Favored Brand of Communism?

[Anarcho-Socialist]

Whether you admire or despise Communism, choose now: it's a poll! :hi:

[Nevernose]

1. Gonna have to be a liiiitle bit more subtle...(n/t)

n/t

[shraby]

2. I choose none

they are all despicable ways to live.

[Mayberry Machiavelli]

9. Reminds me of a Simpsons where Bart is looking at a "Where's Waldo" book,

where Waldo is just in the middle of the page waving at him.

"Man, he's just not TRYING any more!"

[AndyTiedye]

12. Breaking: Secret Russian Power Source Discovered!

It has just been discovered that most of the electric power in the former Soviet Union
has been provided, not by their aging nuclear power plants as had
been previously thought, but by the mechanical energy emanating
from Karl Marx's tomb, where Karl's body has been spinning continuously
for many years.
The Soviets were quick to harness this source of energy and kept it
secret for decades.

It is still operational today, which may explain Russia's lack of
concern over peak oil.

[Swamp Rat]

27. LOL!!!

Powered by a 'Karl Coil'

[Slickriddles]

39. Karl Marx is Buried in London, England

I don't believe he was ever in Russia and he died years before The Soviet Union was founded.

[Nevernose]

41. Must you deny all science?

First it's evolution, then global warming, and now the post-mortem occupation of Marx's corpse.

[disinfo_guy]

63. enough with the conspiracy theories already!

:eyes:

[Name removed]

3. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[LoZoccolo]

5. Hey The_Enlightenment, this guy's calling you a FReeper!

You can hit "alert" on him if you want; it's your right.

[DenverDem]

8. See, this guy learned the tricks.

I did not, however, call him a fascist repudlicker.

[Anarcho-Socialist]

29. I'm actually a social democrat

I'm not a Freeper. If you don't like the poll, that's your opinion. I'm not going to lose any sleep over it.

The poll is not saying or asking "communism is good", it's about choosing a preferred option if you had to. Look, I put a "I hate all communism" option just for you.

[DenverDem]

48. A social democrat?

That means you hang around with democrats?

If you are trying to say you are a democratic socialist, that would be the term. If you were one, you would probably know how to say it.

[disinfo_guy]

60. is that like a lifestyler democrat?

You know the lifestylers - they don't really care about the cause - they are just in it for the hot democratic babes!

[Anarcho-Socialist]

68. Your post is pure flame bait n/t

[DenverDem]

69. You're an expert on that.

Yawn.

[Anarcho-Socialist]

71. They're two different things. Perhaps...

...you can look in a political science textbook for more detail.

Democratic Socialists advocate whole-scale socialism through democratic means.

Social Democrats advocate reforming rather than replacing capitalism; their reforms have an emphasis on social justice and the Social Security net.

Here's a link for your pleasure.

http://www.wordiq.com/definition/Social_democrat

There, wrote it without flaming.

[kiahzero]

81. What a surprise

Someone who has no clue what they're talking about:
http://www.google.com/search?q=social+democrat&sourceid=firefox&start=0&start=0&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8

[AndyP]

4. how long till this thread ends up at freerepublic?

I say less than an hour. They will make fun of us and use this as "proof" we are all communist bastards and hate America. You know the song, sing along!

[LoZoccolo]

7. Ha I don't think so.

He says right up there it's whether you despise it or not. It's like choose your poison.

[Anarcho-Socialist]

38. Who cares what they're saying at freerepublic?

It's full of trash. We all know they're just rush-lickers, neo-confederates and nazi throwbacks. There's nothing wrong with having a debate about communism without being scared what "freepers think".

I know, it's an oxymoron to have "freepers" and "think" next to each other.

[taxidriver]

44. i can see it now.."tree huggin hippy crap over at DU"

[disinfo_guy]

62. oh no! the Freepers will make fun of us!

They'll be cracking wise over us at their freeper parties! They might even call us a bunch of no good tree hugging commies! What will we do?

[Anarcho-Socialist]

73. lol n/t

[JHBowden]

6. I like the non-existent kind.

Keep it confined to the college campuses.

[DBoon]

20. never!

Why torture undergraduates like that?

Isn't there enough pain and suffering in this world without Marxist sociology professors (especially the angry ones opressed by having to teach undergraduate courses)?

[LoZoccolo]

10. Other type: keg party

This basically means - I'll throw a party and let everyone tap the keg for free, because who knows how many parties I've been to with free kegs.

[markses]

11. From that lot, you have to go with Marxism

Maybe you should put Linuxism up there as well?

[Crunchy Frog]

13. Alexander Dubcek

Praque Spring type, which is actually Communism in a state of incipient collapse.

IOW, best when it's in a state of imminent peaceful collapse.:)

[Nevernose]

16. Or what about those Christian Communists from the 1820's?

What were they called again?

[Crunchy Frog]

18. Actually, I prefer the Christian Communists

of the earliest Christian Church, as described in the Bible.

I guess all true Bible believing Christians really should be Communists in order to properly follow biblical teaching.:)

[Nevernose]

28. You are OBVIOUSLY misinterpreting the bible

That stuff in Acts about giving everything you've got to the church so that it can redistibute it to the poor is...uh...it's a call to CAPITALISM! Yeah, that's thye ticket...

[DBoon]

21. Owenists!

There, do I win communist jeopardy?

"I'll take third world liberation for $100"

[Nevernose]

31. That's not it, but close enough

If I have to google it, then as far as I'm concerned, you've won.

I was thinking, though, of a group of nuns...stupid brain cells don't work like they used to...do you have any idea what I'm talking about? (The nuns, not the brain cells)

[disinfo_guy]

67. Owenists, huh? wow, I learn something new everyday at DU

:)

[DBoon]

80. More on Owenists

http://www.mutualist.org/mutualistnetresourcesandinformationonmutualistanarchism/id26.html

[DoNotRefill]

14. The dead kind.

eom.

[markses]

17. A SPECTRE is haunting Europe, the SPECTRE of Communism

There it is, in the first line of the Communist Manifesto: dead communism - the spectre doing its haunting. Communism was always dead, which is to say, it never was, and never will be.

[Nevernose]

15. Or, as the T-shirt says:

Yeah, I'm a Marxist!

[DBoon]

26. And don't forget his revolutionary partner

Lennon..

http://www.geocities.com/flatbush_skp/marxlennon.html

[DBoon]

19. Anarcho Communism

Love live Peter Kropotkin!

[shance]

22. Favorite brand? Is that like the Coke, Nabisco or Proctor and Gamble?

kind of communism?

Honestly I think I fall more in like the Banana Republic kind of commie category. I like their cotton button downs.

:)

[U4ikLefty]

35. LOL...I'm more of a McCommunist myself

I like to do my shopping at Wal Marx.

[shance]

40. I just went to Lenin*s n Things today to get new bedding stuff

such a utopian atmosphere there, you know?

I really felt we were all there for a similar, unified reason. It was like no one was greater or less than anybody else.

:)

[DBoon]

57. I'm a MacCommunist!!

http://www.wired.com/news/mac/0,2125,53839,00.html?tw=wn_story_related

[disinfo_guy]

59. is that like a dot-commie?

:eyes:

[neoteric lefty]

23. can you elaborate on your selection to your poll?

the fact that you just blatantly throw up a poll about a topic like this without giving any background about your beliefs is very odd. I really hope you are a fellow democrat because we need all the help we can get in these trying times. I would suggest better format for later threads, but thats just me.

[DesolationRow]

24. What brand of Communism was Marx?

He didn't really say much in the way of what a socialist or communist world would look like. Even the Manifesto was more of a critique of Capitalism with only the sketchiest of visions of a replacement. Lenin and Trotsky filled that role. It is really too bad that he wasn't as brilliant at laying out what such a society might look like as Lenin and Trotsky really f'd it up.

[markses]

33. One must ask: Were Russia and China economic miracles?

Sure, the economic system in Russia and China were unable, ultimately, to keep up with the West, but look at the starting points. In the early 20th century, Russia (and the Soviet Union generally) was operating economically at about the level of the capitalists nations in the early 18th (!!) century. The same could be said about China as late as the 1940's: they had a feudal economy for all intents and purposes. To "modernize" these economies and cultures in such a short period of time - to such an extent that Russia and China could become a major military and scientific competitors to the most "advanced" Western countries in the space of about 30 years - is, quite frankly, incredible. It is a development drenched in blood, to be sure, but in sheer results incredible nonetheless. The communist economies did in very short periods of time what it took the Western economies more than two centuries to do. That is undeniable fact.

[DesolationRow]

36. Yes, it did work quite well.

But this part: "It is a development drenched in blood, to be sure," was the part I was referring to as f'd up. I feel the nature of violent revolution led to the authoritarian results more than the ideas of Marx.

[DesolationRow]

37. I should add that to be fair that the blame for that should be placed

at Stalin's feet more than anyone.

[markses]

43. No question

Bodies stacked up like cordwood and cruelty beyond (economic) measure. Marx, however, was also involved in violent revolution, we must remember. He was no pacifist when it came to the class struggle, however many hours he may have spent in the library.

[markses]

45. We should also not forget that capitalism's 300 years is NO LESS BLOODY

Than communism's 100 years. The process of development from feudal to capitalist economies was a bloody period of inestimable cruelty. Communism just condensed that cruelty into the short development period, making it appear much more severe. It was not. The development of world capitalism was as bloody, distributed over the long haul as was Stalin's horrible reign. The problem may not be any such system itself so much as the problem of full social transition as such. Capitalism murdered millions upon millions of human beings through all manner and means (and, in fact, continues to do so, by the millions).

[disinfo_guy]

56. exactly - capitalism has been much less violent

how many people have died under capitalist regimes or due to capitalist purposes? Like, few!

[IrateCitizen]

58. I certainly hope you're being sarcastic here

If not, I'd suggest you do some research on the history of indigenous peoples in North and South America, and the fate of their civilizations over the years following the arrival of Europeans. After all, European expansion and colonialism was just a side effect of the rise of capitalism in European societies. And that colonialism was quite brutal, and in some cases, genocidal.

[disinfo_guy]

61. who can tell?

[Slickriddles]

46. Commies Ain't the only ones Drenched in Blood

I've read a book called The Origins of the Modern World by Robert Marks (coincidence?) and he makes a case for China being the most productive and wealthy nation on earth up until about 1840 when The English (no strangers to blood drenchings)forced their way into China with their opium and their cheap mass produced goods (made from the sweat and blood of 8-year-olds from cotton produced by slave labor right here in the US.) The English and others destroyed China's economy. It wasn't always a 3rd world nation. It was rich and thatis why Columbus was looking for it.

Also, from June of 1941 to June of 1944 the Russian Army (under Stalin) was basically fighting alone against the Nazis and kicking ass.

[markses]

47. See my post 45

n/t

[Zorra]

25. Nun Fo Mi.

It doesn't exist.

[fujiyama]

30. Who the hell

chose Stalinism? This must be a joke!

Granted, all of them suck. I'd rather not live under communism.

[DrWeird]

32. Christianity.

You know, the kind Jesus practiced.

[Anarcho-Socialist]

34. When choosing...

...it's like choosing your favorite brand of cigarettes. You know it causes cancer, but at the time it seems a bad and exciting thing to do.

[SarahB]

42. It is not economically viable ...

for the means of production to be held by the state. Government, still though, holds a responsibility to it's citizens beyond that of over militarization that is intertwined with corporate interests. Communism isn't the best way to govern, but neither is facism.

Nice try.

[Commendatori]

49. It all sucks

In any of those systems, I would have no ambition whatsoever - I'd be perfectly happy to be a bartender or a concierge.

[disinfo_guy]

50. 4 out of 5 confused college activists agree: Acme Brand Communism

is guarenteed to take control of the means of production up to 20% faster than the leading brands!

[theboss]

51. Four people chose Stalinism?

Sweet fancy Moses!!!

[noonwitch]

52. Not that I want to live in a communist country, but Tito seems the best

I had relatives in his Yugoslavia, college professors/scientists, who were kicked out for teaching non-communism. "Kicked Out" as opposed to shot, or sent to a gulag or Siberia. I have a cousin who stayed and now runs a bed and breakfast on the Adriatic in Slovenia.
I was told that under Tito, Yugoslavians were allowed to come and go from their country, that there was a great deal of personal freedom in comparison to the USSR and the Warsaw pact nations. Tito never signed the Warsaw Pact.

[bryant69]

53. Communism doesn't work

You can play all the semantic games you want; but Communism doesn't work except for those few on the top of the pile. (You could say, well, Capitalism is just the same, but Capitalism holds open the option of people moving to the top of the pile. Communism doesn't really).

Although, I"m guessing those who favor communism don't see themselves as regular little worker aunts.

Bryant
Check it out --> http://politicalcomment.blogspot.com

[IrateCitizen]

55. Worker aunts? Why not worker uncles or cousins?

Pure communism doesn't work any better than pure capitalism. Plus, one of the downsides of communism is the "dictatorship of the proletariat" stage -- something that only serves to consolidate state power and eliminate the diffusion of power throughout society, an essential element to establishing a certain degree of egalitarianism throughout society.

Of course, the ascendancy of corporate power here in the US has had a similar effect WRT the diffusion of power (or lack thereof) throughout society. We are rapidly transforming from a democratic republic to an oligarchy as a result.

[Crunchy Frog]

79. Actually I think it does work quite well

in social insects.

It just doesn't work in human societies.

[IrateCitizen]

54. I chose Jesus, although that's more "communitarian" than "communist"

Communism, as described by Karl Marx, was based on a material dialectic, proposing that all would become a utopia should the material benefits of labor and industry be dispersed in a completely egalitarian manner. The communitarianism practiced by Christ and his disciples, OTOH, was largely values-driven -- they eschewed the idea of maintaining personal possessions, voluntarily sharing all they had between each other, along with outsiders.

Surprisingly, many of Marx's earlier writings -- before Das Kapital and the Communist Manifesto -- were much more humanist in tone. They argued not for more possessions for the working class, as much as they argued for the fruits of productivity to be shared with the working class in the form of less time at work, and more time in leisure and pursuing the arts. This was probably much more in line with the communitarianism practiced by early Christians than his later theories on a communist economy, when his concerns shifted to the distribution of purely material gains (and one of the great reasons for communism's ultimate failure).

Frankly, I think that when energy sources begin to dry up and industrial agricultural practices cause a global food crisis due to the destruction of arable soil, we will see a return to communitarian practices by large parts of the population. It will happen because selfishness will prove to be a self-destructive path in the end, and that the only way to ensure the continuation of some aspects of civilization will be for people to largely pool resources and work cooperatively rather than competitively.

[FatSlob]

64. Communism is both evil and moronic.

Give me a market economy, baby!

I'm not stupid enough to think that people will work hard for no personal gain. Viva Free Market!

[Art_from_Ark]

65. Which brand of fascism would you prefer?

Nazi Germany

Mussolini's Italy

Pinochet's Chile

Peron's Argentina

Rios Montt's Guatemala

George bu$h's America

[wadestock]

66. Favored in what way?

Not a good question.
Perhaps you should have tried "most successful form of communism"

That would be the Chinese.
They mix a bit of free enterprise in and vwalla.....they might just take over the world economy in about 20 years....

The point is this....capitalism, even added as a flavor enhancer, still unleashes all sorts of advantages in a society....even if they are socialistic or communistic to begin with.

Nowadays...we have become so inanely stupid about capitalism, we as a people don't even understand how it works. Most people today feel that if the fruits of capitalism were to be given back to the people, then this represents at the very least sliding down a slippery slope to socialism...and most right wingers call it communism.

[Anarcho-Socialist]

70. Everyone has it in for me today...

...I'm heading to the lounge :bounce:

[Redleg]

75. You sure stirred up some sh!t in here.

You shouldn't be surprised that some have implied you're a Freeper troll.

[Loonman]

72. Communism is an economic dead end

Friends don't let friends be communists.

[patcox2]

74. But, but, but, 2 out of 3 superpowers are communist.

I mean, don't that count for nothing? Communism may be crap for personal freedom, and it does indeed do away with capitalisms illusory promise of wealth for all, but for most of my life there were three superpowers on this planet, countries with economies big enough to support armies and nuclear forces and dominate all the countries around them, and 2 out of 3 were communist. You can't dismiss it out of hand like that.

Of course, capitalism as tempered by Roosevelt's market regulation and social programs, has proven to be by far the greatest economic engine.

Now that Bush is dismantling the Roosevelt reforms that staved off the revolution in the 1930s, you might see some of the flaws of unfettered capitalism.

[wadestock]

76. How wrong you are.....

China uses it to direct the country along economic policies that it considers advantageous to its position in the world and LONG TERM future.

They take that communist CONTROL and mix in free enterprise...which is currently kicking our ass in products and will soon kick our ass in technology....and they take #1 economic power in the world....probably within 20 years or so.

What's the moral of the story? Capitalism run rampant (like in the US under right wing control) eventual caves in on itself and self destructs. The very greed which it loves has gone so mad it doesn't care where it gets its profits....so in other words....it is NON-NATIONALISTIC capitalism that we support today. Is that economically sound for the country?

NO....only the corporate greedsters bank accounts.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

77. The kind that fought for racial equality, labor unions, and human rights.

Without the "communists", like Bayard Rustin, Emma Goldman, Margaret Sanger, Albert Einstein, John Reed, the IWW, the CIO, Paul Robeson, Woody Guthrie, the Abraham Lincoln Brigade, and a whole bunch of other "commies, this country would be a helluva lot less "liberal".

Not to mention that we'd probably be singing "Deutchland uber Alles" without the Red Army kicking the shit out of the nazis.

[ArkDem]

78. Anarco-syndicalism