What do you want? What are your goals?

[Az]

How are you going to achieve them? Do you have a plan that will achieve them or are you merely soothing you're ego by thumping your chest.

There are a number of debates the degrade down to macho positioning. This could be avoided and real progress be made if only the participants examined what their real goals were.

In a debate there are a number of goals attainable. If you are arguing to convince the opponent they are wrong you must adopt a respectful attitude with the idea being that you are going to try to work within the mindset the opponent currently maintains. You will attempt to show possible flaws within this construct and perhaps guide them to a new way of seeing things. This is complex and requires the utmost in social tact as well as tactics.

One of the other goals often saught in a debate is to publically demoralize an opponent. This is unfortunately the default course people seem to turn to in public forums. In this format it is often the one with the more charismatic abilities rather than the more informed that is able to sway the crowd. This does not produce much of anything other than mob ridicule and derision.

We disagree on many many things. One of the things we give lipservice to is tolerance. But we have difficulty putting it into practice. This is true of anybody. We are no better or worse than any group that has struggled with growth and discussion. This is the nature of the community we have formed here. We can however try to guide it to become something greater. We can decide what we want it to be.

The place to start is with yourself. You cannot change me. You cannot change Will Pitt. You cannot change Matcom. You can change DU by changing yourself. You can pay creadance to the idea of tolerance by listening to what others mean instead of what you want to hear. Listen to what is behind the words people say. Pain and suffering do not always come out in the most coherant of forms. We are all angry. We are all tired. There are other ways of easing such burdens rather than forcing them on our compatriots. They may be willing to take some of the load if instead of forcing we asked each other for help.

We are ready to stand by each other and fight the good fight. We do not have the lockstep mentality of the right. But this is not a weakness. This is our ability to grow and to learn personified. We are not all on the same page as everyone else. But we seek to understand each other rather than force others to be us.

So ask yourself what is your goal. Ask yourself how can this really be achieved. Ask yourself if you are just venting or if you are truly working towards an achievable goal. Just because the goal seems distant and hard to reach does not mean you have to give up on it. It just means you are going to have to roll up your sleaves and find a real way to work towards it. And most importantly do not be afraid to ask for help. There are more people ready to lend a hand than you can possibly imagine.

[ewagner]

1. Good points

In my years of public service I learned the following:

The goal of any negotiation is a settlement; not a dead enemy.

Keep your words soft and sweet for some day you may have to eat them.

A fair settlement is when one party gets to cut the pie and the other gets to take the first piece.

Allowing your opponents a seat at the table is NOT a sign of weakness.

Progress is an incremental thing....like eating an elephant (how appropriate!), you can only do it one bite at a time.

every political enemy is a potential future ally.

These are principles which served me well in some of the most bitter political battles you can imagine. On a local level, battles are personal and vicious yet you cannot afford to lose sit of your goal. In my case it was to bring a small, remote city into the mainstream of the state's economic and cultural roots.

Just some thoughts....keep your goals in mind...don't try to kill off fellow DUers...it will take every one of us to get rid of this horrid administration.

[On the Road]

2. I Want Peace

but not at the price of silence.

[Az]

3. Silence is not the price

One should only remain silent long enough to sight ones course.

To borrow a story from Douglas Adams. There was the species of people gifted with the most knowledgable and enlightened society. They were the happiest people to be found any where. This smuggness iritated the other species so that they gave them the worst gift possible. Telepathy. Now their every thought is broadcast to their nearest neighbor. It was a constant psychic turmoil of inscessant drivel from everyone else. Now the only way to find their way back to peace was to host a Disaster Area concert (must read the book to find out more about Disaster Area).

The point is that without the guidance of wisdom endlessly telling your every thought over and over again is going to drive the most tolerant of people insane. We have to consider and think things through in order to find the right words to say at the right time. Find a way to make your point effectively so that those you wish to convince can understand. Not in words you understand. You have already been convinced. Your words have to be tailored to convince those you find yourself talking to.