Dealing with Neighborhood Associations....

[LouKYDem]

Personally, I was (and still am) against the war and all, but never intended to put up a "Stop the war" sign or anything after I had a pro-Democratic sign physically removed by the neighborhood association during the 2002 political season. Yard signs, are after all, a violation of the deed of restrictions for my neighborhood association. However, since the beginning of this year, I've been seeing signs pop up in some yards of my neighborhood that say "Support President Bush and Our Troops" and other messages like that. When I went o a neighborhood association meeting to address this (and I admit, I waited until last month), I was basically called a "Communist Nazi" (yeah I know it's an oxymoron, or should I say oxymoran ;) ) by one of the leaders of the neighborhood association, and was told that they aren't going to take any action against those because they claim that the deed of restrictions deals only with POLITICAL signs!! How are these signs NOT political?? And besides that, the deed of restrictions says only signs advertising the house for sale should be placed in the yards. To top it all off, the PRESIDENT of the neighborhood association has one of the signs in his OWN yard!

Besides the obvious solution (moving, and believe me, I've considered it), are there any other things that I can do to deal with this hypocrisy??

[Fridays Child]

1. Put an anti-war sign in your yard.

Then sue the pants off of the association if they remove yours but not the pro-chimp signs.

I have a feeling that you'd win. And I think it's time to challenge that covenant. Just like the old deed restriction against antennas (which was struck down at the federal level because access to public airwaves cannot be restricted), I believe that the sign covenant would be found to be in violation of a superceding law--in this case, the First Amendment.

[tedoll78]

6. I second that.

You could attain justice, and come into some money in the process.. money that could be devoted towards good progressive causes.

Like the others say: record everything, make copies of everything, send everything via certified mail to verify receipt of the communications you send, and consult with a lawyer. This is America, dammit.. not Amerikkka!

[Fridays Child]

10. Perhaps I should do it here, too. Hey! Ding, ding, ding! The big idea!

To all DUers living within the jurisdictional boundaries of HOAs that prohibit signs (other than real estate signs): let's come up with a single sign design, get them made, and plant them in our yards. Do we have any lawyers on board who want to handle the general legal strategy?

[Touchdown]

2. You got a locaal WB or Fox station there?

Sometimes those "call to action" attack dogs can make a little 3 minute segment on a neighborhood spat into something really embarassing for these hypocrites.

Put up your own signs, but use their own definition of "political" against them. Signs like..."I support the Troops. I pay my taxes"...or..."Bring our troops home!"..."We can support our troops without supporting the President-Trent Lott; 1998".

Keep the camera handy, and snap a shot of your troglodyte neighbor taking it, and call the cops on the thief.

Ever thought about calling a bunch of us DUers over for a big block party, where we can bring our own signs, t-shirts, microphones and amps? We can bring our own hot dogs and beer. Do this on the day you get your house under contract though.:evilgrin:

[bluestateguy]

3. On that...

Wonder what would happen if a Democrat won next year, and we continue to have troops in Iraq. I wonder if "Support President Dean and our Troops" will be an acceptable sign.

[eyesroll]

21. Actually, why not do that now?

I believe our city has a restriction against political signs this far in advance of an election. (I think it's 45 or 60 days out).

The city has been good about allowing "Win Without War," "Support our Troops" and other non-election-related yard signs, from both sides.

But, of course, there have been "I Support President Bush and our Troops." I thought about that -- why not say "I Support And Our Troops"?

Cynical, yes, but I suppose it would get the message across.

[tnlefty]

4. Aren't neighborhood associations fun?

Is there a clause in yours that mentions anything about the restrictions still being binding even if one of them is broken? I've come to understand that judges usually nullify the covenants if the restrictions were broken and action wasn't taken to correct the problem.

I write letters to the president clearly stating my problems and citing the restrictions being violated and keep those and copies of the responses that I get back. Some of them have blatant confessions of their violations and it gets amusing.

Document everything and you'll have your ass covered anyway.

[Fridays Child]

12. Yes, that's in ours, too. It's intended to protect the neighborhood, in...

...the event that one or more boards of directors become lax or negligent in their enforcement duties. I see the advantages and disadvantages to CC&Rs.

I fought for years to get our HOA to enforce the covenants because property values were being affected by about $10,000 per residence as a result of the run down appearance of the area. Finally, I got on the board and convinced the others to have our docs reviewed by the premiere HOA attorney in town. He sided with me. We now have a cleaned up neighborhood and property values have been restored.

A side effect of the whole process is that I learned the CC&Rs just about by heart, and I can see where some of the problems lie--such as the sign restriction.

[never cry wolf]

5. Definitely put a sign up.

It can even be a-political like "bring the troops home" tho personally I would opt for "bush lied and our troops died." The second one has the same number of words as theirs and also mentions shrub once.

i assume that flags are allowed and that there are probably many flying proudly. get yourself a peace flag and fly it proudly. i am on the plan commission in out town and there is a gas station just outside the city limits with a HUGE american flag on a very tall flagpole. citing that as an example we banned such displays, for aesthitic, not political reasons. we declared that sort of thing a form of advertising so it came under our sign code.

on edit: welcome to DU LucKyDem :hi:

[Ein]

7. Put your sign up

and call the police if someone steps on your property with any intent of removing it.

[Pallas180]

8. It's called "Selective Enforcement of The Rules" which is illegal, but

unless you're capable of bringing a suit in the local
court for "selective enforcement and harrassment" yourself
you'll have to pay a lawyer which will be costly.

You can write them a certified letter, and make sure it's certified
telling them they are practicing selective enforcement and either
they remove all the political signs or allow all of them. Tell
them if they choose to continue "selective enforcement" of the rules
you will notify the District Attorney or State Attorney (whoever has
jurisdiction in your situation) and ask for an investigation. Before
you do this, get out your camera and go around to every house and
take pictures of the signs getting in the house number in the picture.
Let them see you do it. Then send the certified letter.

If you really feel like fighting, put the sign back up. You won't be popular, but they'll know you're not to be fooled around with. You
could always put up a tongue in cheek sign saying "I support this Fascist-Nazi administration " and let them figure out whether you mean
them or Bush.

Also take out your rules and regulations and check about signs in the
rules. Then go to your local library or courthouse or on the computer
look for similar legal cases.

If you can't do the law thing pro-se, it won't be worth it. At $200 an
hour it will be an empiric victory, right? Try to use the local complaint bureaus or state organizations. It's cheaper.

Hey . One final idea. Write your local newspaper telling the story and how the association is violating your right to free speech but not
their own. By the way, where do you live?

Of course you could egg all the signs and not go to the bother of
threatening to sue.

[never cry wolf]

9. awesome advice pallas

another idea: does the rule apply only to outside, lawn mounted signs?? if so, stick a big sign in your front window, of course that may invite flying stones.

[tnlefty]

14. In one of my many letters I asked if the association wanted to take

these selective enforcement issues before a judge and allow a judge to decide whether the restrictions were to be enforced or if the association intended to sue each homeowner who had a violation. I noticed that when that responsiblity was put on the association, who had allowed non-compliance for years, things quieted down in the neighborhood.

[Ellen Forradalom]

11. Gargoyle Flap

Here's a hilarious exchange between a homeowner and his association over his demonic gargoyle:
http://www.thewvsr.com/gargoyle.htm

[never cry wolf]

16. that was great

rotflol, thanks.

[opiate69]

13. Covenants suck....

Yet another reason why yours truly will never purchase a house in such a neighborhood.

[tnlefty]

15. The intent of them is okay with me

It's when some people act like assholes and don't want to abide by them and then turn around and point out that someone else may have a violation that they really begin to suck.

[Hippo_Tron]

17. I'm confused as hell...

1) Last time I checked neighborhood associations had no legal jurisdiction.

2) Your property, somebody decides to come and remove your sign well they are trespassing and should be arrested.

[Virginian]

18. Enforcable? 'Fraid so. It is a contract.

Our covenant is registered with the county.
When someone buys into the neighborhood they sign a paper at closing agreeing to abide by the covenant. And, of course they get a copy of the rules.

At a general meeting our first year, someone mentioned that they did not like the color of our house. So I joined the architectural review committee to make sure no one tried to make us change the siding the builder installed on our brand new home.
As a side job to approving exterior modifications and structures, we have been tasked with inspecting the neighborhood. We report to our management company and they send out violation letters. Some people just don't seem to understand that they do have to do some yard work, and they have to do it more than once a year. Buying a home with a yard means also buying a lawnmower or paying for a yard service. Waist high weeds are not acceptable, even if you do have a privacy fence.

Our procedure is to send registered letters, followup registered letters, and after those are ignored, an invitation to a hearing before the board of directors. Then, if that invitation is also ignored, they get a legal notice of a fine of $10 per day. Our final recourse is to hire someone to go onto that person's property and remedy the problem. The homeowner gets that charge levied against them also.

In addition to this, one of their immediate neighbors can call the county health department and add another $100 fine on top of everything else.

[Fridays Child]

20. They do have jurisdiction, under contract law. But their CC&Rs...

...can't trump the laws of larger jurisdictions. The sign restriction should be challenged.

[AP]

19. Your N.A. is in breach of its contract with you and you

could seek damages, I guess.

[Muddleoftheroad]

22. Put up the most offensive political sign you can

Something like Neighborhood Association Sucks Like GOP and then see how they decide to handle it. Be aware that you do still live in the neighborhood and you won't be very welcome if you fight them on this.

[mpsteve]

23. Check with your local taxing authority

I believe the deed restrictions are on file with your local taxing authority. I think you could have the guy cited (by your township, city, or other police) for a violation. It's worth a try! Good luck.