DU: Read this BBC explanation of Iraqi resistance...interesting.

[tedzbear]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/3148223.stm

This article makes me think the situation in Iraq isn't as hopeless for * as I thought.
Unless the Shiite majority start getting mad at us, * may have a much more stable situation than Johnson had with Viet-nam.
A stable Iraq bodes well for the Iraqis, but not for us DU members who fear the re election of the unelected *.
:scared:

[madfloridian]

1. An unstable Iraq hurts everyone.

I don't want him re-elected, but now that we have a new country....we darn well better make it ok.

Instability there is dangerous to all.

[bowens43]

2. Huh?

Now that the US has launched an illegal attack on and occupation of Iraq, we hope for the best outcome for the Iraqi people. They have suffered at because of US policies and actions for far too long.

Of course we want the idiot out but not at the expense of the Iraqi people.

[Capt_Nemo]

3. I think there is a lot of spin in this article

How about some simple truths like:
When one country is invaded, the occupiers become targets of
resistance movements.
It happened in colonial wars, it happened in WWII, it happened in
Afghanistan, it happened in Lebannon.
It's happening in Iraq.

[Feanorcurufinwe]

4. If the US were invaded I would fight the invaders

no matter who was President.

It's so freakin' obvious no wonder the Repubs can't understand it.

[alcuno]

5. It's not that we want Iraq to be unstable, however, to be honest

I don't want it to be easy. I don't want them to get the idea to go and do it again. That said, I don't see how this article brings hope. The Shia are waiting us out. Americans consider a long time to be a month. That concept of time is completely different from theirs.

[Friar]

6. you're kidding, right?

A stable Iraq does not bode well for "us"? That's sounds like typical VRWC blather that Dems want a bad economy.

We hate Bush's fascism but we also want the Iraqi people to be freed from the yoke of tyranny, whether Saddam's or Cheney's.

[Jacobin]

7. I hope Iraq is able to free itself from the clutches of U.S. tyranny

and imperialism.

We are there to rape their resources, plain and simple.

If we want their oil, we should pay for it, not steal it.

[never cry wolf]

8. i understand

and agree that i want no peoples to suffer any more than necessary but in the bigger picture maybe the feeling deep down inside of me is that anything that may give shrub a bump in the polls or make the possibility of 4 more years more viable seems like a bigger evil. the most dangerous people in the world control the world's mightiest army and economy.

i really am sorry to say this but i DO want everything they tough to turn to crap and for that to become so obvious the the ingnorant american people following so blindly that they can't throw their sorry asses out of office and preferably into prison soon enough.

the sooner we can restore sanity to our government the sooren we can make amends the right way, and i am afraid that we will owe BIG time.

[Merlin]

9. It doesn't matter what DUers "want". America will pay for Iraq BIGTIME.

The invasion of Iraq was an act of brazen impudence. It flies in the face of our national traditions. The American people supported it. They (we) will now pay the price of suffering the natural consequences of our foolish arrogance. We will now reap what we have sown.

I do not hope for peace in Iraq. Not at all. I do not hope the Iraqi people succumb to an external invader. I hope they rage against the machine! I hope the fight and scream and bitch and moan and battle until they throw off the yoke of US oppression.

As JFK said, America must always support the efforts of every nation in defense of its own freedom.

Anyone who didn't predict this was smoking loco weed. Anybody who didn't see this coming understands nothing of human nature and knows nothing of history.

I hope Bush and all his cohorts choke on their despicable, criminal invasion. May they rot in hell.

[never cry wolf]

10. Bravo Merlin,

Very well put!!!

[Friar]

11. knowing the Iraq invasion

is a disaster and hoping it is are two different things. Of course it's a disaster and the Iraqis and ourselves are suffering and will continue to suffer for it. But to hope for it? Puh-leeeze.

[never cry wolf]

12. what would be the worse scenario?

another 2 years of disaster in iraq, bad press for shrub and the neo-cons, unrest at home and calls to bring em home, pressure on even repug congressmen to look again more closely at the whole damn thing, exposure and a dem prez and congress in 2004 followed by full UN participation in rebuilding a democratic iraq and their oil money really going towards that end.

or

a calmness settles over that country and this. the boy kings numbers start to spike again. wolfowicz and cheney come on faux and claim they knew it all along, the neo-cons are emboldened into iran or syria and keeping their puppet control over iraq and it's oil as they and their repuq congress is swept into another term.

i realize there is alot of "in between" that is possible there but in my mind the best thing in the long run for the iraqis, americans and the world in general is to get these fascists out of office. i agonize over every one of our soldiers deaths but at the same time want to shout in wolfies face "where's you cheering crowds and flowers, asshole!!!!" and hope the rest of the country starts to feel the same way.

[laura888]

13. what would you hope if it was your own country?

If we were invaded and our infrastructure went caput and our invaders were wandering the streets with guns, would you hope that things normalized knowing the invaders were stealing our resources?

Or would you continue to be a "freedom fighter" until they left?

My vote is with Merlin.

[never cry wolf]

15. i'm with you

taht's my point, apparently poorly made tho it was.

[laura888]

17. not poorly made...

<smile>

just that your response lacked forceful conviction - sounded like you did a lot of soul-searching.

Your response is probably much more palatable to those who are not sure on this issue.

[never cry wolf]

18. yes,

it is not easy for me to admit that i wish for strife and death but in this case more of that in the short term will spare an even greater amount in the long term, IMHO.

[tedzbear]

19. I disagree...

"The invasion of Iraq was an act of brazen impudence. It flies in the face of our national traditions."

What history book have you been reading?? What about our genocidal conquest of the American west in the nineteenth century when we slaughtered hundreds of thousands of native Americans for their land under our "manifest destiny?"
What about the Mexican American war?
Our occupation of the Philippines?
The "bay of pigs" disaster via Kennedy himself!
Viet-nam?
Nicaragua?
And probably much more imperialistic behavior that I'm afraid is more of the norm than our much claimed but little earned democratic tradition.

I suggest you read more Noam Chomsky...

[Merlin]

20. If you read Chomsky than you should know better.

You should know that these military actions were all misrepresented to the American people as being other than what they were. Just as Iraq has been. The people have consistently been too stupid to figure this out in advance of each commitment with sufficient clarity to mobilize the resources to block the actions. Same way with Iraq.

Nevertheless, these actions--and especially Iraq--are not in keeping with our national traditions which at least nominally espouse freedom and self-determination and anti-imperialism.

Btw, JFK had damn little to do with the BoP farce. It was a con job initiated under Nixon's tutelage and pulled off by Allen Dulles. The goal was to suck JFK into an all-out invasion. Kennedy courageously refused to betray enlightened American principals (and payed for it later with his life). (Of course, the Bard of the Charles would rather be burned at the stake than acknowledge any good thing ever done by JFK.)

[tedzbear]

21. Right. Even so, I believe...

...the people are still responsible for these atrocities simply because we have a representative government for the people by the people. If we choose to stick our heads in the sand like the German people did under Hitler, than IMHO we are partners in the evils done. I don't buy your argument that the people are so gullible they are innocent victims of their chosen regimes. It is their choice to be apathetic, therefore they are not victims but accomplices.
:bounce:

[w4rma]

14. WTF! If you want to hope that things go badly in Iraq, then you need to

rethink the situation.

The fact is that Bush FUBARed this operation. It will be a campaign issue no matter what happens in Iraq.

[Merlin]

16. So what are you expecting? A miracle to save America's brashness?

Apparently many people think that what they hope for will have some kind of impact on what actually happens!

I'm sorry to disillusion those who believe this, but it just doesn't matter one bit what you or me or anybody hopes will happen.

It is inevitable that nature will take its course. We are going to pay for the natural consequences of what happens when a nation violates the rules of human nature, common sense, and settled concepts of international decency.

I myself hope that Bush and his boys pay the supreme price for what they have done.

With all due respect, w4rma, I suggest you may want to rethink the situation and join in that rather satisfying hope. Your fingernails will not fall out. I promise!