"bush didn't mislead us, it was bad intel"

[Skip Intro]

Been without cable for a long while, but had it turned back on last week so that I could see the convention. And so I'm watching CSpan this morning and some repuke on the line is spouting off about how unfair it is to call bush a misleader because the intel was bad, according to the 9*11 commission's report. And I can't get that out of my head.

These same people that twisted the facts to invade Iraq now twist the facts to retroactively justify it (justification v. 43.5).

We all saw what happened. bush, cheney, rumsfled, rice - all running around talking about yellow-cake and nukes and mushroom clouds - we all saw how it happened. This invasion was forced upon us and the world by these liars. The facts are the facts. Inspectors were on the ground in Iraq, and forced to abandon their mission so that the "shock and awe" could begin. The whole effin' thing was a sham, and the whole world, and thankfully more than half of the US now knows it. Who do these last desperate bushies think they're fooling.

george w. bush ordered this invasion. HE is the one who told the nation we had to invade. HE is the one who forced this sad, bloody episode upon the world and our nation. HE is the commander in chief. HE is the one who ordered our sons and daughters to kill poor people half a world away. This is HIS debacle. He can try to blame the CIA, he can try to blame the Democrats, he can try to blame the "evildoers." But whether he and his worshipers like it or not, the buck does stop with him.

You'd think (if you didn't know better) that the so-called "responsibility party" would have the courage and moral integrity demand accountability from their own. They show themselves to be just what they are - liars and hypocrites, who put the well-being of a moron above the well being of their nation, above the lives of our military, and above the lives of the innocent.

We all know this here, I know. Just had to vent.

[Spiffarino]

1. We all know it, sure.

But hearing the truth always feels good. Thanks for sharing.

[WI_DEM]

2. "The Buck Stops Here"

Even if it was true that Bush got faulty intelligence (though it wouldn't have mattered he wanted war no matter what)the fact is that in the words of Harry Truman, "The buck stops here" meaning that Bush is ultimately responsible for everything that happens in his government.

[TreasonousBastard]

18. Absolutely!

No manager or leader can ever get away with blaming his underlings for screwups. They are his responsibility.

If he did indeed get faulty intel, where are the firings and rolling heads? Why has nothing been done to solve the problem? Why was there an intel problem in the first place? Why are the same people who allegedly screwed up still on the job? Why are the whistleblowers being hounded?

Of course, we know there was no intel problem. They wanted a war and they got a war. Now that things aren't going so well, they're simply trying to weasel their way out of it.

Did Eisenhower whine and weasel this way when he got screwed with the U2? Wasn't FDR constantly bugging the State Department over those dispatches from Tokyo he didn't believe saying that the Emperor wanted no war? JFK and the Bay of Pigs? Carter and the Iranian hostages?

Presidents can and do get betrayed by their staffs and others, but adults handle it.

It's time we put the adults back in charge.

[leesa]

3. Well, we know this is not the case, so don't let them try to get away with

it. It is very well documented that the CIA and many, many foreign agencies and the UN inspectors ALL said it was bad info and that it shouldn't have been used. Bush fabricated the evidence and used it to start his looting war.

[HysteryDiagnosis]

10. Off

with their heads.... such behavior is unbecoming of the misleader of the "free" world

free to give your tax dollars to Halliburton

free to buddy up with corporate criminals (Kenny Boy)

free to be awol

free to turn a largest surplus in history into the largest deficit

free to slander and slur a fellow public servant

free to sell all your shares in your oil company just before it tanks

free to start unprovoked wars for no reason at all

free to use fear to corral the thinking of the populace

free to sit there while the first tower burned....

free to reveal the name of an undercover CIA agent

free to do just about anything you want cuz you can count on the media to spin it around for you

It's great to be free.... free to vote people out of office who never were elected in the first place.

[HFishbine]

20. And Powell and Rice too

--------
In February 2003, Powell said: "We know that Saddam Hussein is determined to keep his weapons of mass destruction, is determined to make more."

But two years earlier, Powell said just the opposite. The occasion was a press conference on 24 February 2001 during Powell's visit to Cairo, Egypt. Answering a question about the US-led sanctions against Iraq, the Secretary of State said:

We had a good discussion, the Foreign Minister and I and the President and I, had a good discussion about the nature of the sanctions -- the fact that the sanctions exist -- not for the purpose of hurting the Iraqi people, but for the purpose of keeping in check Saddam Hussein's ambitions toward developing weapons of mass destruction. We should constantly be reviewing our policies, constantly be looking at those sanctions to make sure that they are directed toward that purpose. That purpose is every bit as important now as it was ten years ago when we began it. And frankly they have worked. He has not developed any significant capability with respect to weapons of mass destruction. He is unable to project conventional power against his neighbors. So in effect, our policies have strengthened the security of the neighbors of Iraq...

more: http://www.thememoryhole.org/war/powell-no-wmd.htm
---------

See Powell and Rice say it here: http://100777.com/media/03102003colincondoleeza.wmv?

[The Backlash Cometh]

4. WACO was bad intel too. So were those decisions to hold-off

strikes again bin Laden during the Clinton years. But I don't see the Republicans giving the Democrats any slack.

[tinanator]

5. anyone who believes that

is suffering from bad intelligence as well.

[Cat Atomic]

6. Everything that happend on Clinton's watch was his fault.

Everything that happens on Bush's watch is either Clinton's fault (economy, 9-11), the CIA's fault (Iraq invasion), the soldiers' fault (Mission Accomplished banner), or- best of all- KERRY'S fault (economy again).

[liberalmuse]

7. I do recall...

that the intelligence agencies were saying that Sadam was NOT a threat. All of us, or at least most of us here knew the 'WMD' claims were crap. We knew Bush was dragging us to war on false pretenses. Over and over again, the people who were saying, 'Let the inspections continue' were drowned out by the Bushies and their media shills. The Bush administration is trying to re-write history. The intelligence agencies were cautioning against going to war based on WMD claims. They weren't sure, and they let this be known.

Anyway, a 'Weapon of Mass Destruction' is a NU-CLEE-AR weapon. Chemical weapons can kill thousands, but will not level entire cities and their populations in mere seconds. Even bioweapons aren't capable of that kind of mass destruction--not yet, anyway.

[calimary]

13. Hey, even contradicta and her ilk were saying - IN FEBRUARY 2001

that Iraq/Saddam wasn't a threat.

Besides, it was bush's CHOICE to lead us to war BASED ON THAT BAD INTEL. WHEREVER AND WHOMEVER it came from. So, YES. It DOES come down to HIM. It IS his fault. Deal with it. He could have said no. He CHOSE not to.

[liberalmuse]

17. EXACTLY!

It is possible to get reliable intel--if your VP and SOD aren't cherry-picking the intel that will get you that war you've been planning for years, that is. Even if you have bad intel, or bad advice from the Pentagon, if you are the President, it is your sworn Constitutional duty to make wise, well-thought out policy decisions. It is your duty to ask many, many questions, and ask the RIGHT questions, in order to ensure the information crossing your desk is the most accurate possible. This is how the President of the United States avoids making grievous errors that effect the lives of millions of people around the world.

Kennedy is a good example. He took full responsibility for the Bay of Pigs incident. He also looked at the facts and used wisdom in deciding not to go along with his war-happy advisors regarding Cuba. A President who is unable to do at least this much has no business holding the office.

[CJCRANE]

16. I also recall

that there was an intelligence report that said that IF Iraq did have WMD that Saddam was only likely to use them or give them to terrorists if Iraq was invaded.

[ClassWarrior]

8. Damn the CIA for misleading my president.

Damn them all to hell!!

(props to an unknown DUer for this meme)

[Bullshot]

9. The bad intelligence was the Bush Administration's own doing.

I'll repeat an earlier post, but Sy Hersh reported several months ago that this administration eliminated the filtering and checks and balances of raw intelligence gathered by the CIA and other agencies by "stovepiping" this raw intelligence directly to the White House. Before stovepiping, the intelligence is checked for accuracy before sent to the White House. With stovepiping, anything and everything is in the hands of the White House staff and they showed bad judgment by running with some false stories, such as the yellow cake from Niger and Iraq purchasing aluminum tubes for manufacturing nuclear weapons.

People and the media need to throw this back in Bush's face every time they play that "bad intelligence" card on their campaign stops.

[Mad As Hell]

12. You know what?

I did not realize until just now that they have redefined WMD. Before it was nuclear weapons. True that.

[many a good man]

11. They LIED, dammit ! Plain and simple

They presented the intelligence as CERTAIN when they knew damn well it was filled with caveats and qualifiers.

That's a LIE. You don't need to sputter around with context and consequences, or anything else. On its face, it was lying.

I don't care that George Tenet stood up and declared it was a "slam dunk." Everyone in that room knew it was a lie. They knew Iraq was not a threat and was not allied with Al Qaeda.

[soothsayer]

14. bully! That is absolutely correct!

They are LIARS and they know they are LIARS and we know they are LIARS.

[My Pet Goat]

15. Translation:

This is one captain who AIN'T going down with the ship !! B/C 2004 :wtf:

[LunaC]

19. "Bad intel" was the OSP!

For those unfamiliar with the OSP............

"It is important to shape circumstances..........."- PNAC Statement of Principles

The Office of Special Plans (OSP) was a secret group of analysts and policy advisors with no status in the intelligence community. Nevertheless they reported directly to the White House and National Security office with cherry-picked intelligence from questionable sources to support the case for invading Iraq. The OSP circumvented formal, well-established oversight procedures, ignored intelligence that didn't further their agenda, expanded the intelligence on weapons beyond what was justified and over-emphasized the national security risk. They became more influential than the C.I.A. or the Defense Intelligence Agency who didn't even know the ultra-secret OSP existed for at least a year.

Because they were based in the Pentagon, it was assumed that the OSP was an intelligence-gathering agency that was second-guessing the C.I.A. but in actuality it was the White House Military Marketing Machine charged with the task of writing the PNAC's "Get Saddam" sales pitch for the public. Shading and bending reality to suit their own purpose, it wasn't important for the OSP's stories about Saddam to be factual, only that the average American believed them to be - in true Hollywood fashion.

http://www.newyorker.com/printable/?fact/030512fa_fact

[Junkdrawer]

22. I wish Moore had spat that back to Oh Really...

That's EXACTLY what I think when I hear that "he was a victim of the CIA" bullshit. Good post. :thumbsup:

[dennis4868]

25. I wish....

all Dems would answer media back the right way....like my post #24!

[Jade Fox]

21. And according to more than one source he started planning the invasion

of Iraq as soon as he got in to office in Jan. 2001.

Sources: Paul O'Neill and Bob Woodward's books.

[LunaC]

23. The Iraq invasion was being planned as far back as 1998!

JANUARY 1998 - The PNAC knew that he who owns the oil also owns the world so they sent a letter to President Clinton urging him to attack Iraq and remove Saddam Hussein from power since he put "a significant portion of the world's supply of oil at hazard". Clinton didn't grant them their wish and the PNAC was disheartened that they couldn't manipulate the military while outside of the White House power structure.

http://www.newamericancentury.org/iraqclintonletter.htm


For further details on the Neocon's rise to power see "The Whispering Campaign" link below.

[dennis4868]

24. This has been bothering me also....

I keep hearing the likes of Hannity and other repub/media whores saying that Bush did not lie, but instead got "bad" intel.

NOTHING CAN BE FURTHER FROM THE TRUTH!

Plain and simple, Bush lied and exxagerated the threat we were facing from Saddam.

As you all may know, the WH relied very much on the so-called National Intelligence Estimate ("NIE") to make their case for war in addition to the WH's private meetings with members of congress.

The fact of the matter is that the NIE did hype the threat of Saddam but Bush and his thugs made statements to the american people and to congress that went above and beyond what was in any NIE (and not supported by any other intelligence agency).

Now, it is quite obvious that the WH pressured the CIA to come up with the "evidence" in the NIE to show that Saddam was a threat to our country. The democrats on the Select Committee for Intelligence stated that members of the CIA told them they felt "pressured" to give Cheney and the WH what they wanted....a case for war with Iraq. There has been plenty of news reports of CIA agents saying they felt pressured with all those trips Cheney kept making to the CIA. Plus, Cheney and the rest of the PNACers set up a "bad" intel shop in the Pentagon called the Office of Special Plans (and the WHIG in the WH)that was used to hype the "evidence" by using people like Chalabi for their information. So when someone says that Bush got bad intelligence from the CIA.....THAT IS BULLSHIT!

On top of this, Bush and his thugs in the administration hyped the hype that was in the NIE. They said many things to the american people and to members of congress in private meetings that were not in any NIE or supported by any other intelligence agency....many times they said things to the people and congress that were in direct conflict of all the evidence. The following are examples:

1. Saddam is 6 months away from having a nuclear weapon (Bush said this in September 2002 and other times as well);

2. MASSIVE stockpile of biological weapons;

3. Unmanned aerial vehicles that can carry WMD to the UNITED STATES....even the NIE said this was not true, AND THE AIR fORCE SAID IT WAS AN OUTRIGHT LIE.

4. Mushroom Cloud

5. Saddam wil use his WMD against the USA....The NIE disagreed...it said that Saddam would only use WMD, if he had any, against the USA, IF HE WAS ATTACKED BY THE USA!

6. Saddam will give his WMD to other terrorist groups...no NIE or intelligence agency suggested this!

7. Saddam/911/al Qaeda connection....as we all know (and the NIE/CIA agree) this was all bullshit!

So, my point is, when Bush was saying all of the abobe statements and there is nothing to support these statements (not even the CIA/NIE was telling Bush these things) then how in the hell can anyone say that Bush was misled by the CIA? Of course Bush was not miseled by the CIA.

In the end, The CIA hyped the evidence thanks to the WH and Pentagon, and then Bush lied and hyped what was already hyped so that he could get his fucking war!

Thanks

Dennis

[merh]

26. The bad intel is the "weed that would be king's" intel -- his IQ

is maybe 80. The bad intel are those who are willing to vote for a prez with no intel!
:shrug: Still can't figure it out, why are so many willing to be mislead? You would think that after drinking all that kool aid they would have to go the facilities and after awhile, the smell would get to them. :shrug: