I have nothing against Black people, but tell me why

[roughsatori]

I have to hear about them all the time? I don't hear about Whites all the time. It's one thing to fight for rights - another to make a joke of your fight to the rest of the world.

The straight white world looks upon the black world mostly with disinterest. The only time is paid attention is when something way out of the center is said - black marriage. I believe that anyone should marry anyone else - it's all superficial crap, but tell me why it should be made into a law that Black people should be able to marry?
(SARCASM OFF) Explanation:

I took another person's post and changed the words gay to black, and "hetero" to "white." No other word was changed.

Here is the original post:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=105&topic_id=93719

Ironic, that if I seriously posted this I would get my topic deleted. But one about Gays is left open. I am sick and tired of listening to people debate what rights I should be permitted.

[sleepystudent]

1. OK...

I just have to say that I am black and gay before I respond to this. First off, you said "I am sick and tired of listening to people debate what rights I should be permitted" Which I sort of understand-it can hurt personally. But.."tired of listening to people debate?" So people don't have the right to debate when it comes to what matters to you? It seems that debate is a cornerstone of what little democracy we have left and debate should be encouraged.

And I am getting totally sick of gay rights organizations just reflexively using "black people" as a hypothetical straw man to argue for their rights when there is so much racism and segregation in the gay community. It seems that the gay powers that be(which are mostly white) only see fit to acknowledge the existence of people of color or hitch themselves to the minority wagon only when they can benefit from it-otherwise, they couldn't be bothered.

Finally, on the subject of gay marriage-marriage is a totally bourguoeis(sp?) institution and I am not interested in assimilation. If the general thrust of the "gay marriage" argument was to examine the institution and just get the financial and legal benefits of marriage, then that would be cool, but for many gay people, at least the ones that seem to be all over the media, it seems that they have the suburban house with picket fence, the high paying job, etc, and just need this last one thing to feel "normal"(whatever that means) Or they want to get married in order to declare their love-as if living with someone for years isn't a major declaration in itself.

And also, I am scared that this really will fall into the right-wing's hands. As far as I am concerned, there are more important issues in the nation and in the world and if the controversy over gay marriage is going to tilt the presidential election to Bush again( and I think it could galvanize fundies), that scares me more than not getting to walk down the aisle. I would be perfectly willing to shelve this in order to just get this man out of office.

[Devlzown]

3. I agree.

I don't think that gay marriage is important enough to risk the candidacy of someone who has a good shot at defeating Bush. I'm gay, and I think that the Supreme Court decision was more about privacy issues than a judicial sanction of gay marriage. If a gay person wants to give power of attorney to his or her lover, there are legal papers that can be drawn up for that. Wills are another way of establishing a legal as well as a personal partnership. A lot of gay activists want to "legitimize" their relationships by forcing others to accept them. I think that is selfish and unproductive.

[Bundbuster]

4. Sleepystudent - for a 13-poster you're very profound!

I'm a gay White man who happens to be attracted to Black men. After coming out and experiencing America's homophobia, I was much more appalled that gay white men could have any room left in their hearts and souls for racial discrimination. For those straight members who may not know, racism within the gay community equals - and maybe exceeds - that of the straight world. Most non-interracial white gays would not realize the extent of it. Yes, when I hear some gay activists "reflexively using 'Black people' as a hypothetical strawman to argue for their rights...", never acknowledging the rampant racism of gays themselves, it cuts me to the core. I've been called, usually behind my back, a "nigger lover", "dinge queen", "zebra", "oreo"; one gay drunk actually said to me "Why do you waste yourself on niggers?" My fist was in his mouth before the N-word was complete, the only time in my life that I've been enraged to physical violence. Seems racism doesn't even wake up those who have felt the sting of oppression themselves.

I also agree totally with your views on gay marriage - if we can gain all legal & financial equal rights, why risk a political reaction by the reich wingers which could result in further repuke-fascist rule? Is a marriage certificate worth having everyone's lives permanently demeaned by ongoing PNAC control?

Thanks for the wake-up call, Sleepystudent.

[Sapphocrat]

2. roughsatori...

Before this one gets locked...

I couldn't agree with you more. In fact, the more I read you, the more I realize I'm in agreement with you 99% of the time. (Hey, I have to leave some leeway.)

I am so utterly stunned by... No, wait -- let me re-think this. Ah, I know what it is: After reading the other thread, I am utterly amazed I have so much as a shred of optimism left.

I'm so angry right now at the oh-so-subtle "I don't hate gays, BUT..." crap and "I'm gay, BUT..." song and dance, I can't even see straight. Pun intended.

Good luck with your first reply on this thread. I wouldn't touch it with a ten-foot pole.

Some people will never get it -- or get the gist of your post.

I get both.

[sleepystudent]

5. just say what you mean...

I know I did.

I'm so angry right now at the oh-so-subtle "I don't hate gays, BUT..." crap and "I'm gay, BUT..." song and dance, I can't even see straight. Pun intended.

And what did you mean by that? "Song and dance?" Please be more specific and don't just say it and run off. I think it just a lazy reaction to someone who doesn't have the same priorities as you do. Sorry about not seeing things the way you do. Gays are not a monolithic interest group and I know plenty of gay people besides myself who are sincerely conflicted about this issue and have reservations about pursuing it AT THIS TIME. If you really think that marriage is the end all, be-all for gay rights, then by all means, hang out with Andrew Sullivan-he agrees with you. I think I am sufficently engaged with the real world to realize that there are more important issues in the nation right now and even in the gay community in my opinion.

[LoverOfLiberty]

6. So says you

think I am sufficently engaged with the real world to realize that there are more important issues in the nation right now and even in the gay community in my opinion.

There are some of us who are in relationships and are raising children that are being hurt by the inequities of denying us the same fundamental rights as heterosexual couples. Me and my family strongly disagree with your statement; there is no more important issue to us than the legal protections that marriage will bring.

The time to address this inequality is here and it is not going to go away no matter how much we are afraid that it is going to hurt us politically.

By the way, I agree with you about racism amongst gays. Revolting.

[Spentastic]

7. Well I'm going to be in trouble here!

I'm not gay ;-) . But I absolutely believe in equality for all.

"legal protections that marriage will bring."

Could that not be acheived with civil unions or whatever? Is using "marriage" just going to give those the right wing a stick to bash you with?

I'm straight and if I ever find someone I love enough to do it I certainly don't want my partnership sanctioned by the church. Recognition in law is enough for me. In fact woldn't it be superb if a new partnership contract replaced marriage as the prime means of committment?

[LoverOfLiberty]

8. No trouble from me

Call it Chicken Soup if you like, just so it tastes like marriage.

[Spentastic]

9. Well I'm all for it.

The sooner the better.