Who Here Was Around During Watergate?

[22181]

I've been reading "The Final Days" by Woodward & Bernstein and in it, Nixon is portrayed much like *: arrogant, stupid, bullheaded and nuts. He got elected to a second term and then things began to really unravel.

My question for those of you who might have been around and of age to vote/remember: Were Democrats as frustrated by that criminal as we are by the criminal in the WH today? Did nothing stick to Nixon in his first term and then all of the shit hit the fan in the second?

Even if * does get re-elected, I truly do believe he's a criminal of the highest order and one day it will come back to haunt him. And if it does, I also believe that a criminal investigation will reveal that Dick Cheney is culpable as well. In fact, I believe both of them, if objectively and FULLY investigated, have committed enough serious crimes to warrant being removed from office.

Could we end up with another President & VP that no one elected in office because of this? Of course, the irony is that we currently have a President & VP that no one elected in office... but I mean for reasons similar to Nixon's term. I mean, so far history's repeating itself pretty accurately, except this time instead of communism it's "terrism" and instead of Vietnam it's Iraq (soon to be Iran).

What are your thoughts on this?

[Bucky]

1. I was a kid but my folks made me listen to hearings that summer

They kept saying "this is history happening, li'l Buckaroo".

26 years later my daughter and I watched the Clinton impeachment and trial debates and I found myself saying the same thing. The good guys keep winning the big ones, but the fight keeps getting weirder.

[Bucky]

12. Oh, but to answer your question

I don't think Bush & Cheney will ever be removed except by the ballot. Back in the 70s Republicans loved the law more than their own partisan interest. Bush could knock over a Stop'N'Go for crack money and the Republican Congress would excuse it.

The saddest part is that Democrats, somewhat out of necessity, are getting to be the same way. Hardly any conservative is above the pettiest form of partisanship any more. McCain & Lindsey Graham are probably the last remaining sane conservatives in the Senate.

Future historians will look into these last two decades and, I'm afraid, conclude that we lived in a time of declining democratic principles.

I remember back in the 1980s when Reagan struck back at some of the insurgent cells who'd killed our troops in Lebanon. At one point it came into question whether we'd hit the right target and the Reagan administration was dreading the outcome of news and intelligence investigations. They truly feared the consequences in the public sphere if it turned out that we'd killed a couple of dozen innocent Lebanese instead of legitimate terrorist targets.

Today the Bushies needlessly kill innocents in the tens of thousands and no one seems to give a shit.

[rfranklin]

2. The focus then was on the Vietnam War...

People on the left were frustrated by the same lack of interest shown by the majority of Americans. Some supported the Vietnam War because of the same dynamic: a bogeyman, then it was the Communists, kept from our shores only by the invasion and occupation of South Vietnam and surrounding areas of Southeast Asia. Nixon had intimated during the 1968 campaign that he had a "secret plan" to end the war. The secret was that he was going to expand the war before we would see any end to it.

[papau]

11. Very True - no one wanted to see scandal - Vietnam was the issue - and

Nixon domestically was a Dem

Indeed I was in on the Insurance industry agreeing on National Health to be passed if he got a second term - and then saying no way once we thought that he was in enough trouble that we could ignore him.

One of the largest increases in Soc Sec benefits was passed under Nixon.

He was a minor threat to civil rights compared to Bush.

[BlueEyedSon]

3. Watergate was kid stuff compared to the crimes of the BFEE

[opihimoimoi]

6. Nixon didnot do the Coup.....lied and stalled, plotted and connived...but

no coup.

Bush, on the other hand....

[the Kelly Gang]

9. Nixon was a pussycat compared to these guys

[mac56]

4. I was a senior in high school.

We followed it every day, especially the summer of '73. The testimony about the Oval Office tapes was a blockbuster.

Nixon resigned in August '74, two months after graduation, and on my girlfriend's birthday. Her father was a huge Repub and Nixon backer. SWEEEEEEET! I got the present that day!

It was an amazing era.

[demnan]

5. I was 14

and I read the Washington Post every day. I remember the election. I tried to tell my mother not to vote for Nixon, that he was a criminal and it was all written about in the paper. She wouldn't listen. She did, however, drive me to the polls so I could hand out literature for McGovern.

[The Backlash Cometh]

7. Off-tangent response.

If the Nixon years say anything at all it is this: If Bush gets re-elected, our country will have another four years of counter-productive turmoil. What Bush and Cheney have done is far worse than even Monicagate because the two are losing world support. We will definitely go into a depression because B & C will continue to concentrate on the upper 1% of the population and the loss of confidence in their leadership by the other 99% percent who will be concentrating their efforts on impeachment proceedings.

[Racenut20]

8. The things that were earth shaking then don't raise the press'

eyebrow today. Today, only sex sells, not corruption.

AND, there was a Democratic Congress, which if we had in 04, we could impeach the *.

[Soloflecks]

10. Yeah, I was around.

There are a lot of similarities and no wonder since most of that "regime" have resurfaced in the Bush administration. (They're like B movie monsters who keep coming back.) And, yes, it was exactly like that; we had a hell of a time backing that bastard into his corner. We thought we accomplished something but it was only illusion, because here we are again. And it's many orders of magnitude worse than it was in the Nixon era. This is the endgame now. This is their last chance, and they know it. These vicious beasts will not go quietly this time around.

[Bucky]

16. "This is the endgame now. This is their last chance." Hardly

They go down now, they'll be back with Jeb in '08, Ahnuld in '12, Rice in '16... Or they'll find a new pack of stalking horses. It won't end. They've gotten tougher, meaner, and richer. They won't slow down and so we can't either.

If Kerry wins, expect the same old Clinton-style shenanigans to start up all over again. Fox will kick it into high gear. DU will be needed more than ever. Our work will only begin in November. You'll have one night to drink and then the next 18 months to start organizing.

[mmonk]

13. I remember

I had a bumper sticker on my car that said, "Nixon is a plumber's friend". To be honest, there was so much going on including a large growing opposition to the war and the "exit" through Cambodia. It took a little time for things to unravel including hearings on TV. It began to influence public opinion away from Nixon.

[democraticinsurgent]

14. i was a college student

and glued to the TV set during the hearings in the summer of 73.

Prior to the 72 election, the media wasn't paying any attention to Watergate. It was a footnote and a small story that was furiously buried by the Nixon spin machine.

The media's focus was on the Nixon juggernaut which was headed to landslide re-election a la Reagan vs. Mondale in 84. Except that McGovern was really the people's candidate; Mondale was ho-hum for even the most fervent Dem. Oh, and i was just thinking this morning how Nixon was trumpeting his "secret peace plan" during the campaign. Bush's "i wanna be a peace president" rhetoric is hauntingly familiar.

It was only after the 72 election that the shit hit the fan for Nixon.

This was a tumultous time. Nixon haters were in the I-told-you-so mode and rooting for him to be taken down. Conservatives like my parents were in denial about Nixon and blamed the mess on the media who were out to get Nixon. As the facts began to emerge, Nixon fans felt betrayed and were very depressed. They never thought our gov't would be so corrupt.

It unfolded slowly. The revelation of the White House tapes was the beginning of the end for Nixon; that and John Dean's testimony. It was fascinating. The media were much more objective at the time and there were only three networks so the nation's attention was focused on it.

As another poster said, of course what's happening now is 100 times worse than Watergate. Iran Contra was 50 times worse, but somehow got swept under the rug. Reagan's personal popularity and 41's behind-the-scenes puppetry apparently pulled that administration through.

I firmly believe that a re-selected * administration will be taken down in scandal. In some ways that would be preferable to a Kerry win unless Kerry is willing to seriously prosecute the criminals. (In no way does that mean I want * to continue, just that there may be more opportunity for real justice if he does get a second term).

[22181]

15. You know Indiana...

I'm with you on your last sentence. Part of me wants to see these two go down with an investigation. If our guy loses (Heaven help us) watching * and Cheney get humiliated/impeached/removed from office (can either of these guys get locked up?) would be the only consolation prize.

[hlthe2b]

17. My Mom was absolutely addicted to the whole story, & the Senate

hearings.... I was pretty young, but when I look at my current DU addiction (as well as all else political), I guess I got the "gene."

Can't answer to DEM frustration, although I think there must have been just given how long the whole thing took to unravel. But, my Dad, ever the good Republican, was shaken to his core by the whole thing, and entered a period, where he basically withdrew & rarely talked politics.

But, yes... we could definitely end up with another unelected President out of this. But, given that the entire administration blatantly lied to Congress to gain support for an illegal war, a major felony, yet the REPUG majority blocks any efforts to hold him responsible.... I don't know what it would take to get him inpeached. I can't imagine that Bush* would have survived his misdeeds in most other eras.

[DancingBear]

18. I was (almost) 22 when Nixon resigned

Nixon was a choir boy compared to what is happening now.

He was an evil man - bigoted, crass, dishonest, you name it - but it stopped there. He was also a brilliant foreign policy man, and was somewhat cognizant of domestic issues (price regulation, etc.). Most importantly, he was not a figurehead.

Bush is, as we know, simply a puppet, a fool, an insane tool of the neo-cons. A long time drunkard who, by connections and fraud, inherited the highest office in the land. He is truly a criminal of the highest order, who will say and do anything, then look back and deny it ever happened.

it also must be remembered that during Nixon's term in office we actually had a press corp that acted as such. That can not be overstated.

[MrBenchley]

19. Nixon was MUCH scarier than the Chimp

Who actually believes the Chimp does anything but work out in the gym and do photo-ops? Hell, on 9/11, Cheney didn't even bother to talk to him, and his aides let him sit in public view for seven minutes before they bundled him off to hide. Even the staffers travelling with him didn't bother to ask what he "wanted done" or much care if he had any "orders."

Nixon WAS in charge and was obviously losing his sanity during the investigation...in fact, Kissinger called the SAC and asked them to let him know if they got any orders from the President to launch.

And yes, nothing stuck to Nixon, and he had defenders right up to the bitter end...as well as a contstant parade of right wing fuckwits to chant in the press and on TV that he had done nothing wrong and had been forced from office by a dirty trick.

[Blue Wally]

23. Nixon had a constant adversary relationship with the press........

Throughout his first term, Nixon had an adversary reltionship with the press. He had a pretty good domestic track record and in foreign affairs opened a dialog with China and did wind down the Vietnam war (though not in a manner or on a timetable that the extreme left wanted). He was destroyed by Watergate, though. Watergate was a simple political "dirty trick" that both parties play all of the time. The probelm thoguh was that instead of acknowledging the breakin when it came about, Nixon tried tocover it up. The worst criminality occurred in the cover-up and it destroyed Nixon and a lot of other people around him. Was it his fault? Certainly, it was mostly his fault. The media really enjoyed themselves because they hated Nixon so much. The problem is that Nixon's fall has allowed the extreme left in the Democtratic Party to pretend that Nixon "stole" the 1972 election by the Watergate break-in. The fact is that the American people resoundingly rejected McGovern (a fine and decent man) and all that his leftist followers stood for in 1972 and today. They are still fighting this battle today in their opposition to John Kerry and other centrist Democrats.

[Cassandra]

33. Both parties did not play those kind of dirty tricks

Democrats are much less likely to do that sort of thing, and this operation was massive and involved illegal use of government agencies to attack Democrats. Nixon did steal the election by systematically decimating each Democratic challenger until only McGovern was left. Nixon wanted to run against McGovern so he destroyed the others, which was what the "rat-fucking" was about. The break-in at the Watergate was fairly minor; it simply became the opening which led to uncovering much more serious corruption.

[Blue Wally]

37. Ummm.....

Which other candidates were really viable?? Muskie self-destructed and Humphrey never built an organization and was always out of money. McGovern won because there was a real movement on the part of the left to take over the party machinery. Show me where Nixon "destroyed" anyone.

[Cassandra]

38. Muskie didn't self-destruct

he was targeted by CREEP and smeared. Ever heard of the Canuck letter? The party was spied on, rallies "mysteriously canceled", all sorts of other crap. McGovern won, in part, because there was no one else left.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/national/longterm/watergate/articles/101072-1.htm

"FBI agents have established that the Watergate bugging incident stemmed from a massive campaign of political spying and sabotage conducted on behalf of President Nixon's re-election and directed by officials of the White House and the Committee for the Re-election of the President.
<snip>
Following members of Democratic candidates' families and assembling dossiers on their personal lives; forging letters and distributing them under the candidates' letterheads; leaking false and manufactured items to the press; throwing campaign schedules into disarray; seizing confidential campaign files; and investigating the lives of dozens of Democratic campaign workers.

In addition, investigators said the activities included planting provocateurs in the ranks of organizations expected to demonstrate at the Republican and Democratic conventions; and investigating potential donors to the Nixon campaign before their contributions were solicited.
<snip>
The investigators said that a major purpose of the sub rosa activities was to create so much confusion, suspicion and dissension that the Democrats would be incapable of uniting after choosing a presidential nominee."

[mmonk]

28. Nixon didn't bring along the neocons,

just a bad personality conflict. I personally think the neocons are the greatest test to our democracy in my lifetime (they are generally disguised as think tank people or just members of an administration and appear less overt than they really are). Nixon's crowd was way too obvious and easier to indict.

[nolabels]

31. I don't think "Nixon was MUCH scarier than the Chimp"

More like apples and oranges if you ask me.

i aggree partly correct in your assesment of Chimp. He has been just along for the ride all through his life. But the thing, if you have not noticed, is the part that he has never been very able to mask his emotions. This is the part that is out context(with the explanation also) of him and explains what you see in his face. He is anxious but knows he must stay put (which would be a plausible). He lies best when he being evil, at this point he just more vulnerable if you ask me. Not in charge, but having some kind of knowledge (how ever brief) is his character. Hell, his whole family is like that, players and not really leaders.


The Secret Service at Booker Elementary:
The Dog That Did Not Bark

(snip)
The fictional Sherlock Holmes solved the crime in "Silver Blaze" deducing that it is the owner of the house who is the criminal. How does he know? Because the dog did not bark. The only criminal who could could carry out the crime and not arouse the dog was a criminal the dog already knew as a friend, the dog's owner.

Now let us turn our Sherlockian logic on 9-11. Hijacked aircraft were wandering across the eastern half of the country. In theory nobody could have known how many there are or if more planes were not in the process of being hijacked. How could they? Two of the planes had crashed into the World Trade Center. There is an airport only four miles from Booker Elementary School, and Bush's presence at the school was in the news media days in advance. The Sarasota Herald Tribune announced Bush's visit to Booker on September 8th, given the 9-11 planners three days to include Bush as a target for a diving jetliner. Nobody could have safely assumed he was not a target.

And yet the Secret Service did not rush in and remove the President to a secure location, or at least to the safety of the armored Presidential Limousine. That's their job. That's what they do in the case of a real surprise attack with so many unknowns. They don't do anything else.

But the Secret Service did nothing. The dog did not bark.

Bush defenders try to explain away Bush's inaction as not wanting to upset the children. Michael Moore explains away Bush's inaction by suggesting he hadn't been told to leave. But Michael Moore failed to follow that line of reasoning through to its logical conclusion; where were the people whose job it is to get the President to a place of safety in event of attack, the people who would have, SHOULD have, pulled Bush out of there, children and public appearances be damned!

The Secret Service did nothing. The dog did not bark.
(snip)
http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/9-11secretservice.html

[Mnemosyne]

20. * & company make nixon look like pre-schoolers n/t

[Jim__]

21. Nixon was a scary guy

He coopted the CIA by creating his own private intelligence team - the Plumbers. He had an enemies list. He was quite capable of manipulating elections - I believe Rove got his start doing dirty tricks for the Nixon campaign. Nixon was capable of mass murder and he bombed the shit out of North Vietnam so that they'd think he was a madman.

BUTNixon knew what was going on. He understood foreign affairs. I believe he understood that there was a line that you couldn't cross without endangering the whole world. The scary part about bush is he has no clue. He'll start a war on a whim. I think bush is far more likely to cause a worldwide catastrophe.

[SheilaT]

22. Oh, yes. I remember it very clearly.

It's important to realize that Nixon's first time was truly a model of progressive legislation. If you can, go back and read some old news magazines or papers from that era, and you'd be quite surprised at how the Nixon of that time really isn't like the paranoid, furtive, criminal that he was in the months leading up to his resignation.

I was living in the DC area at the time, and working at National Airport. On the evening of August 8, when he made his resignation speech, I can tell you that the airport came to a complete halt while he spoke. I think that perhaps planes scheduled to leave the gate didn't, so that passengers and crew could watch what he said.

Not a single passenger walked up to the counter while almost all of us were in a break room immediately in back of our counter, watching TV. I was quite fearful that Nixon wouldn't resign. About half way through the speech he said, "I have never been a quitter. To leave office before my term is completed is abhorrent to every instinct in my body." I thought, Oh, crap! But then, two sentences later he said he was resigning.

In many ways the entire Watergate thing started this country on the path that has led to the polarization we have now. Because the Washington Post was for many months the ONLY paper reporting the cover up (which is what it really was), Nixon supporters were able to convince themselves that the entire thing was only a witch hunt by a liberal paper that hated Republicans. Even in the face of the absolute evidence, they felt Nixon was hounded out of office undeservedly.

Today we have Fox News, people like Ann Coulter and Rush Limbaugh and Sean Hannity who lie and lie and lie and don't think it matters.

Perhaps the most interesting thing about The Final Days is that you can tell that someone inside the White House gave Woodward and Bernstein a close up view of what was actually happening. I've always wondered who that was.

Have you seen the movie All the President's Men? Every time I catch it on TV I cheer at the end when the President resigns.

[zeemike]

24. I agree with most of the above

But the big difference between them is that Nixon knew that what he was doing was wrong and tried to hide it.
The Republicans of today believe that the end justifies the means and instead of hiding it they spin it into an act of righteousness and march on lock step.
That is what is really scary.

[UTUSN]

25. No, EVERYTHING Stuck to NIXON, and Dems Were NOT Frustrated

As for NIXON's domestic policies being "Democratic"------it didn't matter. The onus of being NIXON negated any "good" he could try. The Dems, plus others, could speak with one, clear, morally superior voice. NIXON's history was so KNOWN, he was so DEFINED. With Shrub, there's all this fudging and blurring----oooo, he smiles, oooo he's "compassionate", oooooooooo look how the troops LOVE a DRAFT DODGER, ooooooo he's got old parents and dogs. What did NIXON have-----Bebe REBOZO, a paunchy MALE, Cuban-Exile-FANATIC, hairs poking out of their bikinis at poolside (dark glasses, martini glasses). Quite a contrast.

P.S., all I was frustrated about was being angry at HUMPHREY and McGOVERN for losing to that p.o.s. It's hard to be angry at people one loves. That's why I am so easily frustrated with young purists today, who would prefer to lose than to give up any ONE point of an agenda.---------Somebody STOP ME NOW.

[UTUSN]

40. Threadkiller: I'm Still Pissed at McGovern n/t

[kcwayne]

26. I never put much importance on Watergate

The crime committed did not warrant the removal of a president in my mind, as much as I hated Nixon. As the coverup and calls for impeachment unfolded it still never seemed probable to me that these events would lead to Nixon being ousted. I was shocked when he resigned.

What I found infuriating and frustrating was his execution of the war in Viet Nam. The secret bombing of Laos and Cambodia and continued escalation of the war while he campaigned on getting us out and kept dangling the "Peace with Honor" BS while killing millions of SE Asians is what he should have been impeached over.

Then, as now, I felt powerless to do anything about a corrupt and immoral government. But back then I didn't think democracy was on the brink of extinction. Now I do.

[randr]

27. It was amazing to watch as the screw turned.

A daily revelation that backed him into a corner where no one could continue to lie for him.
And, most importantly, NO FOX network to spread smoke and mirrors for him.
The Dems and Reps were on friendlier terms and were more in touch with their constituents, who had more influence than the lobbies do today.

[LuLu550]

29. The Viet Nam war made me nuts but yes,

I saw Nixon much the same way as I see Bush now, a crazy, control freak who would do anything to remain in power. I remember sitting the the control booth of a small LI radio station with my friend who was the DJ, watching the phrase "Nixon Resigns" coming over the teletype machine....What a great feeling that was!

[jdonaldball]

30. I remember a comedy LP record, "The Watergate Comedy Hour"

I think it was by Burns and Shriver. I can still recite parts of it, like when Nixon prays: "My fellow God..."

[Tweed]

32. DU: Watergate Unit?

[MODemocrat]

34. There was truthful news coverage back then

Although there were plenty of cover-ups within the Nixon administration, it seemed that the news media was doing their job by informing the public of the truth. There didn't seem to be so much bias as there is today. Everyone covers 24-7 for Bush, no matter what they have to say or do, the sky's the limit. Nixon didn't have that.

[carolinayellowdog]

35. Plus Congressional Democrats with some spine

I was in college during Watergate and watched the hearings religiously. But both the press and the "opposition" party have been weakened tremendously in the meantime.

[leftofthedial]

36. the neocons learned much from Watergate

while they were hijacking the Repuke party.

Mostly they learned how to get away with the kind of treason Nixon was nailed for.

Reagan (and his gang) were criminals who subverted the Constitution, perpetrated treasonous arms deals with our enemies and defied Congress. They got away with it.

George the First were even bigger criminals than the Reagan gang. They got away with it.

The bushgang now is basically the same people. They will get away with it too.

I have zero faith in the intelligence and commitment of the American people and less faith than that in the American system of "justice."

[democraticinsurgent]

39. bush 41 was RNC chairman

and prescott bush recruited Nixon to run for Congress in 1948...he was their boy. Some people think that the Watergate burglary was an attempt to rescue documents that might have implicated Nixon, Bush et al in the JFK plot.

Once the plumbers were caught and the coverup unraveled, 41 may well have greased the skids for Nixon's exit, thereby clearing the decks for the emerging neocon cabal.

[EndElectoral]

41. I was there- Watergate hadn't exploded yet.

McGovern never rallied the Dems,

But I still can't beleive Nixon won by that many votes. Myst have been the WW II vets who put him in. It sure wasn't the college crowd. Never foget that bastard going on Rowan and Martin's Laugh In and Saying Sock It to Me. I wanted to punch the damn screen.