Is Dean actually qualified to be President?

[VoteClark]

If the Mayor of Memphis was a Democrat and announced he was a candidate for President, would you consider him qualified?

I know Dean was Governor of Vermont for eleven years. But is that enough to qualify for President? Vermont is a very tiny state. Vermont is smaller than Memphis.

If Dean is qualified to run for President for being Governor of Vermont than everyone that has served as Mayors of the following Cities are more qualified:

LA, NYC, Chicago, Houston, Philidelphia, Phoenix, San Diego, Dallas, San Antonio, Detroit, San Jose, Indianapolis, San Fransico, Jacksonville, Columbus, Austin, and Balitmore.

And of course anyone that has served as Governor of the following states would also be more qualified to run for President:

Alabama Arizona Arkansas California Colorado Connecticut Delaware
Florida Georgia Hawaii Idaho Illinois Indiana Iowa Kansas Kentucky
Louisiana Maine Maryland Massachusetts Michigan Minnesota Mississippi
Missouri Montana Nebraska Nevada New Hampshire New Jersey New Mexico
New York North Carolina Ohio Oklahoma Oregon Pennsylvania Rhode Island South Carolina Tennessee Texas Utah Virginia Washington West Virginia Wisconsin and Wisconsin

So is Dean well qualified? How small can a state be still be considered qualified to be President? 600,000, or 400,000, or 200,000 people, how about just 20,000 people. Where do we draw the line?

[arcos]

1. This has to STOP!

Questioning whether a candidate is qualified or not is ok. But the WAY you write it is derogatory, and this has got to stop. This does not contribute at all to high quality debate.

Threads like this should be allowed to sink.

[Paschall]

2. Sink? Can I help?

Here's a big bucket of water!

(VoteClark, you're walking a very fine line. Watch yourself.)

[VoteClark]

5. How is it derogatory?

Please explain. It is the truth. If you wish for me to reword it, then tell me how.

:kick:
J4Clark

[pa28]

3. Just about anybody. . .

is more qualified than Bush. That is the point.

[VoteClark]

23. I agree with that

[oasis]

4. Draft Gray Davis

[w4rma]

6. President Arthur and President Coolidge were both from Vermont

Chester Alan Arthur, 21st president of the United States of America
Calvin Coolidge, 30th President of the United States of America
http://www.dhca.state.vt.us/HistoricSites/html/uspres.html

[VoteClark]

9. And what great Presidents they were! Not mention they became

President because the elected President died.

Wasn't the great depression linked to the Coolidge administration?

:kick:
J4Clark

[w4rma]

13. Both were Republicans (n/t)

[charlie]

11. Ack

Don't bring up Arthur. He was probably the singularly most unqualified president ever. Only machine politics and happenstance got him into office, no one really expected him to actually ever be president.

[VoteClark]

Harding was worse

That guy could not find his way out of a paper bag if he didn't have someone helping him out.

[w4rma]

15. :shrugs: They were Republicans (n/t)

[bodhisattava]

40. What about Bush? Is he qualified to be dogcatcher of Vermont,

let alone be President? Only happenstance or more correctly,
Republican inspired conspiracy denied Al Gore the Presidency.

Every single day that he has been in office, the country and the world has been lurching from crisis to crisis with no end in sight.

Yet we are debating Governor Dean's competency.What a laugh!

[charlie]

45. I wasn't debating Dean's qualifications

I was talking about Chester Arthur, whose only positions of note were Quartermaster General and Collector of the Port of New York. He only got on the ticket as a sop for his loyalty to the NY party machine.

I expect Dean would do well as chief executive, provided he recruits a good staff and cabinet.

[Booberdawg]

7. Bullshit Alert! Bullshit Alert! Bullshit Alert!

:eyes:

[pfitz59]

8. To be President: 1) Born in USA 2) 35 years old.

No other qualification required! Your post is ludicrous.

[Khephra]

10. I've been here over two years

And you have to be one of the most divisive posters I've ever seen.

[TeeYiYi]

12. Your divisive posts are only serving to . . .

. . . dissuade undecided voters from liking your candidate. If you truly are a Clark fan, maybe your time would be better spent telling us all why he is the best man for the job rather than listing all of the reasons why 'you' think Dean is not that man.

TYY

[oasis]

17. "dissuade undecided voters from liking your candidate"

Now why on earth would anybody want to do that? :shrug:

[Trajan]

14. It HAS to be said ....

As a Clark supporter, a long time DUer and dedicated Democrat ...

This HAS to be said ....

Vote Clark ? .... I like Wesley Clark, and I hope he becomes President, ... but YOUR MANNER and your derogatory tone taken against your fellow DU members is EXTREMELY unbecoming and unwarranted ...

This is not High School Football, and this is NOT the big Friday night game ....

Cool your rhetoric, and modify the tone with which you 'disagree' with Dean supporters, .... or Trust me on this: ... you will not last here beyond this weekend ....

I love Wesley Clark, ... and I will GLADLY vote for him, ... and even As I despise those who rail AGAINST Clark for the most mundane issues, I also despise those who would use insults and degrading language against their fellow democrats as if this was a fucking high school ....

Your posts are divisive and grating .... your threads seem intentionally devised to foment dissent and disorder ...

This is NOT appreciated by many here at DU ....

The Clark supporters have to GROW UP .... and learn some decent manners ..... or they will be HURTING the Clark cause here, .... not helping it grow ....

Its time to turn this around: ... STOP being so insulting and degrading towards your fellow Democrats ....

[VoteClark]

19. My response

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=104&topic_id=197370&mesg_id=197625&page=

This is why? I have not started a bad thread against Dean in a while. But when I see this. You will see more of these.

:kick:
J4Clark

[TreasonousBastard]

25. So, why is it necessary...

to answer bashing posts with more bashing posts?

Let it be, ferchrissakes.

To much fuel. Too much fire.

Too much bashing and too little substance.

[VoteClark]

30. I honestly do think asking who is qualified to be president is an issue

I am not calling Dean a liar, a twit, a moron, or anything. I am asking if he is qualified to be President having ONLY been Governor of Vermont.

I think it is a serious question. Sorry, but I do. Others may view it otherwise, but I find it a legit question.

:kick:
J4Clark

[TreasonousBastard]

39. Jefferson...

wasn't Governor of anything.

Clinton was Governor of Arkansas.

Chester A, Arthur was nothing but the head of the Customs House in NYC and got fired for abusing the spoils system. He somehow became Vice-President, then President when Garfield was killed, and actually did a pretty good job-- even doing his best to eliminate the spoils system. Publisher Alexander K. McClure recalled, "No man ever entered the Presidency so profoundly and widely distrusted, and no one ever retired ... more generally respected."

Questioning qualifications is reasonable, but there's a fine line between questioning qualifications and spoiling for a fight.

[jfxgillis]

43. Nice defense

I was about to say much the same.

One quibble, though. The Customs House was a much much MUCH more significant office in those days--remember, the Federal Government was basically financed by duties and tariffs at that time.

That office was probably as important as a Governor of Vermont is today .... or NATO Commander.

LAUGH.

[Khephra]

20. Clark is one of my favorite secondary candidates

But the name VoteClark is giving Clark a horrible taste--which I suspect is part of VC's MO.

[sujan]

16. so why is clark more qualified?

It's not like he was ever elected by the people to get the post he assumed. He was appointed, sorta like Bush.

[VoteClark]

26. being elected doesn't qualify someone for an office it just means they can

win an election.

George Bush was elected Governor of Texas, do you think he is smart enough to run Texas? Nope.

The President needs to be able to:
Run the Military
Preform diplomatic duties
veto and sign legislation
write the budget

Run the military he is qualified for.
Diplomatice duties he has done for many years
Veto and sign legislation anyone can do
He has written the US budget beofore.

Those are the main reason. And thanks for a reason question.

:kick:
J4Clark

[sujan]

28. ?????

LOL. So you think Dean is like Bush.

Ok. I buy it.

Aside that, your man Clark has tried to run the military and very ineffectual way at that.

Your man Clark did:
Run the Military
- Lacklustre at that
Preform diplomatic duties
- None
veto and sign legislation
- None
write the budget
- None

He seems to be the least qualified candidate in the field right now assuming that he decides to run as a 'democrat'.

[VoteClark]

35. Your are incorrect

Clark established lots of diplomatic efforts in NATO and Eastern Europe.

He wrote the US Budget when he worked in the White house for two years. That is what he did, he had a degree in Economics too, from Oxford as a Roades Scholar

He ran military bases, platoons, and the entire NATO military.

He never did sign or veto legislation on the state level. But he did for military orders, promotions, and supplies, which is the national level.


:kick:
J4Clark

[sujan]

37. i beg to differ

Clark established lots of diplomatic efforts in NATO and Eastern Europe.

- Nope

He wrote the US Budget when he worked in the White house for two years.
- No he didn't.

On the rest you're trying hard to put farcical stuff.

So, the point being, your man Clark neither has the necessary experience or the qualification to be an elected leader. Not to mention the fact that he's a wanted war criminal for his indiscriminate bombings in Yugoslavia.

[VoteClark]

50. You need to get your facts straight

That is like saying the Dean was not Govenor of Vermont.

Clark worked in the Office of Budget and Management in the White House as the Special Assistant to the Director of OBM for two years. That is FACT.

He worked with over 14 nation in NATO. That is FACT

The rest of what you said is not worth commenting on.

:kick:
J4Clark

[dfong63]

57. winning the election is the first requirement

being elected doesn't qualify someone for an office it just means they can win an election.

but, winning elections is after all the foremost requirement of electoral politics. Dean has a track record of doing it; Clark doesn't. and as a consequence of being elected, Dean has a track record of governing, again something that Clark doesn't.

no matter how small Vermont may be, it's bigger than anything Clark has ever been elected to.

how arrogant of Clark to expect the dem party to instantly give him their loyalty, when Clark steadfastly refuses to declare which party he is loyal to. how arrogant again, to expect the same party to stake everything on a man who has never run for office.

[dudeness]

18. draw the line here

because if I was el prez

the US would ..

cut defence spending
ban monetary contributions to political parties (each party would have the same amount from the public purse)
sign off on the Kyoto protocols
endorse the International Criminal Court
ratify the non proliferation treaty (nuclear, biological weapons)
abide by International Labour Organisation standards
just for starters..

pity Im an australian..but that didn't stop murdoch..

[VoteClark]

21. I thought Dean opposed the Kyoto treaty? Maybe not, but I thought he

said. Not sure why or if it is true.

:kick:
J4Clark

[sujan]

22. be sure

Your 'thought' doesn't count.

[w4rma]

24. Dean on Kyoto

…
Third, America should lead the way toward international environmental cooperation. In an act of diplomatic and environmental petulance, President Bush gave the back of his hand to the Kyoto Protocol. In doing so, he squandered much of America’s moral authority. On issues such as global warming, population growth, and overfishing, we have missed opportunities to demonstrate America’s ability to lead. Pollution doesn’t stop at the borders and neither should environmental policy.
…
http://www.deanforamerica.com/site/PageServer?pagename=policy_statement_environment

[VoteClark]

27. So Dean is for it?

I thought he opposed it for job reasons, not the environment.
Do you have something that says he is for it? Everyone knows Dean says he is for the environment. But, has he said, "I am for the Kyoto tready"?

Thanks.

:kick:
J4Clark

[w4rma]

36. More Dean on Kyoto

…
Few of the Democratic contenders themselves unconditionally support Kyoto as written.
…
Former Vermont governor Howard Dean has sided most closely with the Bush administration, endorsing the National Governors Association policy, which opposed the Kyoto Protocol unless it included mandatory emissions cuts for developing countries. The policy recommended that the United States "not sign or ratify any agreement that would result in serious harm to the U.S. economy."

Of the Democrats now running, only Ohio Congressman Dennis Kucinich has stated, "the U.S. must ratify the Kyoto Protocol."
…
http://www.commondreams.org/headlines03/0610-01.htm

[w4rma]

41. More indepth Dean on Kyoto

…
"We must show the world we are willing to step up to these challenges around the world and in our own backyards," Blair said. "America must listen as well as lead."

Doing that, we have to work toward a version of the Kyoto Protocol that we can adopt. Sure there are issues with Kyoto it must be strengthened significantly but nothing that can't be solved if we engage other nations directly in dialogue. We need to work with the community of nations, including both developed and developing countries, to meet this challenge. Other global challenges facing us that we must address together with the world community include resource conservation, rain forest management and preserving our ocean's ecosystems.

The U.S. must pursue an environmental agenda as an essential element of international trade agreements. In the future, all of our trade agreements should have strong and enforceable environmental protections built in. And, where possible, I will work as well to reform anti-environmental provisions in existing treaties.
…
http://www.lcv.org/Campaigns/Campaigns.cfm?ID=1748&c=4

[VoteClark]

52. He opposes it, but I think for good reasons, it is not strong enough

[dkf]

29. Just saw Clark on Scarborough country

and he looked really good. I am a Dean supporter and will not be swayed but I would be happy with either of these guys. In fact, these are the only two guys I could support wholeheartedly.

To Vote Clark, who hates Dean with a passion: I don't think General Clark would be very happy with what you are doing. He just seems to deserve more dignified behavior from his supporters. I bet if he saw what you were doing he'd ask you to stop.

Don't you think he deserves better than that?

I also feel that if Clark were to win, a lot of Dean supporters could be very enthused about Gen. Clark. So why are you trying so hard to piss us off? Dean supporters and Clark supporters should be natural allies as they complement each other so well. C'mon, they'd be dynamite on the stump together.

[VoteClark]

31. DOn't you think Dean deserves the same thing?

Read this:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=104&topic_id=197370&mesg_id=197625&page=

You call your dogs off, I will stop too.

Deal?

:kick:
J4Clark

[dkf]

48. I would never say anything like that about Clark.

I really like him. And I think that Dean likes him too. I bet Dean and Clark would get along really great and that's what hurts so much seeing Deanies and Clarkies so rabid at each other.

Maybe you would convince more people with honey than with vinegar unless all you're doing is venting for your own sake (which I have done a few times myself).

If you could go on more about Gen. Clark's positives, like what inspires you or what he said or did then it would attract people to Gen Clark instead of repelling them. Especially since you actually call yourself VoteClark and have his icon right next to your name you are basically representing him.

[VoteClark]

53. Well Put. But,

I can't sit back while tons of Dean supporters attack Kerry, Kucinich, and now Clark. See my post below.

I have actually posted more positive posts on Clark. But they get about 10 replies and die, about 1/3 of the replies being negative.

The only ones that people click on are the negative ones. Sad, but true. That is way is works. Nobody wants to hear how great a candidate is. If they did, Clark would win hands down. But he is getting attacked from every direction, just like Kerry was.

:kick:
J4Clark

[Booberdawg]

32. WHY ARE YOU PEOPLE FALLING FOR THIS CRAP!!

Just hit the Alert and IGNORE him.

[acerbic]

38. Tried alert, but it just doesn't work

Freeping the candidates is now some kind of weird sacred cow around here...

[Aaron]

42. If Clark doesn't declare by the first primary maybe his supporters will

stop trying to draft him? I'm really not clear on how long they're planning to wait. Clinton declared in October IIRC, so maybe its just another month and a half?

[snyttri]

33. anyone can be president, it's being a candidate that's hard

If George the Second and Reagan can be President then anyone can. Puppeteers can do all the work.

Dean has shown many indications that he doesn't have the political skill to get through the $250,000,000 of mud that will be slung.

Why didn't Dean know enough not to dismiss Bob Graham as "second-tier"? Bob Graham is far more accomplished than Dean (governor of Florida twice and 2 0r 3 elections as senator, respected expert on intelligence). Bob Graham has been the most popular Democrat in Florida politics for years or decades. Dean's national prominence is based on surpassing expectations while the first primary is still 5 months away. The insult to Graham shows that his success has gone to his head. How much political skill does it take to know you don't publicly belittle a key elder member of your party? Democratic candidates cannot campaign off of cue cards, they have to be able to think on their feet.

[moondust]

34. VoteClark: The General does not want you on his team.

You lack the dignity and respect necessary to qualify. Find somebody else to embarrass.

[VoteClark]

49. Oh, yes, I am the only one negative about a candidate! Read this!

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=197270

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=197270


http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=104&topic_id=189376&mesg_id=190140&page=

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=104&topic_id=196849&mesg_id=196849

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=104&topic_id=196849&mesg_id=197168&page=


http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=104&topic_id=196849&mesg_id=197132&page=

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=104&topic_id=196849&mesg_id=197132&page=

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=108&topic_id=20334&mesg_id=20334

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=108&topic_id=20334&mesg_id=20340&page=

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=108&topic_id=20334&mesg_id=20353&page=

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=108&topic_id=20332

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=108&topic_id=18512&mesg_id=18615&page=

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=108&topic_id=18512&mesg_id=18700&page=

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=108&topic_id=18512&mesg_id=18700&page=

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=108&topic_id=18252

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=108&topic_id=16342

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=108&topic_id=14865&mesg_id=14865

[moondust]

54. You know your post is derisive. n/t

[bowens43]

44. He's certainly

more qualified then Clark who has NEVER been elected to ANY position. The more you post crap like this the morte certain I am that Clark will never get my vote. Instead of attcking other candidates try posting some info supporting yours , if you can.

You have completely turned me off on clark.

[regnaD kciN]

46. So...

...which larger-than-Vermont state was Wesley Clark governor of?

:crazy:

[deacon]

47. about 1,000 times more qualified than bush ever was n/t

[opihimoimoi]

51. After 3 years of the NOSE MINER and you ask about DEAN?? You surely JEST

BWAHAAHAHAHAAAAAAAAHAHA

[TheWatcher]

55. Guys Come On.....WAKE UP!!!!!

WHY are you taking this guys BAIT?....

WHY are you feeding his threads?.....

WHY can't you see this guy for what he is.....

WHY doesn't someone call him what he is?.....

D-I-S-R-U-P-T-O-R

Once again.....

Look at the threads he starts, the short divisive replies, the obvious baiting nature and the DELIBERATE playing one group against another.....This guy is a CLASSIC disruptor, and I maintain as I have in THREE other threads tonight, that this person has NO interest in this forum other than to disrupt the community and cause trouble.....

My GOD this guy is playing you.....I know because I am so new that my observation will probably not count for much, but for the people who have been here a long time and can see what I see, CALL THIS GUY ON HIS NONSENSE.....As for me this waste of EVERYONE'S Time is on Alert First, then on to Ignore.....

As I said in another thread this evening, there is simply too much at stake in this country to waste time on people who definitely have no other interest than disrupting those who actually CARE about changing it.....

Maybe the others aren't willing to see it V.C., but you don't fool me.....

Play all the games you want.....

Ultimately you are like everything else that is of your ilk.....

You make a lot of noise, but ultimately you are IRRELEVANT.....

Please Fade Away.....

[ClintonTyree]

56. Congratulations VoteClark!!!!!!!

After nearly two years as a paying member of this board, you're the first person I've decided to put on "ignore". You have 775 posts and a great majority of them are counterproductive diatribes about the evils of Howard Dean. I've had it. I've alerted the Mods (what good that will do remains to be seen.) This board USED to be a place where people could honestly and politely exchange ideas and was not spammed by immature idol worshipers. People such as yourself have ruined this forum and have caused many good people to leave this once great bastion of progressive ideas, simply to avoid nonsense such as your's. By the way, why isn't there a star next to your name? Talk the talk, walk the walk.

[lazarus]

58. okay, this is enough

I'm locking this down.