they believe in .. is gonna read some stuff about bush and go.. OH>. oh yeah.. i should vote for bush... ok?.. i'm looking for feedback.. and.. can do without people calling me a monkey.. (i'm trying not to INSULT you back..BY the way.. because. .it's supposed to be SHUT down by the MODERATOR? no?.. )

anyhow...

[MichaelHarris]

11. in all seriousness

people who are gonna vote bush* are gonna vote bush*. It's really no use arguing with them, they have this locked mindset. Your mind would be better spent researching the facts.

[murielm99]

13. Put that stuff in paragraphs of one or two sentences.

That way, people might try to read it and make sense of it.

Or, just ask one or two questions at a time.

We might be able to help you.

Also, if everyone here is suspicious of you, try just responding to the things others post for awhile. We have to get to know you and trust you.

When I first came here, I got warned a few times, too. I may not have read the rules thoroughly enough. I needed to get the feel of the place. We get stupid freepers here, and have good reason to be suspicious of newbies.

Also, some of that stuff you are asking about is easily debunked if you use snopes.com, or if you go to sites like mediamatters.org.

You can try Kerry's home page, too.

Calm down and start over -- if you want to learn something and stay for awhile.

[Wonk]

6. Drugs are bad, mmm'kay?

[UdoKier]

7. I don't know if it's offensive or not...

It's so annoying, long and scattershot that I don't have the patience to read it through.

It's way too late and I'm way too sleepy to try and decipher this kind of...whatever...

Be concise and have a point...

[kabalevski]

10. i did have a point..

.. but.. now i'm getting so tired of everyone just looking at what i'm saying and telling me to FUCK OFF.. that.. i'm getting bored too.. i guess i'll go vote for NADER...

SO.. MODERATOR>. i guess you're paying attention to me.. can you at least give me some wisdom..

I KNOW.. this was probaly stupid.. i need to either go back to school.. or BUY a few books.. but.. i've explained myself.. i'm really looking out for THE PEOPLE here.. in a way.. ( mostly myself.. i just dont want a bunch of people voting for bush.. because someone can recite a bunch of stuff he has written down.. but.. i guess there's not gonna be too many people taking me seriously... YOU probably have my EMAIL addy?.. being the MOderator?.. can you email.. and maybe point me in the right direction?)

i found one good website so far.. but .. hell it could be a bunch of lies too ... (paranoia?)

FACTCHECK.org

... anything?.. please//. thanks...

after this.. i'll just quit.. and post little >> GOOD JOB.. YEAH.. right on.. I agree with you messages..

nite

[MichaelHarris]

9. best I can do

"While Bush has been in office, he has created over 1.5 millions jobs in the last 7 months, interest rates are up (which means anyone with a saving account or any type of investments will benifit), in fact our economy is growing at it fastest rate in over 20 years, taxes have been reduced"

All Lies, its in the news everyday, the stats, lost jobs, outsourcing, taxes rose for the working middle-class. This is everyday stuff. Easy to find.

"research as well as stem cell research"

bush* is against it. He doesn't want to piss off the fundies

"is a major donator for HIV and AIDS"

wrong, refused money to the UN to any nation involved in planned parenthood.

"Kerry, the highest absenty record on votes in the Senate for the last 7 months"

think about that, from a president whose spent most of his time on vacation crashing bicycles.


Basically this guy is an idiot who spends too much time watching Fox News.

Do some research

[0rganism]

12. just calm down a bit, okay?

The reason you've been pegged as a troll is that you dropped one of those stinky RW propaganda bombs on us yesterday with a minimum of context. That's what trolls do. They pretend to have a dilemma, and use it as an excuse to prop up some red herring that just stirs up trouble.

Just chalk it up to a misunderstanding, if you have to.

Now here's the thing. You want help with rebutting something specific? Just bring it here, preferably one piece at a time. For example, let's take this part:

> he just throws facts at me.. and i can't dispute.. because.. i don't
> really have as much time as he does to go dig up every bit of truth.

DON'T ASSUME IT'S THE TRUTH. Make him cite the source. If he can't, tell him you think it might be bullshit. Go to http://www.snopes2.com and run a little search if you have to, to see if it's already been debunked. snopes is good for a lot of the RW bullshit. Look, this guy you want to play ball with, he's got time to dig for dirt. If you want to call him on it, you have to do some legwork too. You can't just jump on the court and start slam dunking the ball. First you have to play a little D, get in the game, make him work for his points.

Like this one:
> he is pretty much calling KERRY unamerican( i say pretty much.. but
> he has actually repeated this over and over again.. that KERRY and
> Clinton have both SAID that they are un-american...and that anyone
> that supports them is also unamerican.. )

You DON'T let ANYONE get away with this shit. NEVER. If someone pulls that unAmerican crap on you, you just fire right back and say there's nothing more unAmerican than wildly accusing a fellow American of being unAmerican. Make him back that thing about Kerry and Clinton up, with a direct dated quote. Make him cite his sources and don't you dare let up on him until he does. You're too easy: you don't even know how good his arguments are, because he doesn't even have to MAKE them until he tells you where he's getting his facts.

And NEVER let him call YOU unAmerican for disagreeing.

"We must not confuse dissent with disloyalty. When the loyal opposition dies, I think the soul of America dies with it."
- Edward R. Murrow

"To announce that there must be no criticism of the president, or that we are to stand by the president, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public."
- Former President Theodore Roosevelt

If someone says something that strikes you as inherently bogus, it probably is bullshit. It might not be, but it could very well be. You have no idea how many rightwingers I've destroyed in forum debates JUST BY ASKING FOR THE FACTS. Once they gurgle out, "Well, Ann Coulter says it in one of her books I think somewhere," you have them on the run. Never forget it.

We aren't liberals just because it sounds good. There are reasons, really solid reasons, good ones, for what we believe. If you're going to take up politics, you might want to know about them too. I strongly recommend you read the FAQ:
http://www.huppi.com/kangaroo/LiberalFAQ.htm

[REP]

14. Speed Kills, Man

[Moderator]

15. Locking.

C'mon, kabalevski. Quit taunting the moderators with your subject lines. :-)

Please read through the Rules for Posting on the DU Message Boards, take a look around, and get a feel for the place before starting another thread.