Man in jail for six years on 2 year sentence....

[YellowRubberDuckie]

This story is bizarre. The man was convicted of stealing a calculator from Wal Mart. And since this is his third strike, Texas wants blood.
<snip>
At the Supreme Court, the least significant and least noticed cases sometimes say the most about the institution and our system of justice. Dretke v. Haley, decided last month with no fanfare, is just such a case. Unfortunately, the story it tells is of an institution and a system remarkably unconcerned with the common call simply to do the right thing.

Everyone involved in Michael Wayne Haley's case - the State of Texas, which prosecuted him; the lower federal court judges who heard his case; and all the U.S. Supreme Court's Justices - recognize that he's been in jail more than six years for a crime carrying a maximum sentence of two years.

The lower federal courts ordered Haley released. But Texas, despite agreeing that Haley is serving time under an unlawful sentence, still appealed to the Supreme Court to keep Haley in jail. And the Supreme Court, rather than exonerating Haley and making permanent the temporary freedom granted him by the court of appeals, doomed him to another long round of litigation in the lower courts and the possibility of a return to jail for a crime he undoubtedly did not commit.
<end snip>
Read the rest of the story here: http://writ.news.findlaw.com/lazarus/20040610.html

Apparently the Supreme Court has a soft spot in it's heart for Texas.

Duckie

[freetobegay]

1. There is a reason for the three strikes law.

I happen to agree with it. Maybe if he had bought the calculator, he would have been able to figure out what kind of sentence he would get for stealing! Sorry I don't like any kind of thief!

[YellowRubberDuckie]

3. BUT...

In the article it says something about him obviously not committing the crime?
Duckie

[0007]

28. Perhaps 'gay to be free' didn't read the article?

[htuttle]

4. The Three Strikes law is another conservative fantasy...

...that you can dispense 'justice' by formula.

A very large number of Federal judges are against the Three Strikes law, because it removes the ability of a judge to suit the punishment to the crime -- which after all, is the whole DAMN REASON WE HAVE JUDGES! With Three Strikes, judges are reduced to the role of a debate moderator.

And as it's been pointed out, this guy appears to be innocent.

The US is already the most cruel 'developed' country on the planet. We have no safety nets, no real drug or alcohol treatment available to the poor, and most Americans would rather step over someone passed out on the sidewalk than do something to help.

The Three Strikes law, while keeping in character with the United States of Scrooge, is NOT something that helps anyone -- other than sweeping some 'problematic' people out of the sight of the beautiful minds of the upper class...

[punpirate]

6. Perhaps you could expand on your belief...

... about your support for the "three-strikes" law, especially as it relates to petty theft?

I'd be very interested to hear it.

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

30. Me, I call these over-the-top sentencing...

Punishist Porn.

There is an unmistakable feeling of PLEASURE in many people when they discuss these cases. It's creepy.

[Renew Deal]

26. I agree with you.

I am for three strikes laws. You can't leave these people on the street forever. If they know they are going away for life and they do something anyway, they don't deserve freedom.

[ieoeja]

29. Three Strikes is why I quit the NRA

While I supported and continue to support firearm rights, I was very much opposed to the Three Strikes laws which the NRA was very influential in passing. For one thing I understood what most people didn't: it could apply the first time an individual is ever arrested.

The NRA went on to prove my understanding correct when they successfully sued the state of California for not applying Three Strikes to a first time offender. During the commission of his crime, he violated three different laws which count against Three Strikes. So even though he had never been in jail before, he was already a three time loser according to the California Three Strikes law.

But even were the law written to be as people misunderstand it to be, I would oppose it. It stinks of tyranny. Furthermore, as a one time Police Chief of Charleston with a degree in sociology once stated, the vast majority of career criminals give up their criminal career sometime after turning thirty. It makes no sense keeping these people in jail for the remainder of their lives.

Also, I happen to be old enough to remember when the prison system actually made efforts at rehabilitation. Some of these efforts made huge cuts in the rates of recidivism. Most did not. Unfortunately, during the Reagan years, almost all of these programs were eliminated, the successful along with the failures. Today, you never even hear the word rehabilitation in relation to crime (except for drugs, but then the word is related to the drug addiction, not criminal activity).

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

31. The S&M crowd hijacked the justice system. See post #30. (nt)

[JayS]

33. "old enough to remember"

Man, you must be ancient! :)

I kind of remember prisons doing some rehabilitation...but the memory got partially overwritten by Neil walking on the moon.

What were those "R" reasons for sentencing? Rehabilitation, Resocialization, Revenge, Retribution. I think there was one more "R" but I forget what it is. Revenge seems to be the biggie these days anyway.

I don't blame the NRA too much for what should have been a good law if it had not gotten so twisted and mangled before it became law. It was a good first attempt at addressing some serious problems that were not being addressed but it was just too flawed to do what it aimed to do. These laws had support of both sides of the isle also.

Do you like these types of laws better?

Project Targets Gun Criminals
June 4, 2004
Reported by KPLC Staff
http://www.kplctv.com/Global/story.asp?S=1919376&nav=0nqxNfmq


You may wonder why police seem to seize so many guns-- well, getting guns used for crime off the streets has been a high priority of Lake Charles Police Chief Don Dixon since he became chief in January 2002. The special emphasis seems to have reduced local crime involving firearms.

*SNIP*

Chief Dixon says it's an initiative targeting federal prosecution of gun criminals: "If you're a convicted felon and we catch you in possession of a gun, there is no good excuse. There is no good reason. You're up to bad intent. These are the people out there who are repeat offenders, habitual offenders, and that's basically how they survive-- by committing crimes with guns. You take just one of them off the street it's going to help."

So, Dixon explains, whenever they find a gun they run a trace on it through the federal ATF . If possible, they pursue federal prosecution which Dixon says has great results: "It speeds the system up. These cases, normally, by the time the incident happens, we send it over. It usually goes before a grand jury within three or four months, we have an indictment, 95% of the time they're detained in the federal system which means they're a danger to the community-- there is no bond."

But even better perhaps, Dixon says there's been a tremendous reduction in the number of guns on the streets and in crimes involving guns: "Our reduction in gun crimes from 2003 compared to 2002--which is armed robberies with a firearm, aggravated assault with a firearm, I think is about a 30 per cent reduction."

*SNIP*





Cops to crack down on gun violations
Thursday, June 03, 2004
Cops to crack down on gun violations
By WILLIAM F. AST III / H-P Staff Writer
http://www.heraldpalladium.com/articles/2004/06/03/news/news3.txt


CASSOPOLIS -- Southwest Michigan law enforcement officials on Wednesday announced a new program that Dowagiac Police Chief Thomas Atkinson said will "send away the bad guys for a long, long time."

"The goal is to move them out of the community and away from this area," Van Buren County Sheriff Dale Gribler said. Project Safe Neighborhoods-Southwest will provide Berrien, Cass and Van Buren counties with a "gun detective" who will work full time on cases involving convicted felons with guns, according to Margaret Chiara, U.S. Attorney for the Western District of Michigan.

That detective, working with federal agencies, will send appropriate cases to the "federal system because our penalties are so much more substantial for this particular crime rather than the state system, where they are minimal," Chiara said. The detective's job will be mostly paid for by the federal government.

Felons found to be in possession of a firearm face two years in prison under Michigan law, Gribler said. The average sentence in federal court is 69 months, he said.

*SNIP*

[LittleApple81]

2. Texas: Enron:DeLay:Bush etc. = free to screw the country; Walmart

calculator = 16 1/2 years. Hmmmmmmm

[daveskilt]

5. it was a loaf of bread!!!!

crimes on truly large scales are never prosecuted because our law is limited to the rational or at least imaginable.

stealing anything up to $100 million dollars from a few people is something we can get our heads around and come up with an appropriate punishment. but what about stealing billions from everyone in the US through an illegal war? what is the right legal remedy for that?

kill a couple of people we can punish that - kill thousands and the law is at a loss (you can only execute someone once or imprison them for their natural life) genocide, illegal invasions..we have no way to cope with that.

[FlaGranny]

8. It certainly is a lot easier

to convict a single person for a small crime than a large group of people for huge crimes.

As far as the three-strikes law, I'm not totally against it, but I've always felt it should be for violent crimes, not petty theft.

[daveskilt]

9. agreed - and get rid of prison for nonviolent drug offences

I mean how does that benefit society or the individual?

[ladjf]

7. At $30,000 per year to fund one prisoner

The cost to the state is already $180,000, not including all of the legal expenses that will most likely be more than 180K. All together, the punishment for stealing a $12.00 calculator will cost the state of Texas close to a $500,000. Eventually, these kinds of numbers will have a self-remedying effect. Even Texas will be able to figure this out and rectify the stupidity, not to mention the basic unfairness.

We seem to be living in cruel times.

[punpirate]

10. Texas can't figure it out....

With what they've done to their school system, there's no expectation that either law enforcement, prosecutors or the public can do basic math....

[ladjf]

11. They really don't have to figure it out.

When the treasury is empty, they'll know they have spent too much.

Seriously, this idea of putting people in jail for long terms, with no attempts to re-rehabilitate and for minor crimes is another example of how right-wing ideology eventually eventually crumbles under the weight of it's own impracticality. Other issues such as environment,
global imperialism have the same flaw. Sooner or later, natural laws always prevail. Unfortunately, while the right-wing nuts are learning their lessons, it's causing terrible suffering for everyone else.

[punpirate]

12. All true....

And, meanwhile, Kenny Boy wonders what luxury properties he has to sell to maintain his quality of life--after screwing many, many people out of their savings.

It's the conservative way....

[ladjf]

16. The jails are primarily for poor people.

Lay will serve no time. My guess is that he "knows where the body's are". Bush, not the CIA, could risk crossing him.

[JayS]

15. "right-wing ideology"

The Three Strikes Laws are good in theory but have been so poorly structured that they are not beneficial in practice. These poorly constructed laws have unfortunately gotten support from both sides of the isle.

Some candidates even voted yes for three strikes laws if it got them the right to claim that they got their own pet law passed, even if it is useless.


Senator John Forbes Kerry voted YES.

Final passage of the 1994 crime bill, including semi-automatic assault weapon ban and hiring 100,000 new police officers.

HR 3355: The Violent Crime Control and Law Enforcement Act of 1994

Vote on passage of the conference report of the omnibus crime bill. The bill included provisions to: build more prisons; hire 100,000 new police officers; allow death sentences for more federal crimes; ban 19 semi-automatic assault weapons; and institute 'three strikes and you're out' provisions, among other components.
(Conference report adopted 61-38 on 8/25/94)

Bill Status:
Bill Number: HR 3355 - 103rd Congress (1993-94)
House Passage Vote: 11/03/93 - Outcome: Passed by Voice Vote
Senate Passage Vote: 11/19/93 - Outcome: Passed
House Conference Report Vote: 08/21/94 - Outcome: Passed
Senate Conference Report Vote: 08/25/94 - Outcome: Passed
Presidential Action: Signed on 09/13/94
Public Law Number: 103-322 108 Stat. 1796

[ladjf]

18. I'm opposed to any method of dealing with human conduct

that relies solely upon a set formula. Every situation is different. That's why there are judges, to make wise humane decisions about each case. Judges are infallible. But, compared to formula or programmed sentences, they are far more likely to do the best thing.

The same principle applies to other forms of leadership, i.e. parenting and teaching. Each situation requires unique observation and thought before deciding upon a course of action. We can't live our lives like it's a "paint by the numbers" event.

[JayS]

23. I am against most mandatory minimums but with one...

...exception and that is in the area of the brand of gun control that I favor, and I still have some reservations. In my opinion, the judges just were not doing a good enough job and too many violent offenders were back on the streets too early. And if the three strikes laws had been properly structured they would have worked well.

Here are some examples of mandatory minimums that I favor and that have been put in place here:




Project Targets Gun Criminals
June 4, 2004
Reported by KPLC Staff
http://www.kplctv.com/Global/story.asp?S=1919376&nav=0nqxNfmq


You may wonder why police seem to seize so many guns-- well, getting guns used for crime off the streets has been a high priority of Lake Charles Police Chief Don Dixon since he became chief in January 2002. The special emphasis seems to have reduced local crime involving firearms.

*SNIP*

Chief Dixon says it's an initiative targeting federal prosecution of gun criminals: "If you're a convicted felon and we catch you in possession of a gun, there is no good excuse. There is no good reason. You're up to bad intent. These are the people out there who are repeat offenders, habitual offenders, and that's basically how they survive-- by committing crimes with guns. You take just one of them off the street it's going to help."

So, Dixon explains, whenever they find a gun they run a trace on it through the federal ATF . If possible, they pursue federal prosecution which Dixon says has great results: "It speeds the system up. These cases, normally, by the time the incident happens, we send it over. It usually goes before a grand jury within three or four months, we have an indictment, 95% of the time they're detained in the federal system which means they're a danger to the community-- there is no bond."

But even better perhaps, Dixon says there's been a tremendous reduction in the number of guns on the streets and in crimes involving guns: "Our reduction in gun crimes from 2003 compared to 2002--which is armed robberies with a firearm, aggravated assault with a firearm, I think is about a 30 per cent reduction."

*SNIP*





Cops to crack down on gun violations
Thursday, June 03, 2004
Cops to crack down on gun violations
By WILLIAM F. AST III / H-P Staff Writer
http://www.heraldpalladium.com/articles/2004/06/03/news/news3.txt


CASSOPOLIS -- Southwest Michigan law enforcement officials on Wednesday announced a new program that Dowagiac Police Chief Thomas Atkinson said will "send away the bad guys for a long, long time."

"The goal is to move them out of the community and away from this area," Van Buren County Sheriff Dale Gribler said. Project Safe Neighborhoods-Southwest will provide Berrien, Cass and Van Buren counties with a "gun detective" who will work full time on cases involving convicted felons with guns, according to Margaret Chiara, U.S. Attorney for the Western District of Michigan.

That detective, working with federal agencies, will send appropriate cases to the "federal system because our penalties are so much more substantial for this particular crime rather than the state system, where they are minimal," Chiara said. The detective's job will be mostly paid for by the federal government.

Felons found to be in possession of a firearm face two years in prison under Michigan law, Gribler said. The average sentence in federal court is 69 months, he said.

*SNIP*

[ladjf]

24. Your point is good.

However, if the reason for the mandatory sentences was because the judges weren't doing a "good" job, then the better solution would have been to replace the unfair or unwise judges. After all, who ever created the legislation was in fact, being a "judge" of how the trials should turn out.

We do have some judges who aren't doing a good job and it's very difficult to get rid of them. Perhaps many, you included, have decided that the best interests of the people can best be served by "doing an end run" and having mandatory legislation. Life ain't easy, is it?

[JayS]

27. Mandatory minimums are a bit of a cop out but for now I guess...

...we need a "patch" until something better comes along. As a lifelong gun owner, I am all too aware of the seriousness of even pointing a gun at someone; unfortunately, too few judges would agree with me.

One case here, that I can't find a link to anymore, involved a Gulf War vet walking into a single story (for safety) bank, shooting into the ceiling, taking some money, and going straight to the police station to ask for a cell. He just was not handling life on the outside and clearly needed help. Fortunately, the bank president befriended him and the guy has a shot at getting treatment.

One case where I want mandatory minimums is below. This type of activity cannot be allowed to continue.



*********************
June 10, 2004, 7:59AM
Confession leads to murder charges
in dispute over tennis shoes
Copyright 2004 Houston Chronicle
http://www.chron.com/cs/CDA/ssistory.mpl/metropolitan/2620165


A 20-year-old Harris County man has been charged with murder after five people were shot late Tuesday in a fight over a 3-year-old dispute about a pair of tennis shoes, sheriff's department officials said.

*SNIP*

The gunfire, which occurred in the 6600 block of Vialinda just before 11 p.m. Tuesday, killed 19-year-old Thomas Mendoza, detectives said.

None of the five shot was directly involved in the disputed tennis shoe swap, which occurred between two girls more than three years ago. But an argument and fight about that trade led to the gunfire, detectives said.

*SNIP*

Detectives later learned a fifth person had been shot by accident and was taken to West Houston Medical Center in someone's car. That person was listed in good condition.

[JayS]

13. Texas is one of the first states in the nation to begin...

...running petty drug offenses through a medical court instead of a criminal one. Hopefully this will save jail space for truly violent offenders.

[ladjf]

14. That's a good idea. I'm glad to hear it.

The nation's jail populations are choked with many drug offenders who need medical attention rather than jail time.

[punpirate]

20. Not the first... not by a long shot.

NM has had misdemeanor fine status for marijuana, for example, for a long, long time.

You're entitled to defend the Texas penal system if you like, but they've been building prisons faster than almost any other state in the country. I drive by lots of them in my trips to Texas.... Texas has one of the most draconian penal systems in the country, and has had for a long time. I remember the `60s and `70s, when simple possession of a non-narcotic could get one thirty years....

Remember, Texas gave us Bush....

[JayS]

22. I didn't know that about NM. They seem to be ahead of the...

...curve on a lot of things lately. I'm starting to really like their Governor.

The difference in what we are doing here is that petty drug charges never go on your record. Once you get a drug charge on your record you might as well be in jail; in some ways it is the same thing.

We still have some draconian items in our penal codes but it has gotten a lot better on some issues. The prison system will never quit expanding though, even with the reduced load of incarceration for rather ridiculous things. There is just too much money in prisons for it to ever quit growing.

Yes, Texas gave the world Bush, but we had to send him somewhere. :)

[seabeyond]

17. my brother is sitting in prison in calif

and what i saw in the court system, was a lesson and site to what is happening. people are saying timely trial. no way. public att, ya right, lol. i dont excuse him, by any means. but it has been a reality check for me, sittin in comfort. i dont so readily dismiss someone who says the court syustem is f*ed. cause it is

yup. we want to so punish, we must exact revenge. and i hear the same on the left. this court system is a creation of extremism on both sides

[ladjf]

19. I suspect that there some philosophical connection

between the fact that about 65% of Americans favor capital punishment and the prisoner torture scandals in Iraq. We are turning into a very mean Nation. What's amazing is the so many of the so called good Christians are definitely on the side of vengeance rather than forgiveness and love. But, they aren't alone in this.

[seabeyond]

21. just cant be one sided on this issue. those liberals, shit execution

for smoking. line em up, take em down. i look at the commercial from my liberal pals, oooooosh the hate they throw my way

yes, we have become a mean nation and i will be the first to say, and you my christian man dare to say to me............i will also say to my most liberal buddy, judge me not lest......

yup. my 9 year old and i talk about it a lot. he sees it in so many ids and he is in such a quandry so i work this issue thru my children, so he can embrace the mean without becoming. was telling me yesterday, just doesnt feel good to call someone a name, regardless of meanness, and he is right, i never got into hurting others myself and at 42 more and more i see it is not only necessary, but non productive further, destructive. so i dont do. and i am glad it is easy for my 9 year old not to do, youngest child tho, a bit of issue. we work on that also

[ladjf]

25. Personally, nor any other way, I know of no political

liberals who favor capital punishment.

In my opinion, any governing institution that feels that it has the right/duty to kill people for what they've done, hasn't thought it through. It's not a matter of being kind to the criminal, it's the example it sets, that it's permissible to kill a person.

[THUNDER HANDS]

32. might as well just make theft a capital offense

And give the chair to anyone who's on their third strike. What's the point anyway?

This is utter madness!