Four Myths, 30 Million Potential Votes

[Mairead]

As the presidential campaigns seek definition, one pivotal issue remains hidden from view. It is potentially huge, especially for Democrats, because it involves their natural constituents, and it addresses core issues of the economy, social justice and fairness. The issue is low-wage work.

...

The shameful reality of low-wage work in America should be on every Democrat's cue card as a potential weapon to be used against the Republicans' rosy economic scenario. But so far it isn't. Why not? One reason may be four long-standing myths that have for years drowned out a rational discussion of what should be a national call to conscience.


http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A1224-2003Aug15.html

[JanMichael]

1. One in four U.S. workers earn $8.70 an hour or less?!

30 million?

Wow.

We need to mobilize and fast.

[JanMichael]

2. A "must read".

:kick:

[JanMichael]

3. This is an important issue!

I'm baffled by the silence...

[WhoCountsTheVotes]

4. DU doesn't care, since most everyone here makes plenty of money

It's rather difficult for someone who grew up comfortable, had a job as a teen for spending money, not for necessities, went to a decent school and a good college, and within a few years established a decent middle class or professional career, to relate to people who had none of those advatages. They might pretend that their crappy waiter job they got right after college to get their first apartment counts as "paying dues" but they were rarely a phone call away from a little extra cash from mom or dad. They have always taken their eventual success in society for granted, and felt it an entitlement.

Only a minority of people on DU have lived in a situation where they chose between heat and food, possibly fewer ever thought about enlistment as a serious option, and I'll bet most here have been to college and couldn't imagine why some people wouldn't.

We'll get lip service from politicans about the low wage, no respect jobs that a lot of Americans work in, but I'll bet the Democrats ignore the issue as much as possible, even to the point of losing, yes losing. Why?

The people who run the party, from the DLC to Dean's campaign to Kerry's Skull & Bones frat brothers to Graham's Florida family empire to Lieberman's upper-class friends, have no interest in pointing out that they have much more money and power than everyone else. The corporations and "small businesses" that give money don't want their employees to unionize, and the "socially liberal, fiscally conservative" libertarian crowd wants us to embrace markets in every aspect of life, since they get to start the game with more point than most everyone, and usually win.

Sure if Democrats would help us fight the Republicans when they try to take our jobs and borrow against our future, Democrats would be the majority party in every state and in the nation.

But most Democratic leadership and the party elite are too busy playing golf with the "socially liberal, fiscally conservative" Republicans to bother with us. "Class war" scares them just as much of the Republicans, if not more so. The Republicans are pretty obvious about only caring about the rich, the Democrats spend lots of time pretending otherwise.


Your name is I'll see ya,
I'll change if you vote me in as the pres,
The President of your soul
I live in the ghetto,
You just come to visit me 'round election time.

[JanMichael]

5. What about those of us that had some privilege but still...

...see this travesty as a systemic failure by America?

Great post BTW, well stated, it reminded me of that old saying,"A Liberal is just a guilty Conservative".

How do the fat and happy grow a conscience?

[WhoCountsTheVotes]

8. same way men show solidarity to women?

same way whites show solidarity to blacks?

Make class issues a platform we don't compromise on, the same way we won't compromise on civil rights, the same way we don't compromise on a woman's right to choose, the same way we don't compromise on discrimination against the LGBT community, the same way we don't compromise on the human rights of immigrants.

Maybe, will that work? Any other suggestions?

[BeFree]

9. Write on!!

Refreshing to see such words come together in telling the Truth.

Thanks Who....keep it coming. Write On!

[JanMichael]

10. I've been contemplating my own "reaching out" to other groups.

And no, it's not "White Male Guilt", it's the knowledge that our best/closest allies are alien to me politically.

[BeFree]

17. "Reaching out"

Good luck, Jan. The aliens will not be easily assimilated, I fear.

Just look at all the 'Rush to Judgements' made day in and day out by the American People. Remind yourself of all the injustice served and supported by the Sheeple.

It will take a revolution to shake the foundations of this American brand of democracy. We are the seeds of that revolution and reaching out to the aliens will be like water unto the roots. It is - the revolution - the only growth we need further. Peace.

[stickdog]

41. I'm with you on this.

Economic justice should be priority one.

Currently, all the break go to those who need them least.

Working class people get Cash-n-go loan sharks, rent-to-own repo men and one step away from homeless paychecks with withholding tax and FICA already removed.

[stickdog]

39. Speak for yourself.

Your class baiting is just classic hating AFAIAC.

And I'm from a proud Chicago working class family.

[WhoCountsTheVotes]

54. "class baiting is just classic hating"

Can you give me an example of my "class baiting" that is just "classic hating"? Honestly, how so?

[vision]

67. I agree

I live above the poverty line but it is close enough that I can see it. I am not going hungry but I know what it is like to get government cheese, I know what it is like to pay for your own college and than not be able to find a job in your field of study. I know what it is like to drive a car that is over 15 years old and hoping it can go just one more year.

I see it all the time in the small town I live in. Many decent Americans are barely making do and if given incentive I think that many would vote Democratic.

[catzies]

72. My area has a Living Wage Coalition.

I'm signed on to it as are others.

http://www.livablewage.org/

[Tinoire]

6. Thanks for posting and it's just getting worse

I've seen the numbers coming to our soup kitchen more than TRIPLE in the last 1.5 years. I thought it was bad before but now it's downright CRIMINAL.

Cry The Beloved Country

[Bandit]

7. Every time we bring up Living wage or even minimum wage we get killed

:shrug: the media just doesn't want more people earning more or we would hear more about it. We still are trying to pass minimum wage increases. :shrug: There must be a better way. Socialized health care would do wonders for higher standard of living.

[stickdog]

45. 1) Increase minimum wage for businesses with over 50 employees

or foreign ownership. By a lot.

2) Get universal coverage.

3) Don't allow "free market" financial loan sharks to prey on the poor. Give the poor and working class a god damn place to cash their checks and keep their money without having 10% - 50% stolen away from them.

4) Offer tax benefits to tax paying companies that pay living wages to tax paying Americans.

5-10) much, much more

[gully]

11. I grew up very poor.

(Somewhat off topic)

But, my family was much better off under Bill Clinton then Ronald Reagan.

We no longer stood in lines to wait for government cheese under Bill Clinton's administration. My family bought their first home (though quite modest) under Bill Clinton's administration. My two sisters (willingly) moved off welfare and into jobs under Bill Clinton's administration. *Though one is a Head Start teacher, and if Bush stays in office, I'm not so sure she'll keep her job* My step father was able to change jobs and get a better wage due to economic growth, under Bill Clinton's administration.

I want to return this country to @#$!* sanity in 2004!

Thanks for the great article. It's eye opening. I think people either have amnesia or are wealthy enough not to see the differences between the two major political parties.

~Denise

PS I sometimes dont respond to certain threads, as I feel my views may be unwelcome, could be the reason for silence here?

We do need a higher living wage. But, we need Jobs first. Bush is losing 8500 jobs per day!

Did you guys see this?

http://jobforjohn.com/

[JanMichael]

13. Why would your views be unwelcome?

Just curious.

[gully]

15. Well uhm...

I'm heavy into presenting the differences between the two parties. I guess you could say I'm a Democratic advocate.

I didn't agree with Clinton on everything, but I will defend his record with fervor.

Paul Wellstone said "The differences make a difference, in the lives of ordinary Americans." That is my mantra here. And, it permeates many of my 'closed minded' posts. :P

I like Jim Hightower's philosophy. That seems to me a great campaign slogan for Dems as WE are the party of inclusion right?

[BeFree]

26. Hey, Gully

Your views need to be heard more, IMO.

There are two sides to the revolution. There is the side which wishes the revolution to not take place and then there are those who see the inevitable. There being more Dems on the side of the inevitable, makes it easy to choose which side we shall align ourselves with.

Supporting Dems is the only sensible thing to do at this juncture. Working against our only friends is sheer lunacy and detrimental to the cause. Peace.

[gristy]

19. Those who have an opinion contrary to the majority of those at DU

sometimes get a fairly intense response which could be interpreted by some that the opinion is "unwelcome". And some just don't want to deal with it. OK?

[JanMichael]

24. Touchy this morning?

I was simply asking a question.

Fact is I'm as far Left as DU has to offer so I understand not falling in lock-step.

K'?

[gristy]

28. Why do you think you were simply asking a question?

Just curious.

[JanMichael]

30. What?

It certainly wasn't complicated.

And since I've been nothing but polite to Gully there's absolutely no reason to think I was baiting.

Alright?

[DinahMoeHum]

12. "Everybody does better when everybody does better". . .

Jim Hightower has been saying this for years, and it should be adopted as a campaign slogan.


:kick:

[jiacinto]

14. Interesting Article

I will write more later.

[Nederland]

16. Question

Does anybody here think there is a relationship between the minimum wage and unemployment?

[JanMichael]

18. Answer: Check out San Francisco's Living Wage.

Sure there's a relationship in this economy however it's minimal and can be mitigated by a decent Society:-)

[JanMichael]

21. Just so you don't have to locate it yourself.

http://www.acorn.org/campaigns/pc.php?p=2587

:-)

[Nederland]

25. Strawman

$10.25 an hour is not a living wage in San Fransico, its poverty.

[JanMichael]

29. Ha. You maka me laugh.

Did you even read the article that started this thread?

Did you even read the link that I provided?

Do you have any reasonable solutions other than bad mouthing the work of others?

[Nederland]

33. Yes I read it

Where do you think I got the $10.25 number?

[JanMichael]

36. My bad. I C & P'ed the wrong page.

My point is that there is a problem so we should seek out solutions. The article that I intended to post pointed out that the best way to create a "ripple effect" was to get Local Governments to enact codes that require contractors (and themselves) to pay a living wage.

Sure $10.50 sucks in San Fran but it doesn't suck as bad as the current Federal Minimum wage.

[Nederland]

22. Minimal?

So if we double the minimum wage, thereby doubling the price of say, day care, that will have a "minimum" effect on how many people choose day care? Do you really believe that?

[JanMichael]

27. So you just made up a scenario and expect an answer?

Seek out some facts then maybe we can talk:-)

In other words: Quit making crap up.

[Nederland]

31. Answer the Question

Nice try.

I'll have you know that this is not a made up scenario JanMichael, its one taken from my own life. Right now, my wife and I pay a woman to look after our child. If you doubled how much we would have to pay that women, we would no longer employ her. You obviously don't want to acknowledge a simple truth that every freshman student of economics grasps: there is a strong relationship between the minumum wage and unemployment.

[gully]

40. Day care costs are not effected by raising the minimum wage...

but what has been effected is the end of Clintons program to help fund Daycare for working families.

[Nederland]

50. Huh?

Day care costs are not effected by raising the minimum wage

Not unless you intend to break the law...

[gully]

51. Not true Nederland...

I was a provider and the wage is roughly $2.00 per child per hour (and in some cases less)

It is not regulated in the same manner as the minimum wage is. I acutally earn less then many teenagers because I can have up to 10 children in my care.

[Nederland]

61. Not true gully

You say that the wage is rough $2 per child per hour. Are you saying that if your wage gets doubled to $4 per child per hour that there would be no price increase for your customers?

[WhoCountsTheVotes]

68. Strawman

We're talking about a minimum wage for corporations and a living wage for certain businesses, and you are making a point about how much you pay your baby sitter.

Perhaps it's a case of ideology overpowering common sense? As far as I know, no one was talking about raising a state mandated minimum wage on your babysitter. But I can understand why you would choose to talk about a *very small* example and ignore the big picture.

[BeFree]

20. History of minimum wage

The last time the minimum wage went up prosperity ensued.

How's that for a relationship? Eh, Nederland?

[Nederland]

23. Prosperity?

For whom? You honestly don't believe that the Clinton years were good for everybody, do you?

More importantly, I agree with what Clinton did with the minimum wage. Clinton consistently argued that you could raise the minimum wage by small amounts without significantly increasing unemployment. However, this is not what people advocating a living wage are talking about. They are talking about doubling the minimum wage. Do that and you will very quickly observe the relationship between the two.

In economics, all things are connected. You can't simply reach into the system and tweak one variable without expecting a ripple effect.

[BeFree]

34. Everybody...

Never said everybody. The rich took a hit when the minimum wage went up.

You asked for a relationship....I gave you an historic relationship.

Increasing the wages of the People has always resulted in increased prosperity for the People. That's a fact you can not refute, and even though you will dance around it and throw smoke bombs, you will never be able to refute the fact that as people are paid more they do better economically. Really quite simple, is it not?

[Name removed]

38. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[BeFree]

42. The gap grew

And even after a minimum wage hike in the Clinton years, eh? That is because it was not a raise to a Living Wage, but merely a minimum.

If I am wrong and you are right, Nederland, then why are we even discussing this? The only reason a Living Wage is so reviled are claims that it will hurt prosperity. Yet all of your leanings are favoring the rich and dumping on the poor. Your fact that the gap has been increasing lays waste to all of your argumants against a Living Wage. The only thing which will close that gap is to pay more to the lowest paid amongst us.

[gully]

44. That's because the rich got richer...

everybody prospered. The Democratic party is the party of inclusion and they make no bones about it.

Clinton lowered the poverty rate among other accomplishments.

Look at the 'averages' on this table.
http://zzpat.tripod.com/#median

[gully]

46. Also, lets keep in mind that Clinton had programs in place to help poor

Bush is doing away with them. Clinton had educational programs/child care help and other means that do not show up in any 'income' category.

[gully]

37. Can you share your story?

I've shared mine. Clinton directly impacted my family. And, Bush is directly impacting my family now.

Not only do Republicans want less welfare recipients, they want to do away with the programs that help people (who want out of the system) to get out.

The Republicans have ended DayCare assistance in Minnesota. Many moms will have to go back on Welfare to survive. This is not a choice, but a matter of oppression. Some will be forced into homelessness.

There are many instances of this.

I personally felt the difference, didn't you? I know friends who did also. Some of the poorest most run down areas where I live became tolerable and even enjoyable. We are now turning back the clock, and there will be cheese lines once again if we are lucky.

http://clinton5.nara.gov/WH/Accomplishments/eightyears-01.html

[Nederland]

43. Coincidence or Causation?

Just because your income rose during the Clinton years does not mean Clinton created the benefit. As I have repeatedly said on this board, Presidents get way too much credit and way too much blame for the economy. They actually have precious little to do with how the economy does. Let's look at the facts:

1) The President does not pass a budget, Congress does.
2) The President does not set interest rates, the Federal Reserve does.
3) The federal budget is only 18% of GDP, and 80% of that is predetermined and unchangeable.

So why exactly do people this the President has so much influence? Because its much simpler to say: "Clinton did it" or "Bush did it" than to take the time to understand the vast interactions that create the current economic situation.

[BeFree]

47. Where you been, Nederland?

The POTUS has a great influence upon the direction that this country takes. One need only look at the differences between the two * regimes and the Clinton years of progressive mindset.

RE:
"Don't stop thinking about Tomorrow" vs "Watch what you say" and living in fear.

Sorry, Nederland, you seem to support 'Masking Tape and Plastic' instead of the maxim of Putting People First. Why are you even here? You must get a headache reading about all this Real Denmocracy in Action we are putting on the People.

[Nederland]

59. Once again

The POTUS has a great influence upon the direction that this country takes. One need only look at the differences between the two * regimes and the Clinton years of progressive mindset.

Once again you are assuming that because the two events happened at the same time they must be casually related. Its a common fallacy.

[gully]

48. Causation...

If it's coincidence, then it matters not who we vote for?

Edited to add;
http://www.issues2002.org/Bill_Clinton_Budget_&_Economy.htm

Taxes have an impact on the economy, do they not? All presidents put together an 'Economic Stimulous Package' and it either works or it doesn't. :shrug:

[Nederland]

58. Why Vote?

If it's coincidence, then it matters not who we vote for?

This statement is so ignorant its amazing. Gee, perhaps we should vote because we care about a woman's right to choose? Or perhaps because we care about sending American GIs to die in a war for oil? Or perhaps because we care because we think elderly people deserve a prescription drug plan?

There are dozens of reasons to vote that don't include the ridiculous notion that the President has vast economic powers.

[tnvision]

55. Clinton’s budget

True, Congress passes the budget.  In fact way back in
Clinton’s first term you couldn’t find a Republican senator
who voted for Clinton’s budget. 

Clinton’s budget was passed with ONLY democrats voting for it
and Al Gore’s tiebreaker, ONE VOTE.  Republicans united
against the budget, they predicted economic gloom and doom and
didn’t want to be responsible for the mess Clinton’s policies
would bring to the country.

Every Republican and his third cousin stood behind the Bush
Administration’s economic “plan” and laughed at the Democrats
who fought against it.  As a result the economic gloom and
doom Republicans predicted back in ’93 has finally come to
pass.

Not to get too off track but I was downsized in January 2002,
many moons after the Bush Tax Cut was enacted.   I currently
get work through temp agencies, no luck finding a “real” job.

One of my past long-term temp assignments may need me again
but at a 10% decrease in my pay (take it or leave it).  I
thought the Bush tax cuts were supposed to stimulate the
economy.  

Not lookin’ for sympathy but since Bush took over my income
has decreased 70% and I’m not interested in moving to India to
get a good job.

[gully]

56. Welcome TNVISION!!!

Great first post! BTW, I'm sorry about your experience under the Bush administration.

[Nederland]

60. And my income has decreased 60%...

but I don't blame the President for it. I'm smart enough to realize that there is an business cycle that is beyond the control of government and that, more than anything else, determines the current economic situation.

BTW, if you subscribe to the idea that good economic times are caused by government (which I don't), what do you say to the Freepers who say that the good ecnomic times of the 90's occurred only because we had a Republican Congress?

[BeFree]

62. I'd say you are curious about being a republican!

Look here, Nederland, you just about got me to call you an in the closet, freeper, but since that is against DU rules, I won't.

I've enjoyed our fencing, but I gotta run. Catch up with you later, Nederland. Glad to see we've kept this issue on top for so long. You and Gully and I. Thanks, Gully.

C'ya.

[Nederland]

63. Not a Repuke

The problem is I'm a Clinton Democrat. I liked the fact that he passed NAFTA. I liked the fact that he reigned in spending and balanced the budget. I liked the fact that he pushed through Welfare Reform. I liked the fact that he only raised the minimum wage a small amount. I liked Clinton. A lot.

On DU that makes me a leper.

[gully]

69. Im not crediting congress, you are...

As has been pointed out, congress approves/disapproves of the budget...

[acropolis]

32. Yes.

And this is Myth #5, and it is the one that really does always shoot down minimum wage increases.

Whenever there is unemployment (and when repukes are running things, you can bet there's plenty) minimum wage increase arguments are always shot down by saying that they would increase unemployment.

But that's simply not true (right now).

Despite the high unemployment, there are plenty of minimum wage jobs available. The unemployed don't (can't) go for them because minimum wage isn't nearly enough to support a family on, and they have to continue to look for a real bread-winning job.

"Conventional wisdom" is almost always purposefully misleading.

A $1 minimum wage increase right now would have a negligible effect on unemployment and a massive increase in the standard of living.

But it won't happen with Bush in office.

[Nederland]

49. Agreed

A $1 minimum wage increase right now would have a negligible effect on unemployment and a massive increase in the standard of living.

I agree.

Small increases like those that Clinton pushed through have only a negligible effect on unemployment. My concern is with the massive increases in the minimum wage like those advocated by living wage proponents.

[BeFree]

52. Concerns, Nederland?

What is it, precisely, that concerns you regarding a Living Wage? First, however, you may want to put a number on what YOU consider to be an honest Living Wage. Than we can begin to discuss what would be so wrong about paying people enough to raise a family.

[gully]

53. There needs to be a total package...

You cant simply say increasing wages alone will be the answer. In addition you cant' say tax cuts are the answer.

Both are too simplistic. And, in fact the tax cut was detrimental. But, we do need higher wages, and this needs to be an issue along with other issues on the table.

By the way tell they guy who made $1 more per hour under Clinton that it didn't matter. It matters much to some people. And, when Clinton was in office, and things were going well, one could impose safely such an increase. $1.00 per hour is a 20% pay increase for many.

[gully]

35. Answer...

Increasing the minimum wage means nothing if we have no jobs.

And, by the way the Dems always fight to increase the minimum wage. In fact, Clinton did so.

[PATRICK]

57. WP's "friendly" advice

Of course, they know the DLC has been avoiding "catering" to the lower(by any definition) classes because they consider the upper middle class swing voters more decisive. Even mentioning this causes the flames to rise on the DU burners.

Personally, I am beginning to regard just about any editorial in the WP as I would the Washington Times. The temptation is to recognize the crucial validity of the fact and start hacking away at each other instead of brushing off the rather weak sister DLC philosophy and each getting about the business of winning.

I had an uncle who used to start bar brawls that way and then waft up the abandonned drinks while he was enjoying the show.

On numberless points the Democrats seem to have difficulty drumming millions into the big tent WHATEVER the urgent and obvious cause. Anyone who had to take scolds from a pundit in order to make a move was worthless as an effective poltician. Usually their advice is childish or self-evident. Give the GOP your populist platform advice? They don't care and don't seem to need it in the slightest.

[JanMichael]

65. They know that the DLC will ignore the reality of the situation.

But perhaps, through all of this crap, we can get some progress made...Even if it's simply discrediting the DLC.

[DemBones DemBones]

64. Excellent article! EVERYONE SHOULD READ THIS ONE!!!

I look forward to her book. I'm especially glad that she included Myth #2 (Training and new skills solve the problem.) I am a strong believer in education for its own sake, not as career training, and think it's criminal that so many people are encouraged to believe that more education will guarantee them a job when there is no guarantee that it will.

Last week I received a newsletter (totally non-political) in which the writer told a few things about her recent trip to England. One was that she was surprised to see that cashiers in stores were all working sitting down. She asked one about it and learned that it's because they're unionized. That's a lesson in the power of unions. And anyone who's worked a job that required them to stand for hours for no good reason knows how tiring it is and how it can lead to real problems with feet, legs, and back. We need more unions to protect workers against the stupidity of management.

[JanMichael]

66. It's a good one alright. So good that it drew out the anti-Living Wagers.

Amazing, ain't it?

[progressivejazz]

70. Including one anti-Living Wager

who can simultaneously argue that:

1. economic conditions are mainly due to the business cycle rather than the president and

2. a living wage will be bad for economic conditions.


Am I the only one who sees a problem with the logic in these two statements?

[Aaron]

71. They read as being contradictory to me (n/t)