Could Roosevelt have Stopped the Bombing of Pearl Harbor?

[VoteClark]

There has been lots of rumors about Roosevelt knowing about the bombing of Pearl Habor long before it happened.

We also have to admit that it was rather odd that every single modern Carrier was ordered away from the Pearl Habor before it was bombed and all our old ships and battleships that would not be used to any major degree were in port.

So did Roosevelt know about the bombing before hand?

Could he have stopped it from happening?

Should he have stopped it from happening? Knowing it would convience the American people to enter the war and thus put an end to Hitler and the Japanese world take over.

What do you think?


:kick:
J4Clark

[slor]

1. I have heard this as well...

from my conspiracy theorist friends, but they have failed to offer evidence besides calling me naive. I am a student of WWII history and I know of examples of secret missions that were designed to motivate the enemy to commit acts, thereby fostering a resistence movement, such as the assasination of Reinhard Heydrich by the British. I do believe that the British knew and decided to allow it to get our active participation into the war however.

[VoteClark]

3. What about the Carriers?

Do you think they just happened to move away from there? That is what makes me wonder. I am sure that British would not have said anything. They would have let an A-Bomb fall on LA to change our minds, they were desperate.

:kick:
J4Clark

[yella_dawg]

2. It is pretty much accepted (I think)

That Roosevelt egged on the Japanese to attack the naval base at Pearl Harbor. The US public was stongly reluctant to enter into another war in Europe, and Roosevelt believed that further delay in confronting the Axis forces was dangerous. He needed an excuse to rapidly commit the entire US military force to the war, and the Japanese were dumb enough to provide it. My understanding is that a diplomatic agreement was all but finalized concerning the dispute over the Sandwich Islands when the US suddenly presented a set of outrageous demands that were sure to humiliate and infuriate Imperial Japan. Effectively, MIHOP, with an evidence trail that made it look like LIHOP, which was then represented in the press as a terrorist attack. Hmmm...

In 1995, the family of the Naval Commander at Pearl Harbor finally suceeded in having his rank reinstated and his record cleared after he was disciplined for dereliction of duty after the attack. This was accomplished by an act of congress.

[VoteClark]

4. Was he gone on the day of the bombing or what?

[HawkerHurricane]

5. Here we go again

The anti-Roosevelt Republicans drag this out on a regular basis. No, I am not accusing you, I think you are merely repeating what you heard from them.

1. Aircraft Carriers: The American carriers were not in harbor on missions in the area. USS Enterprise missed the attack by a matter of hours, and in fact lost some aircraft to Japanese fighters and US anti aircraft guns when they showed up during the second wave. Why would anyone risk the all-important battleline to save the not important aircraft carriers? And I say that because that was the conventional thinking of the day! Aircraft carriers in 1941 were thought of as auxilaries, supporting the battleline, not as the primary units. IF any ships were going to be away from port to keep them safe, it would be the battleships, leaving the carriers to take the attack...
As for the carriers being 'modern', well the idea of carriers was new, and the Washington/London Naval Treaties prevented construction of new battleships, but not aircraft carriers. So the battleline was built during and just after WW1, while the carriers were built after that.
Nobody knew at the time (although many claimed it) that carriers were the wave of the future and that battleships were obsolete.
The carriers became the front line ships not because they were more modern, but because the battleships were unavailable, sitting at the bottom of Pearl Harbor!

If Roosevelt had known, he would have alerted the local commanders, and set up a ambush: every battleship at battle stations, every anti aircraft battery manned and ready, every fighter in the air, and let the Japanese stick thier head in a beehive. AND he would have had the carriers (assuming, which I don't, that he thought they were the important ships) set up north east of Oahu to ambush them, as they would 6 months later at Midway. THIS is what Roosevelt would have done IF he had known and wanted a excuse to go to war with Japan.

Could he have stopped it? Certainly, with very little effort. A proper reconnasaince around the islands, spotting the Japanese trail runs that fall (done by cargo ships following the excact route the Japanese First Air Fleet would follow) would have caused the Japanese to abort.

Roosevelt, from his own writings and recollections of conversations by his staff members, did NOT want war with Japan, he felt the major danger was from Germany and wanted no distractions from that.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

9. Thanks Hawker i was going to come get you but you were already

here!

[PATRICK]

6. How about this

I am no expert but what if...

Wrong Way Halsey hadn't taken the Carriers away in search of the Japanese. If the radar had been working or patrol flights had spotted the attackers. You might wonder if Halsey had orders if he didn't have a long mixed history of gut reaction moves including one later in the war that left a fleet exposed to a Japanese suicide attack that luckily chickened due to the courageous bluffing of the junk ships left behind.

That leaves the US still with outmoded and outgunned, uncoordinated response against a determined foe. We might have lost fewer antique battleships and fewer outdated airplanes but the loss of the carrier fleet MIGHT have been THE top Japanese priority- which would have delayed the war in the Pacific much much longer with the resulting entrenchment and difficulty raising the number of future casualties and A-Bomb usage even more.

It's like 911 IF Flight 93 had taken out Congress, yet we still credit them with a smashing success when real military casualties were not critical.

Also this post is reposting the old question about Roosevelt and Marshall. Anything new there? unlikely.

[JackSwift]

7. The consensus of historians

with tenured positions at major universities is that Roosevelt did not have advance warning, could not have prevented it, etc. I do not think that any reputable historian has a contrary position. This particular line of quesitioning is as crackpot as Holocaust denial, but unfortunately, not as socially unacceptable.


The short version is that the Japanese were engaged in expansive war in Asia from the mid-30s onward. We refused to sell oil to them and engaged in economic sanctions. In response to this they set their sights on Southeast Asian oil and felt the need to pre-emptively attack us. We knew that was a very likely possibility, but we did not know for sure they would do it, certainly not on Dec. 7. The radar on Oahu was new and not trusted. The intercepts indicating an attack would be made were not decoded and translated in time, and not clear enough as to target anyway.

The Army and Navy were, in any event, terribly unprepared for any such attack. That was not Roosevelt's responsibility. For example, the planes were lined up wingtip to wingtip, all in a nice row for straffing and fire jumping from one to the next. The rationale was they were close together and easier to guard from saboteurs.

[Redleg]

8. Wouldn't this be more relevant in another forum at DU?

Such as the "who cares" forum? It would be much more relevant to ask whether Reagan actually made an arms for hostages deal with Iran and asked Iran to hold of the release of hostages until after the election.

[VermontDem2004]

10. There is something interesting about it

There is this show "Beyond Belief" They show you 3 or 4 storys and you can guess if the story is true or false, at the end of the show they tell you if the story is true or false.

Now about one story I seen. There was a school principle, the school was laying cemete the other day and he noticed that while the cemete was wet. Someone wrote or it appeared to say "Remember Pearl Harbor." There was the kid who was prone to trouble making so the principle automatically assumed it was him, he took him into his office and like he expected, he denied any involvement. For hours he was lecturing and yelling at the kid, the entire time the kid just had an arrogant attitude. About 5 hours later one of the principle's assistants came into his office and said someone spray painted the term "Remember Pearl Harbor" on the principle's car. He then turned around towards the kid like he was going to hit but his assistant restrained him. The kid said how could I do that when I was in your office all day. This event took place 4 days of the actual Pearl Harbor. I stay tuned at the end of the show and the host said that this story actually did take place.

Now, about Roosevelt knowing about Pearl Harbor before it actually happened, I don't actually know but I did hear rumors.