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Michael Moore believes in Oil Wars, some Arabic not translated

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TrogL Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-26-04 02:47 AM
Original message
Michael Moore believes in Oil Wars, some Arabic not translated
Edited on Sat Jun-26-04 02:55 AM by TrogL
I went and saw Fahrenheit 9-11 tonight with Ahknaten. He spent eight years living in the Middle East and speaks fluent Arabic. I run a website (see below) about Oil Wars so I have some perspective on the topic.

It was absolutely amazing to see how Michael Moore put everything together - all the little pieces I knew about and some that I didn't. If this doesn't win an Oscar for best edit he's been robbed.

At one point in the movie he briefly describes the war in Afghanstan as being about a pipeline and mentions the Unocal connection. Then he does an animated map showing the pipeline. I burst into tears and almost freaked because it's very similar to the map on my Oil Wars website (click the "signs" link at the very bottom). I'm convinced he got some of his information from there.

When the movie shifted to Iraq, Ahknaten fell apart. He was devastated by the pictures of the children and some of the talk in the background that wasn't translated - people calling to God and asking "where is God" and "God the great and He is not here" (literal translation). A lot of it doesn't translate well into English - you don't get the intensity. Ahknaten says you don't hear this kind of thing even at Muslim funerals - they say "it is God's will". Even in their worst grief they don't deny God.

When they invaded the college kid's house, the women were saying "try to hide him". Ahknaten has never heard any Muslim doubting that God was there. It's two hours after the movie and he's still upset and crying.

I hate going to theatres because of the unruly audiences. The only reason I go is if the kids want to see the latest Harry Potter or LOTR. I made an exception to see Fahrenheit 9-11.

About half way into the movie, the audience went dead quiet - you could hear a pin drop. There was none of the usual chatter and noise. People were forgetting to eat their popcorn. Ahknaten left his half-eaten. I could hear people crying and sniffing. I fell apart when Moore quoted Orwell at length. When something funny happened, people would laugh briefly, but rather than the usual chatter people would immediately shut up so as not to miss anything. There was one point during the movie where people applauded (which is rare for a Canadian audience) and there was applause at the end.

People leaving the show looked shaken and upset. Ahknaten bolted for the parking lot. When I got to the car, I drove to the far end of the parking lot, parked then disintegrated. It took us both about 10 minutes to calm down. Other people were sitting in the cars and not driving away - probably doing the same thing.

The Edmonton Journal (yes, we do get newspapers in "Dreadful Valley") did a half-page movie review (plus a second sidebar). The reviewer is frank with his hostility towards Moore's other movies but praises this one. "Fahrenheit 9-11 is a reminder that something is fundamentally wrong with the system we're exporting to the heathens...Now, if only we could vote in presidential elections."

Ahkanten has asked me to tell you that he thinks Dubya should be charged with war crimes and hung with piano wire. He doesn't agree with execution but in this case he feels it's right. It's the first time he's ever said that about execution. It totally violates his Buddhist beliefs. Ahknaten has Iraqi friends that moved back to Iraq from Egypt. He doesn't know where they are.
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Moonbeam_Starlight Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-26-04 02:50 AM
Response to Original message
1. My goodness
I do agree with Ahkanten's ideas about what should be done with bush and they violate my Christian beliefs.

But I surely know how he feels. The Iraq parts were the worst to me. The worst.
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Slickriddles Donating Member (157 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-26-04 02:56 AM
Response to Original message
2. Thanks for the Religright link n/t
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HuskerDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-26-04 03:11 AM
Response to Original message
3. I will pray for his friends, may God be with them
My greatest hope is that a truly sovereign Iraq will charge Bush with war cirmes in the international community.
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jeff30997 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-26-04 03:35 AM
Response to Original message
4. I'm speechless...
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anarchy1999 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-26-04 03:57 AM
Response to Original message
5. The scene with the Iraqi woman screaming her grief was difficult.
Trogl,
I agree with your friend. This entire administration is guilty, in addition they have committed many of our military to being found guilty as well.

On another note as to how moved you were and your friend were. My dear, sweet, much beloved by many, husband got hit much in the same way. We went with a very large group and we paid for 8 others to go. Afterwards we were gathered with many of our friends in the lounge at the theater having a drink and discussing the film. After about 15 to 30 minutes he told me he was about to lose it, and the next thing I know I look over and he was crying. It took him several minutes to recover. The soldier's mom wrecked him. A couple of our friends' noticed but were all very discreet and just asked me if he was okay or what was wrong. On the way home he was so sorry for crying and so embarrassed our friends had seen him breakdown (he is a real rock in the activist community), I told him not to feel badly, it just made him all the more human and that much more a person to be loved.
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TrogL Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-26-04 03:59 AM
Response to Reply #5
6. What really pissed me off
was some of the people coming out of the theater laughing and chatting as if nothing had happened.

Are people truly that shallow?
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thebigidea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-26-04 04:02 AM
Response to Reply #6
8. oh, I wouldn't be that harsh on them.
Edited on Sat Jun-26-04 04:11 AM by thebigidea
People react differently, humor is a pretty good defense mechanism in the face of horror.

I laughed and cried, but exited singing "Leeeet the mighttttyyyy eaaaagllleeee soaaaar!"
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anarchy1999 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-26-04 04:35 AM
Response to Reply #8
12. Another frightening ugly moment! Ashcroft singing! And then the voters
preferred a dead man. That was funny.
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anarchy1999 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-26-04 04:14 AM
Response to Reply #6
11. Ummm, yes. But also, many of the group I was surrounded by know
most of this so the laughter and chatter coming from our group were from things that we remembered and were laughing about. Like the "fool me once", or the "thanks, now watch this drive". Most of the audience I was with was absolutely filled with activists from all different organizations, I probably knew at least 1/4 and at least 1/2 I have seen at different protests and actions in this last year.
We try to find humor to survive and we've been living with the pain daily for too many years to count.

There were also many others there that once again made me really come home to the fact there are so many that are not happy, know something is very wrong and don't know what to do.

I also had the opportunity to see the beauty in the methodology of the "divide and conquer" technique that is being used so amazingly well. So many different groups all seperated by single issues or two or three.
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thebigidea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-26-04 04:01 AM
Response to Original message
7. excellent review...
Edited on Sat Jun-26-04 04:01 AM by thebigidea
"some of the talk in the background that wasn't translated - people calling to God and asking "where is God" and "God the great and He is not here"

That stuff was translated - I remember those lines during the Iraqi woman crying scene.

Yeah, my eyes got pretty misty.
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TrogL Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-26-04 04:04 AM
Response to Reply #7
9. Ank says they missed a lot
"where is God" was translated but not the other stuff
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thebigidea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-26-04 04:06 AM
Response to Reply #9
10. the Allah stuff was translated, but not the "hide him" line, yeah
Edited on Sat Jun-26-04 04:07 AM by thebigidea


Thanks for the perspective, and the heartfelt review.
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left is right Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-26-04 05:21 AM
Response to Original message
13. We are seeing it this afternoon, if it isn't sold out.
We are taking my dad, he wants to see it but he would be embarrassed to see a movie with his daughters if there is a lot of profanity in it. I know some of you will say that the profane thing is Bushco and you are right--but my dad is in his 80's and I would like to honor his sensibilities. Should we expect many of the "F-word" derivatives?
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Cheswick2.0 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-26-04 07:39 AM
Response to Reply #13
16. A few in the song the soldiers sing as they are firing off shot from their
tanks that is the only real use of the word. Warn your Dad about that.
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Crazy8s Donating Member (161 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-26-04 06:59 AM
Response to Original message
14. Just Curious
Something doesn't read kosher about this post. I'm new here, and I'm not one for flame wars, but I DO know quite a bit about Akhenaten (18th Dynasty Egyptian Pharoh), and I have my doubts that the name is currently in use in the middle east. The reference to Buddhist beliefs also stands out as odd, given the ancient Egyptian name and Ahknaten's apparent knowledge of Islamic beliefs, etc. TrogL, what exactly is your friend's background? I know something about the middle east and it's people (my sister-inlaw is married to a Saudi and lives there). As I said, I'm just curious.

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Cheswick2.0 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-26-04 07:41 AM
Response to Reply #14
17. The two names are different
what is your point?
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Cheswick2.0 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-26-04 07:34 AM
Response to Original message
15. Please tell your friend that we care about him and the people all over
the world. We are also devastated by what has happened. Tell him that my prayers are with him and his missing friends.
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Longhorn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-26-04 10:38 AM
Response to Original message
18. A very moving account. Thank you! n/t
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anarchy1999 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-26-04 02:13 PM
Response to Original message
19. Kick back to the top, more voices need to be heard.
n/t
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