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Roger Ebert: '9/11': Just the facts?

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DougieZero Donating Member (372 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-18-04 10:00 AM
Original message
Roger Ebert: '9/11': Just the facts?
http://www.suntimes.com/output/eb-feature/cst-ftr-moore18.html

'9/11': Just the facts?

June 18, 2004

BY ROGER EBERT FILM CRITIC

A reader writes:

"In your articles discussing Michael Moore's film 'Fahrenheit 9/11,' you call it a documentary. I always thought of documentaries as presenting facts objectively without editorializing. While I have enjoyed many of Mr. Moore's films, I don't think they fit the definition of a documentary."

--------------------------------------

That's where you're wrong. Most documentaries, especially the best ones, have an opinion and argue for it. Even those that pretend to be objective reflect the filmmaker's point of view. Moviegoers should observe the bias, take it into account and decide if the film supports it or not.

Michael Moore is a liberal activist. He is the first to say so. He is alarmed by the prospect of a second term for George W. Bush, and made "Fahrenheit 9/11" for the purpose of persuading people to vote against him.

That is all perfectly clear, and yet in the days before the film opens June 25, there'll be bountiful reports by commentators who are shocked! shocked! that Moore's film is partisan. "He doesn't tell both sides," we'll hear, especially on Fox News, which is so famous for telling both sides.

The wise French director Godard once said, "The way to criticize a film is to make another film." That there is not a pro-Bush documentary available right now I am powerless to explain. Surely, however, the Republican National Convention will open with such a documentary, which will position Bush comfortably between Ronald Reagan and God. The Democratic convention will have a wondrous film about John Kerry. Anyone who thinks one of these documentaries is "presenting facts objectively without editorializing" should look at the other one.

The pitfall for Moore is not subjectivity, but accuracy. We expect him to hold an opinion and argue it, but we also require his facts to be correct. I was an admirer of his previous doc, the Oscar-winning "Bowling for Columbine," until I discovered that some of his "facts" were wrong, false or fudged.

In some cases, he was guilty of making a good story better, but in other cases (such as his ambush of Charlton Heston) he was unfair, and in still others (such as the wording on the plaque under the bomber at the Air Force Academy) he was just plain wrong, as anyone can see by going to look at the plaque.

Because I agree with Moore's politics, his inaccuracies pained me, and I wrote about them in my Answer Man column. Moore wrote me that he didn't expect such attacks "from you, of all people." But I cannot ignore flaws simply because I agree with the filmmaker. In hurting his cause, he wounds mine.

Now comes "Fahrenheit 9/11," floating on an enormous wave of advance publicity. It inspired a battle of the titans between Disney's Michael Eisner and Miramax's Harvey Weinstein. It won the Palme d'Or at the Cannes Film Festival. It has been rated R by the MPAA, and former New York Gov. Mario Cuomo has signed up as Moore's lawyer, to challenge the rating. The conservative group Move America Forward, which successfully bounced the mildly critical biopic "The Reagans" off CBS and onto cable, has launched a campaign to discourage theaters from showing "Fahrenheit 9/11."

The campaign will amount to nothing and disgraces Move America Forward by showing it trying to suppress disagreement instead of engaging it. The R rating may stand; there is a real beheading in the film, and only fictional beheadings get the PG-13. Disney and Miramax will survive.

Moore's real test will come on the issue of accuracy. He can say whatever he likes about Bush, as long as his facts are straight. Having seen the film twice, I saw nothing that raised a flag for me, and I haven't heard of any major inaccuracies. When Moore was questioned about his claim that Bush unwisely lingered for six or seven minutes in that Florida classroom after learning of the World Trade Center attacks, Moore was able to reply with a video of Bush doing exactly that.

I agree with Moore that the presidency of George W. Bush has been a disaster for America. In writing that, I expect to get the usual complaints that movie critics should keep their political opinions to themselves. But opinions are my stock in trade, and is it not more honest to declare my politics than to conceal them? I agree with Moore, and because I do, I hope "Fahrenheit 9/11" proves to be as accurate as it seems.

Copyright © Chicago Sun-Times Inc.
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bryant69 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-18-04 10:02 AM
Response to Original message
1. This is pretty good
It's nice to see someone standing up to those dimwits who would restrict our freedoms

Bryant
Check it out --> http://politicalcomment.blogspot.com
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Justice Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-18-04 10:04 AM
Response to Original message
2. A Really Great Column - Honest, Sincere and American
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GreenPartyVoter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-18-04 10:04 AM
Response to Original message
3. Hee, hee. I love this line...
"He doesn't tell both sides," we'll hear, especially on Fox News, which is so famous for telling both sides."
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bleedingheart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-18-04 10:05 AM
Response to Original message
4. kudos to Ebert
I respect his opinion and I think he is right...better to be accurate in your attack on the right.
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MuseRider Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-18-04 10:07 AM
Response to Original message
5. Here is the problem.
"Moviegoers should observe the bias, take it into account and decide if the film supports it or not."

You have to think???? You can't possibly mean that. Hannity tells us the truth and doesn't ever ask us to think. Elitist liberals!
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LynzM Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-18-04 10:17 AM
Response to Reply #5
8. Love this comic:


I'll be an elitist :evilgrin:
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MuseRider Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-18-04 01:08 PM
Response to Reply #8
23. Thanks
that is a good one! I think it is one of the saddest things to happen to our society, this idea that if you use your mind you are somehow elitist and not to be trusted.
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Screaming Lord Byron Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-18-04 10:08 AM
Response to Original message
6. I'm with Ebert on his criticism of Moore, however
It's a near-impossibility to make sure every fact and statement in a documentary is true, in context and verified. Moore makes mistakes, but I expect him to make less as he goes on.
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Justice Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-18-04 10:18 AM
Response to Reply #6
9. But Ebert Gets The Importance of Moore Being Accurate
Ebert wants Moore to be accurate - it is important for all of us that Moore is accurate.
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LTR Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-18-04 10:17 AM
Response to Original message
7. This is one of the reasons I'm an Ebert fan
Edited on Fri Jun-18-04 10:17 AM by RatTerrier
Not only is he arguably the most intelligent film critic today, but he is one of the best newspapers columnists period.

He consistently holds himself to a high level, and it shows. He has integrity, unlike many of his peers today.
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JackDragna Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-18-04 10:25 AM
Response to Original message
10. It's the old cry of "bias!" from conservatives.
Conservatives will accuse opponents of bias as a way of discrediting them at the drop of a hat. Everyone who differs from conservative opinion just can't be trusted because they have such "radical" viewpoints. As Ebert so rightly pointed out, bias doesn't matter one bit in terms of who's right or wrong. I sure as hell hope anyone with a strong opinion on something is biased for it in the extreme because they've studied the evidence on said thing and believe their opinion to be correct. It's merely another attempt by conservatives to smear an individual because the conservatives know they're losing the debate in the public forum.
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stopbush Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-18-04 10:33 AM
Response to Original message
11. The facts? We all remember the *facts* as presented in that TV
mocu-drama on 9/11, with the dynamic *take charge* W screaming that he didn't care what the SS said, he needed to get back to DC. Thank the stars the RW fact-checkers viewed every frame of that piece of tripe for accuracy (apologies to tripe).

And, aren't the RWers who were the biggest supporters of W's Iraq adventure now his most-vocal critics after the lies of the administration have been exposed? Why, they're calling for impeachment, aren't they? Didn't I hear Orin Hatch and Bill Bennett on TV just the other night opining that "now that the Rs control the government, we'll make sure that traitors like bush, cheney and the rest get run out on a rail for their traitorous lies!" At least, I thought I heard that...?

That they hold Moore to the same high standards is proof, proof I tell ya, of their unbiased insistence on accuracy and truth!
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jobycom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-18-04 10:49 AM
Response to Original message
12. Great commentary
That's how I've always felt about Moore. Great filmmaker, a bit too loose with the truth. I hope he gets F911 right. His disengenuous flap with Disney was a bad start, but the film is the issue.

And if he gets it wrong, I hope no one discovers until mid November. :-)
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stopbush Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-18-04 11:21 AM
Response to Original message
13. I'm curious. How many *documentary* films or books are 100% accurate
upon their initial release? How often are films and books revised when inaccuracies are pointed out subsequent to their release.

I don't know. I'm asking.
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Jade Fox Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-18-04 11:23 AM
Response to Original message
14. Ebert is quite powerful in his own way...
as a voice for America. I'm glad he wrote this. He is telling the
freeper types to bring it on. He will not be intimidated by them,
nor will he apologize for his political views--something the Right
is attempting to get all of us to do by reducing our legitimate agenda and
complaints to 'bias' or 'left-wing hatred', or anti-Americanism, and most
laughably Communism. Did these people not get the memo? Communism
has been over for about a dozen years now.

Go Ebert!
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Beetwasher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-18-04 11:25 AM
Response to Original message
15. What An Awesome Patriot Ebert Is
My respect for this man has grown by leaps and bounds in the past year or so.
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robbedvoter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-18-04 11:41 AM
Response to Original message
16. As good as his column after the coup 2000!
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KittyWampus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-18-04 11:44 AM
Response to Original message
17. People Mistake Documentaries For NEWS
which ideally should be "presenting facts objectively without editorializing".

However, the days when mainstream news tried to present information to the public as objectively as possible so they could make their own decisions is so far behind us many probably don't even KNOW what news and journalism USED to be.

Actually, I guess News and Jouranalism was never all that great at presenting complete or unbiased info. They just REALLY suck now.
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Moderator DU Moderator Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-18-04 11:51 AM
Response to Original message
18. Hi DougieZero
per our rules re copyright please post no more than 4 paragraphs of copyrighted material.

Thx
DU Moderator
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Sabriel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-18-04 11:53 AM
Response to Original message
19. BfC has errors?
What parts of BfC are "wrong, false or fudged," according to Ebert? Anyone know?
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Anaxamander Donating Member (550 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-18-04 11:59 AM
Response to Original message
20. Ebert redeems himself...
...after giving 4 stars to <shudder> Mystic River.
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Arbustosux Donating Member (769 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-18-04 12:49 PM
Response to Original message
21. hey Dougie...love your icon
:)
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DougieZero Donating Member (372 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-18-04 12:56 PM
Response to Reply #21
22. thanks nt.
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President Jesus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-18-04 01:12 PM
Response to Original message
24. Ebert family are HUGE dem supporters!
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