Abu Ghraib--help us apologize

[DrBB]

The latest horrific pictures are out. A lot of us feel that all-too familiar helpless outrage feeling. I'm told by reliable sources that military prosecutors are exceedingly aggressive in pursuing cases of this kind and not afraid to take it as far as it goes, especially insofar as this looks like something fostered by civilian politicians that has tarnished (not a strong enough word) the image of the military as a whole. I hope that's true, but it remains to be seen. Not much I can do about it, one way or the other.

But a group I belong to is trying to do one small thing, which is to ask people to sign a document offering our deepest apologies to the Iraqi people. Like most of us, I feel like the only truly adequate apology will be for the Iraqis to see W, Rummy and Cheney in handcuffs before a war crimes tribunal. By comparison, this apology is a little thing to offer, but it's something. Small actions accumulate, and if small actions are all we have, we should take them.

We have about 540 signatures so far, and would wish there to be many more if we can just get word out to people.

So please consider signing this apology.

(B.t.w. you'll notice we are a religious group, but we hope this action will feel open to most people who are sickened by what has been done in the name of the United States.)

[drthais]

1. maybe it shouldn't matter

but I do not feel comfortable
signing this particular document
it states that "we as Christians and/or Americans

and I truly feel that putting a religious face on such an apology
is not appropriate

were it a document from Americans
and did not state in the opening the word 'Christian'
I would sign it in a heartbeat

[DrBB]

3. Yup--some people feel that way

There was some discussion of this, and it was felt that it wouldn't be true to the nature of this particular group to leave that out. And we also feel that with self-professed "Christians" like Boykin and Walker being so involved in this thing that we do not want to cede them ownership of the term. In fact, precisely because of that involvement some of us DO want to apologize AS Christians. So we tried to phrase it inclusively rather than exclusively. But I understand that in present circumstances there are people who in good conscience don't feel comfortable with that association at all.

[Pastiche423]

11. I agree

I won't not sign it, as I am not a christian. Furthermore, IMHO, it incites the religiosity of whistle ass' crusade.

[Martin Eden]

2. Best way to apologize

besides putting Rummy and Cheney in handcuffs is to dump Bush and repudiate his policies, letting the world know the American people are holding this administration accountable for crimes committed in our names.

[SlingBlade]

4. Exactly

The world will judge us on THIS election, Words don't mean shit, They have seen plenty of words the last 3 1/2 years.
We need to throw these fuckers to the dogs of history where they belong.

Fuck em.

[indigobusiness]

16. Hey kiloman, welcome to DU...

...don't Bogart that kilo.

[Walt Starr]

5. I'm a Pagan, and I signed it

Thanks for the link.

[DrBB]

9. Thanks Walt

The whole thing feels a little bit like that tiny umbrella Coyote pops out when the mountain-sized boulder is coming down on his head. There just isn't an adequate response to this ready to hand. Only thing that really feels adequate to me--impeachment and criminal prosecution--is not in my power to bring about. Other than writing LTEs, communicating with pundits and representatives. And stuff like this. It's not enough, nobody's fooling themselves. But it's something.

[bluedog]

6. why should the people against

this invasion apologize? We did want this.We didn't authorize the torture. the "shock and Awe" the billions spent.We did give the lives of over 800 men and women....

No by God, I do not personally owe Iraq anything..Want an apology?? Plead with bush and his gang of war criminals.....vote these so called representatives out of office in the house and senate.......

Better yet.send your republican friends a thank-you card for all the hell they let loose on the world since installing bush!!
:grr:

[DrBB]

8. How to communicate opposition to what is done in your name?

The only way is to continue to say it. Will they hear it? Some, a few. I agree--they'll hear it better if we decisively kick these corrupt scum out in November, and better still if some or all of em go out in handcuffs before that. But this enormity calls for some response, and we're trying what we can.

"Anger" doesn't remotely suffice for what I feel for this administration, these people, and what they've done to my country. But it is my country too. Just trying to say that, whatever way we can.

[slackmaster]

7. I think the few known whistle-blowers should be lionized

Some GIs protested prison abuse, in vain

Superiors did little to curb mistreatment, records show

WASHINGTON – At least five soldiers objected last fall to abuses they saw at Abu Ghraib prison near Baghdad. One demanded to be reassigned, saying the behavior he witnessed there "made me sick to my stomach."

Up the chain of command, the noncommissioned officers who heard such complaints did little to stop the mistreatment, according to Army records obtained by The Associated Press.

One of those same NCOs, Staff Sgt. Ivan "Chip" Frederick, is accused of stomping on prisoners' toes and punching another prisoner so hard in the chest that he remarked, "I think I might have put him in cardiac arrest." Frederick is among six soldiers facing courts-martial. Another soldier pleaded guilty last month.

The military's full-blown investigation into beatings and humiliations at Abu Ghraib began in January, after one soldier wrote an anonymous letter to superior officers about troubling photographs. That soldier, Spc. Joe Darby, later came forward to talk to Army investigators and eventually became known as the whistle-blower who uncovered the scandal....

For full article please see http://www.signonsandiego.com/uniontrib/20040612/news_1n12abuses.html

[indigobusiness]

10. A travesty. ... from Republican press.com's bbs.

Despite Sen. Biden's fang baring assertion that the reason we have prohibition of torture is the selfishly motivated desire to protect ourselves from torture by "them".... the REAL reason we have prohibitions such as this is that civilizations are built on basic standards of decency that are upheld by a decent citizenry. When these standards become standards of convenience, or are quibbled about, the civilization is debased and has degenerated into a travesty, a sham and a mockery...a traveshamockery.

[Martin Eden]

14. Now you're making words up.

LOL

Personally, I like to paraphrase Frorrest Gump when referring to Abu Ghraib:

America is as America does.

Our national character is the sum of our deeds, and the degenerate uncivilized behavior exhibited in those photographs is not an aberration. It is the natural consequence of the underside of our culture and the policies implemented by our government and military leaders.

And though many of us vehemently oppose those leaders, we are all part of the same nation and share the blame -- at least in the eyes of the world.

So it is not inappropriate for any of us to apologize, but actions speak much louder than words. Only regime change at home can begin to redeem our nation's moral authority.

[indigobusiness]

15. Agreed...It goes to our unmasked soul.

Our character was tested and we failed, as a nation.

These atrocities speak to something deep within us as a people.

I, for one, am grateful these images weren't swept under the rug, like untold atrocities in the past. Not for political reasons, but because to overcome the forces at work that spawn these actions, we must face the monster within.

We can't continue running on empty, while telling ourselves what a great Country we are.

[Martin Eden]

19. That's exactly the point I try to make

-- that atrocities will continue to be committed in our names until we can take an honest and unflattering look at ourselves. When something is broken it will never get fixed if you deny it's broken.

Too many Americans respond to criticism of Abu Ghraib by pointing to atrocities committed by Saddam Hussein or al Qaeda, as if crimes committed by others abslove us of our own. Then they accuse us of moral relativism, even though they are the ones weighing one set of atrocities against another.

We are responsible for our own actions, and if we refuse to examine ourselves or those who act in our names, then we are irresponsible.

Demands for honest assessment and transparency -- which are supposed to be hallmarks of freedom and democracy -- are met with indignation and accusations of disloyalty.

The biggest flag-wavers are often the ones who are undermining what are supposed to be true American values.

[indigobusiness]

21. yes...absolutely.

finger pointing gets us nowhere...

[Astarho]

12. kick

[wellstone_democrat]

13. Nice to see my denomination stepping up ---somewhere...

I can tell you that my diocese is so consumed by their hysteria over the ordination of a "gay bishop!!!" (they say it in quotes I swear) that they don't have time for Christian activities like this...Oh, and my parish overwhelmingly supports "the President!" and any damn thing he wants to do

Nice to see Episcopalians acting like...well, Episcopalians!

Thanks, I just sent a message to my entire addressbook and signed it myself.

[DrBB]

17. Welcome to the Anglican Undergound

Well, not really. But thanks for spreading it around.

[wellstone_democrat]

happy to do it

Its like a little piece of "home" both in terms of religion and geography , but especially in the sense of social responsibility. Where I am now civic pride seems to be limited to lawn mtce, honk if you love Jesus stickers and flags, flags, and more flags

Some sense of a wider world and a kinder Christianity is refreshing.

[wellstone_democrat]

20. happy to do it

Its like a little piece of "home" both in terms of religion and geography , but especially in the sense of social responsibility. Where I am now civic pride seems to be limited to lawn mtce, honk if you love Jesus stickers and flags, flags, and more flags

Some sense of a wider world and a kinder Christianity is refreshing.

[seabeyond]

18. i signed

and i like the forrest gump quote, wink

not a part of any religion myself. more interested in getting as many names in apology as we can, whatever group it may be and bringing an unity for both christian or/and american alike, instead of a decisiveness or exclusion

[DrBB]

22. Thanks, seabeyond, that's very much what we had in mind

Glad to see you understood it that way. And I like your moniker, b.t.w.