F-911 Cause of Low Morale Among Troops- Sez Troop

[JSJ]

"The National Center for Public Policy Research has posted online an e-mail received from a soldier, Spc. Joe Roche of the 1st Armored Division, who says Michael Moore's film Fahrenheit 9/11 is "making the rounds" among soldiers at U.S. military bases overseas and is "shocking and crushing soldiers, making them feel ashamed" of their service in Iraq. The letter has been published online by The National Center without abridgment. The full text can be found here'.

'Specialist Janecek, who is feeling depressed because a close family member is nearing the end of her life, just saw the film today. I saw him in the DFAC. He is devastated. 'I feel shitty, ashamed, like this was all a lie.' Not only is he looking at going straight to a funeral when he returns home, but now whatever pride he felt for serving here has been crushed by Moore's film. Specialist Everett earlier after seeing the film: 'You'll be mad at shit for ever having come here.' And there are others. Mostly the comments are absolute shock at the close connections Moore makes between the Bush family and the Bin Laden family in Saudi Arabia. 'Bush looks really really REALLY corrupt in this film. I just don't know what to think anymore,' is a common comment to hear. Some of these soldiers are darn right ashamed tonight to be American soldiers, to have been apart of this whole mission in Iraq, and are angry over all that Moore has presented in his film."

http://www.nationalcenter.org/PRIraqFahrenheit911704.html

The truth is the cause of diminishing morale among the troops? This says a lot about those troops the quoted one is talking about, doesn't it? Here's the truth, trooper- George W Butcher and his generals positioned you to kill in a country where nearly 50% of the population are children. Had you stayed awake in world geography class, and not spent so much time playing video and computer-simulated death scenarios, perhaps you'd have known that, and perhaps you wouldn't now be lowing about the terrible injustice of your predictament- the truth having such a calamitous effect on your morale and all.

[Union Thug]

1. Truth hurts....

...although I doubt F911 has as much to do with morale problems as being stuck in the middle of a superheated desert surrounded by people that hate you and want to see you dead.

At least they are ADMITTING to morale problems now.

[cthrumatrix]

17. maybe using F911 as an excuse rather than the insane Iraq policy

democracy taking root as we speak...70% unemeployment..Lord help them.

[Robbien]

2. The fact that our troops are made to kill Iraqi women and children

and are made to torture them in the prisons may have a lot more to do with their low morale.

[sasquatch]

3. I think being used as a neo-con tool and watch your mates die...

is what's bringing down morale. I keep getting this image in my head of "Gomer Pile" in FULL METAL JACKET blowing his brains out on the john and Johnny Got His Gun flashbacks everytime they bring up Iraq.

[Solly Mack]

4. Odd. F911 boosted my soldier hubbys morale

He was grateful someone finally put the truth out there so forcefully.

[notbush]

6. Is he serving "out of country"?

[Solly Mack]

7. He served in Iraq if that's what you mean

he's currently CONUS for the next 7 weeks.

[durutti]

5. Good.

The Vietnam War ended when soldiers stopped following orders.

[jeff30997]

8. You know the old saying:

Don't shoot the messenger.It's not Mike Moore who is to blame,it's the damn idiot who sent them there under false pretenses in the first place.

[Tom Kitten]

9. It's really too bad we still have

things like the Bill of Rights and people like Michael Moore who utilize their right to use their talent to make a film that just might counter the government spiel on the pack of bogus reasonds they have for our dubious quest for liberation in Iraq, isn't it?

The sorry truth is Bush and co. have shamed our military with this juvenile crusade, the fact of the matter is Bush has BETRAYED our military be lying to them, underfunding and under equipping them, making them targets for all sorts of old and new enemies in the by occupying the hornet's nest we created in the first place...unilaterally, with no UN mandate, unlike Bosnia, I mean we suffer the loss of kids every day not to mention the grief we have caused, and there is no end in sight because Iraq is our responsibility now, and (as a tangent) what about the real terrorist threats elsewhere?

Tragic shit like this requires a paradigmal shift in policy, it's going to be a long road but it cannot begin unless we kick out the Bush gang and their neo-con allies...other than that I just see further needless bloodshed and tragedy...We need wisdom, not fullfillment of Bibical prophecy!

[aquart]

10. It WAS all a lie. Still is.

If the film is "making the rounds," it means they WANT to see it. They WANT to know. They just hate what they're learning. And they should.

Scorning the real agony these soldiers are going through is...how shall I say....easy? Petty? Self-righteous? Heartless? Smug?

[niyad]

11. is this the same name that was on that letter that made the rounds several

months ago (letters to editors all around country that turned out to be identical and coerced???)

also, given the attempts to banish this film, I am really surprised that the troops are even allowed to see it.

they should be ashamed of what they are doing over there, and their morale should be in the pits for being part of this illegal, immoral and unjust war of occupation

[ronabop]

12. No soldier should *ever* be ashamed for following orders.

He/She should however, be pissed off for following those orders, if they find out they were being lied to.

The soldiers are *not* the enemy. They don't get to chose who they shoot at.

This article seems like a blatant attempt to blame Moore for low morale, rather than blame Bush for lying.

Do a soldier a favor today, and let them know that you honor and respect their service, even if you think the mission they have been given is total BS. Our soldiers matter.

-Bop

[JSJ]

13. actually, the war crimes tribunal following ww2...

...discredited 'just following orders' as a valid defense for Nazi defendants of high and low rank.

But, I agree, the troops have been lied to quite a bit. But, I also think a better educated troop, with a liberal arts secondary education under his belt, would have been quicker to discover that they were lies--- perhaps, before he actually became a troop and when it really mattered.

[tommilator]

14. Troops are supposed to refuse illegal orders...

But what orders are legal in an illegal war? Of course they should be ashamed.. and they are. PTSD doesn't just come from having been under pressure and in danger. Guilt and conscience can't be suppressed for ever no matter how many pills you pop.

[niyad]

15. sorry, but I cannot and will not honour troops who torture prisoners, nor

will I honour troops who gleefully play music with lyrics like those heard in the movie as they bomb and destroy a city that is in the cradle of civilization. nor will I honour troops who (even in medical units) say things like "going to get me a rifle and kill me some ragheads (an exact quote from a medic about to be shipped over)

I spent 20 years counseling and dealing with ptsd vets from 'nam, and am just sorry to see that we have yet another generation who are going to need help, and, thanks to the cuts this posturing administration has implemented, won't be getting it.

[Tight_rope]

16. Good...Tell Bush to send you all home...This mission is completed!

Saddam is in custudy....We have turned sovereignty over....American's troops should not still be in Iraq....Tell Bush to send you all home to your families and friends.

[Disturbed]

19. The Messenger, the Message.

This does look like an attempt at making Moore and the film scapegoats for low morale. Truth is in many cases not so pretty.
Most soldiers aren't sadists or criminals. They are taught to kill the enemy of their country. Unfortunately, this time, their enemies are the ones in power in Amerika. That is quite a dilemma.

[lectrobyte]

27. I remember reading someplace that the troops had named

their camps stuff like "Camp Exxon", "Camp Shell" etc. They probably are not as dumb as this article would make them out to be: great morale until Micheal Moore camp along, right.

[VOX]

18. Whoever Spec. Joe Roche is, he writes like a seasoned right-winger...

Googled his name a bit and uncovered the full text of his anti-Moore screed.

I have no idea if this guy is legit or not, but he sure seems to know every right wing talking point, down to the final word, including riffs on trial lawyers, "corruption and decadence" in FDR's administration (???), "abuse of the First Amendment," and "radical leftists in Hollywood."

Doesn't sound quite like your average front-line grunt to me.

http://www.ncppr.org/Blog.html
<snip>
Lastly, there are those like me, who want to explode in anger and rage at this abuse of the First Amendment and the way Moore has twisted reality so harshly.
<snip>
What these good yet impressionable soldiers don't realize is that twisting reality and manipulating the truth is something lawyers do every day in court for their clients. OJ Simpson, so clearly guilty in the ghastly murders, was able to get off because his lawyer team completely confused the issue. Now today, in typical fashion, Moore is doing the very same thing in this film. This is, frankly, the nature of political debate in a democracy -- especially when extremism is allowed to go unchecked.
<snip>
From what I've heard from the soldiers, the things that have them most shocked and upset them are the connections Moore makes between the Bush family and the Bin Ladens. The impression is that Bush is part of a conspiracy that supported the September 11th terrorist attacks. They speak of how Moore makes a convincing case all the way from the 2000 election to now that Bush and Cheney are all about making money. That the September 11th attacks were merely calculated by them as to how they would earn them more money. They speak of the Saudi who was a fellow soldier w/ Bush in the National Guard, and how Moore makes it all look like Bush is more beholden to Saudi interests than US interests.
<snip>
I wonder how damaging and shocking a Moore project would have been in the 1940s making such a video of Franklin Roosevelt. All the corruption and decadence in that administration would have fed such a project well. Or how damaging and shocking would such a Moore project have been to Lincoln, who wavered and shifted often in finding the right mediums and balances in pursuing the great causes of the Civil War. ...Need I even suggest the impact such would have had on Kennedy or Johnson and all their hypocrisies?

Moore is hurting us, hurting America, and today I can tell you he is hurting your soldiers. I don't know what to ask, except that good people out there find ways to organize information so that we can better counter Moore's impact. Is there anyone in Hollywood who is willing to stand up and make a similar film to counter Moore's? I know good people w/ integrity in the film industry don't want to be seen as pushing a political agenda in movies. But this is EXACTLY what Moore and the radical leftists in Hollywood have done. Is there no way to put together a response to them?

I hope more people will arm themselves w/ the facts and the realities of the situation out here and in the world at large. Our political arena is taking a big hit from this film by Moore, and it should tell us all something when terrorist groups like Hezbollah are distributing it around to their own people.

I think it is sad and unfortunate that at this last hour of a long and difficult deployment, so many soldiers are being made to feel ashamed and "shitty" for having ever served in this whole mission. Moore has abused the First Amendment. This is his right, and we soldiers have defended that right, but we who know better should NOT just sit back and let such enemies w/in our own country get by w/ such assaults unanswered.

[jpyron]

21. Yeah, I never wrote like that when I was a Specialist

And my GF complimented me on my writing too when I would send her mail!!

But if anything, a movie won't lower morale as much as being stuck on deployment like they have. Espicially in a hostile environment, with buddies dying. If anyone is to blame for the loss of morale its this administration for stretching our forces to the breaking point and relying heavily on the National Guard and Reserves to fill in the gap. It's so sad when I was looking at the list of the fallen on MSNBC or CNN and like the past couple of months a great chunk of the losses have been part time soldiers.

[newyawker99]

29. Hi jpyron!!

Welcome to DU!! :toast:

[deutsey]

25. Also, check these links out re: Joe Roche

Reagan’s inspiration outlives the man himself
By Joe Roche
http://www.mndaily.com/articles/2004/06/16/9784

He's also featured on The Rough Woodsman, a rightwing blog:
http://www.theroughwoodsman.com/ , among others far right sites: like Town Hall and Free Republic.

He seems to be the rising star among the fascists desperately trying to justify their modern equivalent of Stalingrad.

[Junkdrawer]

20. The troops have been stuck in Iraq for over a year...

Morale is in the toilet. When they do finally come home, we will hear it from their own lips. So now the RW is going to blame Moore for brainwashing soldiers. Somehow, I think that will wear thin quickly.

[lil-petunia]

22. Don't forget, they get to vote,

unless the shrub realizes that their vote won't help him at all.

[Mari333]

23. My stepson bootlegged F 9/11 ON PURPOSE

in Baghdad...and he showed it to his unit at Abu Ghraib..hell, he knew from day one it was bullshit to be over there and he WANTED the other soldiers to see it. Im damn proud of him. Let's hope they all vote against Bush and come back and make some changes in this country.
At least Michael KNEW and KNOWS he is over there for no reason. It makes it easier on him in some ways to have known the truth from the getgo.
Just bring them home!!!
http://www.bringthemhomenow.com

[against all enemies]

24. I hope the soldiers remember "Don't kill the messenger"

[opihimoimoi]

26. They prolly ashamed cuz they VOTED for the SOB

I would be if I wuz there and had voted B/C... then to find out I was HAD...

I would be pissed off... and I can only imagine the chagrin, the disappointment, the RAGE some are feeling after learning from F911... the TRUTH.

Our Troops got had man, they got had...too many of them voted for the SOB

[JI7]

28. it's better they know what is going on

it will be hurtful to them but it's better to have them see what is really going on and give them a chance to do something good with their lives. we will have to help them with any medical care they may need. help them with education, jobs training etc. it's not their fault what happened but bush's.

[seabeyond]

30. love those soldiers feeling down, and they should feel like shit

embrace it, dont hide or shy away from. deal with it. bush fucked em. people have died. they are sitting in a mess

i would feel like shit too

love you dudes over there. sorry this was a war so lacking in integrity, sorry they worked all into a frenzy seeing the enemy (innocent iraqi) as animals, allowing yawl to treat them as such. sorry we have a government and police force that feeds this behavior, allowing you all to be that, a military structure of your bosses not leading you in integrity

i mean, this is mess. they should feel bad shouldnt they

[Karenina]

31. NOT feeling bad

would indicate some level of mental and emotional dysfunction, doncha think? They need to get MAD and we all must demand they be removed from the hellhole their "leaders" misused them to create.

What if they gave a war and nobody came?

[seabeyond]

32. What if they gave a war and nobody came?

wouldnt that be a hoot

[Bandit]

33. "I am outraged by the outrage"

A quote from a Republican Senator about the torture pictures that had made their way public. That is the impression I get from this letter. He isn't mad about the atrocities committed but about someone bringing them to the public's attention.

[unfrigginreal]

34. It's good that they're learning the truth...

it's fucked up that it's hurting morale because that puts them in more danger. I hope their anger will be properly directed at the cowards that put them in this position.