three stories that TV news didn't touch until Michael Moore forced them

[Cocoa]

1.AWOL Bush

2.The flight of the Saudis after Sept. 11

3.Bush reading goat story on Sept. 11


Jennings, Lehrer, et al must really hate Mike, he makes them look really BAD.

[Eric J in MN]

1. Where were 2 and 3 discussed recently? nt

nt

[Columbia]

2. Yeah I haven't seen any on the 2nd 2 at all

And there wasn't really that much on the 1st one either.

[nose pin]

11. You won't see any on #2 either

The media dropped that story like a hot potato when this article came out:

http://www.thehill.com/news/052604/clarke.aspx

[NCLib23]

3. AWOL

1. Was discussed in the 2000 election.

2. Still no real coverage (I'm not sure it's a great story anyway. I think it will come across as paranoidly asking the government to detain foreign citizens because we suspect (without solid proof at that time) that a member of their family, which they had disowned, may hvae been behind the attacks)

3. WHo cares what he was reading???

[NYCGirl]

4. It's not about WHAT he was reading...

but WHEN he was reading it.

[NCLib23]

5. The school video w/ Andy Card

Is that really a story? The when he saw the planes question was, but who cares that he was in a school when the planes hit. Am I missing something?

[K-W]

6. He continued to read to the students after he was informed of the attack.

Rather than, I dont know, running the country.

[NCLib23]

12. I find that to eb a seriously...

poor argument.

The military in charge of the defense of DC and the North East have the autonomy to protect them. Him running out of the room would have been a much worse image, especially since he would ahve had to get back to AF1 before he could communicate with anyone of importance.

[Skittles]

13. OMG

you think the fact that our moronic piece of SHIT "president" DIDN'T KNOW WHAT TO DO SO HE DID NOTHING is a "poor argument"??????????????????????????????????????????????????

[NCLib23]

14. Of all the things Bush has done

sitting in that classroom is the least of them.

I think of all the stories out there, it is a poor one.

You may feel differently, but I honestly feel the time he spent there was immaterial, and makes the person STRENUOUSLY POINTING IT OUT lose credibilit and look like they are grasping at straws.

Also, most people (not me) saw it as a sign of leadership, not not panic the kids. I disagree, but if you are trying to convert people, you ahve to take them pretty far with that one.

[K-W]

15. You are right and wrong.

This is a small issue, but its an issue that resonates with people who arent ready to see the big lies and the big problems.

And the right thing for him to do would be to calmly and politely excuse himself, and go immediately to wherever he had to. He wasnt meeting with a head of state, he was at a photo op. Its not a great issue at all, but its a folksy issue, its got some legs so we might as well use it.

[NCLib23]

16. Fine

but should it be a news story as this thread said?

[Skittles]

18. EXCUSE ME

the piece of shit entered the classroom AFTER KNOWING ABOUT THE FIRST PLANE SLAMMING INTO THE FIRST TOWER.

[Skittles]

17. YOU are a lost cause

the events of 9/11 would NOT HAVE HAPPENED if we had not allowed the theft of democracy to occur. Bush has NEVER shown any SHRED of ANYTHING that can be called LEADERSHIP. And NEVER was that demonstrated more clearly than when he sat in that classroom. The fact is MOST PEOPLE DON'T KNOW HE DID THAT.

[NCLib23]

20. That has nothing to do with this story

BUt thatnks for calling ME a lost cause.

[Skittles]

22. you said what you think the American people believe

and I'm telling you THEY HAVE NOT BEEN TOLD THE TRUTH. Why do you think the fascists republicans are SO AGAINST the release of Michael Moore's documentary???

[NCLib23]

29. I've not seen

anyone saying it shouldn't be released.

Where is that? Disney didn't want to distribute a political film in an election year, they told Moore that when he started. He could ahve looked for a new distributor then, there was nothing stopping him but his own pride and ego.

[HootieMcBoob]

33. Disney is full of shit

WABC airs right-wing hate radio 24/7. ABC owns WABC -- Disney owns ABC.

[Guy Whitey Corngood]

36. Here.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=1809304

[Skittles]

52. and here

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=102&topic_id=629968&mesg_id=629968

[Guy Whitey Corngood]

57. Too late. Ashes to ashes...........

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=user_profiles&u_id=144321

[John_H]

42. Bottom line: Chimp LOOKS confused and wobbly as he reads.

'Member Ronny's big theory that the visual is worth a million lines of text? Welp, that's what's going to screw chimp--the way he looks like a puss while he's sitting there. The more people see it the better.

but please keep the controversy boiling NC, so people just have to go see for themselves. Excellent work!

[Generic Other]

48. And let's not forget the chain of command!

The military was waiting for orders to intercept the remaining planes.

[Bridget Burke]

19. Why Strenuously point it out? Just let the picture tell the story.

For months, warnings of a terrorist attack--probably featuring some kind of hijacking--had been directed at Bush. His reaction: Take a long vacation.

The first plane hit the WTC before he left the hotel for the elementary school. His reaction: Continue with the photo op.

The second plane hit, making everybody in the world realize it was a terrorist attack. His reaction: Continue with the photo op. Then flee.

Who, aware of the timeline, can see anything but weakness, cowardice & vague foreknowledge of the attack in his behavior that day?

[electricmonk]

24. Never bought the "panic the kids" argument

He, unfortunately, is the President and with that job description comes a lot of responsibility and all he had to say was "sorry children something came up that needs my attention" and at that leave the room. Instead he sat there with that stupid look on his face then later used those same kids as a backdrop to give his little speech about America being under attack.

[HootieMcBoob]

25. Unbelievable

It points out that the President who so many say is such a "great leader" did nothing to lead at the moment of crisis. Our country was under attack on our own soil for the first time since the war of 1812 and when the commander in chief is informed he does what? -- NOTHING! It also shows that the rest of the administration doesn't give a shit about him. They don't need him -- he's not in charge -- he's not important. Cheney was rushed out of the White House and into an underground bunker but apparently nobody gives a shit about Bush. The commander in chief wasn't making the calls - he wasn't interested in what was going on - he didn't have a fucking clue about what to do. He sat there looking like a turd on a log while people in NYC were jumping out of buildings. There wold have been no need to "rush" out. He could have simply stood up and calmly excused himself. If he had a freakin' clue that is. A real leader would have wanted to know what the hell was going on and to make sure his team was all on the same page. Can you honestly imagine Clinton or a President Kerry sitting there like a dumb-ass in a similar situation? It's very telling and if you can't see it and are adamant that it's not I believe that too is very telling.

[PA Democrat]

47. What you ignore is that his inaction is just one piece in a large pattern

of Bush's failure as a leader. So if we just start blowing off every individual piece of evidence of Bush's complete failure as a leader, we will never see the overall picture. And what words are contained in Bush's campaign slogan? "Steady leadership".

So is steady leadership sitting there because a small group of children may be alarmed? What about the families of people who had loved ones dying who were seeing the attacks LIVE on TV while Bush sat? Were they reassured that Bush sat reading a frigging book about a goat while their loved ones were incinerated?

Does a "leader" need to have Cheney appear with him before the 9-11 commission?

Does a "leader" refuse to take responsibility for a single mistake he's made, but rather continuously pass the buck?

Does a "leader" make irresponsible and ignorant remarks that endanger the lives of those he is supposed to be leading? Let's see.... "bring it on" and the use of the word "crusade" to describe his intent to wipe out terrorism come to mind.

I could go on and on. But I might be accused of "grasping at straws" with each of these individual points. Yeah, let's ignore the big picture.

[SheepyMcSheepster]

54. see, the problem i have with bush staying put is..

he would be the one of the guys to give shoot down orders correct? shouldn't he be in a situation where he is at least available to discuss these matters? bush sat by while firemen were running into burning buildings not realising that there had been a terrorist attack. also the people in the second tower were told to stay put not realising they maybe in danger as well. bush's lack of action/availability probably cost people their lives.

you believe it is appropriate for the commander and cheif to be sitting in a classroom while our nation is under attack?

you think the president could have been a target at all? shouldn't he get himself away from the school and into somewhere where he is able to properly communicate with those who are making life and death decisions?

bush is either incompetent or knew what was going on. take your pick.

[ClassWarrior]

41. Apparently they didn't have the autonomy...

...because they didn't get airborne for a HALF HOUR. And who says he had to run out of the room? Why didn't he stand, excuse himself to take care of important business, and stride out authoritatively like a real president?

Oh, I forgot. He's not a real president.

[TNMOM]

58. dude, I don't expect Bushit to know exactly what to do in a moment

of panic -- but hey, getting out of his chair to check out the situation is not out of the question!

Hello!! He is the COMMANDER IN F'ing CHIEF! someone just told him that America is under attack. If that doesn't get you out of your chair, I don't know what will.

I remember my reaction to the news, and the first thing I thought of was, ---"holy crap, where's the air force? what do they know, can other planes be stopped?"

It was natural/human to "freak out." If he had just dropped everything and walked out without an explanation, I would have understood. And so would have most Americans.

But he just sat there --- very abnormal reaction to the news he had just heard.

It was like he didn't know what to do, so he just fucking sat there waiting for instructions.

This was not the time to be passive.

[buycitgo]

8. yeah.......free republic

and, seriously, get serious about AWOL being discussed during the 2000 selection

get real

[NCLib23]

9. I never said it was in depth

but it was brought up.

http://www.cnn.com/2000/ALLPOLITICS/stories/05/24/bushguard.cnn/


I don't really respect Moore, since I think he is a hypocrite. He said it again in the primaries, and no one would have cared, except the media used it to bring down Clark. That's all it was for.

[Wind Dancer]

23. You might want to take a look at this!

I would suggest you do a little research if you think it acceptable for the "Commander in Chief" to sit in a classroom and read a book while our country is under attack. It's extremely important and your dismissal of its significance leaves me at a loss for words. Take a few minutes and view the actual events that morning - then tell me it's not important.

http://www.takebackthemedia.com/true911.html

[NCLib23]

27. Seen it

watched it again, and the timeline is a story. I still don't think you are going to convince the average bush voter with his sitting there.

[Wind Dancer]

32. Doesn't sound like it convinces you!

[HootieMcBoob]

26. Moore's a hypocrite?

OK NC"Lib"23 I think we all get it now :puke:

[NCLib23]

34. Right I forgot

Moore is perfect, any questioning of him is only done by republicans.

I'll go get my Progressive Guide book and re-read the chapter on Moore.

I'm glad we don't allow any disagreements in our party.

[Name removed]

10. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[nostamj]

28. he does a PHOTO OP knowing of the first hit???

even if his tiny little brain couldn't process that this was exactly the scenerio in that PDB, someone on his staff knew that it was not an accident.

they should also have known about the MULTIPLE hijackings.

there's no way he should have continued with a silly photo op at all, MUCH MUCH less *after* he knew of the SECOND strike.

and, don't believe the 5-7 minutes nonsense. he sat there much longer. that he wasn't REMOVED by the SS immediately after learning of the first strike just SMELLS...

[question everything]

37. Is this the famous photo where he holds a book upside down? n/t

[SheepyMcSheepster]

53. no it isn't.

and as funny as it is, i believe the picture you are talking about (upside down book) is a photoshop/fake.

[stickdog]

49. He sat there for 11 full minutes with the US under terrorist attack.

Then he gave a press conference there 30 minutes into a clear attack.

He was at a scheduled and pre-publicized photo 5 minutes from an airport.

He endangered all those kids' lives by not getting out of there immediately and DOING HIS FUCKING JOB.

[Eric J in MN]

7. There was one article in a Boston newspaper on AWOL in 2000.

There was one article in a Boston newspaper on AWOL in 2000.

The AWOl story wasn't widely covered in 2000.

[Cocoa]

21. "who cares" what the president was doing?

the exact moment the U.S. president becomes aware of "the event that changed everything" is available on tape, and you don't think it's odd that no news program shows that tape?

[NCLib23]

30. I've seen that tape multiple times

A lot right after 9/11

[Bridget Burke]

31. It will get lots more exposure, thanks to Moore

Aren't you looking forward to it?

I know I am!

[John_H]

38. LOL! I think he is. You reaallly want people to see it alot, right, NClib?

[Skittles]

51. he's not doing a very good job

LOL

[Wind Dancer]

40. Well do you think * acted appropriately

on 9/11? What are your views regarding that day? Do you think the 9/11 Commission is truly a non-partisan group?

You continue to bash MM yet you refuse to answer any of the questions re: *'s activities that day???? A NC liberal? I wonder!

[Skittles]

50. sure

but they led people to believe Card was telling him about the FIST PLANE slamming into the North WTC tower. NOT TRUE. He already knew about it BEFORE he entered the classroom. Michael Moore exposes the fact he is being told about the SECOND PLANE slamming into the South WTC tower- and the stupid f*** JUST SITS THERE.

[ClassWarrior]

39. Who says they "disowned" Osama?

What proof do we have of that? Only hearsay. And isn't questioning the family of the suspect one of the first things law enforcement does??

[Bridget Burke]

45. I read about the "airlift" in a New Yorker article.

Published not long after 9/11, never available online. Mostly, it was an account of Bin Ladin relatives in the USA. They were fairly Westernized. Somehow, I don't think the young woman who lived in a Manhattan loft & enjoyed the art scene was a terrorist.

However, there was a large, extended family involved, partly due to polygamy. Some of the relatives--mostly back in Saudi Arabia--had not really severed ties with Osama.

It was emphasized that the relatives shipped out of the USA were not questioned by the FBI. This is standard with relatives of a criminal (or just a suspect). And it seemed that these people might have had something to say about their more conservative relatives back home. But they didn't get the chance.

Were they shipped out of the USA to avoid a lynching (a good reason, actually) or to keep them quiet?

[John_H]

35. Absolutely Right. Which chows just how thoroughly they're up Chimp's ass

[question everything]

43. Item 3

From a March 22 WSJ story

At the Dec. 4, 2001, town-hall meeting in Orlando, Mr.
Bush said, "I was sitting outside the classroom,
waiting to go in, and I saw an airplane hit the tower
-- the TV was obviously on. And I used to fly myself,
and I said, 'Well, there's one terrible pilot.' "
Several weeks later, he said essentially the same
thing at another public event in Ontario, Calif.

Actually, no scenes of the first plane hitting the
Trade Center were broadcast on television until late
that night, when amateur video footage became
available. The TV in the room where Mr. Bush waited
wasn't even plugged in, according Ms. Rigell, the
principal. "It's just a mistaken recollection" on the
president's part, his spokesman, Mr. Bartlett, said in
an interview. "There were lots of things going on fast
at the time."

Just after 9 a.m., Mr. Bush took a seat in front of
students, most of them from a poor neighborhood. He
listened as teacher Sandra K. Daniels pointed to an
easel, and the second-graders read aloud lists of
words.

Then, White House Chief of Staff Andrew Card strode
into the classroom, leaned down and whispered in the
president's ear, "A second plane hit the second tower.
America is under attack," Mr. Card has recounted.

Both Republican and Democratic commissioners have said
they are focusing closely on what happened next -- and
whether mere minutes could have affected the outcome
on Sept. 11. The panel's investigators are looking at
questions such as the timeliness of presidential
orders about intercepting the jet that at 9:37 a.m.
plowed into the Pentagon.

In a CNBC television interview almost a year later,
Mr. Card said that after he alerted Mr. Bush, "I
pulled away from the president, and not that many
seconds later, the president excused himself from the
classroom, and we gathered in the holding room and
talked about the situation."

But uncut videotape of the classroom visit obtained
from the local cable-TV station director who shot it,
and interviews with the teacher and principal, show
that Mr. Bush remained in the classroom not for mere
seconds, but for at least seven additional minutes. He
followed along for five minutes as children read aloud
a story about a pet goat. Then he stayed for at least
another two minutes, asking the children questions and
explaining to Ms. Rigell that he would have to leave
more quickly than planned.

Mr. Bartlett confirmed in an interview that the
president stayed in the classroom for at least seven
minutes. The spokesman said that as the president's
staff was trying to learn more about the plane
crashes, there was no need to talk to Mr. Bush or pull
him away. The president didn't leave immediately after
receiving the news of the second crash from Mr. Card
because Mr. Bush's "instinct was not to frighten the
children by rushing out of the room," the spokesman
added. Mr. Bush's motorcade left the school at
approximately 9:35 a.m., 32 minutes after he entered
the classroom, according to a White House timeline and
analysis of the uncut videotape.

[Kid_A]

44. Michael Moore=Spider Jerusalem

Spider is the main character in a comic book called "Transmetropolitan". He's an "outlaw journalist" in the near future who makes it his mission to bring down the administration of a horribly corrupt president. He has numerous attempts made on his life, but he ends up putting the evil motherfucker in jail. Granted nobody has tried to kill Michael Moore yet, but just give them enough time.

[NightOwwl]

46. leader vs coward

In our fearless leader's own words "Immediately following the first attack, I implemented our government's emergency response plans." So began the first in a series of lies that has gotten progressively worse.

I'm no fan of Guliano's politics, but I felt a great deal of gratitude towards him on 9/11. He was at ground zero within minutes of the attack, comforting people and helping them get out of danger.

So you see, I don't resent Bush's actions that day because of his party affiliation. I resent him for being a lying, quivering coward who has used that day to convince people of his "strong, steady leadership" in order to win the 2004 election.

You want an example of strong, steady leadership...rewatch video of that day and you'll see some, it just doesn't happen to come from our so-called leader.

[shimmergal]

55. Any national "leader" worthy of the term would have

immediately tried to find out what was going on, for starters.

What's the point of having a C-I-C if he won't do anything at the one crucial moment of his term when immediate action is needed?

[NightOwwl]

56. He could always use the excuse...

that his puppet strings were broken. That's why he couldn't get out of his chair.