anybody watching Nightline? Is the nedia finally turning against W

[napi21]

Some pretty serious stuff here! WH and senior officials check to see just how far they can go "legally" and not call it tortoure. Sone times it went too far, and prisoners died!

[proud patriot]

1. Doesn't come on until later here

:hi:

[buycitgo]

2. watch it.......I only saw part, but what I saw was devastating

from the other nightline link, I said this, about Lindsay Graham's extraordinary appearance:

tell me Lindsay Graham hadn't just been CRYING, or was about to!!!!!


my guess is that he HAD been!!!! EDIT very red, rheumy about the eyes.....really looked to have been crying, or holding back

he almost got it right, til he started spouting that jingoist crap about the only thing we should be doing is striving to be a great nation, or something like that.

how bout striving to be a COMPASSIONATE, non-imperialist, non-FASCIST nation, before we even BEGIN to THINK about being a great nation

got to give him credit for being honest, though

how ya feel about being one of the VERY FEW ASSHOLES how allowed this to GET this far, huh?

remember that little impeachment thing, which you pushed so hard?

think that might have been the impetus for attacking Gore so viciously, AND, more importantly, smearing Clinton to the point where Gore was afraid to let him campaign the way he should have?

just WAIT til WJC is out on the, uh, stump THIS TIME, fool! Kerry will be swinging from his coattails from now on, if he has any brains at all.


there.....feel better. but, again....good for you, Lindsay. at least you have a few honest bones in your body. hurts bad to see the real truth, though, DOESN't IT?????

[Eloriel]

5. I thought Graham was fabulous -- and I won't even fault him

for what you consider "jingoist crap."

For a Republican, on this issue he's -- remarkable. Astounding. He himself is a Reserve JAG officer, so this is very familiar territory for him, and he's deporting himself admirably, IMO. There may not be a single thing int he world otherwise that I'd praise him for, but I'll praise him to high heavens on this. I was so impressed after seeing him in one of those hearings that I called his office to praise him. Really.

[buycitgo]

9. that would be "comporting himself"......though lots of his pals should be

deported to Abu Ghraib for a long vaca......

anyway, I was thinking the same thing, until, as I typed, I realized just how CULPABLE he is for this junta being here in the first place.

I agree that, for a pug, he showed remarkable candor, and I think I expressed that several times.

I see that I'm not a very forgiving person when it comes to the THEFT of what was left of our democracy

and it began with the likes of him, Henry Hyde, David Bossie (who was being interviewed on some garbage show tonight!!!!!!), freaking Asa Hutchinson, Newt, Livingstone, Jeff Gerth, Jean Lewis, Susan Schmidt, her handless accomplice Weiskopf (how's THAT for compassion)

may they all reap the karmic rewards for what they've wrought

sorry, but that's the way I feel

time for an ice-cream koan....maybe I'll achieve a lighter state

[elf]

10. Yes I think he was very good and very much ashamed

and he showed it by saying (paraph.) When it is possible, that there will be something good coming out of this (torture etc), it will be that we always though we are the greatest nation, but the truth is, we are fare away from this.
He said that very sad his had bowed down.

[2Design]

11. me too....when asked if he thought it was better if the pictures

had not come out......he hesitated.....thought....and then said NO

it was good they came out.....now that is mouthful for a repub....

this is the way politician used to be.....upholding the law...not there job.....or this being stuck to a party.....even when the others are vile......

This is what our founding fathers had in mind for a politician...one who worked for the truth and upheld our constitution....

[buycitgo]

14. well said, but when is going to CRY for what he did six years ago?

as bad as what's happening over there, what they did HERE, to our DEMOCRACY, was worse, cause, without that, Iraq would NEVER have happened; most likely 9/11, either

think about that

[2Design]

23. Tell me about six years ago......please .....eom

[buycitgo]

24. you're not serious, are you?

seriously

[2Design]

31. yes I am serious... I don't know the details....

[2Design]

32. I continue to learn from these boards.....so any information

you can offer up would be great.....because .... I am clueless on Graham....

been too wrapped up in survival for the last 12 years to totally pay attention.....so I am getting educated.....

[buycitgo]

33. sorry, Ahole attack, there

Graham was one of the chief impeachment movers

the managers, they called them

they were, in effect, the prosecutors of the case in the Senate against Clinton

he was very vocal in his abashedness, pertaining to WJC's scandalous behavior, and his supposed lying to congress (it's not the sex; it's the LYING...we must follow the RULE OF LAW, saints preserve us!)

he seemed very smarmy and insincere to me at the time

maybe I was wrong about that; he must be easily scandalized....hard to feature in someone who's made it as far as he has in the slimy, filthy world of republican politics

[2Design]

37. I never understood the clinton bs

Everyone knew he cheated on his wife before his presidency.... so it seemed to me all they tried to do is force him into a lie...and then used that against him.... I don't know that I knew who the players were....

it just seemed like a giant waste of money for infidelity....and the lying was because they forced the lie....so to me it was bulls**t.

but interesting that he was lead....so that explains his reaction tonight.....this is obviously much bigger and a felony we are looking at here....and lots of lying.....and his not wanting to believe....

this is what happens in families of alcoholics...they are in denial for a long time.....and bush is an addict and a dry drunk...so his behavior and actions.....are all crazy making to try to distract everyone from the real problem....which is his addictive behavior...and it seems his drug of choice is power at this time....and it is manifesting ....in all areas of his life....

So Graham maybe the anal retintive type who believes in the letter of the law...and he couldn't see the forest because of the trees with Clinton....only that clinton lied.....but not that he was forced into lying.....by a bunch of adulters of the GOP party... they all had to resign or leave or admit they were all having affairs...

So it may be to our favor that Graham is on this panel.....he will follow the letter of the law....in spite of his party....and what they say about him..... so we may actually see felony charges coming here...... on this and many other situations happening at the WH...

Once someone starts to come out of denial and SEE, they see it all. That is the look he had. That overwhelming, look of , this is the truth, now what.

Thanks for telling me. Sorry for going on so long...but I am a analytical person.....

[buycitgo]

41. not at all.....you made some excellent points

thing is, though, I don't trust ANYthing ANY of them ever do, nor do I trust their motives

the Clinton thing goes back a LONG time, before he was even governor, if you want to believe Harry Thomasen, who directed the THOTP movie, based on Lyons/Conason's book, and partly on Fools for Scandal, I spose

it's way worse than you thought, and way crazier, cause Clinton turned out to be a moderate repiglikkklan, and did a better job of ending welfare than they could have, just as Nixon went to China, where a dem never could've

see, that's the thing, and it's played out every day, both here, in Iraq, and all over the world: these maniacs are REALLY, actually insane

clinically....they have no concept of reality, of the possible fallibility of their worldview. they believe with messianic certainty in the righteousness of their cause; therefor it doesn't matter what lies they tell, what people DIE, in furtherance of their concept of the greater good

zealots are the most dangerous thread to society.....always have been, always will be

that's who we're dealing with.......zealots, who lie, steal, and KILL without compunction.......Rumsfeld, or was it Wolfowitz ADMITTED that soldiers are just expendable chesspieces--not in those words, but in ones just as demented

oh, good......Cheney's on TV

[Kanary]

25. I'm watching now, and I will call him, too!

And the Denver Post reporter!! He gets a call and email! Awful, terrible story, but I'm sooo glad that he was on the story!

We *really* need to let them all know we appreciate what they're doing to bring this to light..... you can be sure the Reich Wing is bombarding them with hate messages!

Kanary

[buycitgo]

28. that is a good point; he should have some positive reinforcement

from the other side

BUT, it should be leavened

he should be made aware that we will NEVER forget his role in befouling the process for purely political gain

ask him to compare the magnitude of the harm HIS party has done, to that of the Clinton admin, and how he feels about his role in that fiasco

[Kanary]

39. Yes, I'll add that in. Since he was visibly shaken, maybe he'll make the

connection between his past actions, and having to eat crow now.

It's sooo very sad what it has taken us all to get to the place where we'll ready to be honest, and also ready to take action.

Those are the calls for tomorrow..........

Thanks for all the info!

Kanary

[tom_paine]

34. "Kerry will be swinging from his coattails..."

WHERE IS THIS FABLED SWINGING?!?

I WANT TO SEE SOME OF IT!

[buycitgo]

35. DON'T!!!!! you're right, but I think it starts during the book tour

don't you?

if it doesn't, I'm going to get as suspicious as I was/am about their not using some of that money to counterract the SIXTY MILLION bucks' worth of negativity that has already MOLDED the public's conception of Kerry as a flipflopping fabricator....so far the emphasis is on the flipflops, but give them time

WJC should be able to raise boatloads of money, despite the attacks he'll engender

but that's FINE!!!!! that means less attention paid to smearing Kerry

and it's REALLY TOO BAD they didn't keep the nomination process going longer......just think how horrible recent events would have played for the junta, had they more than one person to target, while trying to react at the same time to events on the ground

got a time machine?

[tom_paine]

36. frontloading the primaries: we walk into a Bushevik Left Cross again

Still, I'm waiting to see it.

[Eloriel]

3. I watched it. i suppose I should be happy.

But it's been one tough night -- from an LBN story that police and military will be getting a wonderful new electrical stun gun to disable whole crowds, to Bill Moyers' stunning (and VERY depressing) speech about what's happening to us all (really is must read, btw), to the FERC decision that CA has to repay Enron and others $240 MILLION, to the Nightline show -- whew! just about more than I can bear. In one day, anyway.

Koppel said they would be starting the discussion about the boundaries of torture tomorrow.

[LittleApple81]

4. Bill Moyers speech? Where? a link? I must have missed it. Thanks.n/t

[Pobeka]

15. Link

http://www.commondreams.org/cgi-bin/print.cgi?file=/views04/0616-09.htm

[DieboldMustDie]

17. Not certain, but I think this might be what Eloriel is refering to.

http://www.commondreams.org/views04/0616-09.htm

[LittleApple81]

18. Thanks to both of you for the link. n/t

[buycitgo]

6. don't forget the fresh frozen french fries

and, isn't that Enron story SOMETHING????

thank god we can rely on the courts for redress, huh?

didn't they do a great job on the Under God thing?

and can't you just not wait to see what they do about the Cheney papers?

Quack!

[2Design]

12. enron never paid taxes .....they receive upmteen amount of

money from the government in subsidies....none if belongs to them..it belongs to them....

[napi21]

7. Anybody know how many people usually watch Nightline?

I have no idea, and don't know how to find out. I have to believe anybody who was "on the fence" or independent should be swayed by this stuff!

[LittleApple81]

8. This is terrible...and so so so so so so horrible... please wake me up!

this must be a nightmare.

[2Design]

13. It is an ABC station....on right after the news in the East....at 11:30pm

go to abc.com

[buycitgo]

16. you should record this....for Graham, if nothing else

see if you think he was crying

[2Design]

19. THis was good....but will anything come of it more than the news

Lots of people....saying lots of truth...except the bushCo.....

Linsay Graham was very honest......it seemed it was very hard...to finally accept...that the pictures....were how this finally came out and to the surface for the american people to judge.....

he said it was good the pictures came out....when questioned...if it would have been better if they had not......he said NO ...No it was good they came out....

I read into that...that he realized this would not have come to the surfaced without them.....

hard to realized that your own government is really doing this... we all have known....they have been in denial....they are in shock...but at least he is accepting it and moving forward....it is like a HUGE death.....the death of a nation as we want to believe it is.....a great nation....one with compassion and a CONSTITUTION.... that we uphold.....

[LittleApple81]

20. In Koppel's final statement, he says that torture might be acceptable

in cases where lives are at stake???? Apparently torture does not produce true statements. But I am going to turn the program on tomorrow, when he plans to continue the discussion.

[maggrwaggr]

21. Hm, well, if the United States did it, it just might be okay!!

After all, we never do anything wrong, right? We're the United States, we can do no wrong!

[buycitgo]

22. missed that, and Koppel is NOT reliable

one of his BEST friends is fricking KISSINGER!

his shows are up and down...they SMEARED Richard Clarke the week he testified.....then they HIRED him as a consultant

Nightline is like tweety.....you never know what to expect

[Kanary]

26. Transcript?

I wasn't able to record it, and would like to review it to get names write for writing letters, and to share with friends.

Has anyone seen a link to a transcript of this one?

I could kick myself I didn't record.........

:kick:

Kanary

[mountainvue]

27. Koppel's

been on Bushco's ass for a while now.

[buycitgo]

29. not unrelievedly so

Chris Bury is more likely to nail the junta than Koppel

harder hitting; less punches pulled

[ItsThePeopleStupid]

30. Lindsey Graham

I haven't liked anything he's done or said before this, and I don't expect to like what he does in the future, but on this -- the torture scandal -- he's absolutely great. I guess he believes in something besides party politics after all.

None of the mainstream media is carrying this story, except Nightline, and this is so big...as John Donvan said (he seemed to be getting sort of emotional at one point too) torture is a capital crime. Do you realize what that means? All signs point to Bush* putting out an order saying it's okay to torture people....

[Hammie]

38. You mean

someone actually watches that show?

[Kanary]

40. For those who recorded it.....

Could you please look at it again, and write down the name of the Denver Post reporter?

I really want to call and commend him tomorrow!

I'd really appreciate any help on this I can get!

TIA :hi:

Kanary