Sexual Misconduct? What Do You Think About This?

[GiovanniC]

True Story, with names and unnecessary details left out or changed slightly.

A guy, Dave, works as a science teacher at a high school. He and a 16-year-old female student at the school "fall in love" and begin having "consensual" sexual relations. They have sex at his home, in the school's basement, in closets, and even a concession stand at the school. This sexual relationship goes on for several months, during school hours and after school hours.

The parents become concerned with the unusual amount of attention Dave is paying toward their daughter. Then, after returning from a weekend trip, they discover that the teacher had been to their house to visit their daughter one night while only she and her brother were home. They become increasingly suspicious, and called the police when they discovered that their daughter was out with the teacher. The police eventually unearth all of this information about their relationship.

The girl claims the relationship is consensual and that she wasn't forced to have sex with the teacher. In this state, 16 is the age of consent; however, it is a sexual misconduct felony for a teacher to have sexual relations with a student at the building where they teach, regardless of age.

It carries a penalty of at least a year in prison. In this case, the teacher pled guilty and it was widely speculated that his sentence would be 7 to 9 years. However, it never got to that point, because Dave, the teacher, hung himself the day before sentencing.

Now, he is being adamantly defended in the opinion pages of the newspaper by all sorts of people who claim that he did nothing wrong and that the girl was just as culpable in the relationship as he was.

Some samplings from recent letters:

"At what point do you make a 16-year-old responsible for her activities? Yes, I agree he made a bad judgment in having sex with this young lady, but at 16, she surely knew what she was doing, too."

"I only hope that her parents don't end up regretting their decision in not punishing (!) their daughter."

"The girl was just as much at fault as he is, and sadly, the media only focus on his part of the problem. She should be held accountable for a lot more than is known. In fact, you can almost say that the media makes it seem as though she is the 'victim' of all this."

"While it was definitely bad judgment on the teacher's part, sending him to prison for having sex with a legal-aged girl is excessive."

"That young woman was not forced to have sex; she made her decision. If either one of them should have gotten in trouble for it, then they both should have."


Only ONE single, solitary person has written a letter saying that what the teacher did was wrong without blaming the girl with the next stroke of their pen.

What is your take?

[murielm99]

1. Anyone who teaches is cautioned about this sort of thing.

You do not have sex with students. Period.

I am sorry he hanged himself, but he should have known the penalties in his state. And, he was the adult.

[blackcat77]

2. Ugh...

I think what we've got here is the result of all this "child molester" hysteria that's swept the country for years. Now I agree that NO adult, by which I mean 18+, should be haveing sex with ANY minor. But the problem is that there's no legal distinction between a 6 YO and a 16 YO when obviously theres a huge difference in real life.

Having sex with the 16 YO was still wrong, and it was more wrong because of the nature of the relationship between them as student and teacher, just as it would be with doctor and patient or anything of the sort. But since everybody agrees it was consentual, I think that consentual sex with someone aged 16 or 17 should be a lesser offense, perhaps the lowest category of felony. Certainly it shouldn't have called for 9 years in jail.

We had a similar situation in my home town a couple months ago. A 20 YO had been hired as an assistant to the choir director and ended up having sex with a 17 YO student. Big stink, big charges, and all over the front page. Now I believe that firing this guy was appropriate and some sort of punishment was in order, but I'd lean toward a fine, probation and community service while the drums are beating for hard time for the guy...

[GiovanniC]

3. Personally...

I doubt he'd have gotten 9 years, myself. I don't think he'd have even gotten the seven years that some were talking about. He pled guilty to two charges that had minimum one-year sentences each, and there was some talk that an example might be made out of him, hence the 7 to 9 year talk.

What bothers me is that there is a reason that laws like these are in place. Yes, the girl was (barely) the legal age of consent. But a strong case could be made that she was manipulated into having sex with a teacher in a position of authority, whether she deemed it "consensual" or not.

Now, since this guy hung himself, he has become the victim, and there has been a hueueuege outpouring of support toward him and his family, and an equally huge demonization of this girl and her parents.

I swear, the way some are talking around here, all this guy did was have sex with the girl, and she murdered him.

[blackcat77]

7. Well, whenever the word "victim" starts being bandied about...

You can be pretty sure that rationality has gone out the window. He is not a victim -- he made his choices and has to live with them. The issue to me is that the punishment be appropriate to the offense.

[REP]

4. He Was At Fault

He was in a position of authority over the 16 year old, and took advantage of his position. The 16 year old may have thought she was in 'love' with this older authority figure, and it is not uncommon for school-age children to have crushes on teachers. What is uncommon is the adult teacher taking advantage of this.

[GiovanniC]

5. So What Do You Think

Of the people writing letters to the editor, in some cases suggesting that this girl is as much at fault as the teacher (and at least one suggesting that this girl and her parents are basically responsible for his death?

[REP]

6. I Think They Are Immoral Morons

It does not matter what the girl and her parents did; it was his choice to take advantage of his student, violate the law, and ultimately, to kill himself.

[Cleita]

8. I'm so happy when I was sixteen no one wanted to have sex

with me. It really would have destroyed the relationship for me of idolizing a respected teacher no matter how attracted I may have been to them, and I was attracted to some of my teachers. It was sort of like being attracted to a movie star, fun but unattainable. I hope teachers in the future really keep that barrier up at least until the kid graduates from high school and maybe he can invite her to a movie as a first date once she graduates.

[Fenris]

9. Dave should not have had sex with a student.

Teachers are advised against such activities. He was also a fool to hang himself.

[Kenneth ken]

10. two points

one you don't say how old "Dave" was. If he was 22 or 23 and new to teaching, I would be inclined to cut him some slack, as opposed to if he was 40 or so.

two :...it is a sexual misconduct felony for a teacher to have sexual relations with a student at the building where they teach, regardless of age. "

regardless of his age, as a teacher he should have known he was committing a felony. So, if he is a first-year teacher, I'd cut him some slack, even though he should know better, and have been warned by the Principal of the school before he ever stepped in front of a class. If he was a veteran of many years, then his felony is compounded due to the fact of his experience as both a teacher and adult.

edit to add: this is an example of what cons complain about liberals doing; practicing 'moral relativity.' As a teacher, he was responsible for his actions, and (should have know) the consequences. One simply needs to accept responsibility, and not simply follow their sexual impulses unthinkingly.

I'm not willing to excuse his behavior, but am willing to factor in his age and possible lack of maturity as a mitigating factor in determining how harshly he should be punished. That's where cons fail - they try to be absolute hardliners, no compassion, no mitigating factors; unless the perp has an R after his name; then they're pure compassion and excuses.

[GiovanniC]

12. Just Checked

He was 28.

I also know that he taught at least three years just at the school he was at in this case. I'm not sure about his teaching history prior to that.

[Kenneth ken]

17. so

there is no reason he shouldn't have known better. As a juror, I'd have been supportive of him losing his teaching license forever, and maybe jail time suspended, providing he avoid contact with the girl.

I personally don't really favor locking up nonviolent people.

anyway, my condolences to his family and friends, since he died.

[Djinn]

11. In Melbourne currently

there is a 36 year old female teacher facing charges of having a sexual relationship with a 15 year old male student. Watching the news reports last night really pissed me off - they kept waffling on about how "stressful" the charges have been to the teacher and how she's lost her job, not once did they mention that this was an ADULT having sex with a teenager.

In previous cases where this has occured and the genders have been swapped - ie a male teacher and a 15 year old female pupil - the public has been outraged and he media have no problems calling it what it is - sexual assault.

I'm surprised at the above case because normally people seem to accept it as an inappropriate thing to do if the elder person is male but when the adult is female it's as if the situation becomes "lucky young boy!"

While it is certainly true that a 16 year old can make a decision freely to enter a sexual relationship with an adult when the situation involves teacher/student or doctor/patient, priest/parishioner there is an implicit breach of trust and therefore not equitable.

It is certainly sad that this man killed himself but to accuse the girl of being complicit in his suicide is going way too far.

[Cleita]

22. A woman can be as much of a sexual predator of adolescent

children as a man can. We had our own scandal here in the USA of a teacher having a relationship with a thirteen-year-old male student who got her pregnant, twice.

[Skittles]

13. the teacher is at fault

PERIOD.

[MAlibdem]

14. Anyone who uses a position of authority to coerce sex is an asshole...

...but may not be legally liable (except when the law says they are...such as in this case).

The guy did something wrong, there is a law against it...he goes to jail.

[Curious Dave]

15. And can you imagine

the homophobic furor that would have result if his 16 year old lover had been male?

[alittlelark]

16. BOTTOM LINE ........ Teacher + Student = ABUSE

It does not matter at what age the 'relationship' takes place. It is bottom line WRONG to abuse a position of authority.

It does not matter who came on to who.

It doesn't matter if the teacher is a male or a female.

I is a non-issue whether one was 'coming on' to the other.


There are written (and unwritten) laws concerning these relationships. They are considered INAPPROPRIATE.

At least the US Military has figured it out, and will discipline (OK>NOT effectively) those who engage in sexual activities w/ subordinates.

The only people this could be considered an issue to are those who would enjoy being in that position of power, and envy those who are.


My 2 cents


PS - never had one of these relationships - and neither will my daughter - or son (I hope)

[TeeYiYi]

18. The question is . . .

. . . at what point do you make the teacher responsible for hanging himself?

TYY

[faithnotgreed]

19. 2 thoughts - one on topic and one off:

1) the teacher was most definitely the one responsible. remember (being) 16 yo? most have NO idea what theyre doing and i agree with others here - there is a rule about teachers and students and important reasons for that rule.... i feel sorry for everyone involved and sorry that it cost him his life. very very sad

2) i hate to even say this given the gravity of what youve written.
im new to this board so i dontknow what your posts usually look like but that cartoon really made me laugh
where is that located or how can i forward that to my brother?

thank you very much

[GiovanniC]

20. Cartoon

Is called "Get Your War On." You can find it here http://www.mnftiu.cc/mnftiu.cc/war.html or in fine bookstores across America. It also appears in Rolling Stone. David Spees, I believe, is the guy who does it.

[Bhaisahab]

23. David REES :) n/t

[GiovanniC]

24. My Bad

I knew it was something like that.

[faithnotgreed]

26. thank you! now ive just spent the last hour laughing

i dont watch tv and dont read anything too mainstream but i love this blog and thats about my only source of news... i dont know if thats good or bad but im sure glad to have found out about gywo
thanks

[jarab]

25. Welcome to DU!

...O...

[newyawker99]

28. Hi faithnotgreed!!

Welcome to DU!! :toast:

[Jake_DeLeon]

21. Wow he fucked up...

not necessarily by having sex with a 16 year old student.

His mistake was that he plead guilty then killed himself.

He effectively gave himself the death penalty when he probably could have gotten out of it if he went to trial.

[DWolper]

27. Taking advantage of his position

As Clinton is apparently going to say, "I did it because I could" and will call it "morally indefensible." The teacher knew HE could, so, he did. But, it's nothing like a consenting adult and you have to compound that by a hundred because the teacher was having sex with a MINOR.

The teacher/student laws are there for a good reason. The possibility of forcing students into sexual situations in return for better grades, etc. The authority figure and intimidation. The list is long. It's a good law.

The fact is, if it weren't a teacher-student relationship the guy wouldn't get in too much trouble. Especially, and I hate to say this, if the girl was attractive and looked older than her age. I have a good friend who is a prosecutor and we have discussed this. It's just a matter of reality and what goes on. Prosecutors have to pick and choose their cases and a lot of 16 year old girls are very much "in love" and look many years older, deception with the age is many times an issue, and that's just the way that is. It ain't pretty as they say, but it's just the way it is. But the teacher-student thing? That's just flat-out inexcusable.

[truthspeaker]

29. a year in jail sounds harsh, but he should have lost his job

I'm as attracted to 16-year-old girls as the next guy, but I'm smart enough to think about consequences before I act.

[porphyrian]

30. It's The Victim's Fault!

...especially if it's a girl! With those dirty, dirty pillows...!

[Cheswick2.0]

32. lol

ewwwwwwwww, I didn't need to thionk of that movie this early.

[GreenPartyVoter]

31. Hard to say.

I've known teachers and students who dated and then married later.

Really, I couldn't hazard a guess in this case without talking to the girl in question.

[Cheswick2.0]

33. Dave was obviously a very screwed up man

Now he has left this girl feeling quilty and grieving in addition to taking advantage of her sexually.

I guess he killed himself because of the shame. I wonder if he ever thought of the girl though.

I feel sorry for him, but he was wrong and those letter writers should be ashamed of themselves.