Name a way in which America will crumble or utterly collapse:

[Deja Q]

I will start with some:

A nuke war between Pakistan and India will jeopardize the outsourced IT industry.

Our dependence on foreign oil will destroy us if those who sell it to us start to hate us so much that they refuse to sell.

What else can be said that would bring about the end of this country?

[sallyseven]

1. Bush gets reelected and

his the congress stays repuke. There will be no future.

[Mika]

31. Americans will continue to drive monster SUV's..

.. and buy cheaply made foreign products.


IOW, we'll bury ourselves.

[DBoon]

2. Foreign holders of US securities

decide to dump them and stop financing our trade deficit.

OPEC decides to price oil in Euros insted of dollars

[Baltimoreboy]

12. Who do they dump those securities to?

If they all sell, who buys?

[DBoon]

21. Someone willing to pay less for them

Same as with any other market collapse (1929, 1987, 2002, etc.).

Bargain hunters who believe the US economy isn't worth what it formerly was.

[Literate Tar Heel]

30. which is a big reason

we went into Iraq, in my opinion, as well as why we're looking to force change or take over in Venezuela as well (Iraq started selling oil in Euros in 1999, I believe, and Venezuela is looking at it as well)

http://www.globalpolicy.org/nations/sovereign/dollar/2003/03oil.htm

http://www.feasta.org/documents/papers/oil1.htm

[TahitiNut]

32. They don't have to sell ...

... as long as they stop buying new instruments and redeem the notes as thye come due. I foresee a shift to Eurobonds. It's also very possible that OPEC nations could shift to a "market basket" of currencies (or just the Euro) for pricing crude oil.

[Geo55]

45. OPEC decides to price oil in Euros insted of dollars....

That would be huge IMHO

[Mr_Spock]

3. Ditto - Bush gets reelected and congress stays mostly bigots (R)

n/m

[mhr]

4. Social Civil War Between The Freepers And Progressives

This will be precipitated by further outsourcing, greater destitution, unparalleled frustration, and finally despondency laced with revenge.

When people have nothing left to lose, fighting to regain what has been lost at the hands of Republicans will be easy to justify.

I suspect that we will see minor skirmishes in the next ten years with outright civil war within the next twenty years.

[HysteryDiagnosis]

8. Gluttony

>>What else can be said that would bring about the end of this country?<<

Continued misleadership. Greed. The feeling that you have the right to purchase from a puppet government the rights to the riches that lie below indigenous peoples' feet. These puppet governments have usually been installed after the CIA has destabilized the (often democratically elected) government of said country. It's all a game to get the most for the least. This planet is not big enough for some people.... or it doesn't provide them with enough stuff... so they must take other peoples' stuff in order to be "comfortable".

If comfortable means a 20,000 square foot house... 5 cars, a mil in the bank.. membership at the club and all the rest... then so be it. Gluttony... one of the seven deady sins. It is everywhere.

[baldguy]

5. Concentration of wealth.

The rich get richer and the poor get poorer. If that trend continues, it will destroy America.

[rooboy]

6. Massive smallpox/disease outbreak...

due to the collapse of the healthcare system and lack of immunizations.

[candy]

7. Gloom and doom attitudes don't help us !

[Deja Q]

9. Incorrect...

Half this country doesn't think (in other words, the * supporters.)

Loosely associated with that is that, if we all start saying what we see is happening and spread the word, other people will start to see and spread the word as well.

Used correctly, a seemingly doom'n'gloom thread can become salvation.

I also praise Kerry's TV ad discussing energy and an unspecific 10 year policy to rid us of foreign oil. Now if he'd use the same speech on how outsourcing jobs does the same thing, he'd be a shoe-in.

[indigobusiness]

53. Incorrect

shoo-in.

[sunny5555]

11. But its so Chic here.

The Defeatists have won.

[Kathy in Cambridge]

18. And you say the same BS on every thread, sunny5555

How about trying to debate an issue or say something contructive?

:freak:

[porkrind]

29. Sick of your posts.

Putting you on my "sleeper" list.

[Deja Q]

37. Who said that finding a weakness is the same thing as being defeatist?

When you find a weakness, you can correct a weakness.

Defeatists say there is a weakness and there is no hope of correction.

In some aspects, I am close to being a defeatist - after all, given the size of our society, I see little to reverse our use of oil while maintaining our current size, forget the idea of expansion... In 1980, before Reagan got elected and dismantled alternative energy programs under the bogus claim they were "obsolete", we had a chance.

You yourself are defeatest because you claim the defeatists have won. Heavy irony?

[indigobusiness]

55. Lemmings

cling to their blindfolds.

[Cats Against Frist]

10. I don't know about the end of the country, but I can forsee the end of the

Constitution.

The GOP is overtaken by its extreme right wing -- which is already happening, but not a complete reality, yet. Pretty soon the GOP will be stacked with people like Santorum and That Guy In Oklahoma That Thinks Anyone Who Performs Abortions Should Receive the Death Penalty.

They have created their own monster. In an effort to draw together a base, they may have a situation where extreme right-wingers will beat moderate republicans (like the close Specter race).

If the GOP gets totally stacked with wack-os, and they ever gain enough majorities to easily repeal and add to the Constitution, and appoint judges that will interpret things their way, civil liberties will be very threatened and this will turn into a Christian Theocracy.

Some people think the corporatists would never let it get that far -- but the thing is, I think that GOP moderates (like Bush -- he actually is a moderate corporatist) will be phased out, replaced by the breed that are corporatist Christian zealots. If you don't think this is happening, think again. There are plenty of big money Christians and big money to support them -- like Raytheon.

Seems that a solid 30 percent of this country does not want to see it turned over to a Christian Theocracy.

I suspect there would be a civil war or an attempt at secession.

I don't think it all necessarily has to pan out this way, though.

The silver lining is that some external factor could potentially split the religious base from the corporatists, and the GOP tent would fall.

I can't make predictions, either way.

[readmylips]

13. Constitution will continue to be put aside.....

When politicians take an oath to protect and defend our nation, that is a total lie. As we see today, their oath is to 'serve at the pleasure of the president,' evil or not.

At least this idiot running (heee,heee) our country has set himself as a king, and politicians worship at his feet, or they'll have their jobs cut off, or maybe die in a plane crash.

It's up to the citizens of this country to change the kingship of george bush.

[gulliver]

14. It will crumble slowly or bleed to death.

Bush opened a gaping wound, and we are losing a lot of blood. The spirit of America under Bush has turned sharply toward Bush's personal meanness, spoiledness, suspicion, and ignorance. It is sad to watch my great country turn increasingly mean and stupid with age.

The neocon philosophy has opened us up to the unlimited, slow corruption of "any money is good money" and "whatever it takes." They are sowing the seeds of discord and we are heading for our inheritance, the wind.

On edit: Took out Bush bashing. It was off topic.

[DoktorGreg]

15. Washington DC dissappears beneath a terrorist nuke.

And the states decide to go their own way.

[mdmc]

16. Lack of fresh water

:kick:

[AG78]

17. The continued existence

of Corporations. They don't eat(except on human flesh), they don't sleep, so they never need to stop. And they won't. Which is frightening, because since they're more human than we are, that means they have to be more imperfect as well. Who knows what that could mean.

There's only one way to stop it. That's to stop living through corporations. How we'll do that when they're gaining more and more control over every aspect of life, I'm not sure. Maybe stop buying their products. Maybe stop working for them. But that will bring poverty, hunger, homelessness, etc, etc. It may come to that though.

[Deja Q]

19. When oil becomes a pricey commodity is when corprate america will fall

Trouble is, it'll take most of us with it and they will have a greater chance of survival (albeit slight) because they have more money.

Of course, without the ideal means to grow food and keep buildings in temperate conditions or advanced medicine, they're pretty much toast too.

Trouble is, we can't wait that long. Either via peak oil or increased corporate control. Not as it stands.

I miss the days when people had stable jobs... these days it's all buyouts, layoffs, and foreign outsourcings.

[AG78]

23. Peak Oil can't

come soon enough then.

But, before oil, empire's ruled then as well. King's owned everything. Hell, we just had a guy with a crown and robe coronated in the Senate.

It's sad there are so many things that could crumble this land mass with arbitrary borders. Like you said, too many people don't realize it. We have so many potential problems ahead of us(as a species). If you don't sit down and do that thing you said, what was that word...started with a t...th...ti...ta...to...thrank...no...I don't know, whatever it is that too many American's don't do...we'll all hit that iron wall very, very hard.

[cliss]

28. good point, AG.

I was thinking of my OWN version of what will finish us off, as I was reading down the thread. However, I have to agree that you nailed it: there are SO MANY things that could finish us off.

That's the scary part. Pick your Nemesis. We've got so many to choose from.

Personally, I believe we are headed for a major currency crisis. There was a thread in LBN (I think) a while back that mentioned that the Fed has printed an unbelievable amount of currency. They printed billions, trillions of extra cash and I assume they're storing it for now.

Someone was wondering if they had advance notice of a terrorist attack, or if something was going to happen to our monetary policy. Either way, it was scary to read.

The GOP is currently raiding every little stash of cash in the government. As we speak, they are leaving no stone left unturned to find places to raid.

Alan Pondscum is their indentured servant, so he will do their bidding. If they decide to increase the M-2 money supply, then we could be in for some trouble.

[Deja Q]

40. Agreed...

Until 1980, American society was comparatively free. Even the capitalist propaganda cartoons of the 1950s having Elmer showing Sylvester what companies do with money seemed noble. Man, have times changed...

This is not to say pre-1980 was great as we still had poverty and many other problems, but economically we were far better off and nobody was trying to exterminate the middle class in the name of greed.

Indeed, some say World War II was the catalyst which HELPED create the middle class.

While Traitor-ape* compares his laughable "war on terror" to WW II, I see nothing benefitting the middle class, or anybody else for that matter.

and my belief that he* is the anti-christ grows by leaps and bounds every time he says that God is speaking through him, or that God has called upon him, et cetera. And I didn't fathom how so many people (at least 40% of our population) believes he* is more likely to be the genuine second coming. :eyes: :puke: :spank:

I wonder what the next civilization will be like. How will it be ruled? Will it be like pre-oil civilizations (essentially pre-1870 time period :scared: ) or will humanity further progress with its freedoms and individuality while learning to live within the environment it tried to overcome.

And the more we replace topsoil with $250k homes, the less food we can grow to sustain our lives. Money being more powerful than FOOD.

Maybe peak oil can't come soon enough. Even the wealthy's money can't save them; only th farmers can. And how many of them would help the corporate hand that bit them?

[Darranar]

20. Bush victory in '04? n/t

[AP]

22. No more class mobility (unlees it's going from middle to under).

When it becomes impossibile to improve your situation by working harder and being rewarded with a fair % of the wealth your labor creates, that'll be the end.

In fact, overburdening people who work for a living so that people who have a lot of power and money don't have to work for a living tends to be the most consistent condition precedent for the fall of once-functioning societies throughout history.

Wealth is the carrot on the stick which keeps people working and encourages inventiveness. When it's gone, society no longer moves forward. Other societies which do reward work with wealth (rather than wealth with wealth) will out-compete the US.

The US did that to Europe in the 19th and 20th century. Democracy beat monarchy because it untapped the economic potential of hard-working and inventive people who happened not to be born into wealthy families. And Europe will probably do it to us in the 21st century if we don't start dealing with the privileges that unbalance the playing field and if we don't get rid of fascism and fix our tax code and change our entire philosophy about the proper role of corporations in society which has been brought upon us by the Republican party.

[Geo55]

48. "impossibile to improve your situation "

when minimum wage = 1gal. gas...the doo doo will hit the cooling device.

[against all enemies]

24. Howard Stern on the radio.

Sorry, thought I was John ashcroft for a moment.

[cosmicdot]

25. corporate control of our society and government

... it's usurpation of the Founding source of power in We the People ...

is in-process and on-going ... rotting our foundation, the floor boards upon which we 'live' as a people ...

corporatism, corporate feudalism ... which embody elements already mentioned in other posts ... is destroying our bedrock, much like erosion is at work in nature ...

political and system complicity of corporate power is enabling corporate destruction of our Society ... corporatism, including its good ol'boy pseudo-leadership (which has taken control of our government, our political parties, our politicians, and most of our institutions) is like a cancer on our Society: destroying American businesses; communities; families; the 4th Estate; our health and health-care system, including the food we eat (or they 'create'); our environment; our values; our systems of 'authority'; our judicial system; our foreign policy which affects our safety and national security; our Founding Principles; our culture, i.e. entertainment ... there's hardly an aspect of life which isn't affected by the corporation and its 'visions and values' ...



and, in parallel ...

Felons and traitors are running loose and dangerous playing games with "terrorism", real or not, in order to instill fear; create chaos; and, advance personal/political agendas. Such recklessness endangers lives as we've already witnessed with the use of anthrax mailings to further the post-911 agenda, i.e. the PATRIOT Act. The people living in Afghanistan and Iraq, and other parts of the globe not covered by Fox and CNN, are living it out in real-time every day.

Such recklessness is creating new dangers and enemies in our future. It builds walls, not bridges.

[Deja Q]

43. And it's more fun to blow up the wall to get at those who built it.

They are reckless indeed. And it's a shame America went down this step. It's a shame the terrorists got their victory (thanks to a letdown by everyone at the highest level. Then or now, * should never have been praised. It's like Kirk being praised for defeating Khan when you consider Kirk never bothered to raise the shields in the first place, which in turn gave Khan a big advantage and near victory in his revenge... it's amazing how real life parallels old sci-fi movies...)

[Rockholm]

26. Janet Jackson's OTHER Boob?

[HamdenRice]

27. This country will never completely crumble and collapse

Sorry to disagree with your premise, but I just wanted to add another possible, indeed probable, outcome.

I see a painful decline, followed by maybe a more self-sufficient maybe even kinder gentler country.

Remember, England was once an empire. It lost its entire empire and continues to be a fairly prosperous little country. The US suffered through the depression and WWII, and survived in tact.

Even democracy can be recovered -- as when India suspended its elections and eventually reclaimed its democracy.

Also, I'm not sure how old you are but I think the 1970s are a pretty good preview of what it will be like.

If Bush is re-elected or steals the election, the government will run up massive debts, and I agree with other posters that the Euro probably will become the currency of international trade. There will probably be a very severe recession/depression, and the US will eventually be forced to withdraw from Afghanistan (like England and the Soviets) and Iraq. There will be a huge federal debt crisis and stock market decline. Given their methods, I would not be surprised if voting or the constitution was suspended for some time, but we will get it back better than new through progressive politics.

Remember how New York looked in the 1970s? Grafitti everywhere, abandoned buildings, bombed out neighborhoods? Vibrant oppositional youth culture on the lower east side?

Eventually we'll muddle through and create a more progressive, self-sufficient economy and society.

All that pain can be averted, though, if Kerry defeats Bush and we can just go straight to the more progressive, self-sufficient society without the tragedy of squandered wealth and lost years.

[The Flaming Red Head]

33. If the war in Iraq

doesn't end

And the prison population keeps increasing and the prisoners end up contributing to the war profiteering by making components for bombs, missiles, planes etc then we’ll be just like China.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

34. It already is crumbling. Tho' rotting from within is more apt.

We're overextended militarily trying to protect our phony "vital interests" which in reality is protecting the oligarchs investments. By resorting to force to do so, we have alienated most of the world. The people of the 3rd world now realize that what is keeping them in abysmal poverty is our insatiable greed and that we have been ripping them off for decades. We're buying all that stuff that commercial America tells us we "need" with their labor and their resources.

To put it simply, they have had enough, and will fight. And, we can't stop them.

"Even the most powerful snake can be overwhelmed by a million ants." - Chinese Proverb

[indigobusiness]

56. You've got it

We will eat ourselves in our fear of being eaten.

[swag]

35. Magnetism Bombs, as featured in Popular Mechanics

are detonated at the major Internet Hubs and in all of the country's major financial centers, wiping out tons of data and crippling critical computer systems nationwide.

Hope it doesn't happen.

[Deja Q]

36. And guess where more and more of these servers are being moved to,

to go along with getting all those "free" credit reports?

Asia, India, China.

And I doubt they're as well guarded.

[swag]

38. Good point. For those not familiar with the concept

Here's the 2001 PopMech article on E-bombs:

http://popularmechanics.com/science/military/2001/9/e-bomb/print.phtml

. . .

The next Pearl Harbor will not announce itself with a searing flash of nuclear light or with the plaintive wails of those dying of Ebola or its genetically engineered twin. You will hear a sharp crack in the distance. By the time you mistakenly identify this sound as an innocent clap of thunder, the civilized world will have become unhinged. Fluorescent lights and television sets will glow eerily bright, despite being turned off. The aroma of ozone mixed with smoldering plastic will seep from outlet covers as electric wires arc and telephone lines melt. Your Palm Pilot and MP3 player will feel warm to the touch, their batteries overloaded. Your computer, and every bit of data on it, will be toast. And then you will notice that the world sounds different too. The background music of civilization, the whirl of internal-combustion engines, will have stopped. Save a few diesels, engines will never start again. You, however, will remain unharmed, as you find yourself thrust backward 200 years, to a time when electricity meant a lightning bolt fracturing the night sky. This is not a hypothetical, son-of-Y2K scenario. It is a realistic assessment of the damage the Pentagon believes could be inflicted by a new generation of weapons--E-bombs.

The first major test of an American electromagnetic bomb is scheduled for next year. Ultimately, the Army hopes to use E-bomb technology to explode artillery shells in midflight. The Navy wants to use the E-bomb's high-power microwave pulses to neutralize antiship missiles. And, the Air Force plans to equip its bombers, strike fighters, cruise missiles and unmanned aerial vehicles with E-bomb capabilities. When fielded, these will be among the most technologically sophisticated weapons the U.S. military establishment has ever built.

There is, however, another part to the E-bomb story, one that military planners are reluctant to discuss. While American versions of these weapons are based on advanced technologies, terrorists could use a less expensive, low-tech approach to create the same destructive power. "Any nation with even a 1940s technology base could make them," says Carlo Kopp, an Australian-based expert on high-tech warfare. "The threat of E-bomb proliferation is very real." POPULAR MECHANICS estimates a basic weapon could be built for $400.

. . .

[Deja Q]

41. Awesome link, great reading - thanks!

:yourock:

It's been 3 years and no kaboom yet, but all that's needed is one to cause a catastrophe...

However, the article's blurb "The India Connection" should be more than a reminder of the volatility of the India/Pakistan relationship and how stupid our corporations are for taking cheap cost cutting moves. As they only do things to lower costs, and gaudy as this sounds, it's all too easy to conjecture that the corporations are not spending adequate (if any) funds to protect their fleecing of America from all things. And all one needs is a misunderstanding gone wild in Pakistan or India for tensions to mount to a real threat of war.

[DoNotRefill]

39. gun control....

precipitating a second Civil War.

[Tellurian]

42. Ii don't know if this will cause the (entire) collapse of our economy...

But there is plenty of Saudi money floating our economy..With Bush pulling out of Arabia, leaving plenty of people peevish as he is want to do..

If the Saudis decide jointly to pull every penny of their money out of our economy in one felt swoop, it could have a devastating effect with tidal wave proportions both on Wall St. and our banking system. In turn affecting a call from all banks demanding full pmt on real estate, home mortages, car loans etc...to fend off a total collapse of the economy..could happen..

[Deja Q]

44. Prick us, do we not bleed? Wrong us, shall we not revenge?

(what I'm about to mention is all) conjecture, but if the Saudis (more likely to do so when the next ruler moves in) pull out their investments, * (or the next President or whoever) might very well respond with nukes or other horrific weapons we know nought about.

I'm amazed we didn't turn Afghanistan into one large piece of glass after 9/11 (much less do a proper investigation into Saudi Arabia, but why should they get 15 people to die in a plane crash when pulling out their trillion in investments hurt none of them and strangle all of us?)

Clarification: This response is all conjecture on my part. It is a possibility but I doubt leader would nuke another country because of this (hence my use of 'conjecture', I didn't provide the context and as a result made it sound glib and generalizing to everybody else... definitely my fault.). I was not trying to imply that anybody else was talking conjecture.

[Tellurian]

47. Oh, sorry...I thought you were looking for case scenarios

which might collapse or endanger the economy..

Everything on this thread is supposed to be conjectured ideas..(?)

[Deja Q]

49. You were right. My response was only conjecture though possible...

It's not to say that a nuke retaliation won't happen (hence the conjecture), but it is a possibility...

[Geo55]

46. Crippling strike on SA oil infrastructure....

short term....why do you think we have bases in Iraq.
We'll get it going long term....but global economies will tank.

[AngryAmish]

50. Ther year 1994:

From out of space comes a runaway
planet, hurtling between the Earth and the Moon,
unleashing cosmic destruction. Man's civilization is
cast in ruin.

Two thousand years later, Earth is reborn...

A strange new world rises from the old: a world of
savagery, super science, and sorcery. But one man
bursts his bonds to fight for justice! With his companions
Ookla the Mok and Princess Ariel, he pits his strength,
his courage, and his fabulous Sunsword against the
forces of evil.

He is Thundarr, the Barbarian!

[Deja Q]

57. I thought that was Mondas!

But wasn't that destroyed in 1986? :D

Cybermen are here to save the day! :D

[mtnester]

51. Dependence on only ONE fuel source, lack of clean water and cropland

will get us in the end..if we do not move toward mass, outer-regional transit and several alternative fuel sources, it will (already is) bite us in the ass and eventually lay us out flat, stone cold.

Clean water - we all have to have it, it is already being fought over in this country now. Add on to that the alarming disappearance of farmland for food, and you have a disaster looming.

Our undoing won't be due to the actions or business of other nations, but in ignoring our own critical issues right here.

[indigobusiness]

52. Famine via widespread crop failure

from onslaught of new plant disease.

Oil crisis shuts down freight lines and chokes goods to cities. (LA has a couple of days before the cupboard is bare)

Water crises through drought and mismanagement.
(Imagine New York without running water??? eeewwwww)

Huge solar flare fries satellites, breaches magnetic field and exposes Earthlings to massive doses of charged particles. (ouch)

[Skittles]

54. Outsourcing

America will lose its technological edge.