What the F*** has Nader done in the past 3 years...

[devilgrrl]

... besides cozying up to Grover Norquist and snickering at Al Gore - that allots him the right to run for President? And why should anyone vote for him? :mad: :mad:

Come on! Let's hear it! :mad: :mad:

[Lindacooks]

1. Absolutely nothing

That's what made me hate him even more after Debacle 2000. Here he whined over and over again about how Dems and Repukes were one and the same, and then not a peep when chimpy et al try to ruin this country and the world by polluting us to death, driving us into bankruptcy, undermining our civil rights and right to privacy, and finally killing and maiming thousands around the world in wars started by LIES.

[devilgrrl]

4. Thank you!!!!

For awhile there I thought it was just me.

[Lindacooks]

57. You're welcome, and thank you too!

[Fenris]

2. And you're a fiery one too!

;)

:loveya:

[Loonman]

3. He's like Tooms on X-Files

Except he rises every 3 years to feed on the brains of idealistic college students with trust funds.

[hlthe2b]

5. I am really curious how many "nonrepentant " Nader supporters there

really are and what their possible reasons/justificaion/rational objective might be. I'd also love to know how many of these are actually REPUG "wolves in sheep clothing," and how many will actually vote for Nader in November as a strategy to nip enough votes away to let Bush* squeak in. That strategy strikes me as a bit risky for them, especially in the battleground states where Bush may need every vote...

[ulysses]

71. not supporting him this year, but checking in.

Still haven't broken out the sackcloth and ashes over 96 and 2000.

[Forkboy]

6. What could he do?

He's not in power :shrug:

Now the Dems,that's a different story....

[ibegurpard]

28. HERETIC!

Get with the program! :spank: :P

[leftistagitator]

31. Well, he could do what's necessary to build a Party

Raise money, create grassroots organizations to support him, build up state level support, the things a person does when they are actually trying to win an election and not just fuck it up for those he's politically closest to. The Dems have been doing those things, because they are trying to win. I'm not sure what this "power" your talking about that the Democratic Party is in, because last I checked Rethugs own both Congresses, the Presidency, and the judiciary. The only thing they could do is temporarily stymie the damage Bush* can cause, which they've been doing with mixed results. Please, do tell me what kind of initiatives they could have passed in the current circumstances?

[Name removed]

106. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Forkboy]

107. love those liberal values!

:thumbsup:

[FlemingsGhost]

7. Provided angry neophyte DUers, a boogieman.

Have at it, folks.

Whoooooopeeeeeeeeeee .....

[sangh0]

9. Wow, even the Naderites can't come up with ANYTHING

All they can do in their "defense" is to attack DUers.

Yep, we're the ones who are scared of boogymen. The BFEE is just a bogeyman. Tweedledee and Tweedledum are the REAL threat.

:crazy:

[ibegurpard]

50. snarf!

:P

[2Design]

8. he is not a man of action......just a spoiler

[VOX]

10. Zero. Zip. Zilch.

Since Ralphie's become a parasite, he hasn't had a Democratic presidential candidate to feed off of since 2000.

[robbedvoter]

11. Reorganized the NBA! Lakers wouldn't have lost without his help!

While Gore spoke against war, nader was bravely fighting the NBA.

[noiretextatique]

12. a better question: what has bush and the republican party done

in the past three years? perhaps that will help you FOCUS.

[devilgrrl]

25. Nice job NOT answering the question.

:nuke:

[noiretextatique]

35. look...who has had more of an impact on america and the world

bush, inc and the republican party...or ralph nader? who needs to be defeated in november, if we have any hope of regime change...bush, inc or ralph nader? kerry understands who his real opponent is...too bad so many of you still don't get it. nader will be LUCKY to get 5% of the vote (and that's being generous), but you folks act like he's a bigger threat than even bush, inc. FOCUS.

[devilgrrl]

39. Ralph Nader is a gasbag and has done absolutely nothing...

for anyone but himself. Hanging around right-wing assholes, attending Grove Norquist's wednesday meetings, he's an enabler, a flunky, a tool... so don't you tell me to focus...GIT!

[noiretextatique]

46. continue with this juvenile character-assasination

i don't agree with everything nader does, but i think the trashing of this man here is shameful. reminds me of the article "america's pathetic liberals" about WHY the left is impotent in this stupid ass country.
yes...you are doing really important work :eyes:

[Forkboy]

48. Most nader haters are fond of simplistic thinking

and just want a back pat from fellow simpletons.

[Lindacooks]

58. Uh, no

we are good at math, though, and we understand that the votes Nader took away from Vice President Gore helped put chimpy in the white house.

And quit slandering us.

[Forkboy]

60. Thanks for the chuckle

the votes were never counted so no one's votes had any impact.

And as for the slander charge....LMAO :eyes:

[noiretextatique]

64. so...it seems you were right, forkboy

:hi: per usual :D

[Forkboy]

66. I dont know about per usual

If I'm right about something I'd start checking for planetary allignments if I were you :)

:hi: :loveya:

[noiretextatique]

68. LOL...you are always RIGHTEOUS

even if you aren't always right. i appreciate the company :loveya:

[Name removed]

84. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Forkboy]

87. And people who tell others they are on ignore

are full of themselves because no one cares.

[Justice]

52. Nader Is Not Listening To Reason

No one wants to trash the man, but pleazzeeee, he is not listening to anyone - he is thinking only about himself.

The volume will get louder and louder until he pays attention.

[ibegurpard]

54. REASON?

I've heard a lot of shit about Nader but reason hasn't had much part in it.

[LoZoccolo]

78. You're pulling a Sharpton.

Remember when Dean got attacked from the "left" with disingenuous charges from Sharpton? You're doing the same thing right now.

[noiretextatique]

65. what does nader have to GAIN by doing this?

this is possibly the MOST idiotic of all the idiotic arguments as to why he is running. so tell me...besides being an asshole and an egomaniac...why would this man run for president, especially since so many people don't want him to run?

[BillZBubb]

49. It is really sad to see someone make a post like yours.

When the electorate is nearly evenly split, any candidate who grabs even a few percentage points is critical. Look at 2000. Partially because of Nader, we got four years of Chimp. Saint Ralph took enough votes in several states to give Chimpy a "victory". To fail to recognize the Nader threat is naive in the extreme.

This time, given the probable Repug fraud, Saint Ralph will once again be a Bush* enabler. Along with all the nimrods who vote for him.

F**K NADER!

[LoZoccolo]

77. That's the same question.

Because Nader is effectively a Republican.

[Voltaire99]

13. LOL! Your post is amusing

Instead of complaining about Nader, you might well ask: what has John Kerry done besides voting for Bush's ruinous policies?

Nader is one of the foremost proponents of vigorous US democracy--not the pale imitation thereof offered by corporate politicians. He writes frequently on major issues such as regulation, civil liberties, and war for The Nation and national syndication, while bringing litigation against government and business malfeasers.

And that is in addition to his ceaseless civic activities. It was Nader, not Kerry, who went to Enron's hometown for a hugely-attended televised town meeting with Phil Donahue to lead cheated former employees in efforts to hold Lay and Co. accountable.

And it's Nader, not Kerry, who is sanely arguing for US withdrawal from Iraq. Kerry, of course, is foolishly calling for more US troops.

You might not like Nader; no problem. Why don't you look up the Harper's Magazine profile from 2000 by Lewis Lapham--it might not change your mind, but at least you'll be able to say you're informed.

[sangh0]

15. What Kerry has done

Kerry has helped the Dems:

1) defeat right-wing judicial nominees
2) Limit Bush* tax cuts
3) Forced some PATRIOT Act to expire
4) Prevent Bush*'s overtime rules from going into effect
5) Reversed the FCC's media-corp-friendly rules for media consolidation
6) defeat Bush*'s proposal to increase arsenic in our water
7) hold off Bush* plan for a Constitutional amendment banning gay marriage
8) prevent drilling in ANWR
9) Stopped Cheney's energy plan

All off the top of my head. Now tell us what Nadir did. All you mentioned was that he's written articles and said things.

[tandot]

17. There are a lot of people who write "frequently on major issues..."

that still doesn't make them qualified to be President.

[Zero Gravitas]

19. Kerry

unlike Nader has built a political campaign that has a chance of succeeding. the MOST Nader can hope for is to prevent Kerry from being elected. That says it all. Nader is there to try and spoil the race for the Democrats nothing more, nothing less.

If you want to see Bush out of the White House, vote for Kerry. Otherwise vote for who ever you like, even a giant masturbator like Nader.

[Renew Deal]

32. Nice to not actually answer the question.

Slick deflection

[tandot]

14. I am with you, devilgrrl

As far as I know, DU still stands for DEMOCRATIC UNDERGROUND. My main goal is to have Bush out of the White House. Nader and Nader supporters can kiss my ... .

[noiretextatique]

16. would that include republican nader supporters

who will take away votes from bush? just curious...

[tandot]

18. You mean those millions of Bush supporters who will suddenly

grow a conscience and vote for Nader? /sarcasm

[noiretextatique]

21. you didn't answer the question

i will add independents to the question...what if why vote for nader instead of bush? would you want them to stay home?

[tandot]

23. ANYONE who votes for Nader

can kiss my ...

I hope that makes it clear.

Let me add:
Nader has ZERO chance of becoming President but a good chance of taking away more votes from Kerry than from Bush. We DON'T know how many Republicans or Independents will ACTUALLY vote for Nader. Why risk it? This is just too important.

[noiretextatique]

27. such is the idiocy of blind hatred

any nader vote that would have gone to bush actually HELPS kerry. assuming, of course you want kerry to win :eyes:

[tandot]

33. I edited my previous post.

WHY risk it? Where is your proof that he would take more votes away from Bush than from Kerry. Can you guarantee it?

The future of America is at stake here. I don't gamble with that.

[noiretextatique]

42. i don't agree with his decision to run

i just understand that IF this is the system we have to play in, then we have to accept all the rules of the game. that includes the possibility that our candidate might have competition. otherwise...we are heading in the same direction as the fascists, who don't just disagree with people's voting choices, but actually disenfrancshise voters.
i also don't see that nader had broken any laws, or that he has friends in florida or on the supreme court...unlike bush, inc. i may not like his decision to run, but IF the election is fair, and IF all the votes are counted, i expect kerry to win, just as gore won.

[Zero Gravitas]

20. all zero of them?

Get a grip dude, there are few if any Republicans for Nader, at least those who actually intend to vote for him. The ones giving him money are doing so because Nader is an anti-Kerry spoiler, not because they will actually vote for him.

[noiretextatique]

22. so...there will be few, if any republicans voting for nader

what about independents that might vote for nader instead of bush? does your crystal ball tell you how they will vote too?

[mzmolly]

26. I'm wondering how Greens *supporting Nader* will vote if Cobb gets the

nomination? Will they continue with their party building efforts, or vote for Nader? He could end up really marginilizing the GP.

[noiretextatique]

29. unlike some others, i have no idea as to how people will vote

i did propose a "final solution" to purge potential nader voters, but my thread got deleted :D

[mzmolly]

34. Bummer, I'd like to have read it. Was it anything like the Florida voter

purge. ;)

[noiretextatique]

38. just an idea for the more insane nader-haters

to craft laws to ferret out and purge potention nader voters the way the republicans target potential democratic voters. it works for republican...so i figured democrats should try it. seems like the next logical step given all the hatred towards nader voters. come to think of it...hatred is why targetting certain voters for disenfranshisment works so well for republicans.

[tandot]

40. Nader has the right to run...and I have the right to dislike him for that

[mzmolly]

45. What would we do, check birkenstock stores for recipt/credit card info?

:evilgrin: Kiddink of course. As a latte drinkin Dean supporter, I couldnt resist.

"Perhaps there's a reason why Nader rallies seem so white, middle class, and disproportionately male; in short, so supported by those who wouldn't be hurt if Bush were in the White House."~Gloria Steinem.

And the Freeps sure love him! They even donate to his campaign? :P

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1145837/posts

[noiretextatique]

51. LOL...hey, i agree with you about this

the die-hard nader supporters i knew in 2000 were all white, and i agree with steinem's assessment. however...what does that really have to do with anything? are democrats any less selfish? i don't think so, to be honest. i think many white americans THINK their lives will be ok, regardless of who they vote for...that's certainly true of those who vote for bush. of course the rw will support competition to their main competitor.

[mzmolly]

53. Actually, I don't consider Dems selfish ...

... which is why I spose it's so hard for me to reconcile Naders run for office with his *progressive credentials* I just dont get him.

I do understand/respect David Cobb and his approach. I respect the Greens, but Nader has lost me somewhere.

The reason I brought it up was because (as Gloria pointed out) most Nader supporters won't really be much effected by the detrimental policies of the Bush Junta, (which makes their personal choice less daunting I spose?)

Peace Noiretblu. I always enjoy discussing the issues with you. :hi:

[noiretextatique]

55. but...doesn't that same argument apply to democrats

and republicans too? i think it does. the assumption with democrats is that they won't be as harmful as republicans, but many republicans who should know better can vote for bush thinking his destructive policies will not affect them. same with democrats...just to a lesser degree. democrats here talk about how we are "stuck" with iraq...who do they think will be going over there to die? probably NOT their children.
peace to you tom mzmolly...it's always nice to talk with such a rational person :hi: (even though i have my moments)

[mzmolly]

59. Actually, I really consider Dems to be basically pragmatic, not merely

*less harmful* ;) Your point on Iraq is well taken though, I am torn on that issue myself.

[Robin Hood]

24. He has helped to further the right wing agenda.

Meanwhile the dems have been trying to clean up the mess. And now he comes back to help Bush win his re-election. He's no progressive, he's a right wing tool.

[depakid]

30. Knee jerk Nader haters....

Maybe you could do a little research instead of acting out so viscerally- and making statements like "cozying up to Grover Norquist." As his beeen discussed many, many times here on DU, Nader and several people went to a meeting at Norquist's offices for two reasons:

1. To issue a challange to "anybody who calls himself a conservative or a libertarian and not a corporatist to join Nader's crusade against corporate fraud."

2. To learn more about the far right's superior organizational processes.

The latter point is particularly important because- in case some people haven't been paying attention- the far right has been KICKING OUR ASS for over 20 years now. Seems to me that it's long past time to start adopting some of their successful methods.

If you want to see what Nader's been up to (assuming that you don't read commondreams.org, which publishes his work on a regular basis) check out public citizen

http://www.citizen.org/

or your local PIRG

http://www.pirg.org/

While it's understandable that damn near everyone is pissed off about Nader's candidacy- the kind of reactions I see here at DU on a daily basis are not very thoughtful (or in some cases just flat out wrong). In either case, they don't do anyone much credit.

(edited for grammer)

[FlemingsGhost]

36. Amen, kid.

"While it's understandable that damn near everyone is pissed off about
Nader's candidacy- the kind of reactions I see here at DU on a daily
basis are not very thoughtful (or in some cases just flat out wrong). In ither (sic)case, they don't anyone much credit."

[tandot]

37. Running for President at a time like this might be "not very thoughtful"

either.

[depakid]

44. I'm inclined to agree

although I don't think the last word is in on that yet- it's possible that Nader will still throw his support behind Kerry- at least in the swing states.

I was furious when he decided to run, but after some reflection there are at least two silver linings. The firat is that with Nader in the race, the Kerry camp has to be a lot more careful about pandering to the right- which is something that they are very much inclined to do, despite the fact that it's proven to be a losing political strategy for over 10 years now. The second is that the stupid polls consistently overstate Nader's actual support, and will end up causing Bush to throw a lot of money away in states he has little chance of winning (e.g. Oregon).

[Cheswick2.0]

41. Nader doesn't have haters

He isn't Clinton. Lots of people have read all about Nader, listened to all the arguments and still think he is full of shit.
Knee jerk Nader lovers are just going to have to live with that.

[Forkboy]

43. Nader doesn't have haters

did you get that out with a straight face?

[mzmolly]

47. Too bad he'll destroy his progessive legacy by helping Bush win the

election. Not to mention being an all out ass. ;)

[Adenoid_Hynkel]

56. spoken out on the war, enron, bush's tax cuts, etc

organized huge superrallies following the election in various cities featuring a variety of progressive speakers including jello biafra, janeane garofalo, patti smith, dennis kucinich, molly ivins, and others

written two excellent books and a weekly progressive column

just because you didn't see it on cnn, msrnc, or fox doesn't mean it didn't happen

i saw the man four days after sept 11th and he gave the most moving call to arms against what bush and the right were about to pull. just after, al gore gave the infamous beaming smile and said 'george w bush is my commander in chief"

kerry over the last 3 years voted for the war in iraq, voted ofr the war in afghanistan, voted for the patriot act, etc

people who live in glass houses...

[mzmolly]

61. Nader wasn't in a position of accountability via a voting record.

Thus I would say the same thing "Nader's in glass houses shouldn't throw stones."

Especially since he is known for busting unions, and owning stock in the defense industry. As I said previously, it's a shame that he will ruin his progressive legacy with his duplicitous campaign.

[Forkboy]

63. But that post DOES answer the original question

Not the the original poster really cared anyways :shrug:

That's the whole point,and why this thread was stupid.Nader is not in a position of accountability.You seem to think that means he shouldn't be saying anything - Thus I would say the same thing "Nader's in glass houses shouldn't throw stones."

however,all of us here are in the same position as Nader and we speak out about things we feel are wrong,both within our party and without.Why can't Nader?

[noiretextatique]

67. he's an asshole, he's an egomaniac, he wants bush to win

he's out to destroy the democratic party...blah, blah, blah. take your pick :hi:

[mzmolly]

70. Now you've got it!

:P Yer coming around N!

Mild correction, he said he's out to *punish the democrats* not destroy the party. Though, I don't quite know what he means by that :freak:

[noiretextatique]

99. actually, i was referring to bush

:hi:

[mzmolly]

113. Dang, I thought you'd *seen the light!*

:P :hi:

[mzmolly]

69. He's free to speak out, but I'd respect his run for office more if he ran

for lesser office first. I am sorry if I sounded otherwise.

I had the same issue with Clark. I didn't want the General taking office without a record of decisions I could examine first, KWIM?

Of course I feel Nader is free to examine Kerry's record in office as well. And, I'm free to examine Mr. Nader's history.

My thoughts are in line with Gloria Steinem on this:

"He (Nader) was able to take all those perfect progressive positions of the past because he never had to build an electoral coalition, earn a majority vote, or otherwise submit to democracy." ~ Gloria Steinem

:hi:

PS
I think Ralph should have run for the Senate if he was *serious* about politics. Afterall, he's applying for the most powerful position in the world. I need more to the resume then lip service, especially when he contradicts himself on a regular basis. :shrug:

[Forkboy]

72. Thanks for your clarification

:hi:

I dont entirely disagree with that.Contrary to how it looks I dont like Nader either.

[mzmolly]

73. You betch babe!

You don't like Nader?! Hey ya fooled me u open minded librul you!

Peace my friend. :hug:

[CBHagman]

76. I've heard some of his press conferences.

And I still regard his words as hollow, simply because he could parlay what power he has into real change. He could choose an issue -- let's say universal health insurance -- and line up allies for an all-out assault on the current unsustainable system.

The problem is that Nader is primarily kvetching at this point, not mobilizing and not effecting the changes. He's 70 years old, for crying out loud, and doesn't appear to be line in for any administration appointments. He doesn't serve in any public office (say what you will, but at least Jerry Brown ran for mayor and won).

I think Nader is a little too in love with finding motes in the eyes of others and not checking out the freakin' beam sticking out of his own eyeball. Is it passive aggression? Narcissism? I don't know, but he's certainly altered the opinion I've had of him over a 35-year period.

[JustinF]

109. Exactly

People should actually look at the record before making threads like this.

[Hubert Flottz]

62. Hide!

Like Dick Cheney!

[ibegurpard]

74. Given left-leaning dittoheads a great reason to ignore the problems

in the Democratic Party.

[mzmolly]

75. LOL. Cheers to that!!!

:toast:

[LoZoccolo]

80. How will Nader do anything but pull the party to the center?

Seeing as these "left" voters are doing nothing but showing themselves irrational and impossible to get.

[Forkboy]

82. Nah,that's just your projection

I find when one actually speaks to greens like an adult (which automatically rules out many here) they are quite open to working with us.

But hey,if pissing on those to left of you puts the peas in your pod who are we to stop you?

[LoZoccolo]

85. How do you speak to someone like an adult who believes stuff like...

1. Nader will pull more votes from Bush* than Kerry.
2. Nader can pull the troops out of Iraq by losing the election.
3. There is little difference between the two parties.
4. It's OK to let right-wing SCOTUS justices sit on the bench for like 20 years as long as we get to punish the Democratic Party enough so they might change in four years.
5. Gore would have started the Iraq War.
6. It's bad that Kerry voted for things that Bush* supports, but we don't mind having another four years of Bush*.

Most people know this is bullshit - the impetus is on you to try to prove this.

[Forkboy]

88. There's no impetus on me to prove anything

I'm not supporting Nader,I'm voting for Kerry.

[LoZoccolo]

92. OK then.

But you have to admit, those are some dangerous lies, and I don't really know what to do about people who insist on repeating them.

[FlemingsGhost]

105. Shuts 'em right up, huh?

It's almost like they're disappointed.

[LoZoccolo]

86. Wait a second - I'm being irrational?

Where have you even tried to sway me to vote for Nader?

Does any Naderite here even try to sway Kerry voters, or is it all just people defending their own decision? If it's such a "rational" choice you should be able to export that rationality, shouldn't you?

[ibegurpard]

91. Ummm...

you're on another PLANET from the point I'm trying to make. I have no intention of voting for Nader or trying to get someone else to vote for Nader. What irritates the hell out of me, however, are simpletons who refuse to acknowledge the Democratic Party has big problems that will cause it continue hemorrhaging and just hurl epithets at Nader instead.

[LoZoccolo]

95. I haven't heard very many good tangible criticisms.

Mostly I hear the standard set of Nader myths.

If anyone wants to change the party, they have to change the actual voters. You should export your ideas about how things should be rather than complain about how candidates won't support ideas most people don't understand. If not enough people are solidly behind what you want, the support just isn't there.

[noiretextatique]

101. "the people" have their choices spoon-fed to them

by the media, pre-packaged by the major parties. there is NO ROOM for anything else in this environment. i agree with others that kerry is the best choice in this election, but i don't know if either party is prepared to truly work to put forth ideas that will benefit the people. those are the things people will support, if given a chance,
like universal healthcare.

[LoZoccolo]

114. Bah no way.

Are you telling me that something can't happen like, say, same-sex unions can't become a major issue with pretty solid Democratic support even though at most about 6% of people would register for them? Now that's effective activism. What Nader is doing is not.

[LoZoccolo]

115. This is not only effective, but essential.

You have to get good solid support for your initiatives anyways, because if you don't, the right-wing will make up any lie they want to about them and a lot of people are bound to believe it.

[MaryBear]

119. I say, noiretblu for President!

:hi:

Did you see Willy's post in Activism/etc forum? Are you gonna join us on Sunday?

[JVS]

79. He's older than 35, that gives him the right to run

If you don't like it go to North Korea

[LoZoccolo]

81. This is the United States of America, so that means...

...I can go ahead and call Nader an effective Republican all I want. If you don't like it go to North Korea.

[JVS]

83. This is America so I can say that Conservative Democrats are effective...

Republicans, so nyah nyah nyah

[LoZoccolo]

89. We're not running a conservative candidate.

And Nader is still effectively Bush*.

[JVS]

94. Maybe when Nader supports the Iraq war you'll be correct

[LoZoccolo]

96. Yes, Nader will stop the war by losing the election.

So a vote on a particular war is the one thing that makes you a conservative. I didn't know Pat Buchanan was a liberal!

Oh, and traditionally, interventionism is a liberal policy.

[JVS]

98. The question is did Kerry support imperialist agression

The answer is sadly yes.

[LoZoccolo]

110. The question is did Nader even get a chance to.

The answer is no.

[LoZoccolo]

112. Actually no he didn't.

He supported us attacking because of WMDs. Now the Bush* gang has this kind-of imperial philosophy - why give them a free pass to the White House?

And you still haven't answered my question - how will Nader stop the war by losing the election?

[Forkboy]

90. "If you don't like it go to North Korea."

Sounds like something Bush would say.

[LoZoccolo]

93. Sounds like something JVS would say.

I was just throwing it back at him.

[Forkboy]

97. You're right...JVS,that was stupid

sounds like something Bush would say.

Sorry LoZo.

[JVS]

100. You should have read more carefully

It wasn't stupid at all. It was fun. I enjoy using right-wing cliches in arguments where my opponent is taking a stance to the right of me. In this case someone thinks that Nader has no right to run, despite his posessing the constitutional right to do so. What a perfect opportunity to invite them to leave the democratic system altogether. Similarly when I hear people bitch about Income Tax I tell them that if they don't like it they should go to Russia, where taxes are much lower.

[name not needed]

103. Just because he can, doesn't mean he should

Nader has every right to run for President, despite the fact it will be a miracle if he gets 3 percent of the vote. But he should probably wait a little while or run for congress. I normally have no problem with Nader masturbating his ego like he is, but we can't afford that 2%, which could change the outcome of the election. Maybe if you would take your fingers out of your ears and stop singing nonsense you might understand that.

[JVS]

104. Yes you are correct. Perhaps he shouldn't run. But the question...

was "What has Nader done...that allots him the right to run for President?" The answer is simple, he has lived for more than 35 years and is was born a US citizen. As far as Kerry getting that 2% maybe if you want them you (not you personally, but dedicated Kerry supporters) shouldn't just spend great amounts of time spewing hatred at a respectable leftist. Attack Bush.

[LoZoccolo]

111. I didn't say Nader doesn't have a right to run.

That is a lie.

[JVS]

117. I never claimed that you said that,

So don't make up LIES about me.

Ther person who questioned Nader's right to run was the initial poster, not you.

[vetwife]

102. If you vote for Nader please consider this.....

It is your right but what have you gained?
What have you lost?
Integrity is good if you are free enough to enjoy it
We may not have another election
He has 0 chance of winning so what is the point?
He helps Bush...If you are progresive is that what your ultimate goal is..A Bush Cheney Victory?
A vote for Nader is just a vote for Bush...
Say your neighbor votes for Bush, you vote Nader and your other neighbor Votes Kerry or Bush. You still have thrown a vote to Bush.
It is simple math. Because the Bush vote of your neighbor cancels the Kerry vote of the other neighbor, so if they voted Bush..he is one up.
It is better to be wrong and strong than weak and right. Who said that?
Clinton I believe..because then you can right a wrong but if you are weak ...there is no respect.
Say you are doing a protest vote...What are you protesting..?
You are protesting who the American people chose to represent them?
What does that get you..Who knows? Nobody but Bush at the end of the day and he still wins by default if thou protests too much.
Once you have been disenfranchised as much as the CBC or a veteran or a family losing healthcare, and once another election is guaranteed, then its great to do a protest vote but you know what when Nader voters take us down the tubes with their protest then that is Dangerous. think about all of this before you stand on principle and write in your little Anne Frank Diary as the bombs burst in yourown backyard from the hatred the rest of the world feels for Bush. The rest of the world does not recognize Nader.
If Kerry is wrong...we will be the base..We will hold him accountability and we will get rid of him if he screws up. Count on it ! In the meantime..evict the one at 1600 Pa. Avenue. haven't you had enough of lies, propoganda and blood and Nader is part of the problem not the solution.

[JustinF]

108. He has done lots

He has run all of his dozens of public interest groups. He has spoken at a bunch of fund raisers for the Green Party. He's been writing numerous articles on issues that are important to America. He's been a very busy guy.

[dumpster_baby]

116. nader is THE major anti-neoliberal voice in America

That speaks for itself, and that is why he will get my vote here in Texas if he gets on the ballot and if Kerry is not in contention here in Texas.

[stavka]

118. Certainly hasn't shopped for cloths...